THE WIRE R.I.P.

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  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    I just need to know the name of the actress that was playing Lesters wife...

    No shit! I been curious about her since she was a stripper at Orlando's!

    And as for Dukie, Prezbo can't adopt them all, and he can't do for people what they can't do for themselves....it's the sad tragic truth. The fact that all 4 kids are still breathing, and one is flourishing with a solid family is maybe better than the actual odds in the real world for kids in those situations.

    I thought the scene with Dukie and Pooh in the shoe store a couple episodes back wa one of the most realistic scenes of the season. It showed how the world of the street and the 'real' world intersect, and how mundane that intersection really is. People just get older and tired of the bullshit and have to trade it in. Not because there is some enlightened morality at play, but just because shit gets old.

  • So, parallels-wise...

    Greggs => McNulty
    Michael => Omar
    Sydnor => Freamon?
    Dukie => Bubs (pre-clean, of course)
    Slim => Joe?
    Chris => Wee-Bey?

    Nothing serious and I'm really not trying to read into too much, but I think it's safe to say that some of these were intentional.

    Along this thinking you could also add:

    Carver (started out wild/corrupt - remember him & Herc stuffing drug $ in their pockets on that raid in an earlier season? - & a company man - Burrell's snitch in the detail; now disillusioned w/ the system & trying to right it as an officer)

    => Daniels

  • i have no access to see this final episode and im heated...im in europe and am bugging...can somebody please pm a link to where i can see this ? i kow 40 0z king had it up on his blog..but took it down.
    help.

  • twoplytwoply Only Built 4 Manzanita Links 2,914 Posts


    I loved Simon popping up in a final newsroom scene, kind of saying "yeah if I had it my way I'd still be writing for you guys."


    The "Save Our Sun" sign on the cubicle was a nice touch.


    Aside from the endings, loose or tied, I have to say that this was one of the most exciting few final episodes of a show I've ever seen, largely because of McNulty's fabricated serial killer case. Hamsterdam was exciting in a political sense. Showing the pros and cons of what might happen if drugs were conditionally legalized in such a realistic way is fairly revolutionary in my mind. Bunny's reversal of the status quo in the middle school was also compelling. The concept of real learning, as opposed to rote drilling in hopes of raising test scores, is revolutionary. The imaginary serial killer was not revolutionary, I guess, but it made for some damn good television. I so wanted him to succeed, but in doing so I felt like an accomplice to the dramatic, tense, and entirely harebrained scheme.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    and entirely harebrained scheme.

    I think the 'serial killer' case was the weakest part of the entire season. There are undoubtedly more probable schemes that would have exposed the big lies and the need for them better than that particular thread. I just thought it was the most contrived thing on a show that generally avoids contrivance. It just never worked for me.

  • twoplytwoply Only Built 4 Manzanita Links 2,914 Posts
    and entirely harebrained scheme.

    I think the 'serial killer' case was the weakest part of the entire season. There are undoubtedly more probable schemes that would have exposed the big lies and the need for them better than that particular thread. I just thought it was the most contrived thing on a show that generally avoids contrivance. It just never worked for me.

    I hear you, but I think it was appropriate that McNulty and Freamon went out in a big way. While this may not have been the ideal vehicle, for me it definitely upped the level of intensity.

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    when they were giving McNulty the send off at the bar were we supposed to assume that a lot of those people knew what he had done or that none of them did? Landsman said something about if it were his body on the street he'd want McNulty to come investigate and Bunk chimes in "It'd probably be Jimmy who put it there."

    I'm assuming the whole thing had to be a secret, but did all the cops "talk amongst themselves"?

  • ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
    and entirely harebrained scheme.

    I think the 'serial killer' case was the weakest part of the entire season. There are undoubtedly more probable schemes that would have exposed the big lies and the need for them better than that particular thread. I just thought it was the most contrived thing on a show that generally avoids contrivance. It just never worked for me.

    It also encouraged a very basic view of the newsroom. I was unimpressed with the hackneyed story of one rogue reporter. There are seismic changes afoot in the newsroom - technological convergence, increasingly competitive marketplace, downsizing. These were merely hinted at, in favor of the fabulist plot. Admittedly, that has more commonalities with Simon's dramatic style, but the Wire has been arguably more effective in earlier seasons in critiquing the systems it features.

  • ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
    when they were giving McNulty the send off at the bar were we supposed to assume that a lot of those people knew what he had done or that none of them did? Landsman said something about if it were his body on the street he'd want McNulty to come investigate and Bunk chimes in "It'd probably be Jimmy who put it there."

