it's reasonable to expect that if the number of MJ smokers increased exponentially
What makes you think the number of smokers would go up that much? Weed is so readily available right now, I don't know of anyone who wants to smoke but can't get any.
Saracenus was NOT saying: "we should legalize MJ b/c hemp is the wonder plant."
What he was saying is that industrial uses of hemp might negatively impact the availability/supply of hemp for recreational use, thus driving up the cost of marijuana, similar to how ethanol has driven up the cost of corn. That's speculative logic but it's not bullshit logic IF hemp took off as an industrial product.
To me, the weakness in the argument is that if hemp became a legal, profitable crop with MULTIPLE uses, you'd likely see more farmers changing over to growing and harvesting it, thus increasing supply.
Moreover, you will ALWAYS have marijuana specialists cultivating their own crop for sale and if MJ was decriminalized or legalized, I would only expect to see the number of - shall we say, artisan growers? - increase, also upping the supply.
industrial hemp has nothing to do with sensimilla. why would industrial use of hemp have anything to do with female buds you buy to smoke to get high? this isn't like corn/ethanol at all.
i myself dont really see where duke's anger towards 'hemp' comes from. it just so happens if the plant was legal you could also use the 'hemp' for all kinds of things. yes i realize people mostly just want to get high but why be angry about that angle?
But as matter of policy, I've looked at the pros and cons of decrim and legalization and I'm certainly swayed by the idea that anything is better than what we're doing now.
ugh i hate to be the 'everything is better while high" smoker (a la john stewart in half baked..) but you should really smoke a little something something before zoning out for hours with some records sometime.....
Good grief. I am not some hemp wearing hippy talkin' bout the awesome powers of the herb. I was talking about the supply and demand curve of a commodity that has more uses than smoking it.
It could very well be that growin' buds is more profitable than industrial hemp but it also could be the other way around.
I am in the middle of my Managerial Accounting class and all we do is assess costs all day long and if there is anything I have learned is once MJ is legal (and probably before it is) some Cost Accounting Gnome will do the math and figure out where the money is.
Considering that buds can be grown at home and there would be tremendous competition from other small growers the margins on such a market would be small, very small. When profit margins are small its the scale of the operation that makes the millions. I will bet the larger scale of the industrial side of the cannabis equation would be a better bet over the long haul as a business model.
The only place I have ever been where alcohol prohibition was in affect, the Alaskan Yukon, you could see how limiting supply affected the street value. Prices for a fifth were astronomical; $40 for "cheap" Canadian whiskey in 1988. I imagine that legalization of pot would increase the pot supply dramatically and drive down prices accordingly.
The only place I have ever been where alcohol prohibition was in affect, the Alaskan Yukon, you could see how limiting supply affected the street value. Prices for a fifth were astronomical; $40 for "cheap" Canadian whiskey in 1988. I imagine that legalization of pot would increase the pot supply dramatically and drive down prices accordingly.
alcohol was prohibited in Alaska in the late 80s?!?!?
b/w
i don't know why so many people here think that small growers would make such a noticeable impact on the mj economy if it were legalized. are there ANY other natural products for which even the total sum of private growers represent a significant player in the market? i can't think of any...home gardeners, home brewers etc are barely a blip on the radar in their industries. if there's a good reason to believe this would be different in the mj economy i'm all ears, but particularly given the difficulty of properly cultivating your own weed (at least as compared to anything from having an orange tree in the backyard to brewing your own lagers) i just don't see it.
alcohol was prohibited in Alaska in the late 80s?!?!?
Wu is referring to our summer in Bethel, AK working on a Salmon processing barge. Bethel was a native town that banned alcohol. Thus, the price of a 5th of Jack was insane and if you wanted beer you had to have it flown in (provided you were not a Yupic Eskimo).
I will say payday for the native fisherman was "interesting" because the volatile cocktail of booze, money and guns. It made me glad our barge was a converted WWII LST and basically my sleeping quarters where armored up. There is nothing more sad than seeing a pair of Eskimo's drunk off their asses, waving their handguns around while stumbling about.
Ironically, the trustifarians that we worked with had no problem getting weed.
alcohol was prohibited in Alaska in the late 80s?!?!?
