dropped bombs on Iraq to distract public from sex scandal? check.
maintained an embargo that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis? check.
dude was a better president than Reagan, Nixon, or either Bush, but that's about it.
still, no dumb wars, money not fucked up.
Im not saying hes abe lincoln, or jesus, but he wasnt a bad pres.
I know I said that I wasn't going to argue, but you should really read this book...
The Immaculate Invasion by Bob Shacochis:
sum it up for me real quick? I hate politics. And books on politics.
Im not pretending to be the most informed though either.
Clinton half-stepped on an "invasion" of Haiti and as a result he basically outed every opposition good guy in Haiti to the ton ton macoutes who were very thankful for knowing who they would be murdering next...which they of course went on to do with US troops standing by watching and doing nothing about it.
For that alone...fuck Bill Clinton forever.
Yeah, that was extremely fucked up. But don't you think your personal connections to Haiti might bias you there?
That's kinda like business as usual for a president.
Talk to some folks with ties to Serbia, Kosovo, Sudan, Rwanda, etc...and watch how that same "bias" pops up again and again when it comes to Bill Clinton.
Clinton was better than most IMHO but I was mad at him when he blew up that aspirin factory in Sudan. Military action in eastern Europe while ignoring genocide in Africa (what's new).
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
didnt start any stupid ass wars? check.
didnt fuck up the money? check.
good president.
dropped bombs on Iraq to distract public from sex scandal? check.
maintained an embargo that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis? check.
dude was a better president than Reagan, Nixon, or either Bush, but that's about it.
still, no dumb wars, money not fucked up.
Im not saying hes abe lincoln, or jesus, but he wasnt a bad pres.
I know I said that I wasn't going to argue, but you should really read this book...
The Immaculate Invasion by Bob Shacochis:
sum it up for me real quick? I hate politics. And books on politics.
Im not pretending to be the most informed though either.
Clinton half-stepped on an "invasion" of Haiti and as a result he basically outed every opposition good guy in Haiti to the ton ton macoutes who were very thankful for knowing who they would be murdering next...which they of course went on to do with US troops standing by watching and doing nothing about it.
For that alone...fuck Bill Clinton forever.
Yeah, that was extremely fucked up. But don't you think your personal connections to Haiti might bias you there?
That's kinda like business as usual for a president.
Talk to some folks with ties to Serbia, Kosovo, Sudan, Rwanda, etc...and watch how that same "bias" pops up again and again when it comes to Bill Clinton.
True, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying theres always gonna be someone pissed on. We're American. Our lifestyles are dependent on pissing on someone, even fellow Americans sometimes. More often than not, its the same people.
Yes, I understand you to be sensitive to such issues...unlike 85% of our American neighbors. So I appreciate your opinions in this area. But my point has been for quite some time now...that if we know said activity to be business as usual, how in the world can we put our stamp of approval on "leaders" practically guaranteed to stay the course?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
It makes us actively complicit...and I just can't get with that.
It makes us actively complicit...and I just can't get with that.
i feel that. but thats why politics is so shitty. par for the course.
Saying, damned if you do...
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Harvey,
can you give us an example of a person you consider to be a good leader?
Toussaint L'ouverture Martin Luther King Malcolm X Che Guevara Jomo Kenyatta Kwame Nkrumah Nelson Mandela Jean-Bertrand Aristide
None were perfect, and some very much less than others, but these are the kind of principled pioneers willing to put their own asses on the line that I can feel good about supporting.
I'm trying to think of someone more modern, but I'm drawing a blank.
Hillary Clinton is the loveliest woman in the world and the tiniest of her farts has the power, the mandate, and the charisma to bring about world peace.
please drop some science on why bill was a bad president.
By now I know better than to argue about someone named Clinton with you, dude. You're loyal and relentless, but that doesn't make you right.
dude was a better president than Reagan, Nixon, or either Bush, but that's about it.
You have a short view of history.
lol... I have a degree in history. But I'm of the opinion that given the way corporate control of public policy has escalated over the last 30 years and the way governments have smoothed that process along, our last string of presidents are among the worst we've ever had.
