Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121You are acting a little weird. If you're mad, why don't you say why[/b] you're mad? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121cause i think it sucks that people feel the need to sue a country for something that happened such a long time ago and post/brag about it on soulstrut. i smell hatred and prejudice. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I'll pass that along to the holocaust survivors that haven't died yet.b,121Don't worry though. In a couple of years they'll all be gone and you can get things back to "normal".... b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121dude!!! i know you're old and stuff... but please leave me alone! you sound like a little baby. i never said anything about the holocaust. why do you want to make me sound like a nazi? b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^b,121HATES OLD PEOPLE TOO....
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I don't think he ever actually implied that the current German government has Nazi ties or are Nazis, if that's what you're upset about? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121no. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Then what's the issue? Against giving families back some percentage of what was stolen from them by the Nazis? b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121You have no clue what you are talking about. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121He's not talking about anything. He's asking you a question.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121You are acting a little weird. If you're mad, why don't you say why[/b] you're mad? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121cause i think it sucks that people feel the need to sue a country for something that happened such a long time ago and post/brag about it on soulstrut. i smell hatred and prejudice. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121The holocaust wasn't that long ago and by your reasoning any country that has committed such atrocities need only wait until all the survivors have died to avoid responsibility. That's just fucked up. The effects of atrocities like this don't end with the death of the first generation. They have a lasting effect.
I definitely don't want to side with Grope or anything, but I have to say that I find the whole "Germany came through, how much $$$ is the building worth" attitude pretty tactless. Having lost my grandfather in WWII, I doubt I would be thinking about monetary gain in a situation like this, but perhaps that's just me.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I definitely don't want to side with Grope or anything, but I have to say that I find the whole "Germany came through, how much $$$ is the building worth" attitude pretty tactless. Having lost my grandfather in WWII, I doubt I would be thinking about monetary gain in a situation like this, but perhaps that's just me. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I definitely don't want to side with Grope or anything, but I have to say that I find the whole "Germany came through, how much $$$ is the building worth" attitude pretty tactless. Having lost my grandfather in WWII, I doubt I would be thinking about monetary gain in a situation like this, but perhaps that's just me. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121BINGO!
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I definitely don't want to side with Grope or anything, but I have to say that I find the whole "Germany came through, how much $$$ is the building worth" attitude pretty tactless. Having lost my grandfather in WWII, I doubt I would be thinking about monetary gain in a situation like this, but perhaps that's just me. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Exactly, and that's why I consider asking about "property valuation" somewhat tactless.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I definitely don't want to side with Grope or anything, but I have to say that I find the whole "Germany came through, how much $$$ is the building worth" attitude pretty tactless. Having lost my grandfather in WWII, I doubt I would be thinking about monetary gain in a situation like this, but perhaps that's just me. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Exactly, and that's why I consider asking about "property valuation" somewhat tactless. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121 /font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Are there any property valuation sights akin to Zillow that cover German properties?b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1 b,121b,121So what if this was asked outside the context of WW2?
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I definitely don't want to side with Grope or anything, but I have to say that I find the whole "Germany came through, how much $$$ is the building worth" attitude pretty tactless. Having lost my grandfather in WWII, I doubt I would be thinking about monetary gain in a situation like this, but perhaps that's just me. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Exactly, and that's why I consider asking about "property valuation" somewhat tactless. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121while the initial statement was indeed a bit tactless, I do think the value question is valid, but only one amongst many. And to all Germans - and all other people - in this thread who think that WW2 was "long ago", you clearly don't know what you are talking about. This whole thing is still with us and we can/shall never forget. While genocides happened and happen everywhere in the world, this hitler fusker took it to the next level. How people can downplay it just cause only their grandparents were affected firsthand is beyond comprehension. This shit still plays into families and everydaylife. And yes, noone of my generation had a thing to do with it, but still I know what my Grandpa did and how other Grandparents suffered. So basically a big middlefinger to all you "4gettaz"...u can hate me now.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121b,121It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Exactly, and that's why I consider asking about "property valuation" somewhat tactless. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121 /font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Are there any property valuation sights akin to Zillow that cover German properties?b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1 b,121b,121So what if this was asked outside the context of WW2? b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Why should I even consider that? Context is highly relevant here. All I'm saying is that if I was getting back something that was stolen from my family under similar circumstances, I wouldn't be publicly asking about "value" the very same day I found out about it. b,121b,121But yeah, pretending that WW2 is ancient history is way worse than this, so I'm done here.
