after reading over the ORIGINAL question...I'd like all of you to rethink your ideas above...the statement reads above "pound for pound which US city would you say gave us the greatest soul and funk music?"...pound for pound...means OVERALL releases...not artists, etc....just sheers numbers of contribution....therefore...not if they came from that city, or where born there, etc...what city gave us the most?
I HAVE DONE (AND CONTINUE TO DO) THE NUMBERS AND IT IS CHICAGO. FACT TRUMPS SPECULATION.
by your own logic, lacking a comprehensive Detroit list for comparison, YOUR claims are also mere speculation
perhaps someone in texas could take up the michigansoulrecordings.com burden? har de har
when did this "argument" turn to the discussion of sheer quantity of records released? The original post questioned which city gave the world the "greatest soul music"...not an objective bean counting question, I dont think...
when did this "argument" turn to the discussion of sheer quantity of records released? The original post questioned which city gave the world the "greatest soul music"...not an objective bean counting question, I dont think...
what was that "soul bbq" quip about?
it actually says "pound for pound"...that means quantity...not quality, or association with...(hence soul bbq)
Ok so pound for pound, which US city would you say gave us the greatest soul and funk music? There are the big names in history like Chicago, Detroit, Memphis, NOLA, Philly and so on. But then you've got the smaller cities. Although not as prolific, some of them put out some seriously heavy records as well. I'm thinking of places like Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Baton Rouge etc... Then also, there are the bigger cities that never got a lot of credit in the Historical sense. Places like Houston or Miami.
I definitely don't have an answer to this. I'd be comfortable saying that the Rust Belt as a region put out some seriously massive cuts on all fronts, and is probably where I'd start. But to narrow it down to one city is too tough. Anyone?
after reading over the ORIGINAL question...I'd like all of you to rethink your ideas above...the statement reads above "pound for pound which US city would you say gave us the greatest soul and funk music?"...pound for pound...means OVERALL releases...not artists, etc....just sheers numbers of contribution....therefore...not if they came from that city, or where born there, etc...what city gave us the most?
my original answer stands....Detroit/Chicago (a battle for first)...then L.A...then NYC...if you argue that with the above quote...you don't get the arguement...NOLA, Ohio, Memphis...are out of the picture...don't care they have great soul bbq, or whatever..it's POUND FOR POUND overall releases....not if you associate that city with soul/funk...
You are focusing on "pound for pound" and ignoring "GREATEST".
NYC has Ray Charles, NYC has Aretha, NYC has Otis Redding. Detroit & Chicago don't even have artists who can be mentioned in the same breath. Even Motown wasn't taken seriously until they did it at the Apollo.
Who cares about quantity? So K-Tel guy has the "record collection capital of the world"?
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
That's fine... I'm just saying it's a silly debate over sheer quantity. None of us think of our collections in sheer quantity so why try ranking the cities that way?
Who cares about quantity? So K-Tel guy has the "record collection capital of the world"?
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
Ok so pound for pound, which US city would you say gave us the greatest[/b] soul and funk music?
As I have already proved. The GREATEST soul music comes from NYC. If someone wants to argue that the greatest funk music comes from Cleveland or NOLA, I'm ready to listen.
Sorry Detroit and Chicago, but if your groups were any good they would have gone to NYC.
Who cares about quantity? So K-Tel guy has the "record collection capital of the world"?
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
That's fine... I'm just saying it's a silly debate over sheer quantity. None of us think of our collections in sheer quantity so why try ranking the cities that way?
agreed....but......if it was quality...I'd stick with Detroit and Chicago as top 2...they can fight it out amongst themselves in my crates...i personally just love the soul sounds coming out of both areas...call me crazy...I'm not really speaking on funk here...
Who cares about quantity? So K-Tel guy has the "record collection capital of the world"?
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
Ok so pound for pound, which US city would you say gave us the greatest[/b] soul and funk music?
As I have already proved. The GREATEST soul music comes from NYC. If someone wants to argue that the greatest funk music comes from Cleveland or NOLA, I'm ready to listen.
