Cratediggers.com ????? WTF??

1911131415

  Comments


  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    i respect dude's perseverance, especially here. tough crowd.
    yeah definitely. i think dude is the only one not to get asshurt after some shit like this

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    this threads got legs....

    and Brix knows how to use them.

    I'll be honest with you. You sound (no pun intended) pretty green in this area. You've got the drive and ambition, but it's clear you are not sitting on piles of rare records and you don't sound like you're super knowledgeable in that area either. You don't have to know everything, but it seems like it would be helpful if that's the business you're jumping into.

    My suggestion would be for you to hit up some of the power sellers on this board and maybe some store owners to get some direct input. It would also be beneficial to try to get someone on board with you, as a consultant or even an employee. If you're serious about doing it right, then learn how to do it right. There are people on this board who know how to sell records really well and they know what they are doing. It would be wise to get someone on board with you as opposed to soaking up some random suggestions from a message board.

    If you're serious about it being THE SHIT and not just some random online record spot then you'll need a serious web designer who can handle it. Like people said, if it was like a combo of gemm and ebay then it would already look familiar and people would get the idea right away.

    Pull the terds off the shelves now. Start fresh. Try to get some quality records up there. Get someone to help you if you don't know. When you said you knew someone who claimed to have rare stuff it sounded so iffy. Get someone in with you who can actually help you, otherwise you'll get robbed.

  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
    Pull the terds off the shelves now. Start fresh. Try to get some quality records up there. Get someone to help you if you don't know. When you said you knew someone who claimed to have rare stuff it sounded so iffy. Get someone in with you who can actually help you, otherwise you'll get robbed.

    The crux to any record store is influx. A seller who knows his market is the key to its longevity, but if you do not have a constantly good (or even just fresh) selection, folks WILL go elsewhere, no matter if you have the most functional site in the world. You need to be up on trends and know how to GET THAT SHIT. With record supply on the decline and relative, current pricing and demand on the rise (due in part to factors like internet exposure and the state of modern music protracting old music beyond its years), you need to make contacts with the big guns.

    Also: NO BETA VERSIONS. Sellers might be turned on by the prospect of no listing fees (still not sure how you make money from this, other than high S&H), but an untested, unpopulated site looks bush-league. I'm not attempting to be an asshole, but no reputable power seller would want to associated with your site currently. Take your site down, and retool using the suggestions of, say, 20 major sellers. Get a good stock of records, and then RELAUNCH. My 2??: you should be content to settle for being a 2nd-rate musicstack.com- or gemm.com-type within your first 5 years. Known sellers (like Craig Moerer) often list one record on multiple sites at once. Your goal should be to become one of those multiple sites, and then, when so established, decide whether to break off or not. Build on the back of established sellers' records and give them a reason to use your site to boost their bottom line. You wouldn't want to be seen as a competitor in this scenario - just a facilitator.

    Another point: If you are not willing to make this your career, stop right now. The fact that your site USED TO exist for - did you say three years? - and few (if any) of us knew about it means something. SoulStrut isn't the brain center or end-all-be-all of the collecting industry, or anything, but many of us, including myself, know shit about shit when it comes to music and the vinyl it's pressed on. Most of us have egos that will be stoked by appealing to our knowledge. You have witnessed this in action for the past day. Use that honey. Get them flies.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,388 Posts
    Ok serious time from me too: the closed auction thing could be a goer. But you're going to need to really raise the profile of the site, and you're going to have to get some quality records to make people take interest. My advise would be find a copy of Palcebo - ball of eyes to get peoples atention!


    Ok. I am going to talk with my web guy tonight and get the closed auction in the work ASAP.

    As for the records.... I found a guy who claims he has some rare records he is selling in bulk. If you want to throw some titles out there - I will be sure to check into those.

    Palebo is one... anymore?

    In all seriousness, dude, please take some time to think abut this. Do not rush into throwing together an auction site without doing the proper groundwork on the business side. Getting auction software into a site is the easy bit.

  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
    Palebo is one... anymore?

    This is perhaps a bigger problem. There is much that I will never know about music and collecting - despite my best efforts - but there are literally millions of desirable LPs i the world. Saying "Palebo? Check." and approaching it like a listed-point task demonstrates your lack of foresight into records as they are bought and sold. What happens when you buy Ball Of Eyes for several hundred dollars and sell it for a profit of as much as $75? Do you pay a fraction of your rent for that month and feel happy? Or do you have a way to get hundreds of three-figure raers per year?

    And the group is P-L-A-C-E-B-O. Do some serious, serious research into Money Raers. Have you heard of the group "Popsike?" Common break records for hip-hop samplers will not pay your bills in 2008.

  • CR8DGRSCR8DGRS 76 Posts
    this threads got legs....

    and Brix knows how to use them.

