Would you support making tobacco and alcohol illegal???
Not in any real world way. I don't think it's a bad idea as far as health policy but I don't see it as realistically enforceable and at the end of the day, there are bigger issues in society I'd want to see addressed. My point though was that if you're going to keep those legal, it's hard to argue why other drugs, especially marijuana, are not. That's what I mean by being consistent.
Would you support making tobacco and alcohol illegal???
Not in any real world way. I don't think it's a bad idea as far as health policy but I don't see it as realistically enforceable and at the end of the day, there are bigger issues in society I'd want to see addressed. My point though was that if you're going to keep those legal, it's hard to argue why other drugs, especially marijuana, are not. That's what I mean by being consistent.
Alcohol is a serious drug, and just because it is legal, it gets a pass.
This is very important to note.
I'm a youth worker and I had a very interesting dicussion about this issue with a coworker of mine who is a social planner. We were talking about it in relation to the recent anti-smoking advertising campaign in Australia and how smoking is made out to be the worst possible thing you can do to your body.
Her point was that while smoking does indeed contribute to a lot of illnesses, alcohol has far more negative social impact than tobacco ever could. Domestic violence, alcohol-infused street fights and pub brawls, liver damage, alvohol-related driving fatalities (the stats so around half of all driver fatalities are alcohool related), and the list goes on. Even in the last few months, there have been a number of cases of people being killed by mobs of alcohol-induced individuals in the area we work in. A guy who came outside at 2am to ask some drunk guys to quiet down was stabbed in the head with a screw driver and left for dead (Oct this year).
My point in relation to all this is that this is all true, but there's still nothing wrong with someone enjoying a drink from time to time, if they do it responsibly. Still, I had to concede that the social impact of alcohol is quite serious.
EDIT: I might add to all this that last night at about midnight, my wife gets a call from her daughter who is staying with her father's family. Basically, dad is drunk and going awol. WE jumpewd in the car and had to pick her up because she was scared as hell. It was a very hairy situation. Seems kinda relavant as it relates directly to the social impact of alcohol min a very real way!
Yeah... but that's kind of a moot point. I mean you could say nicotene doesn't kill people, smoking kills people too.
I mean, you could make the same point about drink driving Johnny, but the reality is that with the proportion of accidents that involve alcohol, there's obviously a connection. People are just mor elikely to do really stupid shit while they are drunk. Sometimes that stupid shit is harmless, and sometimes it's not. Also, some individuals seem to be able to get drunk and have fun and not hurt anyone, and others (ie my girl's ex) seem not to be able to manage that.
Well I was kind of joking but look - I'm no saint, I've certainly gotten behind the wheel after getting a bit tanked (friends will mutter, "a bit?") and actually fancy myself a pretty good driver in those situations (riiiight, we all do). I make long drives for records and will often have something to smoke along the way. I'm just being honest.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
Well I was kind of joking but look - I'm no saint, I've certainly gotten behind the wheel after getting a bit tanked (friends will mutter, "a bit?") and actually fancy myself a pretty good driver in those situations (riiiight, we all do). I make long drives for records and will often have something to smoke along the way. I'm just being honest.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
So dude, you have no problem getting on the road stoned or drunk, subjecting all of the innocent drivers around you.
But god forbid someone smokes in a club or show that YOUR at.
Well I was kind of joking but look - I'm no saint, I've certainly gotten behind the wheel after getting a bit tanked (friends will mutter, "a bit?") and actually fancy myself a pretty good driver in those situations (riiiight, we all do). I make long drives for records and will often have something to smoke along the way. I'm just being honest.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
I understand where you're coming from Johnny, I really do. And before I say this, I'm not a fan of the idea of prohibition: but if we're all honest and we add it all up, alcohol has a significantly negative impact on society as a whole. Now like you, I enjoy a few drinks every now and then - I'm really not what anyone would call much of a drinker - but I enjoy what I drink. But if we were talking about something else, I'd guess that a lot more people would be making the argument that the benefit outweighs the negative effect of alcohol.
AS an aside, I know a few people that are "daily" marijuana smokers. None of them seem to have any problem driving, so in my experience, that's not that big a deal Johnny. I'd guess that the reason for this is that unlike marijuana, people tend to get that inflated sense of self/ability with alcohol that i don't think is quite as prevelent with weed, and form that, are more likely to take risks that their unaffected brain might otherwise warn them against.
