HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Nah, you don't get off that easy. You have no respect for drum-n-bass...but then you facetiously or otherwise admit to liking the candiest of ass drum-n-bass music anywhere.
Kinda like how you act like an r-n-b purist but then follow it up by defending Justin Timberlake.
So yeah, maybe your contrary act is indeed entertaining. But it isn't anything remotely resembling a sensible order of taste. You're all over the place...just like anyone else.
Point being, I appreciate your honesty much more than your tomfoolery.
Nah, you don't get off that easy. You have no respect for drum-n-bass...but then you facetiously or otherwise admit to liking the candiest of ass drum-n-bass music anywhere.
Kinda like how you act like an r-n-b purist but then follow it up by defending Justin Timberlake.
So yeah, maybe your contrary act is indeed entertaining. But it isn't anything remotely resembling a sensible order of taste. You're all over the place...just like anyone else.
Point being, I appreciate your honesty much more than your tomfoolery.
Ah, yes: imposing a sensible order of taste on the internets since 1995.
Nah, you don't get off that easy. You have no respect for drum-n-bass...but then you facetiously or otherwise admit to liking the candiest of ass drum-n-bass music anywhere.
Kinda like how you act like an r-n-b purist but then follow it up by defending Justin Timberlake.
So yeah, maybe your contrary act is indeed entertaining. But it isn't anything remotely resembling a sensible order of taste. You're all over the place...just like anyone else.
Point being, I appreciate your honesty much more than your tomfoolery.
Did anyone ever cop that "Crazy Wisdom Masters" 10" EP that surfaced in the late 90's? I think it had four or five songs from the sessions they did with Bill Laswell. As far as I recall, these sessions were supposed to be for the third album, but were never officially released. I always got the impression that "J Beez Wit The Remedy" was an attempt to find a halfway point between the Laswell-produced experimentation and the more familiar JBs sound.
yeah, those were the outtakes i was referring to. my understanding is that the Crazy Wisdom Masters sessions were part of the version of the album they originally submitted to their label, which was rejected. I haven't gone back to CWM in a long time, but remember them being an interesting mess.
I seem to recall the final version of the album being referred to as the worst-selling major-label hip-hop record ever -- up until that point in time, that is. Any truth to that? In any case, it sold poorly enough that from a financial perspective the label might as well have released the OG version.
Great record, made better by that 10-inch with the outtakes. The noz review linked to earlier is really on-point.
Of all the Native Tongue crews, the Jungle Brothers were the only ones that I ever believed were really looking for something, and it's telling that, as sonically bugged as some of the shit on Remedy is, you can't really say that any of it sounds out of character. All that "Boy, what type of shit you on?!" and confused chatter about, like, "these, these things...these man-made things!..." is pretty much just an extension of the earnest bewilderment and the resultant search that they'd been representing from the beginning, when they were running around unkempt playlots with boonie hats and binoculars, through their second-record lamenting that "they don't use lemons to make lemonade." And all Remedy's Stooges samples and 70s-funk-player cameos and subway bells and backgorund noise and everything else never sounds to me like calculated mind-blowing or experimental flossing--it just sounds like they're honestly trying to get to someplace different, both within and without. Its kind of adventurousness was rare at the time, and is still rarer than it oughta be. To say that the comparatively mute and dilute follow-up of Raw Deluxe broke my heart might be overstating, but not by much.
Here is JBeez Wit The Remedy in microcosm: It samples the part of "Big Beat" without the drums.
To say that the comparatively mute and dilute follow-up of Raw Deluxe broke my heart might be overstating, but not by much.
I recall feeling slightly betrayed by an interview I read at the time of Raw Deluxe's releases, where they essentially disowned Remedy--not because of the label's meddling but because "We went too far".
To say that the comparatively mute and dilute follow-up of Raw Deluxe broke my heart might be overstating, but not by much.
I recall feeling slightly betrayed by an interview I read at the time of Raw Deluxe's releases, where they essentially disowned Remedy--not because of the label's meddling but because "We went too far".
They seemed like broken men.
Yeah, I remember reading something similar around the same time. I was roundly underwhelmed by Raw Deluxe, but was actually willing to give them a pass, chalking the blandness up to the natural transition of young lives of experimentation into older lives of working straight jobs 'cause your third album bricked. Had they just come out on some "Hey, this is just where our lives are at right now, you know?" I wouldn't have knocked them in the slightest. The fact , though, that they, like you said, essentially disowned Remedy kinda stung at the time. I largely quit checking for them after that.
