SERATO latency issue and other ?s (not me related)

mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
edited July 2005 in DJ Talk / Mixes
I'm not a super scratcher like Norm Hopper (I am not a DJ, I swear), but we both noticed some pops when he was scratching through Serato like a madman (aka quite frequently).

It seemed to happen when the scratches hit the front and back ends of each soundclip / waveform. The crabs were fine but 2 clicks, flares and chirps were getting some loud pops in the cueing. Is this just a limitation in the program's cueing sensitivity?

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this (day, cosmo, ayres)?

Is this due to the bandwidth limitations of USB 1.1 or is there a setting we're missing? We tweaked the threshold, virtual memory settings of the laptop, etc but no luck. We have yet to get a 9volt AC adapter for the unit....which we plan to try tomorrow.

We're running a 2.66 ghz pentium 4 laptop, 384 megs ram (low, I know), and ample disk space.

thanks in advance,
M
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  Comments


  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    If you haven't checked the Rane board yet, I strongly recommend doing so. They're very helpful and even have developers who post there.

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    Yup, been checking it as we speak. Looks like there are a million XP tweaks to run.

    Guess I'm just being lazy (and wanna hear others' real world experience).


    Plus I know Day cuts like a madman, so I figured I'd hollar.


    cheers,
    M

  • dayday 9,612 Posts


    Is this due to the bandwidth limitations of USB 1.1 or is there a setting we're missing?
    We're running a 2.66 ghz pentium 4 laptop, 384 megs ram (low, I know), and ample disk space.

    thanks in advance,
    M

    Both of those could be a problem. I'm pretty sure USB 2.0 is ideal but the RAM issue is probably the biggest one. Did you adjust the buffer settings? I was having problems every so often and I adjusted the screen updates to 40 and the buffer to second from far left.
    The Rane forum is the shit and has oodles of info on there as far as optimizing your computer for it. Try and adjust things so they're still functional but at their lowest and see if that helps. I've been doing test sets on my raptop a few times (hours at a time and have had little problems. Only USB freak out when i'm online or running other apps (make sure to turn any and everything you can OFF!).
    I'm sure that bol Ayers and them can help you more.

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    Word day, we are going to try a few of those things.



    This will at least give Norm something to do tomorrow.



    thanks!

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    I hope that helps - he might need to add some RAM ultimately.

    I know alot of people hate on me for using it, but i'm telling you dude, shit is ridiculous.

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    shit is ridonkulous.
    shit is ridonkulous.
    shit is ridonkulous.
    shit is ridonkulous.
    shit is ridonkulous.
    shit is ridonkulous. [/b]



    saying



    hatters just don't understand, you have to see it to believe it

    luddites can say what they want, but Rane done changed the game



    First with the TTm56 and now this.....

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    I am realy saying, honestly and truly.







    I used to be DJ HOLIER THAN THOU for years and years and I deprived myself of all kinds of things both musically and technologically.

    Fuck limiting yourself YA NERD MEH!





    *currently ripping scratch records to use with motherfuckingseratohollerifyouneedsomething.

  • DelayDelay 4,530 Posts
    I used to be DJ HOLIER THAN THOU for years and years and I deprived myself of all kinds of things both musically and technologically.
    Fuck limiting yourself YA NERD MEH!
    Same here. luh that shit now

    the only reason anyone would hate on Serato is if they're not WORKING. If you dj out 1nce a week or more, that shit is soooo decent. After playing for 6 hours straight, the last thing i want to do is lug home 3 flight cases.

    I have had cueing issues too mark. If you look at the vinyl, it's broken up into little squares. I think if the needle's between squares, it's not recognized. some of those complicated flares and such might just be too much for the vinyl. I use a mac g4 powerbook and still have a few issues.

  • MorseCodeMorseCode 1,516 Posts
    I'm pumped 'cause my peoples teamed up and got my this shit for my birfday. Now I just need to put that down payment down on el Gcuatro, yaheardme?

  • kilogramkilogram 152 Posts
    have been seriously considering getting this (back issues, instantly having doubles of everything, b.y.o edits, no cue-burn, etc.) but have heard that it's really slow loading up songs. now the person that told me this has a ridiculous amount of shit on his drive so that might be the issue. has anyone else had this problem? ie. if i wanted to just play like 10 sec of a song and go to another one how does it perform?

    also, what's the cheapest place to get them. a place in town can do it for $479. anywhere else?