Wu is referring to our summer in Bethel, AK working on a Salmon processing barge. Bethel was a native town that banned alcohol. Thus, the price of a 5th of Jack was insane and if you wanted beer you had to have it flown in (provided you were not a Yupic Eskimo).
I will say payday for the native fisherman was "interesting" because the volatile cocktail of booze, money and guns. It made me glad our barge was a converted WWII LST and basically my sleeping quarters where armored up. There is nothing more sad than seeing a pair of Eskimo's drunk off their asses, waving their handguns around while stumbling about.
Ironically, the trustifarians that we worked with had no problem getting weed.
I will say that those trustifarians were pretty good at ping pong. Remember when I lost the motor off the skiff? That was funny. And F*ck that Swedish cook who was a Nazi, like an actually Nazi. Alaska is crazy.
b/w
All due respect, by my brother doesn't have the story totally straight. In the Yukon it was illegal (for anyone) to distribute but not to possess. I was told that in the winter, when the supply planes couldn't fly in, Aqua Velva ran low at the trading post. I repeat Alaska is crazy.
I just turn off when I hear "hemp." It always seems such a tangent to me, all the other uses.
That other uses for the plant could eat up the smokable supply never crossed my drunk mind...is that what Saracenus is saying? That's a puzzler...
I can't imagine there'll be any shortage of smokables if it's decriminalized, though. I just hope it happens. I'm sick of hearing about pot busts. Such a waste of time and money.
I do smoke pot about once every year or so. It's insane--how do you do that every day all day?
I have a tshirt that has no dyes and shit on it, I think it may be hemp.
waitaminute I'll bet a forty sack that there's no other application of marijuana that will possibly make the skrills that smoke-type can demand. no way. You think?
I think the plant should be decriminalized. I think adults should be able to grow/possess/smoke it, and that we should quit locking people up for it. How anyone could disagree--I have no idea.
I'm three beers deep right now. I can't go to sleep because Seattle City Light is outside using a chainsaw to prune a bush around some power pole on which they replaced a transformer or some shit...
BRO YOU'D HAVE TO BE HELLA STONED TO EVEN COME UP WITH THE NOTION THAT LEGALIZING WEED WOULD MAKE IT MORE EXPENSIVE, EVEN WITH THE GREEDY CONGLOMERATES AND BUREAUCRATS AND ALL THAT...BECAUSE BRO WE CAN JUST GROW IT IN OUR WINDOWSILLS RIGHT NEXT TO THE SIMON N GARFUNKLE QUADMEDLEY NAHMEAN
ok, first off, wu and saracenus gotta come wth more alaska boat stories. in detail. this could rival nzshadows porn clerk tales (well, probly not, but i reckon theyll be good)
tangentially, in that AV stunt avatar, that dude clocks the hell out of the trash monster. he might have gevn him a concussion. great reflexes on the punchers part!
back to the thread... decriminalization might not be across the board. growng mght still be illegal. i hope not, but if evrything has been so baby stepped up to this point, no reason to think that some sweeping change will suddenly be instituted.
i was talking about this with my pop the other day (who is 76, has barely done any drugs in his life, and is pro decrim of most substances). we wondered what effect mj decrim would have on mexican drug cartels. sure, cocaine is still their big thing, but would decrim/legalizing diminish their power at all? they must make a shit ton of dough off the weed.
and i cant imagine mj use increasing more than a percentage point or two if it was legalzed. its too easy to get right now...its practically a manistream presence in amercan highschools and popular culture.
Duke, hemp is one of the strongest natural fibers. No joke. There is a huge market for it. Non narcotic uses for mj are discussed because they are outlawed.
The idea that use would go up exponentially in the case of legalization / decriminalization is absurd. See Spain and The Netherlands.
The obama admin needs to stop all the bla bla bla and make some moves already.
Good grief. I am not some hemp wearing hippy talkin' bout the awesome powers of the herb. I was talking about the supply and demand curve of a commodity that has more uses than smoking it.
It could very well be that growin' buds is more profitable than industrial hemp but it also could be the other way around.
I am in the middle of my Managerial Accounting class and all we do is assess costs all day long and if there is anything I have learned is once MJ is legal (and probably before it is) some Cost Accounting Gnome will do the math and figure out where the money is.
