Toronto, for all its pluses, has some of the worst civic/urban planning ever. If this strip is leveled, not rebuilt/restored, and the Home Depot project expands on this pyre, we will crossing over into some shameful, Montgomery Burns-type shit. Stay tuned.
really? meaning lots of big-box stores and condos going up? I feel like that's happening everywhere... the Mission District comes to mind, and it's happening in Baltimore as quickly as money allows (meaning: slowly).
Or are worse ideas afoot in Toronto?
I would say relative to what Toronto's needs are and what we do with what we got, we are a mess. The Harbour is a wall of condos and the main body that approves development has almost no reigns on its activities. We are an ugly city hellbent on development imo. It's not so much the rate or what, but where and how that I hate, and that is a planning problem that goes back more than 30 yrs here, not just recently like in other places. Condos and chains going up all the time in cities is not just a Toronto thing, I agree. I guess it is better for areas outside of the city, farmland, etc. if density happens in the inner city as opposed to in the outlying areas (not that that expansion is any slower) - but we are trading older historical buildings for newer cookie cutter ones all the time in the downtown area and destroying communities. It would be too boring to get into it here and wouldn't mean too much to the folks who don't know Toronto, but what has happened in places like Liberty Village (sorry DOR), Abell St., King W around Portland, Queen at Gladstone...there's just no thought put into the neighbourhoods surrounding the development.
Businesses whose stores were left gutted included National Sound, Suspect Video, Duke's Cycle and Preloved, a clothing store.
Liberty Village is by far the worst example of condo developement. It's sad that area is totally devoid of culture. At least Toronto Life loves it, hehe.
yeah... baltimore has ass-backward building priorities as well. Stadiums, Cheesecake Factories, and ESPN Zones near the harbor get subsidies and/or tax breaks while the rest of the city crumbles. Meanwhile, Hopkins Hospital buys up rowhouses on the block and lets them decay until the few remaining residents on the block cave in and sell; then Hopkins bulldozes the block and builds another billion-dollar complex while the city doesn't just turn a blind eye to the process but smoothes it along.
The Wire hinted at these issues in interesting ways (and maybe Season 5 hits it even more, haven't seen that yet), but if there were a Season 6, misguided development and related corruption issues could've been a very compelling theme for the season.
I don't know where you guys want people to live in the city? For a first time home buyer, it's not that easy to buy a place unless you buy preconstruction. If these building were not going up. How much do you think real estate prices would be downtown? I like how things are going on in there. It truly has a village feel to it. Come thru in the summer...
I remember riding bikes through that area 5 years ago. If you really believe it's not a better place, I'm not sure what your looking for in a city.
I stand by my earlier comment. I'll take a decent building (tho, I would vote against a Home Depot) over that ugly parking lot any day.
I have quite a few friends just like you, first time homeowners in liberty village. It is considered one of the few safe neighbourhoods 1st time buyers gravitate to for downtown living. Hopefully in time you'll see a good neighbourhood develope, with good markets and affordable restaurants. Unfortunately, Susur, Lee and Thuet do not count.
Not for the meat lover in you but your girl will want to check sushi 930.
I am unaware of said farmers' market, prease hip me to it.
I don't know where you guys want people to live in the city?
Exactly. There were people already living in all those buildings that they tore down and that they plan to tear down. There should be a balance and there is not. First-time home-buyers' right to affordable housing does not, should not, negate others' right to affordable housing.
Are you joking? I know how much downtown prices are and it's not thanks to condos, big box stores or the hottest new bar, it is because of them. Not everyone wants to live in a box aka a condo and those who have families and need bigger spaces, maybe with a patch of green, they are the ones who cannot afford to live here.
It's been a shit day B****, so I'm in no mood for this shit reasoning. It's great that you rode your bike through that neighbourhood five years ago, but I lived there and still do, please don't tell me how much better you think it is, especially given that the whole area is walled off from the rest of the neighbourhood. I'm glad your enclave is "better" but there is a whole world outside those walls.
dl rumour is there was a meth lab, fire dept is playing that down. Folks were listening on scanners and saying that's what fire services were saying.
