Lets Talk about the MAFIA/La Cosa Nostra

kala

i heard they bank rolled the UBB seriesb,121b,121i just read this book and it was good b,121a flea market dollar find and a real page turnerb,121b,121http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl/9780767911290.htmlb,121b,121if you grew up in the NY/NJ area I know you got storiesb,121b,121 * Bonannob,121 * Colombob,121 * Gambinob,121 * Genoveseb,121 * Luccheseb,121b,121whoose your paisano?

The Raise Up

I can't wait for an international release of Gomorra!b,121b,121 b,121b,121Trailer (nsfw) looks great and reviews have been very positive as well.

Rockadelic

Quote:h,121b,121b,121if you grew up in the NY/NJ area I know you got storiesb,121b,121 b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121No real grisly tales here just my memories of my very removed brushes with some ???friends of theirs???.....b,121b,121My grandmother divorced her husband in North Carolina in the late 40???s and remarried a street level dude from Brooklyn named Giuseppe ???Joe??? Iconetti. The family(my Mom and her sister) all moved to Flatbush & 39th and I spent lots of time there in the 60???s???..I have vivid memories of Christmas at my grandparents brownstone in which my Grandpa Joe???s mother lived downstairs???.she was a large Sicilian woman with lots of facial hair and was just called ???Mom??? by everyone in the neighborhood. On Christmas Eve and Day there would be lots of visitors in and out of the house. Well dressed Italian men that I had seen hanging out at the corner ???Candy Store??? all stopping by with a bottle, food or gifts. ???Mom??? would cook all day and night and the food was amazing. She made these honey dipped fried dough pastries that were incredible. Never heard any dirt or saw any of these guys be anything but gentlemen, but it was a scene right out of Goodfellas. The thing I???ll never forget is the silver X-Mas tree with all blue balls and the tri-color light that would rotate shining green/yellow/red light on it all night long. The Dean Martin X-Mas LP was on 24/7. Later in life I learned that my father hung out with one of the guys named ???Joey Bananas??????.apparently this guy got a 3 cent kickback for every banana that came into the NYC port???.and still does til this day. Grandpa Joe died about 3 years ago at the age of 90???..two years earlier he was busted for running a scam at the Senior Citizens home where he took cash up front for a trip to Vegas and just kept the money.

behemoth

i have a friend who claims he is directly related to Crazy Joe Gallo. i have yet to prove this!!!

Rockadelic

Quote:h,121b,121i have a friend who claims he is directly related to Crazy Joe Gallo. i have yet to prove this!!! b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121When I was in the 4th grade I had a fight with a kid on the playground and after beating him pretty good he jumped up and said "My father's in the Mafia and I'm going to have you and your family killed"b,121b,121I went home scared shitless and apparently looked pretty upset at the dinner table that night.....my folks asked me what was wrong and I broke down and admitted that I had basically signed the death warrant of my entire family.b,121b,121My Dad laughed and said "Guys in the Mafia don't ever say they're in the Mafia...and if that kid's dad really is, and he goes home and tells him what he said to you...he'll get a better ass kicking than what you gave him".

Cosmo

Quote:h,121b,121b,121b,121My Dad laughed and said "Guys in the Mafia don't ever say they're in the Mafia...and if that kid's dad really is, and he goes home and tells him what he said to you...he'll get a better ass kicking than what you gave him". b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121Game set match. You don't really talk about this shit.

PATX

Life is like the Hells Angels....b,121 Boston. They used to run Boston from Federal Hill. By now it's probably been outsourced to China though.

PATX

I'm seeing Pizza Hut banner ads. Are they trying to gain some cred or something and they bought keyword: cosa nostra?

pj4533

Quote:h,121b,121Life is like the Hells Angels....b,121 Boston. They used to run Boston from Federal Hill. By now it's probably been outsourced to China though. b,121b,121h,121

b,121 Boston was better access to Ty J's records.b,121b,121 b/w

pjl2000xl

Quote:h,121b,121i have a friend who claims he is directly related to Crazy Joe Gallo. i have yet to prove this!!! b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121My mom actually went out with Joe Gallo on a few dates when she was young. Also out here in Staten Island you have a lot of mafia landmarks like paul castellano's house and the house where the godfather was filmed. My grandparents have lots of mafia run in stories and saw some crazy shit go down out here.

nzshadow

paging JonElove...