Considering that buds can be grown at home and there would be tremendous competition from other small growers the margins on such a market would be small, very small. When profit margins are small its the scale of the operation that makes the millions. I will bet the larger scale of the industrial side of the cannabis equation would be a better bet over the long haul as a business model.
Isn't the hemp used for rope/clothing/paper/etc derived from a completely different part of the plant than the buds for smoking are? Isn't a plant designed for optimal use in those applications going to be cultivated and harvested differently than one made for potent, recreational smoking?
I don't think the two would impact each other at all.
Isn't the hemp used for rope/clothing/paper/etc derived from a completely different part of the plant than the buds for smoking are? Isn't a plant designed for optimal use in those applications going to be cultivated and harvested differently than one made for potent, recreational smoking?
I don't think the two would impact each other at all.
Pretty much all smoke is carcinogenic to some degree.
Who said anything about smoke?
Pretty much all air is carcinogenic to some degree.
It's a terrible argument, based on bad/no science.
Are you implying that the vast majority of marijuana ingestion isn't via smoking? Because that's patently false.
And the whole "air is carcinogenic too" argument is ridiculous. We're talking about the difference between trace amounts of carcinogens and concentrated doses. Orders of magnitude in difference. You might as well say there's no difference between eating an entire chocolate cake and eating a lima bean, because they both contain calories.
Pretty much all smoke is carcinogenic to some degree.
Who said anything about smoke?
Pretty much all air is carcinogenic to some degree.
It's a terrible argument, based on bad/no science.
Are you implying that the vast majority of marijuana ingestion isn't via smoking? Because that's patently false.
And the whole "air is carcinogenic too" argument is ridiculous. We're talking about the difference between trace amounts of carcinogens and concentrated doses. Orders of magnitude in difference. You might as well say there's no difference between eating an entire chocolate cake and eating a lima bean, because they both contain calories.
Did you know that the sand in a little kids sandbox is very carcinogenic??
Isn't the hemp used for rope/clothing/paper/etc derived from a completely different part of the plant than the buds for smoking are? Isn't a plant designed for optimal use in those applications going to be cultivated and harvested differently than one made for potent, recreational smoking?
I don't think the two would impact each other at all.
Not only that, they are basically two entirely different plants.
The marijuana grown for hemp has virtually no THC, and the plants grown for smoking have very little fiber.
and i cant imagine mj use increasing more than a percentage point or two if it was legalzed. its too easy to get right now...its practically a manistream presence in amercan highschools and popular culture.
That's not the same thing as having it legal. If I want to get a cigarette, I know, in an instant, where I can go and have absolutely no concerns about doing so. If I want to get a joint, the basic level of knowledge and possible risk is exponentially greater. Is it easy to get weed? Compared to other contraband, yes, probably. But compared to other legal drugs, such as alcohol or nicotine? Absolutely not.
If MJ had the same restrictions on it as tobacco (or lack thereof), you really think usage would only go up by 1-2%? What rationale would explain such a low increase? You think the number of people who'd potentially want to smoke MJ is maxed out already?
Interestingly, decriminalization didn't fuel a big spike in usage in the Netherlands but I'd be hesitant to compare the two societies too closely since the US, in general, seems to have a penchant for addictive personalities when it comes to drug consumption.
Anyways, my original point was that legalization would have some health care impact. Given how much this country spends on alcohol and tobacco-related illnesses and other costs, I don't see how legalization of other drugs - ranging from MJ up to heroin or coke - WOULDN'T also create more health care related costs. That's not an argument against legalization. It's just pointing out what possible future consequences would be.
I don't think decriminalization has the same impact though; I don't think usage would skyrocket. Legalization is a different beast.
Also, regarding the link between marijuana smoking and lung cancer, Zilla is correct and I was not. I was just plucking a smoking-related disease out of the air; I just don't think smoking anything is that good for your lungs, but as it turns out, recent studies suggest THC actually helps REDUCE the likelihood of lung cancer.
