Bowie or Bolan?

ShingalingShingaling 877 Posts
edited January 2016 in Music Talk
I love these new .... or .... threads. The Dylan and Donovan thread hit real close to home and made me think of how much I discuss this one... WHO DO YOU LISTEN TO MORE...BOWIE OR BOLAN?
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  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    oooohhhh.... TOUGH!

  • ShingalingShingaling 877 Posts
    oooohhhh.... TOUGH!

    Not for me.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    oooohhhh.... TOUGH!

    Not for me.

    well...

  • ShingalingShingaling 877 Posts
    oooohhhh.... TOUGH!

    Not for me.

    well...

    Both are great but Bowie wishes he was Bolan.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    oooohhhh.... TOUGH!

    Not for me.

    well...

    Both are great but Bowie wishes he was Bolan.

    I listen to Bowie more, but I really like Bolan's early acoustic stuff a lot.

  • edith headedith head 5,106 Posts
    i listen to bowie more but by accident because he is always playing in the bars more than bolan and because he seems even more popular now due to wes anderson soundtracks.



    but i like bolan more, expecially the tyrannosaurus rex stuff. some of those acoustic jawns are really beautiful & sweet sounding. not to say bowie isn't great, but he's not as great as he's hyped up to be. bowie kinda ripped off a lot of different people from scott walker to the velvets and that's why it seems like he is "reinventing" himself. haha, even bongwater had a song called "David Bowie Wants Ideas"



    but low and hunky dory are my favorite.




  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    oooohhhh.... TOUGH!

    Not for me.
    cosign, t.rex was and is unstoppable... to bad mark's mini cooper wasn't. i think bowie's okay, but overplayed. one other plus for bowie though, is that fucker had a micromoog factory installed into his powder-blue 70's lincoln (fact stolen from moog issue of grand royal magazine RIP)

  • ShingalingShingaling 877 Posts
    (Not hatin' just sayin') Bowie idolized Bolan. When Tyrannosaurus Rex first started playing Bowie use to mime dance down front at the shows.



    At that time Bowie was doing that "Mr. Grave Digger""By Me A Coat" bullshit. IMO he bit Bolan's act and made a fortune/career with it. Things like this frustrate the hell out of me. Every average day Joe knows who Bowie is but not Bolan. Even the name T.REX doesn't ring a bell for most. I think it sucks that most people know Bolan for "Bang A Gong."

  • edith headedith head 5,106 Posts


    cosign, t.rex was and is unstoppable... to bad mark's mini cooper wasn't.



    OUCH



    Jeff have you heard Shagrat? I LOVE THIS RECORD







    "11 ultra rare tracks for this short-lived band formed by Steve Took (of Tyrannosaurus Rex fame) and Twink at the end of 1969. Three of these tracks ('The Sparrow Is A Sign', 'The Coming Of The Other One' and 'Three Little Piggies') came out later on Twink's classic Think Pink album and the versions included here were recorded (just before Steve Took left with Marc Bolan for the very first Tyrannosaurus Rex US tour) at Recorded Sound Studios in London during 1969 with various members of The Pink Fairies, Motorcycle Club and All Star Rock And Roll Band. The other tracks were recorded at Denmark Street Studios between 1969 and 1970 by Steve Peregrin Took (guitar and vocals), Twink (drums and more) and Paul Rudolph (bass). Contains liner notes."



    http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/shagrat.html



    you should peep game it's very lovely




  • ShingalingShingaling 877 Posts
    Anybody know the real story about how Steve Took died? I heard dude choked on a cherry in his cocktail. Either that or was eaten by a dragon...it's one of the two.

  • coffinjoecoffinjoe 1,743 Posts
    Anybody know the real story about how Steve Took died? I heard dude choked on a cherry in his cocktail. Either that or was eaten by a dragon...it's one of the two.

    "Steve had bought some drugs for himself and Valerie, mainly some powdered morphine and a bag of magic mushrooms. Billet would later recall that she and Took both injected themselves with the morphine. Steve died of asphyxiation after inhaling a cocktail cherry. He was just 31 years old."


  • edith headedith head 5,106 Posts
    Either that or was eaten by a dragon...it's one of the two.



    for real where is that wizard rock graemlin when i need it



    p.s. for all of you who said you liked tyrannausaurus rex aka acoustic bolan check out this san francisco band Vetiver who i think are pretty damn good and have a smiliar aesthetic



    http://www.midheaven.com/fi/audio/Farther_On.mp3

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    died of asphyxiation after inhaling a cocktail cherry.
    man, that almost happened to me last weekend, eating some mike & ike's... for a second i thought it was over.

  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts
    Vetiver[/url]

    really excellent stuff.

    i find Bolan to have a freshness that can be a little lackin in the majority of bowies work. but it could also be the Bowie aims for a much LARGER vibe than Bolan.

    that said Bowie when he's in the zone is a force to behold. Low in particular is just absolutely goose bumpy PERFECT.


