Quote:h, 21b, 21 BART is a commuter line, first and foremost. It's for the good of suburban dwellers who work in the city but you don't use it to travel IN the city. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21I do, just like many others who live in the Mission or try to get there. In fact, I prefer BART over Muni for any of the 4 underground market st stations. God, Muni is the freaking worst b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21Get a motorcycle or scooter. It's a life changerender when living in SF. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /1b, 21b, 21As for BART vs. MUNI, sure, you can use BART to get around in the city but it's a super limited set of options. b, 21b, 21I dunno, I lived off the N-Judah line which I found convenient and hardly insufferable.
Quote:h, 21b, 21 BART is a commuter line, first and foremost. It's for the good of suburban dwellers who work in the city but you don't use it to travel IN the city. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21I do, just like many others who live in the Mission or try to get there. In fact, I prefer BART over Muni for any of the 4 underground market st stations. God, Muni is the freaking worst b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21Get a motorcycle or scooter. It's a life changer when living in SF. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21heh, i'd rather not because i am a parking ticket magnet. it's why i got rid of my car. driving a stick shift in the city was kinda fun though, i miss it. now i use zip car for when i absolutely need one which is really convenient and gas is included b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21Cosign on Zipcars but motorcycle parking is plentiful. Lots of places have free motorcycle parking. Even the pay parking is just a dime for a half hour. You just gotta watch for street sweeping.
Quote:h, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21Don't think it happened for reasons expressed above. The move of blacks at least in the Bay Area has been to leave Oakland, SF and Richmond for the outer reaches of the Bay and the Central Valley. Antioch, Stockton and Sacramento being the main destinations due to their lower housing costs. After that, many got up and left the state and moved back to the South, again, for the cheaper cost of living. On the other hand, there's been a massive growth of the Latino population here that started in the 1980s, but really took off in the 90s. Don't know about SF, but in the East Bay they're moving into lot of traditional black neighborhoods like East Oakland and downtown Richmond and white working class areas of San Pablo and Pinole. None of this had anything to do with BART. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21This is exactly right. It's changing "the game". There is a drug corridor popping off along the 580 to the 680. From Stockton to Pittsburg to Pleasanton to Fairfield, a lot of far-flung towns are getting surprisingly violent. Overall the central Bay Area has become less diverse in recent years; I don't think it "looks less segregated" either.b, 21b, 21There may not be strict "white neighborhood"/"black neighborhood" lines like there are in some cities, but that's mainly because there are almost NO strictly black neighborhoods in SF anymore, with the exception of Hunters Point. They've been turned into white and asian neighborhoods with a smattering of older families who own property and then folks that live in public housing.b, 21b, 21I was talking to a homie in youth outreach and he was telling me a lot of the drug dealers he comes into contact with are commuting into the city; they don't actually live in The Mission or Fillmore or Western Addition or whatever. Probably can't afford to!
Quote:h, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21Don't think it happened for reasons expressed above. The move of blacks at least in the Bay Area has been to leave Oakland, SF and Richmond for the outer reaches of the Bay and the Central Valley. Antioch, Stockton and Sacramento being the main destinations due to their lower housing costs. After that, many got up and left the state and moved back to the South, again, for the cheaper cost of living. On the other hand, there's been a massive growth of the Latino population here that started in the 1980s, but really took off in the 90s. Don't know about SF, but in the East Bay they're moving into lot of traditional black neighborhoods like East Oakland and downtown Richmond and white working class areas of San Pablo and Pinole. None of this had anything to do with BART. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21This is exactly right. It's changing "the game". There is a drug corridor popping off along the 580 to the 680. From Stockton to Pittsburg to Pleasanton to Fairfield, a lot of far-flung towns are getting surprisingly violent. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21Word. Not surprisingly either, a lot of of places, especially Fairfield, have gotten double-whammied bythe housing bust + declining industrial/blue collar work. Fairfield especially has some straight ghost-town vibes in both their residential and commercial districts. I don't want to imagine how Vallejo is faring. b, 21b, 21I hear Lancaster down here in So Cal is the same way; shit is bad, headed for worse, quickly.
O needs to see some Eastern Cities. b, 21b, 21SF is very integrated from what I saw in my brief tourist stay. b, 21b, 21That millionaires don't live in SRO hotels is not much of a surprise. b, 21b, 21We stayed at the Tenderloin YH. We walked the grid in all directions, day and night, to get where we were going. It didn't take long to realize that some streets were more pleasant than others.
Quote:h, 21b, 21O needs to see some Eastern Cities. b, 21b, 21SF is very integrated from what I saw in my brief tourist stay. b, 21b, 21That millionaires don't live in SRO hotels is not much of a surprise. b, 21b, 21We stayed at the Tenderloin YH. We walked the grid in all directions, day and night, to get where we were going. It didn't take long to realize that some streets were more pleasant than others. b, 21b, 21h, 21
font class="post"1b, 21b, 21The point here is that "integration" is all relative. And as I've tried to say, the perception of SF's integration is partially a product of its smaller scale. By simple demographics, SF is more diverse than many east coast cities insofar as you have sizable White, Asian and Latino populations but if you look at the overall "integration" by race or class, neighborhood by neighborhood - which in SF means block by block - the separations become more obvious. b, 21b, 21You can't compare SF with Boston or Cleveland - spatially, they're laid out completely different. But if the question here is about meaningful interaction between people of different class and racial backgrounds, SF may look like an improvement over worse cities, but for anyone whose seen the decline of the Bay's overall integration over the last 20 years, it's nothing to crow about.
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