See, that's the problem. People die or retire, and there's a tendency to lionize them, forgetting their failings and shortcomings and elevating them far beyond the reality of their accomplishments. I think it does an extreme disservice to the person involved. Part of what makes a person's triumphs so great is that they are human, and have failed so often, just like the rest of us. Favre was a great QB. He was not the best, nor was he one of the top 5 in my opinion. Yet he'll be talked about like he was the greatest thing ever to strap on cleats for the next week plus.
And it's not a new phenomenon. The Romans had a habit of deifying their fallen emperors. According to the historian Seutonius, the lat words of the emperor Vespasian as he lay dying were "Vae, puto, deus fio,"
Rough translation: "Damnit, I think I'm becoming a god."
And it's not a new phenomenon. The Romans had a habit of deifying their fallen emperors. According to the historian Seutonius, the lat words of the emperor Vespasian as he lay dying were "Vae, puto, deus fio,"
Rough translation: "Damnit, I think I'm becoming a god."
Great last words. I'm stealing that for when the time comes.
And it's not a new phenomenon. The Romans had a habit of deifying their fallen emperors. According to the historian Seutonius, the lat words of the emperor Vespasian as he lay dying were "Vae, puto, deus fio,"
Rough translation: "Damnit, I think I'm becoming a god."
Great last words. I'm stealing that for when the time comes.
Cool. Just make sure you pronounce it right so when people go to look up what you said they don't think you went out saying "Damnit, I think I'm becoming a jelly doughnut" or something.
And Fran Tarkenton? No way a dude who lost four Super Bowls gets on the all-time list. You gonna ride for Jim Kelly too? Nice players, but not in the pantheon.
It makes more sense to consider them than Super Bowl winners like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.
And Fran Tarkenton? No way a dude who lost four Super Bowls gets on the all-time list. You gonna ride for Jim Kelly too? Nice players, but not in the pantheon.
It makes more sense to consider them than Super Bowl winners like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.
Would anyone seriously consider those guys? Championships + numbers = all time greats, you can't have one and not the other.
And Fran Tarkenton? No way a dude who lost four Super Bowls gets on the all-time list. You gonna ride for Jim Kelly too? Nice players, but not in the pantheon.
It makes more sense to consider them than Super Bowl winners like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.
Would anyone seriously consider those guys? Championships + numbers = all time greats, you can't have one and not the other.
Favre won only one Super Bowl.
Four wins[/b]:
Terry Bradshaw Joe Montana
Three wins[/b]:
Tom Brady Troy Aikman
Two wins[/b]:
John Elway Bob Griese Jim Plunkett Bart Starr Roger Staubach
Favre's one win puts him up there with the illustrious likes of Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Len Dawson. Who's Len Dawson, you ask? Exactly.
I wish he was coming back for one more season. One of my favorite players to watch ever, regardless of fan affiliation.
I disagree, I think its good he's leaving on a high. No way they will have such a good season next year. I like Brett, I don't want to see him get hurt.
And this thread, all this yakity yak about top 5 quarterbacks and shit, motherfuckers, shut up. Brett is a great quarterback and had a great career, the man is retiring, let his career have some shine in the media. It'll all be over soon, and we can all talk draft and free agency. Until then, give Brett his due and keep it moving.
let his career have some shine in the media. It'll all be over soon, and we can all talk draft and free agency. Until then, give Brett his due and keep it moving.
See, that's the problem. People die or retire, and there's a tendency to lionize them, forgetting their failings and shortcomings and elevating them far beyond the reality of their accomplishments. I think it does an extreme disservice to the person involved. Part of what makes a person's triumphs so great is that they are human, and have failed so often, just like the rest of us. Favre was a great QB. He was not the best, nor was he one of the top 5 in my opinion. Yet he'll be talked about like he was the greatest thing ever to strap on cleats for the next week plus.
He's not George Washington or Abe Lincoln, dude. He's not getting a monument, you won't have to make a pilgrimage to Green Bay, there won't be a national day of attonement. Its Frickin' Brett Farve, we don't have to pick apart his career to show his faults. People can proclaim his greatness all they want for the next few weeks, eventually he'll fade into the sunset like all other quarterbacks, great or not. Man, you Patritos fans lost the Super Bowl and now have to throw salt all over the place.
Nah, it's not about that. I guess I turned this more into a critique of the phenomenon of lionizing the departed. Brett Favre was a great quarterback. I'll let it stand at that.