  • ShingalingShingaling 877 Posts
    Either that or was eaten by a dragon...it's one of the two.

    for real where is that wizard rock graemlin when i need it



  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts
    I gotta go, with Bolan, only had to think about it for a second...the 70s aside...all you have to do is look at both artists' early work to see who was more talented and had more vison...Bolan's early decca singles "The Wizard", "The Third Degree" and such show he was already into his own thing, even though he was wearing Dylan on his sleeve(a bazillion others were also) it still had an originality that Bowie never had. The early Bowie sides like "Laughing Gnome" and his other stuff from that era sucks ass. Its terrible. Bowie is a genius when it comes to taking best parts of other's people style and making great song out of them...ie "Queen Bitch" is the greatest song Lou Reed never wrote, that in itself is a talent...but if you are looking at the bottom line...Bolan is more talented and more original.

  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    I'd say Bowie's popularity over Bolan is due to lyrics - he has some universalist themes in there - T Rex is alot of free-associative beatnik 'electric mosquito' type stuff.

    what's that one acoustic Bolan song that repeats backwards at full length as the next cut?

    Debra something?

    ---

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,920 Posts
    Vetiver[/url]

    really excellent stuff.

    i find Bolan to have a freshness that can be a little lackin in the majority of bowies work. but it could also be the Bowie aims for a much LARGER vibe than Bolan.

    that said Bowie when he's in the zone is a force to behold. Low in particular is just absolutely goose bumpy PERFECT.


    There's a run of Bowie albums from "Diamond Dogs" through to "Heroes" that, to me, are nigh-on flawless. Much as I like Bolan ("Jeepster" by T.Rex was the first record I ever bought), he never came near that level of consistency. I don't really care who Bowie ripped off, or whether or not he idolised Bolan - that's beside the point. If there's a better example in the last thirty-odd years of a rock artist who transcended his influences and went on to be hugely influential himself, I'd like to know who. Plus, he put Luther Vandross on.

  • awallawall 673 Posts
    a while back a friend of mine had a sick bolan party. his dad was a member of the bolan fan club and had sealed fan club pressings of every bolan related album (tyrannosaurus rex, t-rex and bolan solo). starting in the afternoon we opened each album and listened to them in chronological order. plus he had huge posters of the various stages of bolan (again, from the fan club) up all around the room. the party got more dance-oriented as bolan's albums got more glam...things got pretty crazy and near the end and some drunk guy got mased.

  • ShingalingShingaling 877 Posts
    Hook-Up knows Bolan's son...Rolan Bolan. He said he wears T.Rex shirts all the time. I guess he could tell you more.

  • edith headedith head 5,106 Posts
    I gotta go, with Bolan, only had to think about it for a second...the 70s aside...all you have to do is look at both artists' early work to see who was more talented and had more vison...Bolan's early decca singles "The Wizard", "The Third Degree" and such show he was already into his own thing, even though he was wearing Dylan on his sleeve(a bazillion others were also) it still had an originality that Bowie never had. The early Bowie sides like "Laughing Gnome" and his other stuff from that era sucks ass. Its terrible. Bowie is a genius when it comes to taking best parts of other's people style and making great song out of them...ie "Queen Bitch" is the greatest song Lou Reed never wrote, that in itself is a talent...but if you are looking at the bottom line...Bolan is more talented and more original.

    couldn't have said it better.

  • awallawall 673 Posts
    this is my favorite bowie album

  • edith headedith head 5,106 Posts
    this is my favorite bowie album




    "sweet 16 in leather boots I go crazy Baby, baby I'ma hungry..."



    i'd say it's as much Pop's as it is Bowie's




  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    Look, I'm as big a Bolan worshipper as any of you, BUT... if you read the recent Mojo ish with Louie Reed on the cover it puts all this stuff into proper context in a way it hasn't been presented to me before, including plenty of quotes from the folks who were there... yes, Bowie was influenced by Bolan. BUT Bolan was increasingly strung-out, egomaniacal, and paranoid at that point and he basically became a one-trick pony... due to his incessant need to further his celebrity and keep his name on the charts he wouldn't ever innovate and develop further as an artist after he discovered his "sound". Visconti was producing both of them, worked closely with both of them, and helped shape the sound (to great effect) of both of their works at the time... he kept encouraging Bolan to take things a step further and work out a concept album but dude couldn't focus enough. Bowie dropped ZIGGY STARDUST and it really was all over in that moment.

    All in all Bolanmania was rabidly out of control for about a year-and-a-half, while dude's rock period was at its peak... things petered out quickly after that, and though he always had a presence he was never considered godly again. Don't forget that although he's basically unknown in the States he was pretty much THAT DUDE for long enough in the UK that his rep there is huge (I mean c'mon, you seen 20+ volumes of unreleased material released for ANY artist in the US???)

    Bolan's body of work is incredible, no doubt. But Marc would not have had the vision to hook up with Eno for one thing, which produced some of Bowie's best output. And Bowie's evershifting persona covers a good deal of ground, he basically documented every form of rock from the mid-60s to early-80s and he did most with class. Marc could not have accomplished this. All I'm saying is don't try to underestimate Bowie just because he's so well known and respected here...