Sorry Detroit and Chicago, but if your groups were any good they would have gone to NYC.
Ray Charles,Aretha,Otis Redding were from the south.... not NYC (which I'm sure you're well aware of)
There should be a regional DJ competition where DJs spin 2 hours of the best 45s from their state and a panelist of British judges breaks it down Simon Cowell style.
"That was the most booohhhhring, ab-surd, worthless performance I've..." (audience boos) "...look mate, I've played jukeboxes a toss more worthwhile than your selection there. Pants. Absolutely horrid."
There should be a regional DJ competition where DJs spin 2 hours of the best 45s from their state and a panelist of British judges breaks it down Simon Cowell style.
Who cares about quantity? So K-Tel guy has the "record collection capital of the world"?
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
Ok so pound for pound, which US city would you say gave us the greatest[/b] soul and funk music?
As I have already proved. The GREATEST soul music comes from NYC. If someone wants to argue that the greatest funk music comes from Cleveland or NOLA, I'm ready to listen.
Sorry Detroit and Chicago, but if your groups were any good they would have gone to NYC.
Ray Charles,Aretha,Otis Redding were from the south.... not NYC (which I'm sure you're well aware of)
There should be a regional DJ competition where DJs spin 2 hours of the best 45s from their state and a panelist of British judges breaks it down Simon Cowell style.
Ray Charles is from Georgia. He recorded in LA before going to NYC[/b] to record for a NYC[/b] with a NYC[/b] producer. Soul music was invented by Ray Charles in NYC[/b]. All you all are playing catch up.
Aretha is from Detroit, and left as soon as she had musical aspirations. He vision was first realized in NYC[/b] with the song Soulville. She then extended that vision when she signed to an independent NYC[/b] record label and her NYC[/b] producer recorded her for one song in Muscle Shoals. All of her other soul hits were recorded in NYC[/b] usually with NYC[/b] studio musicians, tho it is true some Southern musicians came up to record with her.
Otis Redding was from Georgia. He recorded in Memphis. He recorded for a Memphis label that was all but owned by the same NYC[/b] label that Aretha would record for.
Where they are from means nothing in this discussion.
Pound for pound, greatsest for greatest, Atlantic Records released more soul music than Detroit and Chicago combined.
Sure some soul stars played at little Detroit armature hour clubs. And they all played at the Regal in Chicago, but they were nothing until they played at the Apollo in NYC[/b]. Why? Because NYC[/b] was the greatest soul city.
As the original poaster, I took "pound for pound" to mean "per capita" in a sense.
IE: The world's best flyweight boxer might not beat the 10th ranked heavyweight, but he's a better boxer "pound for pound". Number of releases should be considered but shouldn't by any means be the only thing looked at. Maybe there should be similar divisions here. Major cities, Big cities, Minor cities.
That being said, there's a good case to be made for Chicago as it combines sheer VOLUME of QUALITY output and managed to weave the music into the culture of the city, which I think is immensely important. Did any New York soul brothers and sisters feel a personal connection to Aretha Franklin's Atlantic sides? No, that was commercial music recorded for a national audience.
"That was the most booohhhhring, ab-surd, worthless performance I've..." (audience boos) "...look mate, I've played jukeboxes a toss more worthwhile than your selection there. Pants. Absolutely horrid."
wow...I must have missed this one...I could actually hear simon saying this...haha
As the original poaster, I took "pound for pound" to mean "per capita" in a sense.
IE: The world's best flyweight boxer might not beat the 10th ranked heavyweight, but he's a better boxer "pound for pound". Number of releases should be considered but shouldn't by any means be the only thing looked at. Maybe there should be similar divisions here. Major cities, Big cities, Minor cities.
That being said, there's a good case to be made for Chicago as it combines sheer VOLUME of QUALITY output and managed to weave the music into the culture of the city, which I think is immensely important. Did any New York soul brothers and sisters feel a personal connection to Aretha Franklin's Atlantic sides? No, that was commercial music recorded for a national audience.
no...we'll tell you what you meant! it's bigger than you now...let the dust settle...after breck and dante list discographies of their perspective champions...and we can all decide
besides didn't we already book simon, james trouble, giles peterson, and keb darge to judge the 2 hour "rep your soul city" dj competition?