    I'll be honest with you. You sound (no pun intended) pretty green in this area. You've got the drive and ambition, but it's clear you are not sitting on piles of rare records and you don't sound like you're super knowledgeable in that area either. You don't have to know everything, but it seems like it would be helpful if that's the business you're jumping into.

    My suggestion would be for you to hit up some of the power sellers on this board and maybe some store owners to get some direct input. It would also be beneficial to try to get someone on board with you, as a consultant or even an employee. If you're serious about doing it right, then learn how to do it right. There are people on this board who know how to sell records really well and they know what they are doing. It would be wise to get someone on board with you as opposed to soaking up some random suggestions from a message board.

    If you're serious about it being THE SHIT and not just some random online record spot then you'll need a serious web designer who can handle it. Like people said, if it was like a combo of gemm and ebay then it would already look familiar and people would get the idea right away.

    Pull the terds off the shelves now. Start fresh. Try to get some quality records up there. Get someone to help you if you don't know. When you said you knew someone who claimed to have rare stuff it sounded so iffy. Get someone in with you who can actually help you, otherwise you'll get robbed.

    I agree completely. When doing everything yourself trying to wear all the hats - it is close to impossible to concentrate in any one area. The knowledge in rare goods is an obvious example.

    I'd love to involve anyone who is serious.

  • CR8DGRSCR8DGRS 76 Posts
    Pull the terds off the shelves now. Start fresh. Try to get some quality records up there. Get someone to help you if you don't know. When you said you knew someone who claimed to have rare stuff it sounded so iffy. Get someone in with you who can actually help you, otherwise you'll get robbed.

    The crux to any record store is influx. A seller who knows his market is the key to its longevity, but if you do not have a constantly good (or even just fresh) selection, folks WILL go elsewhere, no matter if you have the most functional site in the world. You need to be up on trends and know how to GET THAT SHIT. With record supply on the decline and relative, current pricing and demand on the rise (due in part to factors like internet exposure and the state of modern music protracting old music beyond its years), you need to make contacts with the big guns.

    Also: NO BETA VERSIONS. Sellers might be turned on by the prospect of no listing fees (still not sure how you make money from this, other than high S&H), but an untested, unpopulated site looks bush-league. I'm not attempting to be an asshole, but no reputable power seller would want to associated with your site currently. Take your site down, and retool using the suggestions of, say, 20 major sellers. Get a good stock of records, and then RELAUNCH. My 2??: you should be content to settle for being a 2nd-rate musicstack.com- or gemm.com-type within your first 5 years. Known sellers (like Craig Moerer) often list one record on multiple sites at once. Your goal should be to become one of those multiple sites, and then, when so established, decide whether to break off or not. Build on the back of established sellers' records and give them a reason to use your site to boost their bottom line. You wouldn't want to be seen as a competitor in this scenario - just a facilitator.

    Another point: If you are not willing to make this your career, stop right now. The fact that your site USED TO exist for - did you say three years? - and few (if any) of us knew about it means something. SoulStrut isn't the brain center or end-all-be-all of the collecting industry, or anything, but many of us, including myself, know shit about shit when it comes to music and the vinyl it's pressed on. Most of us have egos that will be stoked by appealing to our knowledge. You have witnessed this in action for the past day. Use that honey. Get them flies.

    Well put.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    Have you heard of the group "Popsike?"
    i was thinking the exact same thing. wonder if there is a way you can "read" the whole site?

    the last 3 posts are gold. take them seriously. soulstrut has some serious record knowledge. i have been flipping through thousands of records every weekend for about 15 years and i still feel that my music and record knowledge pales in comparison to MANY people on this site. paycheck is a good example of someone who did serious serious homework before opening a record shop that will be talked about long after he decides to close.

    there are sellers on here who you should try to give every reason to post good records on your site.

    good luck brix

  • SnagglepusSnagglepus 1,756 Posts
    One very important point that was brought up and apparently ignored is the problem with having no shipping fees in an international market. Pay attention to this site for a week or two and you'll read about nightmares shipping records to various countries. This can't be ignored. Record selling is very much an international market. If someone has to account for international shipping fees in their listing price, $3 records are going to turn into $30 or $40 records. Someone living 1/2 hour from the seller is not going to want to pay the same amount that a person living in Japan would have to pay. I'm sure you envisioned simplicity when you thought of your "no shipping fees" business model, but, realistically, it would leave you dead in the water.

  • CR8DGRSCR8DGRS 76 Posts
    Have you heard of the group "Popsike?"
    i was thinking the exact same thing. wonder if there is a way you can "read" the whole site?


    the last 3 posts are gold. take them seriously. soulstrut has some serious record knowledge. i have been flipping through thousands of records every weekend for about 15 years and i still feel that my music and record knowledge pales in comparison to MANY people on this site. paycheck is a good example of someone who did serious serious homework before opening a record shop that will be talked about long after he decides to close.

    there are sellers on here who you should try to give every reason to post good records on your site.

    good luck brix


    Paycheck owns a physical store or an online store?