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    I listen to bolan qite a bit more. I even listen to ziggy stardust more. For some reason I always find people who love prince AND david bowie somewhat obnoxious.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts


    but low and hunky dory are my favorite.


    nice choices...frankly I feel Bowie is best repped by his hits packages Changes 1 and 2, they really boil the best sounds he had to offer down to the essence, but barring that I am partial to Ziggy, Low, Hunky Dory, that covers LP(forgot the title) and Scary Monsters. I dig the idea of Young Americans a lot, and Fame is awesome, but I think the LP lacks ooomph. And Let's Dance is certainly one of the better 80s transitions that any of the glam folks made.

    I dig T Rex a lot, but admit to settling for the 2 glam masterpieces (The Slider and Electric Warrior) and never venturing much beyond. I think those are 2 of the crunchiest guitar records of the 70s and have plenty of soul and biz-zang to boot.


  • SIRUSSIRUS 2,554 Posts
    i can't believe dudes are shitting on bowie when he had the vision to dance around with muppets and tried to fuck jennifer connelly at a costume ball.
    "DANCE MAGIC DANCE MUTHAFUCKERS!"

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,920 Posts
    Look, I'm as big a Bolan worshipper as any of you, BUT... if you read the recent Mojo ish with Louie Reed on the cover it puts all this stuff into proper context in a way it hasn't been presented to me before, including plenty of quotes from the folks who were there... yes, Bowie was influenced by Bolan. BUT Bolan was increasingly strung-out, egomaniacal, and paranoid at that point and he basically became a one-trick pony... due to his incessant need to further his celebrity and keep his name on the charts he wouldn't ever innovate and develop further as an artist after he discovered his "sound". Visconti was producing both of them, worked closely with both of them, and helped shape the sound (to great effect) of both of their works at the time... he kept encouraging Bolan to take things a step further and work out a concept album but dude couldn't focus enough. Bowie dropped ZIGGY STARDUST and it really was all over in that moment.

    All in all Bolanmania was rabidly out of control for about a year-and-a-half, while dude's rock period was at its peak... things petered out quickly after that, and though he always had a presence he was never considered godly again. Don't forget that although he's basically unknown in the States he was pretty much THAT DUDE for long enough in the UK that his rep there is huge (I mean c'mon, you seen 20+ volumes of unreleased material released for ANY artist in the US???)

    Bolan's body of work is incredible, no doubt. But Marc would not have had the vision to hook up with Eno for one thing, which produced some of Bowie's best output. And Bowie's evershifting persona covers a good deal of ground, he basically documented every form of rock from the mid-60s to early-80s and he did most with class. Marc could not have accomplished this. All I'm saying is don't try to underestimate Bowie just because he's so well known and respected here...

    This is it right here. The period when Bolan was peaking in the UK (and Bowie was on the come-up) was when I started listening and paying attention to music instead of just hearing it. If you were a British kid in the early 70's, you couldn't avoid Bolan. Every new T.Rex single was an event. The key word there is "single", though - like I said earlier, the first record I bought was the 45 of "Jeepster", but the first album I bought was "Ziggy Stardust". And there's the difference. Bolan was definitely capable of taking it to another level but, for all the reasons you describe above, he didn't and, by 1974, he was a spent force. He was never a great or, at least, consistent album artist, whereas Bowie's albums and live shows were raising the bar throughout the 70's and, arguably, into the 80's as well.

    I guess there's a lot more interest in Bolan's early stuff because of people (copyists?) like Devendra Banhart or whoever, and that's cool because that side of his output has been somewhat neglected in the recent past. But speaking as someone who, for want of a better description, was there at the time, Bowie was hitting his stride just as Bolan had peaked, with the latter having only a slow decline, artistically and commercially, to look forward to.

    And good call on Lust For Life - people forget that Bowie gave Iggy some incredible material to work with, even if he did fuck up badly when he took a run at some of it himself ("Tonight"? ). "Lust For Life" and "The Idiot" have held up a lot better than much of the punk/new wave stuff from the same period.

  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts
    don't forget that Bowie also produeced not ony the Idiot but Reed's Transformer, AND Raw Power by the Stooges.

    the man was just OUT OF FREAKING CONTROL.

    what i find most interestign about the paradigm shift of Bowie the wannabee Bolan is that it goes pretty full swing with Bolan trying desperate for comebacks...

    has anyone actually heard Zinc Alloy and The Hidden Riders of Tomorrow (or whatever it's called) Bolan's WAY to late in the game attempt at ziggisms?


  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    A surprising amount of Bowie hatting going on here...Bowie has so much dope material!

    ALL[/b] of these albums are classic:

    Ziggy Stardust
    Pin-ups
    Hunky Dory
    Man Who Sold the World
    Space Odditty
    Low
    Heroes
    & Alladin Sane, which has "Panic in Detroit" - unfukwitable!!!

    One man overlooked in this thread, the power behind so much Bowie gold:



    Mick Ronson, batches!!!
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