Now Kurt Cobain....that dude was a mediocre singer in a mediocre band.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Nah, it's not about that. I guess I turned this more into a critique of the phenomenon of lionizing the departed. Brett Favre was a great quarterback. I'll let it stand at that.
Now Kurt Cobain....that dude was a mediocre singer in a mediocre band.
Yeah, nobody liked Kurt Cobain until he died.
It was his demise that made all of those songs so great...obviously.
Nah, it's not about that. I guess I turned this more into a critique of the phenomenon of lionizing the departed. Brett Favre was a great quarterback. I'll let it stand at that.
Now Kurt Cobain....that dude was a mediocre singer in a mediocre band.
Yeah, nobody liked Kurt Cobain until he died.
It was his demise that made all of those songs so great...obviously.
That was a parody of my own inflammatory comments earlier in the thread.
You may not be aware of this, but people played professional football before 1979.
But I try not to speak too much on players I didn't watch, so that's why I threw the "IMO" in there. Send me comprehensive DVDs on the other guys you want considered adn I'll let you know.
You may not be aware of this, but people played professional football before 1979.
It took you a day to come up w/ that?
Yes.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Dude is the Carl Yastrzemski of quarterbacks. A good player, but not the best by any means. Not even in the top five. His numbers are predominantly based on career longevity.
Hate me now.
I agree with the Favre part of this, but Yaz did win a triple crown.
Dude is the Carl Yastrzemski of quarterbacks. A good player, but not the best by any means. Not even in the top five. His numbers are predominantly based on career longevity.
Hate me now.
I agree with the Favre part of this, but Yaz did win a triple crown.
1967, baby! The year of The Impossible Dream. Wonderful season. Not so wonderful record.
With the rarity of that accomplishment, I thought it was roughly analogous to Favre's MVP wins.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Better or as good as Favre:
Montana Elway Marino
You may not be aware of this, but people played professional football before 1979.
But I try not to speak too much on players I didn't watch, so that's why I threw the "IMO" in there.
And Fran Tarkenton? No way a dude who lost four Super Bowls gets on the all-time list. You gonna ride for Jim Kelly too? Nice players, but not in the pantheon.
It makes more sense to consider them than Super Bowl winners like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.
Would anyone seriously consider those guys? Championships + numbers = all time greats, you can't have one and not the other.
So, Barry Sanders should never enter the discussion of all time great running backs?
It just seems flawed to count team championships so high in comparing individuals. (Not that comparing individuals from different eras isn't retarded to begin with, but it passes the time.)
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Better or as good as Favre:
Montana Elway Marino
You may not be aware of this, but people played professional football before 1979.
But I try not to speak too much on players I didn't watch, so that's why I threw the "IMO" in there.
Did you miss seeing Warren Moon play?
Way better than Favre...system or not.
No I didn't miss seeing him play but I can't co-sign your assertion. You might be a bit biased. (Houston related).
No, it's skills-related.
Plus, had Moon not had to spend all of those years in Canada...he'd be the one with all of the career NFL passing records.
Favre's one win puts him up there with the illustrious likes of Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Len Dawson. Who's Len Dawson, you ask? Exactly.
Len Dawson is in the Hall of Fame. He hosted HBO's Inside the NFL for 23 years. Be thankful this is a record and not a sports forum, or you'd really be showing your ass.
Favre's one win puts him up there with the illustrious likes of Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Len Dawson. Who's Len Dawson, you ask? Exactly.
Len Dawson is in the Hall of Fame. He hosted HBO's Inside the NFL for 23 years. Be thankful this is a record and not a sports forum, or you'd really be showing your ass.
You're right. Len Dawson is now number three on my personal top five quarterbacks of all time. Sorry, Joe Montana!
Peyton Manning Tom Brady Johnny Unitas Joe Montana Bart Starr Fran Tarkenton Joe Namath John Elway Dan Marino Brett Favre Terry Bradshaw Roger Staubach Steve Young Len Dawson[/b]
And Fran Tarkenton? No way a dude who lost four Super Bowls gets on the all-time list. You gonna ride for Jim Kelly too? Nice players, but not in the pantheon.
It makes more sense to consider them than Super Bowl winners like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.
Would anyone seriously consider those guys? Championships + numbers = all time greats, you can't have one and not the other.
Favre won only one Super Bowl.
Four wins[/b]:
Terry Bradshaw Joe Montana
Three wins[/b]:
Tom Brady Troy Aikman
Two wins[/b]:
John Elway Bob Griese Jim Plunkett Bart Starr Roger Staubach
Favre's one win puts him up there with the illustrious likes of Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Len Dawson. Who's Len Dawson, you ask? Exactly.