Plantweed

Always wondered who ran Albany in 20th century. Have read the Genovese and the Calabrese, but I wonder if it just wasn't the Irish Democratic machine.

behemoth

Quote:h,121b,121

Quote:h,121b,121b,121b,121My Dad laughed and said "Guys in the Mafia don't ever say they're in the Mafia...and if that kid's dad really is, and he goes home and tells him what he said to you...he'll get a better ass kicking than what you gave him". b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121Game set match. You don't really talk about this shit. b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121well the only reason i kind of believe him is that he never said "i have family in the mob". he just said "Crazy Joe Gallo was in the family"....b,121b,121and i have seen some of his family members all dappered out so it's more like 50/50!

The-gaffler

when i was 17 i dj'ed an event "Crazy Legs" Richard Col??n was at.

SteadyMurphy

batmon

One of the grandsons of the Genovese Drug Store went to my College.b,121b,121Dude was prick and had the country dudes shook like he had a hitmen on speed-dial and shit. b,121b,121I dont care who the fusk u are kid. Ill punch you dead in the face, if you think u can muscle up w/ me.

PATX

Quote:h,121b,121had the country dudes shook like he had a hitmen on speed-dialb,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121Did you write this? Can I use it? It's GOLD!

funky16corners

When my wife and I were first going out we went to the funeral of the mother of a family friend. Afterward there was a get together at the daughter's house. We're all sitting outside at picnic tables, and when my wife got up I noticed that this big fat guy at the other end of the table happened to have a gun strapped to his ankle. No way this guy was a cop, I think.b,121I run it past my Italian mother-in-law who confirmed my suspicions, mentioning how this guy always had the family down to the San Gennaro Fest in NYC, prime parking, no waiting etc etc etc....

Strider79it

b,121it has never been bigger than what it is now....... you may says it rules countriesb,121b,121I cosign on the coolness of gomorra, if you know Napoli at least