  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts


    It seemed to happen when the scratches hit the front and back ends of each soundclip / waveform. The crabs were fine but 2 clicks, flares and chirps were getting some loud pops in the cueing. Is this just a limitation in the program's cueing sensitivity?

    one thing i've noticed which I think is similar to what you're describing is that if the file starts exactly on the music with no lead-in time, it can slip a little while you are cuing or scratching. so if you can, try to use files which have a few seconds of silence before the music starts. that way if you are cutting on the first beat, you aren't bring it back past the beginning of the file when you back cue.

    also be mindful of your serato control records - if you are cutting a lot in the same place, you can burn them pretty quickly, and that will affect the tracking as well. like when you look in the setup window, when the needle goes over the place where the song starts, it will get really fuzzy and the go down to like 5% or whatever. what you should do is move the track start offset to the right 5 or 10 seconds, so you have a new, cleaner section of record to scratch and cue on. you can move it again and again until you get to 1 minute, then you should just turn over the records to the B Side and start over at 0 secs. I've been replacing the control records once a month. We do 6 hour club nights in NY, so the first 2-3 minutes of those records are being worn down for at least 3 hours each per night. that would burn out any record.

  • Young_PhonicsYoung_Phonics 8,041 Posts
    everytime I hear of Serato, I squirt microscopic drops of diaheria and I keep thinking "fuck.....people are going to lose jobs over this shit!"

  • DJBombjackDJBombjack Miami 1,665 Posts
    SSL is the shit. So many more ways to get creative now.

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    everytime I hear of Serato, I squirt microscopic drops of diaheria and I keep thinking "fuck.....people are going to lose jobs over this shit!"



    I had this same conversation with Exile and he felt the same way you do. He was saying underground artists are fucked and everyone is gonna lose money and the whole thing will die off unless they find a way to make people pay for downloads.

    I don't think it's gonna be as catastrophic as you guys might think. I've had it for a month or so now and I've still bought new records and gone digging. There's always going to be some things you just can't get anywhere else unless you buy the record.

    Man, i'm still trying to DL the instrumental to Peter Piper for God's sake(too lazy to dub every record I own)! So sekkle down sonny.



    What I[/b] want to know is, what's everyone's aversion to this technology?

    I see people on here chime in from time to time saying it's the work of Satan and I want to know why.

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    p.s. Mr. Latency:

    MAKE SURE YOUR NEEDLES ARE CLEAN!

    That can cause a lot of problems with connectivity to the control vinyl so make sure you periodically brush them off.

  • Deep_SangDeep_Sang 1,081 Posts
    everytime I hear of Serato, I squirt microscopic drops of diaheria and I keep thinking "fuck.....people are going to lose jobs over this shit!"

    I had this same conversation with Exile and he felt the same way you do. He was saying underground artists are fucked and everyone is gonna lose money and the whole thing will die off unless they find a way to make people pay for downloads.
    I don't think it's gonna be as catastrophic as you guys might think. I've had it for a month or so now and I've still bought new records and gone digging. There's always going to be some things you just can't get anywhere else unless you buy the record.
    Man, i'm still trying to DL the instrumental to Peter Piper for God's sake(too lazy to dub every record I own)! So sekkle down sonny.

    What I[/b] want to know is, what's everyone's aversion to this technology?
    I see people on here chime in from time to time saying it's the work of Satan and I want to know why.

    Being a good DJ has gone hand in hand with owning lots of records since its inception. Acquiring lots of records takes a long time and lots of loot.

    Now anyone can have access, that is scary.

    If it means better music in the clubs, cool.

    If it only opens the door to sucka djs, that is wack.

    I also do not think it is cool to watch someone select track on their computer, I think it is cool to watch someone wade through a crate.

    Computers lack personality, records are all personality.

    I think Serato is great for traveling DJs, but if you DJ in your own city and have records, effing play em! There are worse things than lugging a few crates around IMO.

  • Young_PhonicsYoung_Phonics 8,041 Posts
    everytime I hear of Serato, I squirt microscopic drops of diaheria and I keep thinking "fuck.....people are going to lose jobs over this shit!"

    I had this same conversation with Exile and he felt the same way you do. He was saying underground artists are fucked and everyone is gonna lose money and the whole thing will die off unless they find a way to make people pay for downloads.
    I don't think it's gonna be as catastrophic as you guys might think. I've had it for a month or so now and I've still bought new records and gone digging. There's always going to be some things you just can't get anywhere else unless you buy the record.
    Man, i'm still trying to DL the instrumental to Peter Piper for God's sake(too lazy to dub every record I own)! So sekkle down sonny.

