b, 21b, 21Where do you go to see what the lunatic fringe on the opposite side is saying??(besides SS). b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21I don't fucks with Salon or the Nation. My tolerance for overtly partisan stuff is low... I prefer left-leaning (slate).b, 21b, 21Olbermann is a guilty pleasure, as are the headlines and Op-Ed pages of the Boston Herald.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21 To the great credit of Republicans, none that I know have said the election was stolen because of ACORN--which it obviously wasn't--but none of this stopped Dems in 2000[/b] b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Are you f*cking kidding me? If there was ever an election to debate being stolen, 2000 would be it. b, 21b, 21
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21 To the great credit of Republicans, none that I know have said the election was stolen because of ACORN--which it obviously wasn't--but none of this stopped Dems in 2000[/b] b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Are you f*cking kidding me? If there was ever an election to debate being stolen, 2000 would be it. b, 21b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21 b, 21b, 21Helllllllllllo, Florida!
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21 To the great credit of Republicans, none that I know have said the election was stolen because of ACORN--which it obviously wasn't--but none of this stopped Dems in 2000[/b] b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Are you f*cking kidding me? If there was ever an election to debate being stolen, 2000 would be it. b, 21b, 21 b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21Most conservatives do want Obama to succeed. I know I do. To the great credit of Republicans, none that I know have said the election was stolen because of ACORN--which it obviously wasn't--but none of this stopped Dems in 2000 and 2004 from making the same argument. If there is another war, I hope conservatives and republicans who support it at first, don't say they regret their votes and make up phony stories about secret foreign linked cabals in the government tampering with the intelligence. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Fudging typical Republican - your first thoughts are about another war? You got sawdust for brains or are you just hoping for your next foreign assignment? Assh*le.b, 21b, 21When the Dems win an election due to a sibling robber-baron influencing vote manipulation in Florida, then Republicans will make the same argument. They know they had their asses handed to them and now have to listen to the whole world celebrate. And why is the whole world celebrating? /font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21If there is another war, I hope conservatives and republicans who support itb, 21b, 21h, 21 - No question of not supporting another war then? GTFOHWTB. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Well most Democrats did support the Iraq war. When that war lost popularity they made up a story about intel manipulation. And lots of partisans around the country said lots of crazy fairy tale nonsense about Iraq. Had we listened to the counsel of democrats in 2006, then more Iraqis and Americans fighting in Iraq would be killed and the country would be reeling from a civil war that has largely abated. The country would be worse off and we would not be seeing a country preparing for its fourth consecutive national election--an accomplishment no doubt. b, 21b, 21I think Democrats have their folkways about Bush, Cheney and Diebold. It's not that much different that how many evangelicals think someone is making up fossil records and that the earth is really 6,000 years old. It is a story believed by millions and defended vigorously. It's also false. Obama will be inheriting a country already at war. The country is not at war because of Bush. It's at war because of al Qaeda and Islamic Supremacists. These actual facts do not change no matter the howls of the empirically challenged. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21You are so grossly uninformed.b, 21To begin with Diebold chairman Walden O'Dell was forced to resign due to the solid email correspondence between he and the Republican party in which he assured them a 2004 victory via his Columbus, Ohio based companies' machines.b, 21That is, for starters, the tip of your information deficit here.b, 21You seem to make your comments from an uninformed place, you are free to have your views but you sound foolish when you dismiss factual information and make a mess of it. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21b, 21Again, this is what I'm sayinnnnng....
Sorry, Bush and Co. did not lie about Iraq's WMD. U.S. intelligence were cluseless, and the White House repeated what they said but without the cavets. On Al Qaeda, that's where the White House was full of shit themselves. Several hundred Al Qaeda fighters did flee Afghanistan after the U.S. invasion, but they want to join Ansar al-Islam in Kurdistan where Baghdad had no say. The terrorist Zarqawi did enter Iraq pre-invasion, and the authorities knew, but Zarqawi was NOT Al Qaeda. He was in fact, a rival who successfully turned the Iraq war into his path to jihad stardom. If the U.S. had not planned on invading Iraq, Zarqawi would not have been there.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,915 Posts
/font1
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21And as we speak i see another inflamatoryy Sodahead banner above:b, 21b, 21ARE YOU READY TO KISS YOUR PAYCHECK GOODBYE?! b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I'm getting "MY RECORD COLLECTION IS WORTH MORE THAN YOUR HOUSE"b, 21b, 21b/wb, 21b, 21"I pay not to post here!"