phongone

The Camorra di Naples (a.k.a "the system") makes the American mafia look like the Crips. Here's an interview from vice on the author of the Gamorra book.b,121b,121b,121http://www.viceland.com/int/v15n8/htdocs/taking-on-italian-mafia-144.phpb,121 b,121Roberto Saviano is the 29-year-old author of Gomorrah, the international best seller that, through a mixture of narrative and investigative journalism, exposes the workings of the most powerful, and least known, of the Italian Mafias: the Camorra of Naples. b,121b,121Over the last 30 years, the Camorra has grown into an all-pervasive, seemingly undefeatable network of vicious killers, loons, and businessmen whose operations account for slightly less than 10 percent of Italy???s gross national product. His book is a powerful indictment of the ???System??? (as it???s called by its members) and a shocking account of the strength and ferocity of the Southern Italian crime syndicates. Saviano???s success, and his policy of openly stating the names and activities of the members of the Camorra, have made him an obvious target for assassination. He has been living with a 24-hour escort of three policemen who never leave his side for almost three years.b,121b,121Recently, during the largest-ever anti-Mafia trial in Italian history, the ???Spartacus trial,??? the defense attorney read a 60-page letter penned by the suspects that openly accused Saviano, the public attorney, and a local journalist of trying to influence the court???s decision. Saviano himself has called the letter ???a call to arms... a declaration that states that, were they to be indicted, we are to be held responsible.??? In response to this declaration, Saviano came out of hiding to denounce the Camorra once more, on national television. b,121b,121The day after his appearance on the screens of all Italian living rooms, we met with him for an interview. As we entered the lobby of the drab Milan hotel where we had planned to rendezvous, we were startled by a middle-aged man who quietly appeared at our side, leaned toward us, and asked in a barely audible whisper, ???Are you here for Saviano???? We were taken to an undergound room without windows where our bags were opened and checked. Finally, Saviano himself entered the room, where we sat down, drank a glass of water, and chatted for a couple of hours about the Mafia???s power, his book, and his life. b,121b,121Vice: If you were to explain the Camorra to someone who knew nothing about it, what would you say?b,121b,121Roberto Saviano: The Camorra is a criminal and entrepreneurial economic organization based in Campania, the region surrounding Naples. I want to stress the entrepreneurial aspect of this organization because Italian organized crime is often viewed romantically, with stories of bandits on the run and honor codes. In reality, these are criminal cartels that do business in every economic sphere, especially in the legal ones, such as textiles, transport, tourism, construction, and waste management. Only after all of that come cocaine, heroin, and extortion. The Camorra is also one of the least-studied crime cartels, even if it is the Italian Mafia that has the largest number of affiliates and that has generated the largest number of deaths. Together with the Calabrian ???Ndrangheta, another poorly visible Mafia, it???s probably the number-one criminal emergency in Europe. b,121b,121Exactly how powerful is the Camorra? b,121b,121The net turnover of the three Italian Mafias???the Camorra in Campania, the ???Ndrangheta in Calabria, and the Cosa Nostra in Sicily???is something like $230 billion per year. That???s just their direct business. If you add all the other aspects, you could say they are linked to around $800 billion annually. Consider the $230 billion figure. The FIAT group, Italy???s largest industrial group, has a turnover of around $80 billion a year. In other words, the Mafia is the single largest Italian economy, and one of the largest in Europe. In terms of violent crimes, if you add the number of deaths directly linked to the Mafia in the past 30 years of Italian history, only in the three regions of Sicily, Campania, and Calabria, you can estimate it at approximately 10,000. That???s more than those killed in Gaza in the last intifada. It???s a war.b,121b,121In your book you do a great job of explaining the international dimension of the Camorra. But the Mafia is seen as something quintessentially Italian. How does that work?b,121b,121It???s the most annoying stereotype for Italians overseas???the fact that we???re automatically connected to the Mafia. Of course, it???s idiotic. But it is true that the criminal aspect of these organizations was born in Southern Italy. It is there that they begin to extract the first capital, to organize their eventual hideouts, to flesh out their hierarchies. But that???s not where they make money. It???d be impossible. How can you make that kind of money in a poor territory, with 40 percent unemployment? They use the South as a gold mine. They build their empires there by fraudulently channeling EU funds; they use it as a base to stockpile huge quantities of drugs???most of the coke that comes to Europe from Latin America or Africa stops in Southern Italy. From there, it is sent to Milan, Rome, Paris, London, Marseille, and Bonn. This capacity to use Southern Italy as a launching pad for the rest of the world is one of their greatest strengths.b,121b,121Do they also reach America?b,121b,121Italian-American Mafias are very weak. Even if the Italian families want to keep that aspect alive, today it???s the Italians themselves who go to America to invest, often with the mediation of the Albanian and Nigerian Mafias???the ones that are structurally closest to the Italians. That???s the funny part: The Italian Mafia has a strong international appeal. Most of the world???s Mafias, besides maybe the Russian and the Chinese, are inspired by it.b,121b,121Speaking of the Mafia???s international appeal, can you tell me what happened in Helsinki recently?b,121b,121I went to this huge bookshop to present my book, and it was packed. But my book had only come out the day before, so I knew they couldn???t have been there for me. I asked my publisher, who reassured me they were all my crowd. And then I discovered why. When the host announced me, he said, ???Please welcome Roberto Soprano!??? I thought he was kidding, but he was just confused. The Sopranos was a huge success in Scandinavia, and all those people thought I had written what the Washington Post defined as ???the book about the real, mean Sopranos.??? You know, the character Tony Soprano is originally from Campania. b,121b,121Are the three Mafias very