    I'm assuming the whole thing had to be a secret, but did all the cops "talk amongst themselves"?

    I think it could be a reference to the friction between Jay and McNulty. Otherwise, yeah, it was probably a poorly-kept secret, the cops had to know something was fishy.

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    It's ironic in a way that Simon ground his bitter axe two fold by baiting all the reporters smitten with "The Wire" into lambasting the serial killer plot and, in the process, missing his true critique of the newspaper -- that the newspaper doesn't get all the major stories of the city: Carcetti's pandering to the homeless was a ploy in his race for governor, largly ignoring Prop Joe and Omar's murders, the never-ending stat-juking, etc.

    Everyone was too caught up in the sexy serial killer story while all the stuff that really mattered was uncovered, both in "The Wire" itself and in the coverage of the show. Sure a few critics stuck in lines here and there about how the paper missed the story, but everyone pretty much wrote: "The serial killer thing seems contrived."

    Simon talks a bit about that in a decent interview on Salon.com.

  • bluesnagbluesnag 1,285 Posts
    It's ironic in a way that Simon ground his bitter axe two fold by baiting all the reporters smitten with "The Wire" into lambasting the serial killer plot and, in the process, missing his true critique of the newspaper -- that the newspaper doesn't get all the major stories of the city: Carcetti's pandering to the homeless was a ploy in his race for governor, largly ignoring Prop Joe and Omar's murders, the never-ending stat-juking, etc.

    Everyone was too caught up in the sexy serial killer story while all the stuff that really mattered was uncovered, both in "The Wire" itself and in the coverage of the show. Sure a few critics stuck in lines here and there about how the paper missed the story, but everyone pretty much wrote: "The serial killer thing seems contrived."

    Simon talks a bit about that in a decent interview on Salon.com.

    I had never thought of it like that. Did he really plan that? I guess I should read some of the interviews.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    and entirely harebrained scheme.

    I think the 'serial killer' case was the weakest part of the entire season. There are undoubtedly more probable schemes that would have exposed the big lies and the need for them better than that particular thread. I just thought it was the most contrived thing on a show that generally avoids contrivance. It just never worked for me.

    It also encouraged a very basic view of the newsroom. I was unimpressed with the hackneyed story of one rogue reporter. There are seismic changes afoot in the newsroom - technological convergence, increasingly competitive marketplace, downsizing. These were merely hinted at, in favor of the fabulist plot. Admittedly, that has more commonalities with Simon's dramatic style, but the Wire has been arguably more effective in earlier seasons in critiquing the systems it features.

    As good as Simon and Co have been with the Wire, I honestly think the failure of the Newspaper plotline (and in the context of the entire series, IMO, it's only major failing)was a matter of being too close to it's subject matter. He was trying too hard to drive certain points home, and it seemed as contrived and one-dimensional as the Serial Killer deal. I mean, everything Gus Haynes did was ethical and his insticts were always right on, and the bosses were all stupid and the lying reporter Scott was an unlikable putz. That's not the kind of characters that made the cops, City Hall and the Street players credible.

    All in all, one major failure in a series that ran 5 seasons is pretty good stats. It didn't ruin it, but it made this last season flatter than the rest for me.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    It's ironic in a way that Simon ground his bitter axe two fold by baiting all the reporters smitten with "The Wire" into lambasting the serial killer plot and, in the process, missing his true critique of the newspaper -- that the newspaper doesn't get all the major stories of the city: Carcetti's pandering to the homeless was a ploy in his race for governor, largly ignoring Prop Joe and Omar's murders, the never-ending stat-juking, etc.

    Everyone was too caught up in the sexy serial killer story while all the stuff that really mattered was uncovered, both in "The Wire" itself and in the coverage of the show. Sure a few critics stuck in lines here and there about how the paper missed the story, but everyone pretty much wrote: "The serial killer thing seems contrived."

    Simon talks a bit about that in a decent interview on Salon.com.

    I had never thought of it like that. Did he really plan that? I guess I should read some of the interviews.

    That's exactly what he's been saying - that the idea of oversimplifying the newsroom was intentional, to show how not only the newspaper but even viewers themselves would miss the forest for the trees.

    People are saying "where's the beef" - and that's his point. Seems like a lot of people bit it hook line and sinker. It's pretty awesome.

