most athletes have their eyes on the lucrative sponsership deals then making a statement.
I sure hope you are not suggesting that Carlos and Smith did this to get endorsements. They got nothing but hate for their brave statement. Muhammad Ali went to jail for his beliefs. That speed skater who used his moment to speak out for Darfur didn't do it for sponsorships.
Why is protesting the China Olympics and torch ceremony a good thing? Well I didn't see us talking about how bad China is before they started protesting. Raised consciousness right here right now.
Should country athletes boycott the Olympics? No. The purpose of the Olympics is the shared brotherhood/sisterhood for the athletes. And to show that countries who disagree and don't get along can if they try.
Should athletes and countries speak out against Chinese oppression in Tibet and Beijing? Yes.
I assume that all of us avoid Chinese products when possible. I assume that all of us vote for politicians who promise to take a harder line toward China. (Hey! That's all of them, the lying bastards.)
The question is whether nations should take responsibility and boycott the Games or whether the opportunity should be handed to athletes to decide what to do. What if the U.S. for whatever reason had decided not to compete in Mexico in '68? Then Carlos and Smith would have never had their epic moment on the podium. And what if the U.S. boycotted the '36 in Germany? Then Jesse Owens would have never embarrassed Hitler and his Aryans in their home arena.
I'm down for taking a stand against China but not for a wholesale boycott of the Beijing games. Let the athletes do their thang. I believe the "openness" of the Games, even if it's staged will help the country (the ordinary chinese guy on the street) in the end.
How the hell did Beijing get to host the Games in the first place?!!!
The question is whether nations should take responsibility and boycott the Games or whether the opportunity should be handed to athletes to decide what to do. What if the U.S. for whatever reason had decided not to compete in Mexico in '68? Then Carlos and Smith would have never had their epic moment on the podium. And what if the U.S. boycotted the '36 in Germany? Then Jesse Owens would have never embarrassed Hitler and his Aryans in their home arena.
I'm down for taking a stand against China but not for a wholesale boycott of the Beijing games. Let the athletes do their thang. I believe the "openness" of the Games, even if it's staged will help the country (the ordinary chinese guy on the street) in the end.
How the hell did Beijing get to host the Games in the first place?!!!
I agree, I don't think athletes and countries should boycott. I think they should shine a light.
I think about 2/3 of the countries of the world are democracies, so they had some choices. But it is good that the bright light of the world media is on China.
IOCC and governments think the Olympics are a big boost to a nation and city. People living in Olympic cities usually are not so happy. Average Joes does not see money from the games. They see inflation, especially rent and housing inflation. Also neighborhoods getting bulldozed and a spike in prostitution and other crimes.
The question is whether nations should take responsibility and boycott the Games or whether the opportunity should be handed to athletes to decide what to do. What if the U.S. for whatever reason had decided not to compete in Mexico in '68? Then Carlos and Smith would have never had their epic moment on the podium. And what if the U.S. boycotted the '36 in Germany? Then Jesse Owens would have never embarrassed Hitler and his Aryans in their home arena.
I'm down for taking a stand against China but not for a wholesale boycott of the Beijing games. Let the athletes do their thang. I believe the "openness" of the Games, even if it's staged will help the country (the ordinary chinese guy on the street) in the end.
How the hell did Beijing get to host the Games in the first place?!!!
I agree, I don't think athletes and countries should boycott. I think they should shine a light.
I think about 2/3 of the countries of the world are democracies, so they had some choices. But it is good that the bright light of the world media is on China.
IOCC and governments think the Olympics are a big boost to a nation and city. People living in Olympic cities usually are not so happy. Average Joes does not see money from the games. They see inflation, especially rent and housing inflation. Also neighborhoods getting bulldozed and a spike in prostitution and other crimes.
also Athens made short work of all their stray dogs when it came to cleaning up the city for the games. luckily some agencies stepped in to act as clearing houses to find the poor pooches homes across the EU.
maybe not on the level of neighborhoods getting bulldozed; just saying.