Did any New York soul brothers and sisters feel a personal connection to Aretha Franklin's Atlantic sides? No, that was commercial music recorded for a national audience.
That's good point. If it's true. New York, where you at?
Sticking to that argument. Let's take Motown straight out of the mix. Detroit what you got now?
Sticking to that argument. Let's take Motown straight out of the mix. Detroit what you got now?
Almost the entire stables of Invictus, Hot Wax, Ric Tic, Golden World, Ollie McLaughlin's labels (Carla, Karen, etc.) and Revilot.
And if ya want me to name names:
The Parliaments, Andre Williams, the Fantastic Four, J.J. Barnes, the Flaming Ember, Steve Mancha, Dennis Coffey, the Capitols, Deon Jackson, the Dramatics, Gino Washington, Angelo Bond, Darrell Banks, 100 Proof Aged In Soul, Chairmen Of The Board (they came from all over, but I believe they were based in Detroit when they had their hits), Eighth Day, the Holidays, Jimmy Delphs, the (Fabulous) Counts for starters.
And I'm sticking with the relative hitmakers - all these acts had some degree of success, and I wouldn't be getting anywhere by naming obscurities. Sure, most of these people never became superstars, and quite a few of them worked at Motown in some capacity, but they did prove that there was life in Detroit beyond Hitsville U.S.A..
Who cares about quantity? So K-Tel guy has the "record collection capital of the world"?
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
Ok so pound for pound, which US city would you say gave us the greatest[/b] soul and funk music?
As I have already proved. The GREATEST soul music comes from NYC. If someone wants to argue that the greatest funk music comes from Cleveland or NOLA, I'm ready to listen.
Sorry Detroit and Chicago, but if your groups were any good they would have gone to NYC.
Ray Charles,Aretha,Otis Redding were from the south.... not NYC (which I'm sure you're well aware of)
There should be a regional DJ competition where DJs spin 2 hours of the best 45s from their state and a panelist of British judges breaks it down Simon Cowell style.
Ray Charles is from Georgia. He recorded in LA before going to NYC[/b] to record for a NYC[/b] with a NYC[/b] producer. Soul music was invented by Ray Charles in NYC[/b]. All you all are playing catch up.
Aretha is from Detroit, and left as soon as she had musical aspirations. He vision was first realized in NYC[/b] with the song Soulville. She then extended that vision when she signed to an independent NYC[/b] record label and her NYC[/b] producer recorded her for one song in Muscle Shoals. All of her other soul hits were recorded in NYC[/b] usually with NYC[/b] studio musicians, tho it is true some Southern musicians came up to record with her.
Otis Redding was from Georgia. He recorded in Memphis. He recorded for a Memphis label that was all but owned by the same NYC[/b] label that Aretha would record for.
Where they are from means nothing in this discussion.
Pound for pound, greatsest for greatest, Atlantic Records released more soul music than Detroit and Chicago combined.
Sure some soul stars played at little Detroit armature hour clubs. And they all played at the Regal in Chicago, but they were nothing until they played at the Apollo in NYC[/b]. Why? Because NYC[/b]
was the greatest soul city.
Christ, I hope this is a joke.
If not, we need a "Lost In The Sauce" graemlin up here immediately.
Who cares about quantity? So K-Tel guy has the "record collection capital of the world"?
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
Ok so pound for pound, which US city would you say gave us the greatest[/b] soul and funk music?
As I have already proved. The GREATEST soul music comes from NYC. If someone wants to argue that the greatest funk music comes from Cleveland or NOLA, I'm ready to listen.
Sorry Detroit and Chicago, but if your groups were any good they would have gone to NYC.
Ray Charles,Aretha,Otis Redding were from the south.... not NYC (which I'm sure you're well aware of)
There should be a regional DJ competition where DJs spin 2 hours of the best 45s from their state and a panelist of British judges breaks it down Simon Cowell style.