Also, regarding the link between marijuana smoking and lung cancer, Zilla is correct and I was not. I was just plucking a smoking-related disease out of the air; I just don't think smoking anything is that good for your lungs, but as it turns out, recent studies suggest THC actually helps REDUCE the likelihood of lung cancer.
smoking anything is bad for your lungs but for the most part people do not smoke weed like they do tobacco. if you smoke a pack of cigs you are smoking close to 20 grams of tobacco. 20 grams of good weed would last even a HEAVY smoker half a week (bob marley and ras trent excluded). in amsterdam i took 2 hits of some haze was BLAZED. also nicotine is highly addictive. thc is not addictive at all and the act of smoking weed is only habit forming. if you stop smoking weed you don't feel like you are going to die. you don't need to be hospitalized and put on downers like an alcoholic. marijuana gets a bad rap for being a generally good thing. its a crazy world we live in.
Comments
I once had a cop who pulled me over tell me this....
"If I see a guy driving 85 in a 55 it's probably due to alcohol. If they're driving 25 in a 55 they're probably stoned".
What makes you think the number of smokers would go up that much? Weed is so readily available right now, I don't know of anyone who wants to smoke but can't get any.
No doubt. Anybody ever sat at a stop sign waiting for the traffic light to turn green? Har! Stoners are high-larious!
industrial hemp has nothing to do with sensimilla. why would industrial use of hemp have anything to do with female buds you buy to smoke to get high? this isn't like corn/ethanol at all.
i myself dont really see where duke's anger towards 'hemp' comes from. it just so happens if the plant was legal you could also use the 'hemp' for all kinds of things. yes i realize people mostly just want to get high but why be angry about that angle?
[Adam Ant]What do you do?[/Adam Ant]
But as matter of policy, I've looked at the pros and cons of decrim and legalization and I'm certainly swayed by the idea that anything is better than what we're doing now.
It could very well be that growin' buds is more profitable than industrial hemp but it also could be the other way around.
I am in the middle of my Managerial Accounting class and all we do is assess costs all day long and if there is anything I have learned is once MJ is legal (and probably before it is) some Cost Accounting Gnome will do the math and figure out where the money is.
Considering that buds can be grown at home and there would be tremendous competition from other small growers the margins on such a market would be small, very small. When profit margins are small its the scale of the operation that makes the millions. I will bet the larger scale of the industrial side of the cannabis equation would be a better bet over the long haul as a business model.
alcohol was prohibited in Alaska in the late 80s?!?!?
b/w
i don't know why so many people here think that small growers would make such a noticeable impact on the mj economy if it were legalized. are there ANY other natural products for which even the total sum of private growers represent a significant player in the market? i can't think of any...home gardeners, home brewers etc are barely a blip on the radar in their industries. if there's a good reason to believe this would be different in the mj economy i'm all ears, but particularly given the difficulty of properly cultivating your own weed (at least as compared to anything from having an orange tree in the backyard to brewing your own lagers) i just don't see it.
Wu is referring to our summer in Bethel, AK working on a Salmon processing barge. Bethel was a native town that banned alcohol. Thus, the price of a 5th of Jack was insane and if you wanted beer you had to have it flown in (provided you were not a Yupic Eskimo).
I will say payday for the native fisherman was "interesting" because the volatile cocktail of booze, money and guns. It made me glad our barge was a converted WWII LST and basically my sleeping quarters where armored up. There is nothing more sad than seeing a pair of Eskimo's drunk off their asses, waving their handguns around while stumbling about.
Ironically, the trustifarians that we worked with had no problem getting weed.
I will say that those trustifarians were pretty good at ping pong. Remember when I lost the motor off the skiff? That was funny. And F*ck that Swedish cook who was a Nazi, like an actually Nazi. Alaska is crazy.
b/w
All due respect, by my brother doesn't have the story totally straight. In the Yukon it was illegal (for anyone) to distribute but not to possess. I was told that in the winter, when the supply planes couldn't fly in, Aqua Velva ran low at the trading post. I repeat Alaska is crazy.
That other uses for the plant could eat up the smokable supply never crossed my drunk mind...is that what Saracenus is saying? That's a puzzler...
I can't imagine there'll be any shortage of smokables if it's decriminalized, though. I just hope it happens. I'm sick of hearing about pot busts. Such a waste of time and money.
I do smoke pot about once every year or so. It's insane--how do you do that every day all day?
I have a tshirt that has no dyes and shit on it, I think it may be hemp.
waitaminute
I'll bet a forty sack that there's no other application of marijuana that will possibly make the skrills that smoke-type can demand. no way. You think?