The question is whether nations should take responsibility and boycott the Games or whether the opportunity should be handed to athletes to decide what to do. What if the U.S. for whatever reason had decided not to compete in Mexico in '68? Then Carlos and Smith would have never had their epic moment on the podium. And what if the U.S. boycotted the '36 in Germany? Then Jesse Owens would have never embarrassed Hitler and his Aryans in their home arena.
I'm down for taking a stand against China but not for a wholesale boycott of the Beijing games. Let the athletes do their thang. I believe the "openness" of the Games, even if it's staged will help the country (the ordinary chinese guy on the street) in the end.
How the hell did Beijing get to host the Games in the first place?!!!
I agree, I don't think athletes and countries should boycott. I think they should shine a light.
I think about 2/3 of the countries of the world are democracies, so they had some choices. But it is good that the bright light of the world media is on China.
IOCC and governments think the Olympics are a big boost to a nation and city. People living in Olympic cities usually are not so happy. Average Joes does not see money from the games. They see inflation, especially rent and housing inflation. Also neighborhoods getting bulldozed and a spike in prostitution and other crimes.
also Athens made short work of all their stray dogs when it came to cleaning up the city for the games. luckily some agencies stepped in to act as clearing houses to find the poor pooches homes across the EU.
maybe not on the level of neighborhoods getting bulldozed; just saying.
Damn, you never struck me as a dog lover - kudos to you. Rootlesscoz, is this you?
The question is whether nations should take responsibility and boycott the Games or whether the opportunity should be handed to athletes to decide what to do.
obviously our (s)elected leaders have the responsibility to make a stand. Which they did not. Now the marketing has begun and China has stepped it up in Tibet thus the athletes, being the face of the games will bear the load. Is this fair? No.
What if the U.S. for whatever reason had decided not to compete in Mexico in '68? Then Carlos and Smith would have never had their epic moment on the podium. And what if the U.S. boycotted the '36 in Germany? Then Jesse Owens would have never embarrassed Hitler and his Aryans in their home arena.
good points.
I'm down for taking a stand against China but not for a wholesale boycott of the Beijing games. Let the athletes do their thang. I believe the "openness" of the Games, even if it's staged will help the country (the ordinary chinese guy on the street) in the end.
But the entire circus that is the olympics is built on the premise of 'the olympic dream' the 'openness' and it is a sham.
How the hell did Beijing get to host the Games in the first place?!!!
because we didn't get angry enough back when it mattered, back when we could make an actual difference. Now the wheels are in motion, the games will go on, a few protesters will jump up and down and we will all realize we are years too late.
-----------------------------------
I agree, I don't think athletes and countries should boycott. I think they should shine a light.
which is what is happening right now.
I think about 2/3 of the countries of the world are democracies, so they had some choices. But it is good that the bright light of the world media is on China.
yes, it is now, so even before the games have begun, we are watching. in the end will all our protesting matter? no. probably not.
IOCC and governments think the Olympics are a big boost to a nation and city. People living in Olympic cities usually are not so happy. Average Joes does not see money from the games. They see inflation, especially rent and housing inflation. Also neighborhoods getting bulldozed and a spike in prostitution and other crimes.
I have seen this first hand in Australia. Entire communities of Aboriginal people forcibly removed from their homes and bussed away (Redfern, the block), all the city's homeless taken away.
I know it is unfair to hoist the responsibility that lays with our collective governments onto the shoulders of athletes, but these athletes have the eyes of the world on them.
is my view too black and white? maybe.
Maybe those athletes can make a bigger difference by participating and making a statement during the games... i don't know...
(CNN) -- The Olympic torch relay was disrupted Monday by protesters in Paris demonstrating against the Chinese government, causing authorities to twice extinguish the flame and put the torch on a bus, according to The Associated Press.
plus 37 arrested in London.
What is your take on this?
Mine: Fuck the Olympics.
3000 police in Paris guarding the torch?
serious bullshit.
And when is a major athlete gonna have the balls to boycott?