Ray Charles is from Georgia. He recorded in LA before going to NYC[/b] to record for a NYC[/b] with a NYC[/b] producer. Soul music was invented by Ray Charles in NYC[/b]. All you all are playing catch up.
Aretha is from Detroit, and left as soon as she had musical aspirations. He vision was first realized in NYC[/b] with the song Soulville. She then extended that vision when she signed to an independent NYC[/b] record label and her NYC[/b] producer recorded her for one song in Muscle Shoals. All of her other soul hits were recorded in NYC[/b] usually with NYC[/b] studio musicians, tho it is true some Southern musicians came up to record with her.
Otis Redding was from Georgia. He recorded in Memphis. He recorded for a Memphis label that was all but owned by the same NYC[/b] label that Aretha would record for.
Where they are from means nothing in this discussion.
Pound for pound, greatsest for greatest, Atlantic Records released more soul music than Detroit and Chicago combined.
Sure some soul stars played at little Detroit armature hour clubs. And they all played at the Regal in Chicago, but they were nothing until they played at the Apollo in NYC[/b]. Why? Because NYC[/b]
was the greatest soul city.
Christ, I hope this is a joke.
If not, we need a "Lost In The Sauce" graemlin up here immediately.
No shit..and as far as Stax being "all but owned" by a NYC company, I call bullshit...Shady acquisition moves does not constitute "ownership" in the true sense of the word. I aint buying this "Stax is NYC" bullshit. Otis' soul output is a product of Memphis. Hell, he was a Little Richard imitator more or less before he recorded in Memphis..and Aretha recorded soul music before she was on Atlantic. Also, Atlantic was copying/exploiting and importing the southern soul sound...they didnt invent it in any sense...yeah they got the records in the shops and you cant front on that, but please dont come on here and tell us the music wouldnt have been created if it wasnt for NYC.
Comments
Even per capita Chicago buries Detroit. TRUST ME.
If Chicago had the same population as Detroit this would still be the case.
I am looking at actual numbers, you are speculating.
I am not discounting Detroit's contribution, I'm talking VOLUME.
by your own logic, lacking a comprehensive Detroit list for comparison, YOUR claims are also mere speculation
perhaps someone in texas could take up the michigansoulrecordings.com burden? har de har
---
what was that "soul bbq" quip about?
it actually says "pound for pound"...that means quantity...not quality, or association with...(hence soul bbq)
You are focusing on "pound for pound" and ignoring "GREATEST".
NYC has Ray Charles, NYC has Aretha, NYC has Otis Redding. Detroit & Chicago don't even have artists who can be mentioned in the same breath. Even Motown wasn't taken seriously until they did it at the Apollo.
Ha ha, just kidding.
lol
I do have a rather large list of Detroit records, and a very informed idea of the city's numbers.
WHEN IS SOMEONE FROM MICHIGAN GOING TO PUT A COMPREHENSIVE LIST TOGETHER FOR ALL TO SEE?
But seriously, Breck, there's really no comparison when it comes to the question of volume.
well, I'm just going by what it said on the original question...
That's fine... I'm just saying it's a silly debate over sheer quantity. None of us think of our collections in sheer quantity so why try ranking the cities that way?
As I have already proved. The GREATEST soul music comes from NYC. If someone wants to argue that the greatest funk music comes from Cleveland or NOLA, I'm ready to listen.
Sorry Detroit and Chicago, but if your groups were any good they would have gone to NYC.
agreed....but......if it was quality...I'd stick with Detroit and Chicago as top 2...they can fight it out amongst themselves in my crates...i personally just love the soul sounds coming out of both areas...call me crazy...I'm not really speaking on funk here...
Ray Charles,Aretha,Otis Redding were from the south.... not NYC (which I'm sure you're well aware of)
There should be a regional DJ competition where DJs spin 2 hours of the best 45s from their state and a panelist of British judges breaks it down Simon Cowell style.
Haha.
"That was the most booohhhhring, ab-surd, worthless performance I've..." (audience boos) "...look mate, I've played jukeboxes a toss more worthwhile than your selection there. Pants. Absolutely horrid."
and therein lies our solution...