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21And as we speak i see another inflamatoryy Sodahead banner above:b, 21b, 21ARE YOU READY TO KISS YOUR PAYCHECK GOODBYE?! b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I hope Raj is getting paid off this shit because it's kind of painful otherwise.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Sorry, Bush and Co. did not lie about Iraq's WMD. U.S. intelligence were cluseless, and the White House repeated what they said but without the cavets. On Al Qaeda, that's where the White House was full of shit themselves. Several hundred Al Qaeda fighters did flee Afghanistan after the U.S. invasion, but they want to join Ansar al-Islam in Kurdistan where Baghdad had no say. The terrorist Zarqawi did enter Iraq pre-invasion, and the authorities knew, but Zarqawi was NOT Al Qaeda. He was in fact, a rival who successfully turned the Iraq war into his path to jihad stardom. If the U.S. had not planned on invading Iraq, Zarqawi would not have been there. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21US Intelligence was not clueless. b, 21b, 21They chose to use bad intelligence over good intelligence. They could have listened to Amb. Wilson who was giving them good intelligence. They could have listened to the 100 weapons inspectors who were on the ground and had access to wherever they wanted in Iraq. b, 21b, 21Instead they listened to decade old intelligence and con men who were grubbing for money and power. b, 21b, 21It was a conscious decision, and meets my definition of lying.
I didn't like this thread at the start because it seemed like a lot of piling on and lets see if we can find the most outrageous wingnut and mock him. b, 21b, 21But I see a scary new trend.b, 21b, 21Right wingers congratulating Obama and declaring that MLK's dream is now fulfilled an we are no longer a racist society. b, 21b, 21I am not sure how to respond in a way that would get through to them or to someone who is persuaded by them.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Sorry, Bush and Co. did not lie about Iraq's WMD. U.S. intelligence were cluseless, and the White House repeated what they said but without the cavets. On Al Qaeda, that's where the White House was full of shit themselves. Several hundred Al Qaeda fighters did flee Afghanistan after the U.S. invasion, but they want to join Ansar al-Islam in Kurdistan where Baghdad had no say. The terrorist Zarqawi did enter Iraq pre-invasion, and the authorities knew, but Zarqawi was NOT Al Qaeda. He was in fact, a rival who successfully turned the Iraq war into his path to jihad stardom. If the U.S. had not planned on invading Iraq, Zarqawi would not have been there. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21US Intelligence was not clueless. b, 21b, 21They chose to use bad intelligence over good intelligence. They could have listened to Amb. Wilson who was giving them good intelligence. They could have listened to the 100 weapons inspectors who were on the ground and had access to wherever they wanted in Iraq. b, 21b, 21Instead they listened to decade old intelligence and con men who were grubbing for money and power. b, 21b, 21It was a conscious decision, and meets my definition of lying. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21When it came to Iraq and WMD, the majority of U.S. intelligence had a preconception that Saddam would lie and hide everything and that he must've restarted his weapons program after weapons inspectors left in the 90s. This was a bias, not lying on purpose. b, 21b, 21When it came to Iraq and Al Qaeda and terrorism, the majority of U.S. intelligence were skepitcal and didn't believe there was a working relationship.b, 21b, 21The White House believed anything bad about Iraq, no matter what the source. b, 21b, 21People's conceptions and world views shape how they see things. That's not a concscious act of lying or not.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Sorry, Bush and Co. did not lie about Iraq's WMD. U.S. intelligence were cluseless, and the White House repeated what they said but without the cavets. On Al Qaeda, that's where the White House was full of shit themselves. Several hundred Al Qaeda fighters did flee Afghanistan after the U.S. invasion, but they want to join Ansar al-Islam in Kurdistan where Baghdad had no say. The terrorist Zarqawi did enter Iraq pre-invasion, and the authorities knew, but Zarqawi was NOT Al Qaeda. He was in fact, a rival who successfully turned the Iraq war into his path to jihad stardom. If the U.S. had not planned on invading Iraq, Zarqawi would not have been there. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21US Intelligence was not clueless. b, 21b, 21They chose to use bad intelligence over good intelligence. They could have listened to Amb. Wilson who was giving them good intelligence. They could have listened to the 100 weapons inspectors who were on the ground and had access to wherever they wanted in Iraq. b, 21b, 21Instead they listened to decade old intelligence and con men who were grubbing for money and power. b, 21b, 21It was a conscious decision, and meets my definition of lying. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21When it came to Iraq and WMD, the majority of U.S. intelligence had a preconception that Saddam would lie and hide everything and that he must've restarted his weapons program after weapons inspectors left in the 90s. This was a bias, not lying on purpose. b, 21b, 21When it came to Iraq and Al Qaeda and terrorism, the majority of U.S. intelligence were skepitcal and didn't believe there was a working relationship.b, 21b, 21The White House believed anything bad about Iraq, no matter what the source. b, 21b, 21People's conceptions and world views shape how they see things. That's not a concscious act of lying or not. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21To me, choosing to believe bad intelligence over good intelligence, because it fits your world view, is lying. b, 21b, 21On just the nuclear issue, which we heard Rice, Cheney, Powell and Bush hammer on is indicative of the lies.b, 21b, 21To take uranium ore (yellow cake from Niger) and convert it into bomb grade uranium requires a large scale industrial operation. Not something that can be easily hidden. b, 21b, 21To ignore the evidence that there was no large scale nuclear program and to continue to talk about mushroom clouds and to include talk of them soon getting a bomb in the SotU is the equivalent of lying. To me.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Newsflash: The US invaded Iraq without authorisation of the UN and under the use of false military intel. The Bush administration had lied and tricked your country into a military conflict for which there was no pressing reason whatsoever. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq and Saddam was surpressing the Islamic Supremacists in his country. No rocket science would have been needed to predict what happened once Saddam was removed... do you really believe this garbage you're spreading around?b, 21b, 21(edit: I was talking to Vitamin here...) b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21and lets not forget the cherry on top. the same people that funded and organised the OG mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and also armed and supported Saddam in the 80s, where the same people who were given the job of getting rid them...... thats the ultimate hustle right there.... it reminds me of this shonky glassier years ago that would send kids to smash store front windows and then walk past the next day and offer his services to the business while saying shit like 'someone needs to do something about those young vandals..." hehehehe
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21The 'blame game' is already jumping off...check out this clip, the fact that it's from Fox News is img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/melt.gif" alt="" 21b, 21b, 21
b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21the fact that a governor and potential vp doesnt know africa is a continent is so f*cking disgusting i dont even know what to think. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21It's possible that the guy who said she doesn't know was wrong about what she knows. b, 21Sounded to me like he was relating 3rd hand information. b, 21b, 21Which doesn't mean that the potential vp wasn't "so f*cking disgusting i dont even know what to think."