I started this as a torch relay thread, now we are all focused on the question of athlete boycott so back to the torch:
THE CHALLENGE HAS BEEN LAID DOWN:
Beijing has said no force can stop the world relay of the Olympic flame as it faces new protests on the Californian leg of its journey. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7335871.stm
While I fully endorse using the torch relay to protest I can't be the only one who saw the crowds and suspected that around eighty per cent's concern over the situation in Tibet went as far as watching Kundun when it came out and thinking the Dalai Lama seemed really cool.
I also think that asking athletes to boycott the biggest event of their lives independent of any government ruling is a crock of shit. While the atrocities being carried out are terrible China's hardly the only country with a dubious human rights record to host a major sporting event.
It's really not up to an athlete to take the lead here.
Why is protesting the China Olympics and torch ceremony a good thing? Well I didn't see us talking about how bad China is before they started protesting. Raised consciousness right here right now.
Should country athletes boycott the Olympics? No. The purpose of the Olympics is the shared brotherhood/sisterhood for the athletes. And to show that countries who disagree and don't get along can if they try.
Should athletes and countries speak out against Chinese oppression in Tibet and Beijing? Yes.
I assume that all of us avoid Chinese products when possible. I assume that all of us vote for politicians who promise to take a harder line toward China. (Hey! That's all of them, the lying bastards.)
I think criticism of China's human rights record, in Tibet or elsewhere, has been pretty consistent and loud for a long while. This just presents a good opportunity for protesters to get media share. Tianamen anyone?
most athletes have their eyes on the lucrative sponsership deals then making a statement.
I sure hope you are not suggesting that Carlos and Smith did this to get endorsements. They got nothing but hate for their brave statement. Muhammad Ali went to jail for his beliefs. That speed skater who used his moment to speak out for Darfur didn't do it for sponsorships.
course not. even Peter Norman, the Australian silver medal winner never competed again for wearing an Olympic Project for Human Rights badge on the podium.
China is the world's factory now. Ain't nobody else able to bang out a DVD player for $10. Explain to your kid he can't have a new bike because you can't afford ones made in "Ethical" countries (whatever they are - let he who is clean cast the first stone, and all that).
If I was an athlete, I would compete. I would want to compete against the best and take the medal with pride. I would be there to win, not to promote my own political agenda, whatever that may be. I believe we elect the governments to sort out the politics.
I think no country on earth that would host the games has a perfectly "Clean" record without any controversial skeletons in the closet.
I'm not on the "Screw The Olympics" bandwagon and here's why....
I don't think the Olympics started out as, nor has ever been, a gathering for brotherhood and good feelings.....it's pretty much always been a way for one country to say it kicked another country's ass without actually killing anyone.
It's not about unilateral democracy as much as it is a clash of cultures and beliefs all being played out on an even, nonviolent, playing field.
One of my fondest childhood Olympic memories were the fights involving Teofilo Stevenson, a boxer from Cuba.
Even though he represented a country that had many civil rights issues, and held polar opposite political views as 2/3rds of the countries involved, Stevenson gave hope and pride to his fellow countrymen. And he earned the respect of even those who despised Cuba's leader and system of government.
In my opinion, Stevenson did more for the morale of Cubans, and the way the rest of the world viewed Cuba, than any boycott could have acheived.
Let's fight for the rights of all humans, all the time, but those two weeks of Olympics should be about competing on a basic human level. A time to put aside all the problems of the world and set a stage that shows we're all basically the same. We all have pride, a desire to compete and win.
To show that we can do this despite our differences is a step in the right direction, not ignorance of deep and obvious problems.
There have been 50 + murders in Philly so far this year....anyone thinking about boycotting the Sixers games until the local goverment solves that problem??
That said, I'm no great fan of the Olympics.....I watch a few events but could take it or leave it.....but to boycott them over politics would rob us of things like Jesse Owens impact on the world stage.....and we'd all be worse off because of it.
Just my 2 cents worth.....I don't expect anyone to change their opinions.
Lot of self-righteousness up in here questioning the protestors knowledge and motives.