    What I[/b] want to know is, what's everyone's aversion to this technology?
    I see people on here chime in from time to time saying it's the work of Satan and I want to know why.

    Being a good DJ has gone hand in hand with owning lots of records since its inception. Acquiring lots of records takes a long time and lots of loot.

    Now anyone can have access, that is scary.

    If it means better music in the clubs, cool.

    If it only opens the door to sucka djs, that is wack.

    I also do not think it is cool to watch someone select track on their computer, I think it is cool to watch someone wade through a crate.

    Computers lack personality, records are all personality.

    I think Serato is great for traveling DJs, but if you DJ in your own city and have records, effing play em! There are worse things than lugging a few crates around IMO.


    I could care less of "toy deejays" have good records, because that shit IS HAPPENING (thats what the internet is for). I could care less about all that "real" vs. "phony" or "technology" is the devil chatter as well.

    Similar to what Exile said, I'm corcerned on the negative impact it's going to have on labels who put out mostly vinyl (I'm talking about all the independent hip-hop, dance, soul, reggae etc labels). They're going to lose serious bucks if Serato keeps growing in popularity. I mean how long as has Serato been around? A year? Shit is like the talk amongst deejays.

    I mean why the fuck would a dj buy "what planet what station" or the "vanguard 45" or the new emanon 12'' if they can just download it illegally for free.

    A guy was telling me just yesterday that the record store he's works for is going to expand it's DVD and Video sections and trim back on the cd's and vinyl. the reason: people are just going crazy with the pirating of music.

    P.Ludite

    P.S. Not to get on a tangent, but why is it everytime I hear someone say "yo, i'll just burn that *underground backpack group cd* it's always a kid who looks like he can afford the shit and just got into the music 2 years ago.

  • AserAser 2,351 Posts
    dude, that argument is rather weak.....



    record collecting is not exclusive anymore. The game done changed ages ago, everybody can get anything they want now on reissues. Only the elite few can claim to have exclusives (keb darges of the world), and I don't think anyone on this board is working in that realm of dj circles. Ok maybe dante or whatever........but for us regular folk, serato is a Godsend. Why carry heavy crates just to prove you're down? If you've ever hurt your back carrying crates/equipment then you would be singing a different tune.

  • Young_PhonicsYoung_Phonics 8,041 Posts
    Why carry heavy crates just to prove you're down? If you've ever hurt your back carrying crates/equipment then you would be singing a different tune.


    My man:


    I'm not trying to single you out, but yo when people say that arguemnt (records are to heavy) that shit sounds like some soft-ass shit.

    "OHHH! I CAN'T LIFT A CRATE OF RECORDS! I BETTER GO BUY A LAPTOP!"

    Dudes need to be like Mangoman and PUSH UP ON THUR PUSH UPS!

  • AserAser 2,351 Posts
    in regards to small labels losing sales........the effect will be minimal. The demographic they're targeting is a niche market anyway, one that values collecting tangible goods. The major drop off in sales will be for the major label club joints that has a lifespan of a month. That's where you'll see the biggest dent.

  • AserAser 2,351 Posts


    My man:





    I'm not trying to single you out, but yo when people say that arguemnt (records are to heavy) that shit sounds like some soft-ass shit.



    "OHHH! I CAN'T LIFT A CRATE OF RECORDS! I BETTER GO BUY A LAPTOP!"



    Dudes need to be like Mangoman and PUSH UP ON THUR PUSH UPS!



    I am lightweight skinny asian dude.........can't herp it.





    I did mash up my back doing a wedding a few months ago, carrying rental equipment. Tis was not fun, my back was killing me for an entire month.



    so what can I say, I am weak like swv.



    ps: chiropractors ain't CHEAP

  • DJBombjackDJBombjack Miami 1,665 Posts
    Being a good DJ has gone hand in hand with owning lots of records since its inception. Acquiring lots of records takes a long time and lots of loot. Now anyone can have access, that is scary.

    Sure, but you still need to know the music in the first place.

    If it only opens the door to sucka djs, that is wack.

    There will always be wacks DJs getting good gigs. Always has happened, always will.

    I also do not think it is cool to watch someone select track on their computer, I think it is cool to watch someone wade through a crate.