    I've mentioned this before (so has Simon) but nobody was tripping about oversimplified archetypes of "bad politician", "bad cop", "bad school administrator" in seasons 1-4...

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    It's ironic in a way that Simon ground his bitter axe two fold by baiting all the reporters smitten with "The Wire" into lambasting the serial killer plot and, in the process, missing his true critique of the newspaper -- that the newspaper doesn't get all the major stories of the city: Carcetti's pandering to the homeless was a ploy in his race for governor, largly ignoring Prop Joe and Omar's murders, the never-ending stat-juking, etc.

    Everyone was too caught up in the sexy serial killer story while all the stuff that really mattered was uncovered, both in "The Wire" itself and in the coverage of the show. Sure a few critics stuck in lines here and there about how the paper missed the story, but everyone pretty much wrote: "The serial killer thing seems contrived."

    Simon talks a bit about that in a decent interview on Salon.com.

    I had never thought of it like that. Did he really plan that? I guess I should read some of the interviews.

    That's exactly what he's been saying - that the idea of oversimplifying the newsroom was intentional, to show how not only the newspaper but even viewers themselves would miss the forest for the trees.

    People are saying "where's the beef" - and that's his point. Seems like a lot of people bit it hook line and sinker. It's pretty awesome.

    I've mentioned this before (so has Simon) but nobody was tripping about oversimplified archetypes of "bad politician", "bad cop", "bad school administrator" in seasons 1-4...

    That's because as singular characters, they were balanced out by other characters who showed the range of the environments and WHY they are dysfunctional, not just how. Wether or not he intended to oversimplify or not, it was still a failure, as these things go.

  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    I thoroughly enjoyed the finale; one could nitpick and be critical of certain scenes, but what's the point? This was the end of one of the greatest shows on TV and Simon wrapped it up pretty neatly. The ending montage was somewhat of a gratuitious plot device (almost derivative of the Six Feet Under "20 years forward" ending), but it left me satisfied. Some of my high points:

    - Slim Charles stepping up and blasting an arrogant, shit-talking Cheese. There was speculation Cheese would meet his maker, but the way it was done was dramatic and unexpected. Love that Slim has stepped up from being the eternal soldier to a general in his own right.

    - The shock on Maurice Levy's face when he was exposed for bribing the court dude to get grand jury docs. Probably the only time Faux Levy was ever shook on this show. But I guess Levy bounces back by springing the kid Marlo out of jail and then celebrating with Herc over the future. Levy was the true kingpin in the series.

    - Dukie's plummet into the hell of drug abuse was not a good look, but tugged on my heartstrings like nothing else. Oh Simon

    - Yeah I hate McNulty, but glad he and Freamon came out relatively unscathed (but retired from the force) at the end. The Irish "wake" was a good scene. Glad Kima had the balls to reveal she was the snith.

    - Mike's transformation to a stick-up kid in the same vein as Omar was unexpected and awesome.

    Some not so high points:

    - I don't think anyone really cared what happened at the Sun. Sorry, did not shed a tear when Alma was fired.

    - Kenard da god in cuffs? Tell me it ain't so.

    - How did the Polish, rat-face f*ck become police commisioner? How many times have they said being white disqualifies you for that job?

    - They brought back Prezbo and Shardene and should have had cameos from Avon and little dude with braids who likes to jack cars.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    It's ironic in a way that Simon ground his bitter axe two fold by baiting all the reporters smitten with "The Wire" into lambasting the serial killer plot and, in the process, missing his true critique of the newspaper -- that the newspaper doesn't get all the major stories of the city: Carcetti's pandering to the homeless was a ploy in his race for governor, largly ignoring Prop Joe and Omar's murders, the never-ending stat-juking, etc.

    Everyone was too caught up in the sexy serial killer story while all the stuff that really mattered was uncovered, both in "The Wire" itself and in the coverage of the show. Sure a few critics stuck in lines here and there about how the paper missed the story, but everyone pretty much wrote: "The serial killer thing seems contrived."

    Simon talks a bit about that in a decent interview on Salon.com.

    I had never thought of it like that. Did he really plan that? I guess I should read some of the interviews.

    That's exactly what he's been saying - that the idea of oversimplifying the newsroom was intentional, to show how not only the newspaper but even viewers themselves would miss the forest for the trees.

    People are saying "where's the beef" - and that's his point. Seems like a lot of people bit it hook line and sinker. It's pretty awesome.

    I've mentioned this before (so has Simon) but nobody was tripping about oversimplified archetypes of "bad politician", "bad cop", "bad school administrator" in seasons 1-4...