I think the plant should be decriminalized. I think adults should be able to grow/possess/smoke it, and that we should quit locking people up for it. How anyone could disagree--I have no idea.
I'm three beers deep right now. I can't go to sleep because Seattle City Light is outside using a chainsaw to prune a bush around some power pole on which they replaced a transformer or some shit...
BRO YOU'D HAVE TO BE HELLA STONED TO EVEN COME UP WITH THE NOTION THAT LEGALIZING WEED WOULD MAKE IT MORE EXPENSIVE, EVEN WITH THE GREEDY CONGLOMERATES AND BUREAUCRATS AND ALL THAT...BECAUSE BRO WE CAN JUST GROW IT IN OUR WINDOWSILLS RIGHT NEXT TO THE SIMON N GARFUNKLE QUADMEDLEY NAHMEAN
tangentially, in that AV stunt avatar, that dude clocks the hell out of the trash monster. he might have gevn him a concussion. great reflexes on the punchers part!
back to the thread...
decriminalization might not be across the board. growng mght still be illegal. i hope not, but if evrything has been so baby stepped up to this point, no reason to think that some sweeping change will suddenly be instituted.
i was talking about this with my pop the other day (who is 76, has barely done any drugs in his life, and is pro decrim of most substances). we wondered what effect mj decrim would have on mexican drug cartels. sure, cocaine is still their big thing, but would decrim/legalizing diminish their power at all? they must make a shit ton of dough off the weed.
Duke, hemp is one of the strongest natural fibers. No joke. There is a huge market for it. Non narcotic uses for mj are discussed because they are outlawed.
The idea that use would go up exponentially in the case of legalization / decriminalization is absurd. See Spain and The Netherlands.
The obama admin needs to stop all the bla bla bla and make some moves already.
Pretty much all smoke is carcinogenic to some degree.
^^^^^ROCKS A HEMP SNUGGIE
Who said anything about smoke?
Pretty much all air is carcinogenic to some degree.
It's a terrible argument, based on bad/no science.
I don't think the two would impact each other at all.
^^^^^ROCKS TWO-HEADED MONSTER STYLE HEMP SNUGGIE W/ SARACENUS
Are you implying that the vast majority of marijuana ingestion isn't via smoking? Because that's patently false.
And the whole "air is carcinogenic too" argument is ridiculous. We're talking about the difference between trace amounts of carcinogens and concentrated doses. Orders of magnitude in difference. You might as well say there's no difference between eating an entire chocolate cake and eating a lima bean, because they both contain calories.
Fusk all that. Vaporizer. Well worth the price.
Did you know that the sand in a little kids sandbox is very carcinogenic??
Not only that, they are basically two entirely different plants.
The marijuana grown for hemp has virtually no THC, and the plants grown for smoking have very little fiber.
That's not the same thing as having it legal. If I want to get a cigarette, I know, in an instant, where I can go and have absolutely no concerns about doing so. If I want to get a joint, the basic level of knowledge and possible risk is exponentially greater. Is it easy to get weed? Compared to other contraband, yes, probably. But compared to other legal drugs, such as alcohol or nicotine? Absolutely not.
If MJ had the same restrictions on it as tobacco (or lack thereof), you really think usage would only go up by 1-2%? What rationale would explain such a low increase? You think the number of people who'd potentially want to smoke MJ is maxed out already?
Interestingly, decriminalization didn't fuel a big spike in usage in the Netherlands but I'd be hesitant to compare the two societies too closely since the US, in general, seems to have a penchant for addictive personalities when it comes to drug consumption.
Anyways, my original point was that legalization would have some health care impact. Given how much this country spends on alcohol and tobacco-related illnesses and other costs, I don't see how legalization of other drugs - ranging from MJ up to heroin or coke - WOULDN'T also create more health care related costs. That's not an argument against legalization. It's just pointing out what possible future consequences would be.
I don't think decriminalization has the same impact though; I don't think usage would skyrocket. Legalization is a different beast.
Also, regarding the link between marijuana smoking and lung cancer, Zilla is correct and I was not. I was just plucking a smoking-related disease out of the air; I just don't think smoking anything is that good for your lungs, but as it turns out, recent studies suggest THC actually helps REDUCE the likelihood of lung cancer.