  • CR8DGRSCR8DGRS 76 Posts
    One very important point that was brought up and apparently ignored is the problem with having no shipping fees in an international market. Pay attention to this site for a week or two and you'll read about nightmares shipping records to various countries. This can't be ignored. Record selling is very much an international market. If someone has to account for international shipping fees in their listing price, $3 records are going to turn into $30 or $40 records. Someone living 1/2 hour from the seller is not going to want to pay the same amount that a person living in Japan would have to pay. I'm sure you envisioned simplicity when you thought of your "no shipping fees" business model, but, realistically, it would leave you dead in the water.

    This point was not ignored. I understand it perfectly clear. It's at the top of the list.

  • nzshadownzshadow 5,516 Posts



    Paycheck owns a physical store or an online store?

    http://www.goodrecordsnyc.com/about/

  • CR8DGRSCR8DGRS 76 Posts



    Paycheck owns a physical store or an online store?


    Thanks, I will visit his store next weekend.

  • mordecaimordecai 2,204 Posts



    Paycheck owns a physical store or an online store?


    Thanks, I will visit his store next weekend.


    was there any traffic in that 3 years or whatever the site was up before??

    to hear that you're losing thousands makes me cringe.

  • DuderonomyDuderonomy Haut de la Garenne 7,527 Posts
    Most of us have egos that will be stoked by appealing to our knowledge. You have witnessed this in action for the past day. Use that honey. Get them flies.

    Bzzzzzzzz. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. OK, I feel bad that nobody's mentioned this yet:


  • CR8DGRSCR8DGRS 76 Posts



    Paycheck owns a physical store or an online store?


    Thanks, I will visit his store next weekend.


    was there any traffic in that 3 years or whatever the site was up before??

    to hear that you're losing thousands makes me cringe.


    Yeah. I actually had a lot of traffic, and sold a good amount of records. The set up was horrible as far as function. I taught myself html, and was posting 50 records per page with only 3 pages. The selection was a bit better, and I kept the records super cheap - dollar bin style. I also was buying new records from distributors too.

    The look of the site was completely Hip-Hop.

    Some people were buying 50 records at a time. The labor of having to do everything manual and the downside of only having my collection, is what I set out to change.

    The pricing I did now is based off comparing prices with other sites.

  • twoplytwoply 2,903 Posts

    The pricing I did now is based off comparing prices with other sites.


    Basing your prices on asking prices from other sites does you no good. I can find Huey Lewis LPs priced at $50 and up on Gemm, but those copies will never sell, and neither will yours for $8.

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    I think someone mentioned removing links to your boys and your other projects with hip hop. That is actually a good idea. Not to diss that stuff you're working on, but a site like this is probably better "faceless." Like it or not, you've got a strong, unique personality and some people may get caught up in this as opposed to what your site is intended for. Pull "you" from the site and make it more about the site.

    That sounds mean, but I think you should take the early pages of this thread as an indication that people can latch onto things and run with them. I have no idea who runs ebay or gemm and I don't care. You might want to shoot for that.

    Chris (groove merchant) and jonny (good records) have the "face" element involved in their stores, but those are physical stores where you walk in and see a person running it. they are seen as dudes with considerable amounts of knowledge and they actually "are" their respective stores in a sense. I think in your case you're looking for something different.

    It's clear you want this to succeed and you're serious about making a go for it. I'm not trying to tell you to take your personality out of it completely, but record nerds are record nerds and they love to sniff out and challenge dudes on some geek shit. Chris and Jonny, for example, are like encyclopedias of music info and people respect their knowledge. Unless you're going to be an undeniable source of info for your customers (beyond site support and basic business elements), maybe you shouldn't push yourself as a forefront image in the site. Like I said before, you don't have to be the king of digging, but if people are mentioning Placebo and you're there saying "Palebo, ok I'll look for that" it's basicaly an invitation for people to take advantage of you or even avoid you.

    man, I feel like a dick now. I'm just trying to offer some insight. People are doing complete turn arounds and going from dissing to trying to help and thats because you are handling yourself professionally. Just take people's advice seriously. The record game is so fickle and tricky and unless you're already deep into it you might want to consider exactly what you're shooting for. i'd suggest pulling the beta and retooling until it's solid. If you flip flop in front of users it's going to make you look bad.

    If you're really losing thousands, pull the plug for now, pay one of the big dudes those thousands and bring it back when it's done right.

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    one more suggestion.

    since crate diggers is near and dear to your heart. Ever consider doing the main auction site as another name and having crate diggers as your hip hop/samples/ dj related off shoot?