Well I was kind of joking but look - I'm no saint, I've certainly gotten behind the wheel after getting a bit tanked (friends will mutter, "a bit?") and actually fancy myself a pretty good driver in those situations (riiiight, we all do). I make long drives for records and will often have something to smoke along the way. I'm just being honest.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
So dude, you have no problem getting on the road stoned or drunk, subjecting all of the innocent drivers around you.
But god forbid someone smokes in a club or show that YOUR at.
Well I was kind of joking but look - I'm no saint, I've certainly gotten behind the wheel after getting a bit tanked (friends will mutter, "a bit?") and actually fancy myself a pretty good driver in those situations (riiiight, we all do). I make long drives for records and will often have something to smoke along the way. I'm just being honest.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
So dude, you have no problem getting on the road stoned or drunk, subjecting all of the innocent drivers around you.
But god forbid someone smokes in a club or show that YOUR at.
Well I was kind of joking but look - I'm no saint, I've certainly gotten behind the wheel after getting a bit tanked (friends will mutter, "a bit?") and actually fancy myself a pretty good driver in those situations (riiiight, we all do). I make long drives for records and will often have something to smoke along the way. I'm just being honest.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
So dude, you have no problem getting on the road stoned or drunk, subjecting all of the innocent drivers around you.
But god forbid someone smokes in a club or show that YOUR at.
I'm just being honest.
Jesus Christ.
He didn't say ANY of these things.
Thank you! I never ONCE said that I had anything against smokers in a venue I might be attending. Merely that I supported the ban.
Can we say "lacking in intellectual nuance"?
I don't give a fuuuck if someone lights up next to me. I might light up too. You have me confused with some vigilant dude who gets in people's faces over shit like that... that's not me man. I quit smoking cigarettes but I still smoke cigars, and occasionally will enjoy a square as well. I'm glad though that it doesn't happen indoors as much... I think we're all better for it. We'd also be better for it if I didn't get behind the wheel after several drinks, since you want to put my habits up for discussion in place of a state law.
I do enjoy the ban as it is being currently implemented in NYC, which IMO is spotty. I would like to see some sort of application process or zoning that would allow some venues to allow legal smoking; that's my opinion as a business owner too. As a patron, I fully support and utilize bars' smoking patios and outdoor areas. If bars or patrons want to take it into their own hands and allow smoking indoors, that's just not my business. If it's too much for me I generally will leave. I allow people to smoke in my shop from time to time and if I get written up for it well, I guess that's my problem as well.
And Kinetic, I don't at all disagree that alcohol is destructive. I was just saying that stabbing someone in the head is a poor example of its effects.
I'm not proud of my indiscretions. Like I said, I'm just being honest. I at one point had a real problem, and I'm trying to get better with it. I learn, time and again, that real honesty on this site can get twitted up and used against you, which is a real shame.
Well I was kind of joking but look - I'm no saint, I've certainly gotten behind the wheel after getting a bit tanked (friends will mutter, "a bit?") and actually fancy myself a pretty good driver in those situations (riiiight, we all do). I make long drives for records and will often have something to smoke along the way. I'm just being honest.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
So dude, you have no problem getting on the road stoned or drunk, subjecting all of the innocent drivers around you.
But god forbid someone smokes in a club or show that YOUR at.
I'm just being honest.
Jesus Christ.
He didn't say ANY of these things.
Thank you! I never ONCE said that I had anything against smokers in a venue I might be attending. Merely that I supported the ban.
I must be lacking in comprehending the english language too..
You have nothing against smokers in a venue, You just support banning them from doing such.
Sorry if I irked some of you in my initial post. I just meant it as a warning to those that must drive out of necessity, to be safe on the road. It was a reality check for me. That is all.
But for the record, I'm extremely cautious when I'm driving with or without alcohol in my system. I know my limits, and I'm the first and last to dilute my system with excessive amounts of water if I feel it's necessary. I'm sure most of us practice good judgement in that respect.
And Kinetic, I don't at all disagree that alcohol is destructive. I was just saying that stabbing someone in the head is a poor example of its effects.
I'm not proud of my indiscretions. Like I said, I'm just being honest. I at one point had a real problem, and I'm trying to get better with it. I learn, time and again, that real honesty on this site can get twitted up and used against you, which is a real shame.