Oh shit, I forgot that was on there. I drove forty-five minutes to Greenville, SC (what's up, H**th) pretty much just to buy that twelve-inch, and was disappointed to see that it didn't have the acapella on there, and consequently was unduly thrilled to get it home and find out that the acapella was on there, it just wasn't listed.
For reasons which escape me now, this all seemed very important at the time.
I'm In Love With Indica and Book Of Rhyme Pages were probably my favourite cuts on the LP, I liked most of the vocal tracks but never could get with 40 Below Trooper. The instrumental tracks didn???t do anything for me but I don't listen to instrumental hip hop anyway. A friend recently described the sound as being on the same vibe some as some def jux/anticon releases, which whilst I guess was a throwaway comment does hold some weight.
Raw Deluxe had some joints on it but it felt a bit too watered down but the posse track and brain were both worthwhile (cant remember any of the other tracks time to dig it out then).
Had you but known the boy Terry_Clubbup in the late nineties, you might have been invited over to the Clubbup manse for some Hawaiian beshirted big beat lifestyle experimentation.
Had you but known the boy Terry_Clubbup in the late nineties, you might have been invited over to the Clubbup manse for some Hawaiian besho[/b]rted big beat lifestyle experimentation.
Although I did also like the first single off of Raw Deluxe--which had the full Native Tongues crew on it.
I hated that track at first, but eventually heard it on so many mix-tapes that it grew on me.
yall are talking about "How You Want It I Got It"?
the one where the beat goes: 'da duuuuune dune, da duune dune' x infinity
"How You Want It" is the joint. I would go so far to say that it's a bona fide real schitt classic. Everything else I heard off Raw Deluxe was disappointing. Cool as far as hip-hop went, but subpar for the JB's. This is, I should say, not having heard anything off Remedy. All this talk has me thinking I need to check that one.
To say that the comparatively mute and dilute follow-up of Raw Deluxe broke my heart might be overstating, but not by much.
I recall feeling slightly betrayed by an interview I read at the time of Raw Deluxe's releases, where they essentially disowned Remedy--not because of the label's meddling but because "We went too far".
They seemed like broken men.
I remember when Raw Deluxe came out it seemed like around the same time as Stakes is High and The Love Movement. It seemed like all of those ex-Native Tonguers were getting more conservative in their sound. Maybe it was just them getting older, or maybe I just wasn't aging with them the same way. All of those albums sound better to me now then they did when they came out, but then again so does Remedy.
To say that the comparatively mute and dilute follow-up of Raw Deluxe broke my heart might be overstating, but not by much.
I recall feeling slightly betrayed by an interview I read at the time of Raw Deluxe's releases, where they essentially disowned Remedy--not because of the label's meddling but because "We went too far".
They seemed like broken men.
I remember when Raw Deluxe came out it seemed like around the same time as Stakes is High and The Love Movement. It seemed like all of those ex-Native Tonguers were getting more conservative in their sound. Maybe it was just them getting older, or maybe I just wasn't aging with them the same way. All of those albums sound better to me now then they did when they came out, but then again so does Remedy.
Well, I definitely agree as to Tribe--that was the summer that BR&L was released, which I found to be painfully boring... although it really only hinted at the levels of boringness to be reached on The Love Movement. [color:white]BRING IT YOU DILLA STANS[/b][/color] Stakes is High (also released that summer) was very conservative in outlook--it's one of the founding documents of ass-hurt rap--but was much more musically interesting than either the JBeez' or Tribe's offerings.
I dont own this album and remember not being able to find it when it dropped herr in NYC.
A couple of songs from that album is on a JB comp i have.
Ive never sat down w/ the LP. Ive never seen it on wax- if there even was wax.
I ride for Raw Deluxe.
As a fan, i do feel this is big hole in my JB collectron. But due to its weird status(especially cats tryin to rep it to prove they hear somethin' that errybody doesnt) I havent tried to chase it down.
I dont own this album and remember not being able to find it when it dropped herr in NYC.
A couple of songs from that album is on a JB comp i have.
Ive never sat down w/ the LP. Ive never seen it on wax- if there even was wax.
I ride for Raw Deluxe.
As a fan, i do feel this is big hole in my JB collectron. But due to its weird status(especially cats tryin to rep it to prove they hear somethin' that errybody doesnt) I havent tried to chase it down.
Yeah, it's garbage, your hole is an illusion.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,916 Posts
To say that the comparatively mute and dilute follow-up of Raw Deluxe broke my heart might be overstating, but not by much.