Since the meth capital of the U.S. is about 20 minutes from me I'm well aware of the damage those labs can do if they blow up. I can see how that could cause so much destruction, especially once you factor in the age of some of those buildings. Damn.
I would say relative to what Toronto's needs are and what we do with what we got, we are a mess. The Harbour is a wall of condos and the main body that approves development has almost no reigns on its activities. We are an ugly city hellbent on development imo. It's not so much the rate or what, but where and how that I hate, and that is a planning problem that goes back more than 30 yrs here, not just recently like in other places. Condos and chains going up all the time in cities is not just a Toronto thing, I agree. I guess it is better for areas outside of the city, farmland, etc. if density happens in the inner city as opposed to in the outlying areas (not that that expansion is any slower) - but we are trading older historical buildings for newer cookie cutter ones all the time in the downtown area and destroying communities. It would be too boring to get into it here and wouldn't mean too much to the folks who don't know Toronto, but what has happened in places like Liberty Village (sorry DOR), Abell St., King W around Portland, Queen at Gladstone...there's just no thought put into the neighbourhoods surrounding the development.
Toronto, with it's severe budget constraints and ever-growing property market, has little incentive to stop the rate of growth which provides so much necessary funds to its budget. Combine this with the new provincial intensification targets/standards and you will likely continue seeing urban condo development which is remarkably similar to the urban sprawl which has already ruined so many communities and agricultural areas in Southern Ontario. Generic "lifestyle" oriented developments which promote isolation from the surrounding community, not integration into it.
This whole mess of an issue has a lot to do with the Harris Government, the OMB and the downloading of services to municipalities by the province during the 90's, but that's an even bigger discussion. They f**ked up our province in ways we haven't even figured out 10 years later.
I would say relative to what Toronto's needs are and what we do with what we got, we are a mess. The Harbour is a wall of condos and the main body that approves development has almost no reigns on its activities. We are an ugly city hellbent on development imo. It's not so much the rate or what, but where and how that I hate, and that is a planning problem that goes back more than 30 yrs here, not just recently like in other places. Condos and chains going up all the time in cities is not just a Toronto thing, I agree. I guess it is better for areas outside of the city, farmland, etc. if density happens in the inner city as opposed to in the outlying areas (not that that expansion is any slower) - but we are trading older historical buildings for newer cookie cutter ones all the time in the downtown area and destroying communities. It would be too boring to get into it here and wouldn't mean too much to the folks who don't know Toronto, but what has happened in places like Liberty Village (sorry DOR), Abell St., King W around Portland, Queen at Gladstone...there's just no thought put into the neighbourhoods surrounding the development.
Toronto, with it's severe budget constraints and ever-growing property market, has little incentive to stop the rate of growth which provides so much necessary funds to its budget. Combine this with the new provincial intensification targets/standards and you will likely continue seeing urban condo development which is remarkably similar to the urban sprawl which has already ruined so many communities and agricultural areas in Southern Ontario. Generic "lifestyle" oriented developments which promote isolation from the surrounding community, not integration into it.
This whole mess of an issue has a lot to do with the Harris Government, the OMB and the downloading of services to municipalities by the province during the 90's, but that's an even bigger discussion. They f**ked up our province in ways we haven't even figured out 10 years later.
Luckily, we've still got records...
Sadly, yes, yes and not-so-sadly, yes. The fall-out from all the fuckery of the Harris gov't will be around for a long long time.
I don't know where you guys want people to live in the city?
Exactly. There were people already living in all those buildings that they tore down and that they plan to tear down. There should be a balance and there is not. First-time home-buyers' right to affordable housing does not, should not, negate others' right to affordable housing.