It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121i just wrote a long post about some other things, but the whole thing got deleted. b,121b,121aaaaaaaanyway....b,121you don't quite get it. b,121b,121b,121i'm too tired to explain. just one thing... millions of people who had nothing to do with nazi germany were forced to leave their home after the war without anything left. my grandmother was raped by russian soldiers before she got kicked out of the building. she cannot talk about it and would not dare to go back to her old home in poland. she's scared when she sees old pictures on tv and starts to cry when she thinks about her life. her brother was sold, because the family had nothing to eat. she met my grandfather again by accident in germany after the war. my grandfather had to start from scratch and worked until he dropped dead. my whole family was against the nazi regime. b,121b,121why is everyone still so keen on sueing this country for our damn past? i mean do so, but please understand that it's something that seems very harsh to people who were contemporary witnesses outside of the nazi party or being a soldier. there were many german victims as well. what can they ask for? i guess forgiveness?!b,121b,121i think it's time to get over it and start something new. there are german people who are trying to sue poland and the czech republic for stealing their houses after the war. but what's the use??? it's a different country and these are different times. that's just my opinion anyway. i'm quite happy that my grandmother isn't bitter or talks about going to poland to get back her hous and stuff. she's too old, she's gone through too much. and she doesn't have bad feeling about polish or russian people anymore. which is totally cool, i think.b,121b,121i don't feel guilty for the nazi regime or the holocaust personally! i know it's hard to understand from your point of view. but that's just the way it is. i still know about germany's past and understand that reparations are part of the whole 'losing the war' thing. i think it's sad that nowadays everyone can sue germany personally, but that's what happened and i guess some people really won't accept any other deals. that's fine. b,121b,121i know about germays past. i know about the holocaust. i had to deal with this in real life! i had to study these things and at my high school, we had to talk to victims and vistit concentration camps. i've been on exchange with french high school students and we've been to Verdun together. I still think it's great how good we got along. i think it's one of the best examples of forgiveness and peace. after all things that have happened, it felt great to be so close. we have been at war two/three generations ago. that's the way to go!b,121b,121i still think it's right to pay reparations. don't get me wrong. if that's what you need... go ahead. i just think it's crazy to brag about your dumbass reparation needs on a website and ask your nazi teuton friends for help. b,121b,121Sweep around your own backdoor. If you know what I mean. you are from america? don't even start this! b,121b,121b,121one more thing. it's not easy to write in english all the time. i'm not sitting here being mad. it's damn hard to explain myself in a decent matter. i guess you never really thought about that before.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I still think it's great how good we got along. i think it's one of the best examples of forgiveness and peace. after all things that have happened, it felt great to be so close. we have been at war two/three generations ago. that's the way to go!b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121cosine on this. But never forget where you are comin from either. And yes, this thread is bizarre on many levels, like the whole underlying problem.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I definitely don't want to side with Grope or anything, but I have to say that I find the whole "Germany came through, how much $$$ is the building worth" attitude pretty tactless. Having lost my grandfather in WWII, I doubt I would be thinking about monetary gain in a situation like this, but perhaps that's just me. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121It's not about monetary "gain".b,121It's about restoration of stolen property. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Exactly, and that's why I consider asking about "property valuation" somewhat tactless. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121while the initial statement was indeed a bit tactless, I do think the value question is valid, but only one amongst many. And to all Germans - and all other people - in this thread who think that WW2 was "long ago", you clearly don't know what you are talking about. This whole thing is still with us and we can/shall never forget. While genocides happened and happen everywhere in the world, this hitler fusker took it to the next level. How people can downplay it just cause only their grandparents were affected firsthand is beyond comprehension. This shit still plays into families and everydaylife. And yes, noone of my generation had a thing to do with it, but still I know what my Grandpa did and how other Grandparents suffered. So basically a big middlefinger to all you "4gettaz"...u can hate me now. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121in deutsch... ich verstehe kein wort von dem was du da sagst. hat dir das dein geschichtslehrer beigebracht? ich weiss ganz genau wor??ber ich rede. sch??ttelst du fremden die hand mit den gedanken, dass du ein deutscher bist? willkommen im jah,12008. fang an zu leben. ich glaube v??lkerverst??ndigung klappt auch ohne geschichtsunterricht. schon dass du "hitler fusker" schreibst zeigt mir, dass dein niveau hauptschule ist. du kommst nicht damit klar. denk mal in ruhe dr??ber nach! musst ja nichts verneinen. aber das recht auf ein leben ausserhalb des deutschsein hast du schon. bringt doch nichts wenn du dich brandmarkst!b,121b,121ich habe keine lust mit dem hintergedanken "meine vergangenheit in nazideutschland" herumzulaufen. es gibt ja hoffentlich noch mehr als die lehre der vergangenheit. ich hoffe nur du erziehst deine kinder nicht so. muss nicht sein! geschichtsunterricht? ja! ethik? ja! vergangenheitsbew??ltigung? ja! damit klar kommen? hoffentlich.
Moment J*n,b,121b,121ich wusste, dass es dazu kommen w??rde, ok, dann auf deutsch. b,121b,121Ich denke, du verstehst sehr gut, was ich sage. Dass mein Niveau "Hauptschule" sein soll, bloss, weil ich ein hier auf dieser Webseite sehr oft verwendets Synonym gebrauche (willkommen in 2008!) mal aussen vor: ich brauche kein Recht "auf ein leben" ausserhalb des deutschseins. In erster linie bin ich nun mal deutscher und dann europ??er und dann welt- und dann universumsb??rger. oder andersherum, wie dus haben willst. wir sind nunmal auch deutsche. du hast vielleicht keine lust, mit "deiner vergangenheit in nazideutschland" herumzulaufen. Aber sie ist ein teil von dir, sonst h??ttest du nicht die Geschichte deiner Grosseltern erw??hnt. Genau das meine ich. f??r mich hat das nichts mit brandmarken zu tun. b,121"geschichtsunterricht? ja! ethik? ja! vergangenheitsbew??ltigung? ja! damit klar kommen? hoffentlich." - kann ich so unterschreiben. mir ging es lediglich darum, dass man das Geschehen niemals vergessen darf, das tun leider einige und das kann fatale Folgen haben, und das kann ich nicht nachvollziehen. Es ging mir nicht darum, dass ich auf ewig eine Grundschuld trage und immer in erster linie der deutsche bin. hoffe, das wird jetzt einigermassen klar.