Never that son. I respect your honesty on the issue Johnny. I have personally never driven while under the influence, and I've made my opinion about people that do known. Moreover, it's about a person's complete lack of consideration of the risk they pose to others that gets me. But on the other hand when a person says, I've messed up but I'm working on it, that's a long, long way from "if you're drink driving this holiday season, try to avoid the police."
Now let's all get drunk in the comfort of our own homes!!!!!
I must be lacking in comprehending the english language too..
You have nothing against smokers in a venue, You just support banning them from doing such.
Huh??
You really don't understand what I am saying?
There is no army of smokers banging down the door that I am stopping. In total, people are merely allowed to smoke less. How is this a bad thing? If more bartenders denied drinks after people became wasted, it would also not be a bad thing. I say that as a man who will pound whiskey with you any day of the goddamn week!
There are lots of bars and clubs that are, I believe, better for the ban - that's as a patron. As a citizen. And as a sometime-smoker, I have no problem with taking it outside. I don't know what battle you're fighting - if we legalized weed, which I advocate, I still wouldn't think it was OK to have a club reeking of pot.
Surely this kind of duality is why I could never be a politician, and why when you question me like I'm supposed to be one, it just looks ridiculous. If you don't know anyone who doesn't mind someone lighting up something next to them no matter how illegal it may be then you have clearly been out the game too long!
The driving while impaired statutes include all impairing substances, not excluding over-the-counter medications, paint thinner, or whatever...I wonder how many of the people preaching "Don't EVER drive after drinking" have received a ticket for speeding while unimpaired? That kills people, too. If the law didn't recognize that people can drink moderately and still operate a vehicle, then the legal limit would be 0.00, not 0.08 as it is most states.
The driving while impaired statutes include all impairing substances, including over-the-counter medications, paint thinner, or whatever...I wonder how many of people preaching "Don't EVER drink while driving" have ever received a ticket for speeding while unimpaired? That kills people, too. If the law didn't recognize that people can drink moderately and still operate a vehicle, then the legal limit would be 0.00, not 0.08 as it is most states.
And Kinetic, I don't at all disagree that alcohol is destructive. I was just saying that stabbing someone in the head is a poor example of its effects.
I'm not proud of my indiscretions. Like I said, I'm just being honest. I at one point had a real problem, and I'm trying to get better with it. I learn, time and again, that real honesty on this site can get twitted up and used against you, which is a real shame.
Never that son. I respect your honesty on the issue Johnny. I have personally never driven while under the influence, and I've made my opinion about people that do known. Moreover, it's about a person's complete lack of consideration of the risk they pose to others that gets me. But on the other hand when a person says, I've messed up but I'm working on it, that's a long, long way from "if you're drink driving this holiday season, try to avoid the police."
Now let's all get drunk in the comfort of our own homes!!!!!
Peace K.
way to suck a dick. and way to pat yourself on the back.
I must be lacking in comprehending the english language too..
You have nothing against smokers in a venue, You just support banning them from doing such.
Huh??
You really don't understand what I am saying?
There is no army of smokers banging down the door that I am stopping. In total, people are merely allowed to smoke less. How is this a bad thing? If more bartenders denied drinks after people became wasted, it would also not be a bad thing. I say that as a man who will pound whiskey with you any day of the goddamn week!
There are lots of bars and clubs that are, I believe, better for the ban - that's as a patron. As a citizen. And as a sometime-smoker, I have no problem with taking it outside. I don't know what battle you're fighting - if we legalized weed, which I advocate, I still wouldn't think it was OK to have a club reeking of pot.
Surely this kind of duality is why I could never be a politician, and why when you question me like I'm supposed to be one, it just looks ridiculous. If you don't know anyone who doesn't mind someone lighting up something next to them no matter how illegal it may be then you have clearly been out the game too long!
I understand what you're saying and I think it's hypocritical.....you don't.
I think supporting a smoking ban and then breaking said ban by allowing folks to smoke in your store when you want is hypocritical.....you don't.
I think supporting a law that bans smoking, supposedly for the safety of innocent victims, and then driving stoned or drunk is hypocritical.....you don't.
That shit isn't hypocritical Rich that is life. You are telling me you've never got behind the wheel high, or drunk? You've never lit up a joint in an inappropriate (fuck illegal) venue?
Are you calling me a hypocrite because I support a ban that is lackadaisically enforced in my city, a ban that I flout yet appreciate for the portion of good it does? Should I remind you that my shop is (cigarette) smoke-free the vast majority of the time?