In liberty village? As I remember from going though there 5 years ago. It's always been mostly a industrial centre. Very few people actually lived in there. Maybe you mean King West village?
"History and Significance of the Site In the 1880???s the KLV lands were used as a provincial prison and following this became a thriving industrial centre, containing the Canadian headquarters of Inglis Manufacturing. Inglis closed the doors on this location in 1991 and demolished its plant. It should be noted that parts of this site had been idle for over 50 years, and developed into a brownfield."
Now most of the old industrial building are filled with mostly industry studio's. Some are being turned into lofts.
Rights to affordable housing? That's what these new buildings provide. I looked into buying all over the downtown core for a year. Not to many places in the city were you can have affordable any more.
Let's not forget. These new building provide the city with alot of new desperately needed money. The new City land transfer tax comes to mind. It's part of the reason the city isn't going bankrupt right now...
Liberty Village being Mowat, Atlantic, Hanna, Fraser? Are we on the same page? Every one of those streets had buildings full of tenants that were booted out.
Liberty Village being Mowat, Atlantic, Hanna, Fraser? Are we on the same page? Every one of those streets had buildings full of tenants that were booted out.
I don't know what that has to do with the condo development going on? As far as I know. It's been only east of the Dominion for the new condos & townhomes. The only building I know west of that (The streets your talking about) is the toy factory lofts on Hanna. Which use to be a factory and not residential. All the land right now that any new condos or townhomes that have been built, was not livable space. it was purely industry and the old prison grounds. Speaking of which. The developer's are going to help restore that building and have a park around it (I hope they keep their word on the park).
"This is a nightmare," said Paul Mantella, owner of National Sound, as he looked at wreckage of the store he's run for 40 years from across the street. "It's just devastating ??? and, no insurance. You can't get insurance on Queen Street West."
looks like quite a few stores won't be coming back. :-(
I'm headed down there in 30 mins. My girl said she could smell smoke in her office down at Spadina & King all day. Sad day.
You can't get insurance? Damn... I remember looking into retail rent in that area 5-6 years ago. 5 G's for a small dive. I can see how some could not afford insurance.
"This is a nightmare," said Paul Mantella, owner of National Sound, as he looked at wreckage of the store he's run for 40 years from across the street. "It's just devastating ??? and, no insurance. You can't get insurance on Queen Street West."
looks like quite a few stores won't be coming back. :-(
walked by this afternoon, damn. queen was blocked so i walked along richmond to watch and the fire was still going on to an extent. i think that the big complex slated to be built on the portland parking lot will definitely attempt to take advantage of this.
with reference to liberty village, just doing some reading on it in the past from what i remember, i understand that people used to live in the studios, i guess like the one on hanna, and there were laws created eventually to disallow that. in other words people were allowed to use office studios for work, but not for living in? i've even see advertisements on poles talking about spaces for sale but clearly disclaiming you can't "live" in the space. i can't speak on the condo development there, but the place has a charm with all the old military barrack things. and i love that chapel building. also i think robocop was shot somewhere there.
That's a crazy pic. Tried to walk down lastnight. Streets were closed. Ate dinner on the other side of Bathurst and walked home depressed. But I read today that Duke's is going to rebuild. I really hope that's true. If Suspect tried to open somehow/somewhere, I'm hoping to donate some DVD's to them. It would be a good thing if a bunch of people did.
Maybe Bassie could inquire. The only person I ever knew with Suspect was Colin. But I'm down 100% for donating if they are thinking about making another go of it.
I spoke to them yesterday and they are gathering their thoughts and trying to come to terms with what this all means. There is a second location and that helps somewhat. Some irreplaceable things are gone.
If Suspect tried to open somehow/somewhere, I'm hoping to donate some DVD's to them. It would be a good thing if a bunch of people did.
If this does happen, please PM me or post info here... I know some people who might be interested.
Maybe Bassie could inquire. The only person I ever knew with Suspect was Colin. But I'm down 100% for donating if they are thinking about making another go of it.