Dude, I'm almost 40, I know who Len Dawson was. Farve also won the league MVP 3 times, and holds the records or is in the top 5 of pretty much every category for QB's (negative and positive, I know). None of the other one time champs you named are anywhere near that. Don't be condescending, please.
Again, I'm not a Farve fan, just someone who appreciates great players.
Comments
See, that's the problem. People die or retire, and there's a tendency to lionize them, forgetting their failings and shortcomings and elevating them far beyond the reality of their accomplishments. I think it does an extreme disservice to the person involved. Part of what makes a person's triumphs so great is that they are human, and have failed so often, just like the rest of us. Favre was a great QB. He was not the best, nor was he one of the top 5 in my opinion. Yet he'll be talked about like he was the greatest thing ever to strap on cleats for the next week plus.
And it's not a new phenomenon. The Romans had a habit of deifying their fallen emperors. According to the historian Seutonius, the lat words of the emperor Vespasian as he lay dying were "Vae, puto, deus fio,"
Rough translation: "Damnit, I think I'm becoming a god."
Great last words. I'm stealing that for when the time comes.
Cool. Just make sure you pronounce it right so when people go to look up what you said they don't think you went out saying "Damnit, I think I'm becoming a jelly doughnut" or something.
It makes more sense to consider them than Super Bowl winners like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.
Would anyone seriously consider those guys? Championships + numbers = all time greats, you can't have one and not the other.
Favre won only one Super Bowl.
Four wins[/b]:
Terry Bradshaw
Joe Montana
Three wins[/b]:
Tom Brady
Troy Aikman
Two wins[/b]:
John Elway
Bob Griese
Jim Plunkett
Bart Starr
Roger Staubach
Favre's one win puts him up there with the illustrious likes of Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Len Dawson. Who's Len Dawson, you ask? Exactly.
You may not be aware of this, but people played professional football before 1979.
I disagree, I think its good he's leaving on a high. No way they will have such a good season next year. I like Brett, I don't want to see him get hurt.
And this thread, all this yakity yak about top 5 quarterbacks and shit, motherfuckers, shut up. Brett is a great quarterback and had a great career, the man is retiring, let his career have some shine in the media. It'll all be over soon, and we can all talk draft and free agency. Until then, give Brett his due and keep it moving.
Now Kurt Cobain....that dude was a mediocre singer in a mediocre band.
Yeah, nobody liked Kurt Cobain until he died.
It was his demise that made all of those songs so great...obviously.
That was a parody of my own inflammatory comments earlier in the thread.
Thank you for playing along.
It took you a day to come up w/ that?
But I try not to speak too much on players I didn't watch, so that's why I threw the "IMO" in there. Send me comprehensive DVDs on the other guys you want considered adn I'll let you know.
Yes.
I agree with the Favre part of this, but Yaz did win a triple crown.
1967, baby! The year of The Impossible Dream. Wonderful season. Not so wonderful record.
With the rarity of that accomplishment, I thought it was roughly analogous to Favre's MVP wins.
Did you miss seeing Warren Moon play?
Way better than Favre...system or not.
No I didn't miss seeing him play but I can't co-sign your assertion. You might be a bit biased. (Houston related).
So, Barry Sanders should never enter the discussion of all time great running backs?
It just seems flawed to count team championships so high in comparing individuals. (Not that comparing individuals from different eras isn't retarded to begin with, but it passes the time.)
No, it's skills-related.
Plus, had Moon not had to spend all of those years in Canada...he'd be the one with all of the career NFL passing records.
Len Dawson is in the Hall of Fame. He hosted HBO's Inside the NFL for 23 years. Be thankful this is a record and not a sports forum, or you'd really be showing your ass.
You're right. Len Dawson is now number three on my personal top five quarterbacks of all time. Sorry, Joe Montana!
Tom Brady
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Bart Starr
Fran Tarkenton
Joe Namath
John Elway
Dan Marino
Brett Favre
Terry Bradshaw
Roger Staubach
Steve Young
Len Dawson[/b]
Dude, I'm almost 40, I know who Len Dawson was. Farve also won the league MVP 3 times, and holds the records or is in the top 5 of pretty much every category for QB's (negative and positive, I know). None of the other one time champs you named are anywhere near that. Don't be condescending, please.
Again, I'm not a Farve fan, just someone who appreciates great players.