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21The 'blame game' is already jumping off...check out this clip, the fact that it's from Fox News is img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/melt.gif" alt="" 21b, 21b, 21
b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21the fact that a governor and potential vp doesnt know africa is a continent is so f*cking disgusting i dont even know what to think. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21I was thinking about this morning and it blew me away. We can have one of THE most electrifying speakers our generation may see who helped run one of THE best campaign's ever. Survive some next level mud-slinging, beat an incredible opponent (Hilary), out perform McCain through 3 extensive town halls, barely drop a gaffe.....b, 21b, 21just so he can a 50/50 chance of winning against a complete dumbfuck.b, 21b, 21actually, i'm glad fox is shitting on her-it's 100% deserved.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Newsflash: The US invaded Iraq without authorisation of the UNb, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21don't take this the wrong way, and i don't support the war or invasion of iraqb, 21BUT THIS IS AMERICA BATCH b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21That's the spirit... I guess.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Newsflash: The US invaded Iraq without authorisation of the UNb, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21don't take this the wrong way, and i don't support the war or invasion of iraqb, 21BUT THIS IS AMERICA BATCH b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21That's the spirit... I guess. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21As HC has pointed out, Obama will (most likely) take the attitude.
are fools already doubting the guy? It hasn't even been 48 hours.b, 21b, 21edit: He will take "this is America spirit" but not co-opted bullshit that's been running wild these last 8 years.
Lets hope all the conservative, rich ass, right wingers dont try and pull some shit like they are doing to Evo Morales in Bolivia, and start calling for the seccession of certain states (I noticed it was really only a handful of Southern states that McCain won....hhhmmmmm)..... b, 21b, 21But on the real Obama must ensure he controls as much of the money as possible or else he's screwed...
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21are fools already doubting the guy? It hasn't even been 48 hours.b, 21b, 21edit: He will take "this is America spirit" but not co-opted bullshit that's been running wild these last 8 years. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21These are things I believed 72 hours ago and 13 months ago. b, 21b, 21He will not give up the presidential powers that Bush has created.b, 21b, 21He will not be soft on using American military power around the world. b, 21b, 21He will be friendly to corporations. b, 21b, 21He will be pro-free trade.
b, 21I posted this in the Russian Missiles thread, but as this has also become a foreign policy thread, what the hey. b, 21b, 21/font1
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21"We have told our partners more than once that we want positive cooperation, we want to act together to combat common threats, that we want to act together. But they, unfortunately, don't want to listen to us."b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21"This is America BATCH" needs to change, and Medvedev, [i]among others/i1, is hoping it will with Obama. Not really fussed about whether or not America goes to the UN for approval, as they haven't in the past, but would prefer they think things through. Just a tad.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21To the great credit of Republicans, none that I know have said the election was stolen because of ACORN--which it obviously wasn't--but none of this[/b] stopped Dems in 2000 and 2004 from making the same argument. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21none of what? b, 21b, 21"it's surprising that Republicans not claiming a 2008 election was stolen didn't prevent the Democractic claims of election theft 4 and 8 years earlier"? b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21That grammar was all mixed up. My point is that when Democrats lost in 2004 (2000 gets a pass because it was so twilight zone), many claimed it was stolen, even though Kerry wouldn't even press the case. As far as I know, Republican bloggers, writers partisans etc. are not claiming ACORN stole the election. BTW I think Obama won fair and square, even though it is very dangerous to combine early voting and ACORN's voter registration model which seems to tacitly encourage fraud among their canvassers. [/b]b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21That last sentence seems to imply that ACORN registered voters at the request of the Obama campaign. As far as I know there is no evidence to support this. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Obama donated acorn $800,000 for get out the vote operations and then lied about it. There isn't any real reason why you should know this though since the media barely covered it.
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