I left a message - it's definitely good for them to know people care, from near and far.
I have quite a few friends just like you, first time homeowners in liberty village. It is considered one of the few safe neighbourhoods 1st time buyers gravitate to for downtown living. Hopefully in time you'll see a good neighbourhood develope, with good markets and affordable restaurants. Unfortunately, Susur, Lee and Thuet do not count.
Not for the meat lover in you but your girl will want to check sushi 930.
I am unaware of said farmers' market, prease hip me to it.
Not fire-related, but the farmer's market is on Sundays, and is pretty good - similar to the North bldg. at St. L, they have some restrictions on who can set up there, so you can get some good stuff. Peaches this summer were excellent.
Fire-related, that was pretty crazy - here's the equipment: 6th Alarm
Comments
I can't agree.
I gotta imagine there are plenty of hardware/paint/etc shops along Queen Street that HD would put out of business.
it has already happened, customers drive out to the one by lakeshore.
I would say relative to what Toronto's needs are and what we do with what we got, we are a mess. The Harbour is a wall of condos and the main body that approves development has almost no reigns on its activities. We are an ugly city hellbent on development imo. It's not so much the rate or what, but where and how that I hate, and that is a planning problem that goes back more than 30 yrs here, not just recently like in other places. Condos and chains going up all the time in cities is not just a Toronto thing, I agree. I guess it is better for areas outside of the city, farmland, etc. if density happens in the inner city as opposed to in the outlying areas (not that that expansion is any slower) - but we are trading older historical buildings for newer cookie cutter ones all the time in the downtown area and destroying communities. It would be too boring to get into it here and wouldn't mean too much to the folks who don't know Toronto, but what has happened in places like Liberty Village (sorry DOR), Abell St., King W around Portland, Queen at Gladstone...there's just no thought put into the neighbourhoods surrounding the development.
Liberty Village is by far the worst example of condo developement. It's sad that area is totally devoid of culture. At least Toronto Life loves it, hehe.
http://www.torontolife.com/features/block-liberty-village/
The Wire hinted at these issues in interesting ways (and maybe Season 5 hits it even more, haven't seen that yet), but if there were a Season 6, misguided development and related corruption issues could've been a very compelling theme for the season.
I don't know where you guys want people to live in the city? For a first time home buyer, it's not that easy to buy a place unless you buy preconstruction. If these building were not going up. How much do you think real estate prices would be downtown? I like how things are going on in there. It truly has a village feel to it. Come thru in the summer...
I remember riding bikes through that area 5 years ago. If you really believe it's not a better place, I'm not sure what your looking for in a city.
I stand by my earlier comment. I'll take a decent building (tho, I would vote against a Home Depot) over that ugly parking lot any day.
Huh? How so? New Farmers Market in the summer. There are plenty of new little food spots.
Just that one building complex is over killings it with a starbucks, liquor store & fitness centre.
Not for the meat lover in you but your girl will want to check sushi 930.
I am unaware of said farmers' market, prease hip me to it.
Fuck! That was a cool little place. I bought something for my wife there last year. This whole thing is terrible. Any word on what started it?
Exactly. There were people already living in all those buildings that they tore down and that they plan to tear down. There should be a balance and there is not. First-time home-buyers' right to affordable housing does not, should not, negate others' right to affordable housing.
Are you joking? I know how much downtown prices are and it's not thanks to condos, big box stores or the hottest new bar, it is because of them. Not everyone wants to live in a box aka a condo and those who have families and need bigger spaces, maybe with a patch of green, they are the ones who cannot afford to live here.
It's been a shit day B****, so I'm in no mood for this shit reasoning. It's great that you rode your bike through that neighbourhood five years ago, but I lived there and still do, please don't tell me how much better you think it is, especially given that the whole area is walled off from the rest of the neighbourhood. I'm glad your enclave is "better" but there is a whole world outside those walls.