Germany and Austria have chosen to pay reparations to holocaust survivors. b,121Those reparations are based not on the loss of life, but on loss of real property. b,121Dr Wu is making a claim based on guide lines that come from German law. b,121b,121The USA did much the same recently with survivors of US WWII concentration camps. b,121I think the USA chose to pay each living survivor a token a sum. b,121b,121I fully support paying reparations to the surviving families of USA slavery. Reparations should also be paid to families who were forced to sell or abandon land and business in this country. b,121b,121I am not holding my breath waiting for Russia to pay reparations for Stalins atrocities. b,121
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Moment J*n,b,121b,121ich wusste, dass es dazu kommen w??rde, ok, dann auf deutsch. b,121b,121Ich denke, du verstehst sehr gut, was ich sage. Dass mein Niveau "Hauptschule" sein soll, bloss, weil ich ein hier auf dieser Webseite sehr oft verwendets Synonym gebrauche (willkommen in 2008!) mal aussen vor: ich brauche kein Recht "auf ein leben" ausserhalb des deutschseins. In erster linie bin ich nun mal deutscher und dann europ??er und dann welt- und dann universumsb??rger. oder andersherum, wie dus haben willst. wir sind nunmal auch deutsche. du hast vielleicht keine lust, mit "deiner vergangenheit in nazideutschland" herumzulaufen. Aber sie ist ein teil von dir, sonst h??ttest du nicht die Geschichte deiner Grosseltern erw??hnt. Genau das meine ich. f??r mich hat das nichts mit brandmarken zu tun. b,121"geschichtsunterricht? ja! ethik? ja! vergangenheitsbew??ltigung? ja! damit klar kommen? hoffentlich." - kann ich so unterschreiben. mir ging es lediglich darum, dass man das Geschehen niemals vergessen darf, das tun leider einige und das kann fatale Folgen haben, und das kann ich nicht nachvollziehen. Es ging mir nicht darum, dass ich auf ewig eine Grundschuld trage und immer in erster linie der deutsche bin. hoffe, das wird jetzt einigermassen klar. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121weder ich noch sonst jemand in meiner familie f??hlt sich als deutsch... ich bin froh hier zu leben, aber eine aversion gegen nationalit??ten besteht. es gibt viele schlechte dinge in europa und der EU. aber mich freut es, dass man sich von den nationalit??ten etwas freisprichen kann. zumindest verstehe ich die EU so. die verantwortlichen wohl eher weniger. aber ich denke die folgenden generationen werden mit einem anderen bewusstsein aufwachsen. (hoffentlich)b,121b,121ich f??hle mich tats??chlich nicht als "deutscher". obwohl ich nat??rlich die deutsche vergangenheit vollkommen als meine anerkenne. das macht mich aber eher st??rker. ich finde die deutschen stellen sich bei der vergangenheitsbew??ltigung gut an. ich glaube die meisten anderen regierungen auf der welt w??rden ganz anders damit umgehen.b,121 ins bett
Alles klar. Ein ander mal, im realen leben bei einem (deutschen oderwasauchimmer) bier k??nnen wir ja nochmal quatschen. bin n??chste woche in amsterdam, wenn de bock hast...ansonsten erstmal gute nacht
Quote:/font1h,121b,121By February 1999, the German government, now led by Schr??der, announced plans to pay reparations to victims of Nazi atrocities from funds provided by some of the country's largest companies. By agreeing to set up a fund that acknowledges responsibility for profiting from slave labor, the German government hopes to end the various lawsuits filed on behalf of Holocaust victims suing dozens of German firms and banks for damages. Though the magnitude of the German fund has yet to be specified, it is expected to amount to $1.7 billion, with a dozen major German businesses???including Deutsche Bank, Daimler-Benz, Volkswagen, and Siemens???participating. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121i think it didn't work out. they couldn't end the various lawsuits filed on behalf of Holocaust victims. on the contrary! in a recent decision, an italian court ruled that civil actions can be taken against germany. which would be a desaster for this country. don't you think?
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121"vergangenheitsbew??ltigung" you guys have some fusking long words! What does that one mean?? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121"to cope with the past" b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121wow
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Alles klar. Ein ander mal, im realen leben bei einem (deutschen oderwasauchimmer) bier k??nnen wir ja nochmal quatschen. bin n??chste woche in amsterdam, wenn de bock hast...ansonsten erstmal gute nacht b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121amsterdam? im november... utrecht
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