    That's because as singular characters, they were balanced out by other characters who showed the range of the environments and WHY they are dysfunctional, not just how. Wether or not he intended to oversimplify or not, it was still a failure, as these things go.

    I just don't know if I agree with that.

    Obviously, Gus Haynes was a great character.

    Twigg, albeit short-lived, was one of my favorites this season. Jay Spry was one of the best characters of the entire show IMO. It's too bad they got so little screen time.

    Zorzi had a couple of great lines, my favorite being at the mayor's press conference when he mutters under his breath, "oh, you're so butch."

    My main criticism is that none of these characters were introduced earlier in the show so we really didn't have time to get to know them beyond these ten episodes. That handicapped the season IMO. But I can't really agree that there was no balance.

    It would've been great to delve into the complex issues that confront newspapers today but when was there time to do that? I suppose instead of Templeton making up stories they could've focused on sales figures and internet readership and how a paper makes money when the news is out there for free but that would've been mighty dry...

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts

    Obviously, Gus Haynes was a great character.

    I couldn't disagree more.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts

    Obviously, Gus Haynes was a great character.

    I couldn't disagree more.

    Aw man... you didn't like Gus? I thought he was great.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts

    Obviously, Gus Haynes was a great character.

    I couldn't disagree more.

    Aw man... you didn't like Gus? I thought he was great.

    Good actor, I was pulling for him to be interesting, but it was all too pat. He was always the wisened editor, with perfect instincts for the job, etc. The way they wrote him (and a lot of that Newspaper room dialogue) seemed totally out of character for actual newspaper hacks. It pains me to say it, because I think the rest of the show has always been of the highest quality, but I felt it was a poorly drawn, poorly written character, whose contrast with truly innovative and truthful characters like Omar and Landsman (the list goes on and on) just made it more apparent that they were stretching it too far.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I just don't see that as all that different from the "wisened beat cop", the "wisened school teacher", "wisened political advisor", etc

    It's easy to contrast Gus Haynes with Omar Little but I fail to see a big difference between him and, say, Norm Wilson.

    I have no experience in the newsroom so perhaps that's the difference - it seems like a lot of the criticism of it is leveled from people within the profession. Which is interesting.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    I just don't see that as all that different from the "wisened beat cop", the "wisened school teacher", "wisened political advisor", etc

    It's easy to contrast Gus Haynes with Omar Little but I fail to see a big difference between him and, say, Norm Wilson.

    I have no experience in the newsroom so perhaps that's the difference - it seems like a lot of the criticism of it is leveled from people within the profession. Which is interesting.

    You may be right about him and Norm Wilson, but it seems like the Gus character was meant to be more pivotal than Norman's, which was still better realized, IMO, than Gus. Norman kept even his boss guessing when it came to his own opinions, but for the viewers was often used ans a way to fill in the political, even technical detail in a lot of the meetings. As a vehicle for that dry info, Norman was a masterful stroke. Gus felt more like a gimmick to get viewer's to sympathize with how badly the good Newspaper people have been treated, that the smart ones get screwed and the dumb ones run shit. Even if that was the actual truth of the matter, it seems incongruous with how the rest of the show was written. And it seemed a bit bitter on Simon's part. I can't say I blame him, but I just think he pressed too hard.

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    fairwell The Wire. I shall revisit you someday soon.



  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    fairwell The Wire. I shall revisit you someday soon.



    Was that Dee wearing a helmet?

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Seeing Cheese getting shot was great fun, no doubt, but Michael killing Snoop was more emotionally powerful and I felt like the Duquan/Prezbo interaction fizzled...I think it would have worked earlier in the season.

    This is a small complaint but while I found the idea of Dukie becoming a junkie to be plausible, it just moved a little fast for me. I guess I would have wanted an extra scene or two somewhere that demonstrated that descent but that's a nitpick. Shit was heartbreaking regardless.

    On the other hand, it was good to see Bubs getting to come up stairs. His "redemption"/recovery this season was just a touch melodramatic (which is rare for the show) but I was glad to see it. It gave the season some real heart where I felt like it lacked otherwise ("Goodnight Moon" remixes included).

    I'm surprised people are surprised at Valchek's ascension? It's actually pretty perfect in many ways: he's the ideal commissioner in the corrupt, inept bureaucratic world that Simon has envisioned. His Whiteness - as others have noted - is overcome by his complete malleability by the powers that be. In this case, since we can presume that Nerise became mayor, she represents the power bloc - at that point, Valchek's race is less relevant since he's easily corruptible nature makes him a better political choice over Daniels.