"I bet they don't even know..." or "I bet all their clothes come from China..."
I must have forgotten that Soulstrut is the world's authority on worthy protesters. I'll be sure to check in to see if I qualify for any future causes.
Lot of self-righteousness up in here questioning the protestors knowledge and motives.
"I bet they don't even know..." or "I bet all their clothes come from China..."
I must have forgotten that Soulstrut is the world's authority on worthy protesters. I'll be sure to check in to see if I qualify for any future causes.
The point is that some of these people will throw water on a torch cuz it's EASY. Makeing the daily sacficices to make a better world is HARD.
Lot of self-righteousness up in here questioning the protestors knowledge and motives.
"I bet they don't even know..." or "I bet all their clothes come from China..."
I must have forgotten that Soulstrut is the world's authority on worthy protesters. I'll be sure to check in to see if I qualify for any future causes.
The point is that some of these people will throw water on a torch cuz it's EASY. Makeing the daily sacficices to make a better world is HARD.
The point is that some people will get up from in front of the TV or computer or psii and do something, even if it means risking going to jail or getting beaten by the cops. Other people who are far better informed and do much more for the world will criticize them.
Lot of self-righteousness up in here questioning the protestors knowledge and motives.
"I bet they don't even know..." or "I bet all their clothes come from China..."
I must have forgotten that Soulstrut is the world's authority on worthy protesters. I'll be sure to check in to see if I qualify for any future causes.
The point is that some of these people will throw water on a torch cuz it's EASY. Makeing the daily sacficices to make a better world is HARD.
The point is that some people will get up from in front of the TV or computer or psii and do something, even if it means risking going to jail or getting beaten by the cops. Other people who are far better informed and do much more for the world will criticize them.
Since I dismissed some of the UK protesters I should probably step up here. I never claim to be better informed than anyone about the situation in Tibet and personally, while I am distressed about the human rights abuse, have no inclination to get involved. I approve of protesters campaigning for public awareness for any noble cause but, having been in crowds in similar media spotlight situations, I will stand by my point that a lot of the people who were there in london were fairweather opponents, more caught up in the excitement of fuckin up the Olympic torch parade than making a deep seated protest about human rights abuse.
Ok. That was a fairly civil response from those who I not-so-subtlely took a shot at, so I will respond in kind.
While I do think in the past the "Free Tibet," movement has seemed like a ragtag bunch of hippies who put down the bong long enough to light a sage stick and make a t-shirt, this seems to different altogether. If you look at the news reports (an different aspect that I will address in a moment) there seem to be many tibetans involved- that is one area where the Soulstrut-air-of-Superiority seemed really out of bounds. Driving in to work just now, Morning Edition reported that today's SF protests were being led by Tibetan refugees and a group of Burmese monks. Call me crazy, but I don't think we have any right to test the credentials.
Now, as for some of the folks who violently jumped the torch bearers. Glory hounds? Perhaps. But, their willingness to risk prison at this moment and for this cause doesn't bother me. Why? Look at the coverage they are getting. This is a lead story on every media outlet, and has gone from a fringe cause to a major issue. As a recent Slate article pointed out, the Olympics are a PERFECt avenue to air protests, and these people are merely taking advantage of that, and to great effect, in terms of media exposure.
We could definitely argue the long term effects of this media exposure, and if it will embarass the Chinese government to the point where they dig in their heels and just kill all Tibetans. But, that is a different argument.
Finally, and this may seem ad hominem but I don't mean it to be, I do think there is an air of comfortably sitting behind the keyboard and testing people's credentials as to how much more they buy from China than you. Look, China is making huge money exporting products, and while we have to start with ourselves and watch how our money is spent (I firmly believe in this), there are times for more ballistic protests, and this may be one, though we may disagree on that.
Comments
I sure hope you are not suggesting that Carlos and Smith did this to get endorsements. They got nothing but hate for their brave statement. Muhammad Ali went to jail for his beliefs. That speed skater who used his moment to speak out for Darfur didn't do it for sponsorships.