different from each other?b,121b,121Cosa Nostra, the Sicilian mafia, is the most well known mainly because of films and because they have killed many important public figures, like Judge Falcone. The ???Ndrangheta is a very powerful organization, but nobody knows much about it, because it???s based on blood ties. You can???t become an affiliate if you aren???t related. Plus, there???s very few of them, and they have very few informers.b,121b,121And the Camorra?b,121b,121The Camorra, on the other hand, is the most porous. You can enter it even if you???re unrelated. Even if you have parents in law enforcement. The entry to the clan is completely liberalized. They permit the creation of groups. I mean, if you and I were to go to Naples, we could create our own group, do our own extortion, coordinate our own trafficking. If we became a nuisance, they might kill us. Or if we became powerful enough, we might make allies. Maybe we???d enter another, bigger group. Or we might declare war on them. This is why it???s such a bloody organization: They can???t exist without armed encounters. During their war of Secondigliano, where different clans were fighting one another, there was a tally of four or five murders a day. In those few months, there were more deaths in the area of Secondiglia no than in Baghdad. b,121b,121But the different Mafias work together?b,121b,121Yes, they are allied. But these names are false: The Sicilian Mafia is actually called Cosa Nostra, but the ???Ndrangheta is called Cosa Nuova, the New Thing. And the Camorra is simply known as the System. Nobody inside the organizations calls them by their widespread names. Those are names for cops and journalists. However, even if they work together, they don???t exactly love each other. The Camorra looks down on the Cosa Nostra, because they made the mistake of murdering celebrities. The ???idiocy of the Corleone??? is how they define it. They see it as an overrated Mafia. They have always leaned toward the right-wing parties for support, and the anti-Mafia commission is traditionally left-wing. The ???Ndrangheta and the Camorra look left, making it very hard to talk about them.b,121b,121It seems that the three Mafias do their business and deal with their public perception in different ways, and that the Camorra is the most media-savvy.b,121b,121The famous Camorrista Pasquale Galasso, during his trial in front of the anti-Mafia commission, when asked why they had never killed enemy judges or lawyers, replied, ???Because we don???t need to kill. We prefer to delegitimize.??? They know that if you kill public figures, you play the game of those who want you arrested, but if you delegitimize them, if you remove their ability to hurt you by destroying their career or reputation, you use the perfect democratic tool. You use libel. They have also killed at times, but only figures that they thought they could get away with, like Giancarlo Siani, a young freelance reporter. And in any case, the relationship between the Mafia, politics, and the media is very complicated. b,121b,121Why?b,121b,121In the States, or in other countries, there is no way you could be a politician who has publicly known ties to organized crime. In Italy, it???s the norm. In fact, politicians often do their best to show that they can work with the Mafia, because it???s seen, in many circles, as something positive. If everybody knows you have ties with the System, they know you???ll be able to get the right contracts, to make things happen, and that those works won???t be sabotaged. The Mafia makes administrations more effective. It is an economic lubricant.b,121b,121But if it???s so intertwined with the state and the law, isn???t it sort of invincible?b,121b,121For sure. We won???t see the end of organized crime. It will take many generations, if it is ever to happen. Italy can???t afford to lose $230 billion worth of business. It would collapse. Europe would collapse. The only way to fight it is to organize the downfall of a specific family. Remember, there isn???t one boss who won???t end up killed or in jail. It always happens. So the authorities can stop one family. Like the Corleones. But after them there will be another and then another. It???s just fighting the symptoms. Funnily enough, this constant changing of the guard makes the System work better. If they didn???t live in this culture of death, they would be easily defeatable: It???d be a monopoly, which makes prices rise, and which creates publicly despised, all-powerful bosses. Instead, the fact that they kill each other and are in competition with one another keeps the prices lower, allows for diversified investments, and keeps the authorities guessing. Like in any form of capitalism, monopolies destroy economies. b,121b,121Is there a way to change things?b,121b,121You would need to attack the financial-economic side. You???d need to change capitalism. As long as contracts end up in the hands of those who offer the job in the quickest, cheapest way, they will always win. Because they bend rules. Because they have illegal incomes, which they use to irrigate their other companies, and because they can pressure politicians. Think of the case of the clan of the Casalesi. They opened some illegal dumps outside Aversa, which they filled with garbage and toxic waste. Then, word comes around that the government is building a motorway. They pressure the politicians into building it over their dumps. Then they cover the dumps in cement, they sell the land to the government, and, cherry on top, they land the contract to build the motorway. That???s three highly lucrative deals. No straight entrepreneur could do something like that.b,121b,121You often mention the waste-management business and the Camorra. How does a situation like that of the garbage emergency in Naples come about?b,121b,121Basically, the region of Campania is filled with dumps which are run by the Camorra, illegally or semi-legally. If you add it up, it has accounted for some $300 billion in the past 20 years. The dumps are full because they contain all the garbage and toxic waste in Italy. Because, as I mentioned before, Camorra-owned businesses can offer the best prices. b,121b,121Don???t they have a problem with polluting the land they live in?b,121b,121To start with, many bosses were against this idea. But the fact is???because of the constant, ruthless competition???if you don???t do it, another clan will. And if they do, they???ll make so much money that they???ll run you into the ground. Like with drugs. Many families are against them, but you can???t run away from business. You???ll end up being the weak one, the intellectual one. Real businessmen have no ethics.