    People were right in suggesting a more neutral name. Don't give up your original love, just make that a focused off shoot.

    That might actually be in your best interest, allowing you to retool the main site in a more private way until you're ready to introduce it officially. It's great to stick to your guns and stand behind your vision, but if the majority is against it you might want to swallow some pride and step back for a minute and look at it from outsider eyes.

  • ostost Montreal 1,375 Posts
    I think what you're saying makes sense and is really helpful. That's exactly what Brix needs.
    i didn't think it would happen but I'm starting to get a little impatient waiting for the updates and new layout for cratediggers.com

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    Is there a real need for an eBay alternative? Absolutely.

    BUT, there are guys out there who, unlike Mr. greenCR8s, actually know records but shy away from doing it because it would be a HUGE commitment and probably a total disaster. Like someone said, it's not just putting auction software on a website. Which is an understatement if ever there were one. You're likely to get something worse that the Goodwill.com auction site. Which is just sad.


    If anyone is ever going to make something like this work they need to get some credible, successful dealers with name recognition behind them who believe in this enough to leave eBay and lose money in the beginning. This would be a tough act for anyone to pull off, but it's going to be totally impossible for someone who doesn't REALLY KNOW their shit. I hate to be mean but, seriously, get real. This guy is acting like their is just sooo much untapped potential in records that all he's gotta do is buy a web domain and make some snake oil pitch and it'll all be his for the taking.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    The name stays - that is one thing I refuse to budge on.

    Dude, the name not only limits your appeal--it alienates your core target group.

    It's dated and wilde corny.

  • DJFerrariDJFerrari 2,411 Posts
    Is there a real need for an eBay alternative? Absolutely.

    BUT, there are guys out there who, unlike Mr. greenCR8s, actually know records but shy away from doing it because it would be a HUGE commitment and probably a total disaster. Like someone said, it's not just putting auction software on a website. Which is an understatement if ever there were one. You're likely to get something worse that the Goodwill.com auction site. Which is just sad.


    If anyone is ever going to make something like this work they need to get some credible, successful dealers with name recognition behind them who believe in this enough to leave eBay and lose money in the beginning. This would be a tough act for anyone to pull off, but it's going to be totally impossible for someone who doesn't REALLY KNOW their shit. I hate to be mean but, seriously, get real. This guy is acting like their is just sooo much untapped potential in records that all he's gotta do is buy a web domain and make some snake oil pitch and it'll all be his for the taking.



    Working on it

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Yeah Ivan and I have talked about this a couple times.... It's not a small thing.

    Forget having records, you need serious e-commerce experience to pull this off. Ebay is not some tiny start-up, it is a HUGE mega-corp with major capitalization and the best in the world behind their engineering and programming. You can't design an alternative with your homie that does web design in his spare time or basic html and a few banner ads or blog mentions. You need some real silicon valley expertise to make it happen, a huge advertising campaign and not to mention BIG TIME financing.

    If I were to do something like this I would have to leverage my entire stock. How else can you convince dealers and buyers that it's for real? And even that wouldn't be enough - I'd need several other top end dealers who would be willing to make the same commitment.

    All of which is to say, #1 - this is not a new idea, people have been trying to create an alternative to ebay and nothing yet has supplanted it, and #2 - despite your clear willingness to take risks and your energy and commitment, you need a lot more than a good idea and some drive to pull something like this off.

    I'll be in the shop all weekend so if you want to come down we can chat in person.

  • LuminLumin 807 Posts
    good luck with the site
    i'd be down to throw some shit on there when you get it up and running right
    peace

  • NateBizzoNateBizzo 2,328 Posts


    I'll be in the shop all weekend so if you want to come down we can chat in person.


    I smell a SLEEPOVER!

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    As fun as this thread was, I have to say that Brix handled himself with a lot more class than I would have.

    You should stick around for a while.

  • DJFerrariDJFerrari 2,411 Posts
    Yeah Ivan and I have talked about this a couple times.... It's not a small thing.

    Yup... I owe you some content btw. Been a bit busy with work and travel... which reiterates that it's not a small thing.

  • CR8DGRSCR8DGRS 76 Posts
    Like I said before - I appreciate and respect all your opinions. Your all spitting truth, and I respect it immensely. Know reason to feel bad about truth.

    When I made the html site in the beginning - it all seemed so easy, and only expected faster growth with a more advanced site. Which has happened in a sense. Now it's just making the right formula.

    I take this whole forum from page 1 as a great gift and learning lesson. The site will be coming down this weekend to go back under construction.

    Version one didn't fly - we will see about 1.5. I'd like to keep all you involved while Ed is working on it - so that you can see it first hand.

    Placebo might have been a joke - but in the billions of records that have been pressed - one probable does exist. How would you know?

  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    ive been noticing a lot of 's on the board lately...
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