Should country athletes boycott the Olympics? No. The purpose of the Olympics is the shared brotherhood/sisterhood for the athletes. And to show that countries who disagree and don't get along can if they try.
Should athletes and countries speak out against Chinese oppression in Tibet and Beijing? Yes.
I assume that all of us avoid Chinese products when possible. I assume that all of us vote for politicians who promise to take a harder line toward China. (Hey! That's all of them, the lying bastards.)
I'm down for taking a stand against China but not for a wholesale boycott of the Beijing games. Let the athletes do their thang. I believe the "openness" of the Games, even if it's staged will help the country (the ordinary chinese guy on the street) in the end.
How the hell did Beijing get to host the Games in the first place?!!!
I agree, I don't think athletes and countries should boycott. I think they should shine a light.
I think about 2/3 of the countries of the world are democracies, so they had some choices. But it is good that the bright light of the world media is on China.
IOCC and governments think the Olympics are a big boost to a nation and city. People living in Olympic cities usually are not so happy. Average Joes does not see money from the games. They see inflation, especially rent and housing inflation. Also neighborhoods getting bulldozed and a spike in prostitution and other crimes.
also Athens made short work of all their stray dogs when it came to cleaning up the city for the games. luckily some agencies stepped in to act as clearing houses to find the poor pooches homes across the EU.
maybe not on the level of neighborhoods getting bulldozed; just saying.
Damn, you never struck me as a dog lover - kudos to you. Rootlesscoz, is this you?
hahaha not me though I got love for that dude (no sexual ambiguity-o). he's saved a lot of dogs over the years apparently.
obviously our (s)elected leaders have the responsibility to make a stand. Which they did not. Now the marketing has begun and China has stepped it up in Tibet thus the athletes, being the face of the games will bear the load. Is this fair? No.
good points.
But the entire circus that is the olympics is built on the premise of 'the olympic dream' the 'openness' and it is a sham.
because we didn't get angry enough back when it mattered, back when we could make an actual difference. Now the wheels are in motion, the games will go on, a few protesters will jump up and down and we will all realize we are years too late.
-----------------------------------
which is what is happening right now.
yes, it is now, so even before the games have begun, we are watching. in the end will all our protesting matter? no. probably not.
I have seen this first hand in Australia. Entire communities of Aboriginal people forcibly removed from their homes and bussed away (Redfern, the block), all the city's homeless taken away.
I know it is unfair to hoist the responsibility that lays with our collective governments onto the shoulders of athletes, but these athletes have the eyes of the world on them.
is my view too black and white? maybe.
Maybe those athletes can make a bigger difference by participating and making a statement during the games... i don't know...
fuck the olympics? maaaaaaan, fuck china!
No, not fuck China, fuck their leaders... But yes, FUCK THE OLYMPICS.
THE CHALLENGE HAS BEEN LAID DOWN:
Beijing has said no force can stop the world relay of the Olympic flame as it faces new protests on the Californian leg of its journey. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7335871.stm
not so sure about that.
I also think that asking athletes to boycott the biggest event of their lives independent of any government ruling is a crock of shit. While the atrocities being carried out are terrible China's hardly the only country with a dubious human rights record to host a major sporting event.
It's really not up to an athlete to take the lead here.
I think criticism of China's human rights record, in Tibet or elsewhere, has been pretty consistent and loud for a long while. This just presents a good opportunity for protesters to get media share. Tianamen anyone?
course not. even Peter Norman, the Australian silver medal winner never competed again for wearing an Olympic Project for Human Rights badge on the podium.
If I was an athlete, I would compete. I would want to compete against the best and take the medal with pride. I would be there to win, not to promote my own political agenda, whatever that may be. I believe we elect the governments to sort out the politics.
I think no country on earth that would host the games has a perfectly "Clean" record without any controversial skeletons in the closet.
Jusy my 2p.
I don't think the Olympics started out as, nor has ever been, a gathering for brotherhood and good feelings.....it's pretty much always been a way for one country to say it kicked another country's ass without actually killing anyone.