I recall feeling slightly betrayed by an interview I read at the time of Raw Deluxe's releases, where they essentially disowned Remedy--not because of the label's meddling but because "We went too far".
They seemed like broken men.
I remember when Raw Deluxe came out it seemed like around the same time as Stakes is High and The Love Movement. It seemed like all of those ex-Native Tonguers were getting more conservative in their sound. Maybe it was just them getting older, or maybe I just wasn't aging with them the same way. All of those albums sound better to me now then they did when they came out, but then again so does Remedy.
Well, I definitely agree as to Tribe--that was the summer that BR&L was released, which I found to be painfully boring... although it really only hinted at the levels of boringness to be reached on The Love Movement. [color:white]BRING IT YOU DILLA STANS[/b][/color] Stakes is High (also released that summer) was very conservative in outlook--it's one of the founding documents of ass-hurt rap--but was much more musically interesting than either the JBeez' or Tribe's offerings.
Heh.
I'm no Dilla Stan, but I still stand by my original belief that The Love Movement would prove to be an influential record, if not a great Tribe record. I think the former point has definitely been borne out.
I reckon that "Stakes Is High" is arguably De La's best album, not because its alleged asshurtedness necessarily echoed my own feelings about hip-hop at the time (although I did think they had a point), but because each of their albums up to and including this one showed real artistic growth and development. On "Stakes", they were older and had families, and were obviously wondering if there was still a place for them in hip-hop anymore, and the album reflected that. It may have sounded like the work of grumpy old men bellyaching about the young'uns on one level but, love it or loathe it, at least it was an honest picture of where they were at.
I reckon that "Stakes Is High" is arguably De La's best album
I must respectfully disagree.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,916 Posts
I reckon that "Stakes Is High" is arguably De La's best album
I must respectfully disagree.
Hence the qualifier "arguably". I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think they got better with each of those first four albums. They didn't repeat themselves either.
I reckon that "Stakes Is High" is arguably De La's best album
I must respectfully disagree.
Hence the qualifier "arguably". I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think they got better with each of those first four albums. They didn't repeat themselves either.
I reckon that "Stakes Is High" is arguably De La's best album
I must respectfully disagree.
Hence the qualifier "arguably". I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think they got better with each of those first four albums. They didn't repeat themselves either.
I reckon that "Stakes Is High" is arguably De La's best album
I must respectfully disagree.
Hence the qualifier "arguably". I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think they got better with each of those first four albums. They didn't repeat themselves either.
I think the production on "Stakes Is High" just wasn't up to the standards of the previous three. The rapping was definitely still on point, even if they were lyrical grumpy old men sometimes.
Comments
Kinda like how you act like an r-n-b purist but then follow it up by defending Justin Timberlake.
So yeah, maybe your contrary act is indeed entertaining. But it isn't anything remotely resembling a sensible order of taste. You're all over the place...just like anyone else.
Point being, I appreciate your honesty much more than your tomfoolery.
Ah, yes: imposing a sensible order of taste on the internets since 1995.
Acid.
Laswell.
German Industrial Coil.
Wayans Brothers soundtracks.
Tomfoolery.
Please continue.
yeah, those were the outtakes i was referring to. my understanding is that the Crazy Wisdom Masters sessions were part of the version of the album they originally submitted to their label, which was rejected. I haven't gone back to CWM in a long time, but remember them being an interesting mess.
I seem to recall the final version of the album being referred to as the worst-selling major-label hip-hop record ever -- up until that point in time, that is. Any truth to that? In any case, it sold poorly enough that from a financial perspective the label might as well have released the OG version.
i ride for both these records!
Of all the Native Tongue crews, the Jungle Brothers were the only ones that I ever believed were really looking for something, and it's telling that, as sonically bugged as some of the shit on Remedy is, you can't really say that any of it sounds out of character. All that "Boy, what type of shit you on?!" and confused chatter about, like, "these, these things...these man-made things!..." is pretty much just an extension of the earnest bewilderment and the resultant search that they'd been representing from the beginning, when they were running around unkempt playlots with boonie hats and binoculars, through their second-record lamenting that "they don't use lemons to make lemonade." And all Remedy's Stooges samples and 70s-funk-player cameos and subway bells and backgorund noise and everything else never sounds to me like calculated mind-blowing or experimental flossing--it just sounds like they're honestly trying to get to someplace different, both within and without. Its kind of adventurousness was rare at the time, and is still rarer than it oughta be. To say that the comparatively mute and dilute follow-up of Raw Deluxe broke my heart might be overstating, but not by much.