Absolutely
but born in Memphis
I still ride for the Memphis/Detroit tag team...those 2 cities invented it simultaneously, and brought it to the world on a HUGE scale...
Ray Charles is from Georgia. He recorded in LA before going to NYC[/b] to record for a NYC[/b] with a NYC[/b] producer. Soul music was invented by Ray Charles in NYC[/b]. All you all are playing catch up.
Aretha is from Detroit, and left as soon as she had musical aspirations. He vision was first realized in NYC[/b] with the song Soulville. She then extended that vision when she signed to an independent NYC[/b] record label and her NYC[/b] producer recorded her for one song in Muscle Shoals. All of her other soul hits were recorded in NYC[/b] usually with NYC[/b] studio musicians, tho it is true some Southern musicians came up to record with her.
Otis Redding was from Georgia. He recorded in Memphis. He recorded for a Memphis label that was all but owned by the same NYC[/b] label that Aretha would record for.
Where they are from means nothing in this discussion.
Pound for pound, greatsest for greatest, Atlantic Records released more soul music than Detroit and Chicago combined.
Sure some soul stars played at little Detroit armature hour clubs. And they all played at the Regal in Chicago, but they were nothing until they played at the Apollo in NYC[/b]. Why? Because NYC[/b] was the greatest soul city.
IE: The world's best flyweight boxer might not beat the 10th ranked heavyweight, but he's a better boxer "pound for pound". Number of releases should be considered but shouldn't by any means be the only thing looked at. Maybe there should be similar divisions here. Major cities, Big cities, Minor cities.
That being said, there's a good case to be made for Chicago as it combines sheer VOLUME of QUALITY output and managed to weave the music into the culture of the city, which I think is immensely important. Did any New York soul brothers and sisters feel a personal connection to Aretha Franklin's Atlantic sides? No, that was commercial music recorded for a national audience.
wow...I must have missed this one...I could actually hear simon saying this...haha
no...we'll tell you what you meant! it's bigger than you now...let the dust settle...after breck and dante list discographies of their perspective champions...and we can all decide
besides didn't we already book simon, james trouble, giles peterson, and keb darge to judge the 2 hour "rep your soul city" dj competition?
That's good point. If it's true. New York, where you at?
Sticking to that argument. Let's take Motown straight out of the mix. Detroit what you got now?
Almost the entire stables of Invictus, Hot Wax, Ric Tic, Golden World, Ollie McLaughlin's labels (Carla, Karen, etc.) and Revilot.
And if ya want me to name names:
The Parliaments, Andre Williams, the Fantastic Four, J.J. Barnes, the Flaming Ember, Steve Mancha, Dennis Coffey, the Capitols, Deon Jackson, the Dramatics, Gino Washington, Angelo Bond, Darrell Banks, 100 Proof Aged In Soul, Chairmen Of The Board (they came from all over, but I believe they were based in Detroit when they had their hits), Eighth Day, the Holidays, Jimmy Delphs, the (Fabulous) Counts for starters.
And I'm sticking with the relative hitmakers - all these acts had some degree of success, and I wouldn't be getting anywhere by naming obscurities. Sure, most of these people never became superstars, and quite a few of them worked at Motown in some capacity, but they did prove that there was life in Detroit beyond Hitsville U.S.A..
Christ, I hope this is a joke.
If not, we need a "Lost In The Sauce" graemlin up here immediately.
No shit..and as far as Stax being "all but owned" by a NYC company, I call bullshit...Shady acquisition moves does not constitute "ownership" in the true sense of the word. I aint buying this "Stax is NYC" bullshit. Otis' soul output is a product of Memphis. Hell, he was a Little Richard imitator more or less before he recorded in Memphis..and Aretha recorded soul music before she was on Atlantic. Also, Atlantic was copying/exploiting and importing the southern soul sound...they didnt invent it in any sense...yeah they got the records in the shops and you cant front on that, but please dont come on here and tell us the music wouldnt have been created if it wasnt for NYC.