Really...where did you go to school? I don't mean that as a joke I honestly want to know.
dude was a better president than Reagan, Nixon, or either Bush, but that's about it.
You have a short view of history.
lol... I have a degree in history. But I'm of the opinion that given the way corporate control of public policy has escalated over the last 30 years and the way governments have smoothed that process along, our last string of presidents are among the worst we've ever had.
Really...where did you go to school? I don't mean that as a joke I honestly want to know.
St mary's college of MD (NOT a religious school -- name refers to location)
St Mary's is comparable to UMBC, it's also considered an "honors" campus of the U of MD system but in a rural setting. I didn't particularly like it to be honest but they gave me a good scholarship.
can you give us an example of a person you consider to be a good leader?
Toussaint L'ouverture Martin Luther King Malcolm X Che Guevara Jomo Kenyatta Kwame Nkrumah Nelson Mandela Jean-Bertrand Aristide
None were perfect, and some very much less than others, but these are the kind of principled pioneers willing to put their own asses on the line that I can feel good about supporting.
I'm trying to think of someone more modern, but I'm drawing a blank.
Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were leaders of movements, not countries, which allows them a certain purity in that they don't make decisions about large amounts of people and money.
L'ouverture and Mandela both stand as amazing leaders; the others do not appear to me to be "principled pioneers" in any constructive sense.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Harvey,
can you give us an example of a person you consider to be a good leader?
Toussaint L'ouverture Martin Luther King Malcolm X Che Guevara Jomo Kenyatta Kwame Nkrumah Nelson Mandela Jean-Bertrand Aristide
None were perfect, and some very much less than others, but these are the kind of principled pioneers willing to put their own asses on the line that I can feel good about supporting.
I'm trying to think of someone more modern, but I'm drawing a blank.
Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were leaders of movements, not countries, which allows them a certain purity in that they don't make decisions about large amounts of people and money.
L'ouverture and Mandela both stand as amazing leaders; the others do not appear to me to be "principled pioneers" in any constructive sense.
Now, I'd really like to hear why you wouldn't consider Guevara, Kenyatta, and/or Nkrumah good leaders...
Comments
player-haters?
lol you got me.
Yes, I understand you to be sensitive to such issues...unlike 85% of our American neighbors. So I appreciate your opinions in this area. But my point has been for quite some time now...that if we know said activity to be business as usual, how in the world can we put our stamp of approval on "leaders" practically guaranteed to stay the course?
can you give us an example of a person you consider to be a good leader?
i feel that. but thats why politics is so shitty. par for the course.
Saying, damned if you do...
Toussaint L'ouverture
Martin Luther King
Malcolm X
Che Guevara
Jomo Kenyatta
Kwame Nkrumah
Nelson Mandela
Jean-Bertrand Aristide
None were perfect, and some very much less than others, but these are the kind of principled pioneers willing to put their own asses on the line that I can feel good about supporting.
I'm trying to think of someone more modern, but I'm drawing a blank.
By now I know better than to argue about someone named Clinton with you, dude. You're loyal and relentless, but that doesn't make you right.
the happy warrior.
the greatest governor of the greatest state of the greatest nation in the world,
Alfred Emanuel Smith.
dope-e for vice
Egypt E
that's for the public to decide come election time!
...ohhh and c-note for treasurer
Really...where did you go to school? I don't mean that as a joke I honestly want to know.
St mary's college of MD (NOT a religious school -- name refers to location)
i keed, i keed...
isn't Mary washington also in md? color me
St Mary's is comparable to UMBC, it's also considered an "honors" campus of the U of MD system but in a rural setting. I didn't particularly like it to be honest but they gave me a good scholarship.
and the unemployment was at 1%
Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were leaders of movements, not countries, which allows them a certain purity in that they don't make decisions about large amounts of people and money.
L'ouverture and Mandela both stand as amazing leaders; the others do not appear to me to be "principled pioneers" in any constructive sense.
nope. frednecksburg, va
free mandela!
Now, I'd really like to hear why you wouldn't consider Guevara, Kenyatta, and/or Nkrumah good leaders...
wait, what?