Here is JBeez Wit The Remedy in microcosm: It samples the part of "Big Beat" without the drums.
I recall feeling slightly betrayed by an interview I read at the time of Raw Deluxe's releases, where they essentially disowned Remedy--not because of the label's meddling but because "We went too far".
They seemed like broken men.
I hated that track at first, but eventually heard it on so many mix-tapes that it grew on me. And "Brain" is my joint (bring it D*ni*l)
Yeah, I remember reading something similar around the same time. I was roundly underwhelmed by Raw Deluxe, but was actually willing to give them a pass, chalking the blandness up to the natural transition of young lives of experimentation into older lives of working straight jobs 'cause your third album bricked. Had they just come out on some "Hey, this is just where our lives are at right now, you know?" I wouldn't have knocked them in the slightest. The fact , though, that they, like you said, essentially disowned Remedy kinda stung at the time. I largely quit checking for them after that.
Oh shit, I forgot that was on there. I drove forty-five minutes to Greenville, SC (what's up, H**th) pretty much just to buy that twelve-inch, and was disappointed to see that it didn't have the acapella on there, and consequently was unduly thrilled to get it home and find out that the acapella was on there, it just wasn't listed.
For reasons which escape me now, this all seemed very important at the time.
The instrumental tracks didn???t do anything for me but I don't listen to instrumental hip hop anyway.
A friend recently described the sound as being on the same vibe some as some def jux/anticon releases, which whilst I guess was a throwaway comment does hold some weight.
Raw Deluxe had some joints on it but it felt a bit too watered down but the posse track and brain were both worthwhile (cant remember any of the other tracks time to dig it out then).
Had you but known the boy Terry_Clubbup in the late nineties, you might have been invited over to the Clubbup manse for some Hawaiian beshirted big beat lifestyle experimentation.
yall are talking about "How You Want It I Got It"?
the one where the beat goes: 'da duuuuune dune, da duune dune' x infinity
HOW YA WANT IT WE GOT IT
"How You Want It" is the joint. I would go so far to say that it's a bona fide real schitt classic. Everything else I heard off Raw Deluxe was disappointing. Cool as far as hip-hop went, but subpar for the JB's. This is, I should say, not having heard anything off Remedy. All this talk has me thinking I need to check that one.
I remember when Raw Deluxe came out it seemed like around the same time as Stakes is High and The Love Movement. It seemed like all of those ex-Native Tonguers were getting more conservative in their sound. Maybe it was just them getting older, or maybe I just wasn't aging with them the same way. All of those albums sound better to me now then they did when they came out, but then again so does Remedy.
Well, I definitely agree as to Tribe--that was the summer that BR&L was released, which I found to be painfully boring... although it really only hinted at the levels of boringness to be reached on The Love Movement.
[color:white]BRING IT YOU DILLA STANS[/b][/color]
Stakes is High (also released that summer) was very conservative in outlook--it's one of the founding documents of ass-hurt rap--but was much more musically interesting than either the JBeez' or Tribe's offerings.
A great record that has aged remarkably well.
A couple of songs from that album is on a JB comp i have.
Ive never sat down w/ the LP. Ive never seen it on wax- if there even was wax.
I ride for Raw Deluxe.
As a fan, i do feel this is big hole in my JB collectron. But due to its weird status(especially cats tryin to rep it to prove they hear somethin' that errybody doesnt) I havent tried to chase it down.
Yeah, it's garbage, your hole is an illusion.
Heh.
I'm no Dilla Stan, but I still stand by my original belief that The Love Movement would prove to be an influential record, if not a great Tribe record. I think the former point has definitely been borne out.
I reckon that "Stakes Is High" is arguably De La's best album, not because its alleged asshurtedness necessarily echoed my own feelings about hip-hop at the time (although I did think they had a point), but because each of their albums up to and including this one showed real artistic growth and development. On "Stakes", they were older and had families, and were obviously wondering if there was still a place for them in hip-hop anymore, and the album reflected that. It may have sounded like the work of grumpy old men bellyaching about the young'uns on one level but, love it or loathe it, at least it was an honest picture of where they were at.
I must respectfully disagree.
Hence the qualifier "arguably". I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think they got better with each of those first four albums. They didn't repeat themselves either.
how old were u when 3ft High came out?
I really don't think this album holds up.
Important/groundbreaking? Yes.
Listenable in 2008? Not so much.
I think the production on "Stakes Is High" just wasn't up to the standards of the previous three. The rapping was definitely still on point, even if they were lyrical grumpy old men sometimes.