kub

when i was a kid, me and my mom used to visit my grandparents in austria (near innsbruck).b,121so we were invited to a nice weekend in the north of italy, to a summer residency of someone (note: rich italians have cribs in the north to chill when it gets too hot during summer down south).b,121so first night it's dinner time, we're lounging on a huge balcony eating dope food, huge table, i'd say about 30-40 people.b,121thinking back it looked like it was taken out of a mob movie. b,121what i vividly remember is these italian dudes in the best suits and shoes, classy, and some of them dressed..how do i put it.. less flashy. women/wives sat near us children while the men were at the other end of the table.turns out the same weekend while we were enjoying the countryside, those dudes had a sitdown.b,121i asked my mom about it years later and she confirmed that most of these people were "connected" somehow, but she also said that they don't ever talk about it when women and children are around and that it's all kept on the hush hush.b,121last year i open up a newspaper and i see a big article on how some mob hitman, who finally got charged with over 10 murders got caught at a trainstation near bolzano.b,121guess what... that dude sat at that very same table with us.b,121b,121b,121b,121edit: b,121@ esquo: the ???Ndrangheta is just as bad.b,121both of these syndicates are brutal to the max

The Raise Up

Thanks for posting that interview esqo! Just got the book at the library today.

Reynaldo

Quote:h,121b,121Real businessmen have no ethics. b,121b,121h,121

LokoOne

Quote:h,121b,121b,121it has never been bigger than what it is now....... you may says it rules countriesb,121b,121I cosign on the coolness of gomorra, if you know Napoli at least b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121I agree. The Napolitanos (and Calabresi) are more brutal than the Sicilians.b,121b,121I just finishing reading a dope book called gangster capitalism and it gets into alot of the business connection of mafia groups etc.b,121b,121One point the book makes is the US Mafia isnt as strong or united as they seem and that the Ialtian OGs see them as a joke. b,121b,121In Argentina the napolitanos and calabresi roll heavy and they run alot of the shady shit....

DJ_NevilleC

I remember going to the old Lone Star Cafe in Manhattan to see Robert Gordon around 1980. The place is packed but we see this empty table near the stage. We sit down and within ten seconds a waiter and a manager are over there saying "you have to move now! this table is reserved." We get up and a little later this Italian family of four with pinky rings and mink coats takes the table. They proceed to receive the best and fastest service I'd ever seen. Not sure if they were Mafia but Central Casting couldn't have done any better.b,121Basically they stayed for one drink, maybe two and then split. We ended up getting the table for the rest of the night and Robert Gordon rocked.

sticky_dojah

edit:b,121@ esquo: the ???Ndrangheta is just as bad.b,121both of these syndicates are brutal to the maxb,121b,121b,121--------------------b,121b,121b,121b,121its almost all about the 'Ndrangheta over here. They are known to run one of the biggest Italian restaurants in the town where my parents live, just right across their place. Last year they had a shoot out in the Ruhr area of Germany (Duisburg) killin 7 guys. Although they only killed members of other clans up until now, they have their hands in lotsa things and police over here in Germany is not at all ready for this.

phongone

So the these organizations are pretty widespread in Europe outside of Italy? Crazy.

LokoOne

From my understanding they handle most of the coca coming from Latin America (cause of the histroy and migration in the past) just as they used to control lots of the smack in the 70s.... They are almost like the european 'coke brokers'...b,121b,121And ppl forget the Italians have lots of history and connections with the middle east and Northern Africa so i would say they would be in league with lots of the crime gangs in those places...

tripledouble

i was in italy when they blew up judge falcone's car. the judge's second in command got blown up soon after. and there might have been a bombing after that. all in a span of weeks. i was up north, but evryone was glued to the news. i can remember the feeling of inevitability and hopelesness.b,121b,121italian gov has been a mess for years. its no wonder a self serving slime ball like silvio berlusconi keeps his hands on power

Okem

Quote:h,121b,121From my understanding they handle most of the coca coming from Latin America (cause of the histroy and migration in the past) just as they used to control lots of the smack in the 70s.... They are almost like the european 'coke brokers'...b,121b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121b,121The Balkan region has become another popular entry point to Europe for drugs coming from Africa (parts of which are practically owned by Cartels) or else where. I don't know how much influence the Italians will have there. I did read recently however, that drug traffickers had recently shifted to dealing in Euros, as the $ was to weak.

Strider79it

Quote:h,121b,121i was in italy when they blew up judge falcone's car. the judge's second in command got blown up soon after. and there might have been a bombing after that. all in a span of weeks. i was up north, but evryone was glued to the news. i can remember the feeling of inevitability and hopelesness.b,121b,121italian gov has been a mess for years. its no wonder a self serving slime ball like silvio berlusconi keeps his hands on power b,121b,121h,121

b,121b,121your last sentence is absoultely , positevely right on point !!!b,121b,121Berlusconi got voted MASSIVELY from SICILY in a way that makes you wonder how he did it without receiving some "external" help.... b,121b,121I must confess I had a feeling of DEJA VU when Bush Jr got elected in such a weird way when everybody thought Gore won b,121b,121yeah Falcone and Borsellino were 2 brave guys that did a lot to fight the organized crime ...b,121b,121Mafia apart, Italy is still deeply a "family oriented" country ...