It's not about unilateral democracy as much as it is a clash of cultures and beliefs all being played out on an even, nonviolent, playing field.
One of my fondest childhood Olympic memories were the fights involving Teofilo Stevenson, a boxer from Cuba.
Even though he represented a country that had many civil rights issues, and held polar opposite political views as 2/3rds of the countries involved, Stevenson gave hope and pride to his fellow countrymen. And he earned the respect of even those who despised Cuba's leader and system of government.
In my opinion, Stevenson did more for the morale of Cubans, and the way the rest of the world viewed Cuba, than any boycott could have acheived.
Let's fight for the rights of all humans, all the time, but those two weeks of Olympics should be about competing on a basic human level. A time to put aside all the problems of the world and set a stage that shows we're all basically the same. We all have pride, a desire to compete and win.
To show that we can do this despite our differences is a step in the right direction, not ignorance of deep and obvious problems.
There have been 50 + murders in Philly so far this year....anyone thinking about boycotting the Sixers games until the local goverment solves that problem??
That said, I'm no great fan of the Olympics.....I watch a few events but could take it or leave it.....but to boycott them over politics would rob us of things like Jesse Owens impact on the world stage.....and we'd all be worse off because of it.
Just my 2 cents worth.....I don't expect anyone to change their opinions.
I just was in there and a poll flashed on the screen, inviting you to go to USA Today's website or something and vote.
NO JOKE this was the poll:
"The protests surrounding the Olympic torch ceremonies are:
a. Against the spirit of the games.
b. Totally unwarranted."
There was no option (c).
"I bet they don't even know..." or "I bet all their clothes come from China..."
I must have forgotten that Soulstrut is the world's authority on worthy protesters. I'll be sure to check in to see if I qualify for any future causes.
The point is that some of these people will throw water on a torch cuz it's EASY. Makeing the daily sacficices to make a better world is HARD.
The point is that some people will get up from in front of the TV or computer or psii and do something, even if it means risking going to jail or getting beaten by the cops. Other people who are far better informed and do much more for the world will criticize them.
Since I dismissed some of the UK protesters I should probably step up here. I never claim to be better informed than anyone about the situation in Tibet and personally, while I am distressed about the human rights abuse, have no inclination to get involved.
I approve of protesters campaigning for public awareness for any noble cause but, having been in crowds in similar media spotlight situations, I will stand by my point that a lot of the people who were there in london were fairweather opponents, more caught up in the excitement of fuckin up the Olympic torch parade than making a deep seated protest about human rights abuse.
While I do think in the past the "Free Tibet," movement has seemed like a ragtag bunch of hippies who put down the bong long enough to light a sage stick and make a t-shirt, this seems to different altogether. If you look at the news reports (an different aspect that I will address in a moment) there seem to be many tibetans involved- that is one area where the Soulstrut-air-of-Superiority seemed really out of bounds. Driving in to work just now, Morning Edition reported that today's SF protests were being led by Tibetan refugees and a group of Burmese monks. Call me crazy, but I don't think we have any right to test the credentials.
Now, as for some of the folks who violently jumped the torch bearers. Glory hounds? Perhaps. But, their willingness to risk prison at this moment and for this cause doesn't bother me. Why? Look at the coverage they are getting. This is a lead story on every media outlet, and has gone from a fringe cause to a major issue. As a recent Slate article pointed out, the Olympics are a PERFECt avenue to air protests, and these people are merely taking advantage of that, and to great effect, in terms of media exposure.
We could definitely argue the long term effects of this media exposure, and if it will embarass the Chinese government to the point where they dig in their heels and just kill all Tibetans. But, that is a different argument.
Finally, and this may seem ad hominem but I don't mean it to be, I do think there is an air of comfortably sitting behind the keyboard and testing people's credentials as to how much more they buy from China than you. Look, China is making huge money exporting products, and while we have to start with ourselves and watch how our money is spent (I firmly believe in this), there are times for more ballistic protests, and this may be one, though we may disagree on that.