    Then you are most likely the only person in the club doing so. 99.9% of club-goers are there to have fun, dance, get drunk, get high, get laid etc etc etc...

    Computers lack personality, records are all personality.

    I have no idea what this means.

    I think Serato is great for traveling DJs, but if you DJ in your own city and have records, effing play em! There are worse things than lugging a few crates around IMO.

    Well, once you've been DJing for 10 years or more, tell me how your sciatica and lower back pain feels.

    This is by no means a dig at you, don't take it that way. But these are all points that people make until they've used it for a while. I was the same...

  • Young_PhonicsYoung_Phonics 8,041 Posts
    in regards to small labels losing sales........the effect will be minimal. The demographic they're targeting is a niche market anyway, one that values collecting tangible goods. The major drop off in sales will be for the major label club joints that has a club lifespan of a month. That's where you'll see the biggest dent.

    I was about to say, I'd use Serato for stuff like new club heat I'm not fond of getting and of course remixes/tracks that I made

    but yo....Small labels will lose money, shiiiit! They're losing money now with things like SoulSeek.

    If I had Serato I'd be downloading all the GAMM, BBE, and "underground hip-hop" type stuff all day-and i'm a fiend for records and want to support these type of fellow little dudes.

  • Deep_SangDeep_Sang 1,081 Posts
    dude, that argument is rather weak.....

    record collecting is not exclusive anymore. The game done changed ages ago, everybody can get anything they want now on reissues. Only the elite few can claim to have exclusives (keb darges of the world), and I don't think anyone on this board is working in that realm of dj circles. Ok maybe dante or whatever........but for us regular folk, serato is a Godsend. Why carry heavy crates just to prove you're down? If you've ever hurt your back carrying crates/equipment then you would be singing a different tune.

    Well, collecting original records may not matter to you, but to me an OG is more special than a repress. I care about these kinds of things because I spend a lot of time trying to find these records. I like DJs that play original records, sorry if that bothers you. I was expressing why Serato bothers me.

    I don't think it is elitist, I respect anyone who plays good music, but if they went out and found a dope record, that is cooler to me than downloading it.

    I am not hating on those who get represses or download (I play plenty of represses), but it means less to me, that's why I replace my reissues when I find an OG. I don't expect others to buy this reasoning as an argument to not use Serato if they like it, so whether you think my argument is weak is not important to me, I just wanted to clarify why I feel this way, aight?

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    RADD



    Like everything in life, its different strokes for different folks.





    Thanks for chiming in on the technical help day and Ayres, we'll crack this problem and report back.


  • Deep_SangDeep_Sang 1,081 Posts
    Being a good DJ has gone hand in hand with owning lots of records since its inception. Acquiring lots of records takes a long time and lots of loot. Now anyone can have access, that is scary.

    Sure, but you still need to know the music in the first place.

    Computers lack personality, records are all personality.

    I have no idea what this means.


    First point, a very good point, and taken.

    As to the second part, it wasn't to be tken literally exactly, but I think having a tangible, scratchable record to work in my hands lends a certain personality (if somewhat ineffable) to records. Those that agree understand, those that don't, won't.

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts


    I think having a tangible, scratchable record to work in my hands lends a certain personality







    Looks like it, smells like it, and yeah I think it's vinyl





    The first time I saw Serato up close I could have sworn Cosmo and Ayres were playing OG vinyl and they were just too quick at changing the records.


  • Deep_SangDeep_Sang 1,081 Posts

    Those that agree understand, those that don't, won't.

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    I just wanted to clarify why I feel this way, aight?



    And that's why I posted that question in the first place.

    Holiday, I respect your opnion and am glad we can have this discussion on a mature level.



    What about most of us on here who use that program but also have decent crates? Why would I want to fuck up something that's not reissued and would be a pain in the ass and expensive to replace, when I can record it once and have double to cut up?



    To me, all the "rules" go out the window in the face of what you can do with it.

    I know what I have and what I can do, so it really doesn't matter to me what some other dude who collects records thinks.

    And doesn't it all come down to what you can with it? You're still using 2 vinyl records and you're still DJing like you normally would so if you suck it will show no matter what you're using.



    HOLLAIR

  • HAZHAZ 3,373 Posts

    Has serato overtaken final scratch by vestax? I'd think the vestax version would be better since its been out for over 3 years. You'd think the bugs would be out of it by now.

    h
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