    I was bummed to see him go out like that. I guess it was foreshadowed numerous times but I was still surprised to see it go down.

    Likewise, I kind of marveled at how quickly and efficiently the show defused the entire serial killer thing. It was a bit too deux ex machina but like someone else said, it was fun to watch McNulty solve the murder in about 10 seconds. I also was impressed at how easily - and believably - Griggs confession + forgiveness went over with Lester and McNulty. "I guess if you did it - it had to be done." Ok, that worked.

    Personally, I still don't get Herc's motivations but I also feel like he didn't get much room to move this season, especially compared to last. That said, his conversation with Carver outside the precinct was one of my favorite moments of the season.

    Pained as I was at much of the season, man, I'm still bummed it's over. It's not that I needed to see the show go on and on, but this was something to look forward to every 1.5 years or so. However vocal I was that Simon slipped up with this season, I'll definitely be checking for his next project.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts


    I'm surprised people are surprised at Valchek's ascension? It's actually pretty perfect in many ways: he's the ideal commissioner in the corrupt, inept bureaucratic world that Simon has envisioned. His Whiteness - as others have noted - is overcome by his complete malleability by the powers that be. In this case, since we can presume that Nerise became mayor, she represents the power bloc - at that point, Valchek's race is less relevant since he's easily corruptible nature makes him a better political choice over Daniels.

    In cities like Baltimore and DC, promoting a White Commissioner/Police Chief is almost seen as 'progressive', in the sense that it is not the expected move for the demographics of the city. Happened here when Mayor Fenty forced out Police Chief Ramsey and promoted a white female who was a top ranked officer in his old Ward. It's all politics, baby.

  • dollar_bindollar_bin I heartily endorse this product and/or event 2,326 Posts
    fairwell The Wire. I shall revisit you someday soon.



    Was that Dee wearing a helmet?

    It's Carcetti's Wife

  • I am not going to read this thread(just finished seasons 1-2 yesterday), but does anyone happen to have a torrent link or something for 3-5(or just 3)? One local video rental store has seasons 3 and 4, but the first disc of the 3rd season is missing..and I ain't about to go ahead and watch it w/o it. PMs are welcome!

  • dollar_bindollar_bin I heartily endorse this product and/or event 2,326 Posts


    I'm surprised people are surprised at Valchek's ascension? It's actually pretty perfect in many ways: he's the ideal commissioner in the corrupt, inept bureaucratic world that Simon has envisioned. His Whiteness - as others have noted - is overcome by his complete malleability by the powers that be. In this case, since we can presume that Nerise became mayor, she represents the power bloc - at that point, Valchek's race is less relevant since he's easily corruptible nature makes him a better political choice over Daniels.

    In cities like Baltimore and DC, promoting a White Commissioner/Police Chief is almost seen as 'progressive', in the sense that it is not the expected move for the demographics of the city. Happened here when Mayor Fenty forced out Police Chief Ramsey and promoted a white female who was a top ranked officer in his old Ward. It's all politics, baby.

    Valchek plays the system like a Stradivarius. He's the wrong man for the job for numerous reasons, but through his perseverant manipulations he descends along the path of least resistance into a position of power. No need to point out that this represents yet another flaw in the institutions Simon is indicting. Plus, I called that shit at episode 3.

  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    Likewise, I kind of marveled at how quickly and efficiently the show defused the entire serial killer thing. It was a bit too deux ex machina but like someone else said, it was fun to watch McNulty solve the murder in about 10 seconds. I also was impressed at how easily - and believably - Griggs confession + forgiveness went over with Lester and McNulty. "I guess if you did it - it had to be done." Ok, that worked.

    Hah, the resolution of the murder was indeed a bit too quick and too neat. As was Freamon finding out who the leak was at the court. I guess all it takes is a an asset/financial information search, which conceivably could have been done much earlier.

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    And Freamon must have had Shardene wrapped around his finger. Dude probably put in longer hours than McNulty, working a host of cases, and we had exactly zero scenes of him getting bitched out on the homefront.

    Also, I wonder if Chris ended up giving Michael the free pass on the murder of his step dad. That was the only one they had DNA evidence and Michael surely could have picked up some sort of accessory charge. Even with his as the new Omar, Baltimore isn't that big where he'd be on the loose forever.
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