Since the meth capital of the U.S. is about 20 minutes from me I'm well aware of the damage those labs can do if they blow up. I can see how that could cause so much destruction, especially once you factor in the age of some of those buildings. Damn.
what's next what's next what's NXET?
Toronto, with it's severe budget constraints and ever-growing property market, has little incentive to stop the rate of growth which provides so much necessary funds to its budget. Combine this with the new provincial intensification targets/standards and you will likely continue seeing urban condo development which is remarkably similar to the urban sprawl which has already ruined so many communities and agricultural areas in Southern Ontario. Generic "lifestyle" oriented developments which promote isolation from the surrounding community, not integration into it.
This whole mess of an issue has a lot to do with the Harris Government, the OMB and the downloading of services to municipalities by the province during the 90's, but that's an even bigger discussion. They f**ked up our province in ways we haven't even figured out 10 years later.
Luckily, we've still got records...
Sadly, yes, yes and not-so-sadly, yes.
The fall-out from all the fuckery of the Harris gov't will be around for a long long time.
In liberty village? As I remember from going though there 5 years ago. It's always been mostly a industrial centre. Very few people actually lived in there. Maybe you mean King West village?
"History and Significance of the Site
In the 1880???s the KLV lands were used as a provincial prison and following this became a
thriving industrial centre, containing the Canadian headquarters of Inglis Manufacturing.
Inglis closed the doors on this location in 1991 and demolished its plant. It should be noted
that parts of this site had been idle for over 50 years, and developed into a brownfield."
Now most of the old industrial building are filled with mostly industry studio's. Some are being turned into lofts.
Rights to affordable housing? That's what these new buildings provide. I looked into buying all over the downtown core for a year. Not to many places in the city were you can have affordable any more.
Let's not forget. These new building provide the city with alot of new desperately needed money.
The new City land transfer tax comes to mind. It's part of the reason the city isn't going bankrupt right now...
I don't know what that has to do with the condo development going on? As far as I know. It's been only east of the Dominion for the new condos & townhomes. The only building I know west of that (The streets your talking about) is the toy factory lofts on Hanna. Which use to be a factory and not residential. All the land right now that any new condos or townhomes that have been built, was not livable space. it was purely industry and the old prison grounds. Speaking of which. The developer's are going to help restore that building and have a park around it (I hope they keep their word on the park).
looks like quite a few stores won't be coming back. :-(
You can't get insurance? Damn... I remember looking into retail rent in that area 5-6 years ago. 5 G's for a small dive. I can see how some could not afford insurance.
It was not even out yet at 3 PM...
The Toronto Star - with video
with reference to liberty village, just doing some reading on it in the past from what i remember, i understand that people used to live in the studios, i guess like the one on hanna, and there were laws created eventually to disallow that. in other words people were allowed to use office studios for work, but not for living in? i've even see advertisements on poles talking about spaces for sale but clearly disclaiming you can't "live" in the space. i can't speak on the condo development there, but the place has a charm with all the old military barrack things. and i love that chapel building. also i think robocop was shot somewhere there.
That's a crazy pic. Tried to walk down lastnight. Streets were closed. Ate dinner on the other side of Bathurst and walked home depressed. But I read today that Duke's is going to rebuild. I really hope that's true. If Suspect tried to open somehow/somewhere, I'm hoping to donate some DVD's to them. It would be a good thing if a bunch of people did.
If this does happen, please PM me or post info here... I know some people who might be interested.
I left a message - it's definitely good for them to know people care, from near and far.
Not fire-related, but the farmer's market is on Sundays, and is pretty good - similar to the North bldg. at St. L, they have some restrictions on who can set up there, so you can get some good stuff. Peaches this summer were excellent.
Fire-related, that was pretty crazy - here's the equipment: 6th Alarm
17 pumpers, 6 aerials, 2 squads, 6 district chiefs, 1 platoon, 1 division commander, 1command vehicle, 2 air supply truck, 1 hazardous materials truck.