I don't get your crusade against "hypocrisy" Rich. I don't think my ideas are radical. The reason this ban works in my city is because most people feel like me.
Comments
IMG src=http://www.salesandmarketing.com/managesmarter/photos/2006/12/smm_20061201_office_angela.jpg>
for some reason
p.s. DRINKING in general is Frickin' stupid.
this thread gets better and beter...
Not in any real world way. I don't think it's a bad idea as far as health policy but I don't see it as realistically enforceable and at the end of the day, there are bigger issues in society I'd want to see addressed. My point though was that if you're going to keep those legal, it's hard to argue why other drugs, especially marijuana, are not. That's what I mean by being consistent.
agreed
Dude, are you even of legal age to drink?
haha, i wasnt totally serious.
i will be 21 in march, but i live in a college town.
Like most things, though, it comes with drawbacks...
This is very important to note.
I'm a youth worker and I had a very interesting dicussion about this issue with a coworker of mine who is a social planner. We were talking about it in relation to the recent anti-smoking advertising campaign in Australia and how smoking is made out to be the worst possible thing you can do to your body.
Her point was that while smoking does indeed contribute to a lot of illnesses, alcohol has far more negative social impact than tobacco ever could. Domestic violence, alcohol-infused street fights and pub brawls, liver damage, alvohol-related driving fatalities (the stats so around half of all driver fatalities are alcohool related), and the list goes on. Even in the last few months, there have been a number of cases of people being killed by mobs of alcohol-induced individuals in the area we work in. A guy who came outside at 2am to ask some drunk guys to quiet down was stabbed in the head with a screw driver and left for dead (Oct this year).
My point in relation to all this is that this is all true, but there's still nothing wrong with someone enjoying a drink from time to time, if they do it responsibly. Still, I had to concede that the social impact of alcohol is quite serious.
EDIT: I might add to all this that last night at about midnight, my wife gets a call from her daughter who is staying with her father's family. Basically, dad is drunk and going awol. WE jumpewd in the car and had to pick her up because she was scared as hell. It was a very hairy situation. Seems kinda relavant as it relates directly to the social impact of alcohol min a very real way!
Alcohol don't stab people in the head with a screwdriver... people stab people in the head with a screwdriver.
I mean, you could make the same point about drink driving Johnny, but the reality is that with the proportion of accidents that involve alcohol, there's obviously a connection. People are just mor elikely to do really stupid shit while they are drunk. Sometimes that stupid shit is harmless, and sometimes it's not. Also, some individuals seem to be able to get drunk and have fun and not hurt anyone, and others (ie my girl's ex) seem not to be able to manage that.
There is a huge, HUGE difference between having a few drinks and doing something mundane, like driving home, and having a few drinks and doing something like STABBING A MAN IN THE HEAD WITH A F*CKING SCREWDRIVER.
exits thread
So dude, you have no problem getting on the road stoned or drunk, subjecting all of the innocent drivers around you.
But god forbid someone smokes in a club or show that YOUR at.
I'm just being honest.
I understand where you're coming from Johnny, I really do. And before I say this, I'm not a fan of the idea of prohibition: but if we're all honest and we add it all up, alcohol has a significantly negative impact on society as a whole. Now like you, I enjoy a few drinks every now and then - I'm really not what anyone would call much of a drinker - but I enjoy what I drink. But if we were talking about something else, I'd guess that a lot more people would be making the argument that the benefit outweighs the negative effect of alcohol.
AS an aside, I know a few people that are "daily" marijuana smokers. None of them seem to have any problem driving, so in my experience, that's not that big a deal Johnny. I'd guess that the reason for this is that unlike marijuana, people tend to get that inflated sense of self/ability with alcohol that i don't think is quite as prevelent with weed, and form that, are more likely to take risks that their unaffected brain might otherwise warn them against.
Jesus Christ.
He didn't say ANY of these things.
Then why don't you translate.
And make sure you know what coast you're on!!
Thank you! I never ONCE said that I had anything against smokers in a venue I might be attending. Merely that I supported the ban.
Can we say "lacking in intellectual nuance"?
I don't give a fuuuck if someone lights up next to me. I might light up too. You have me confused with some vigilant dude who gets in people's faces over shit like that... that's not me man. I quit smoking cigarettes but I still smoke cigars, and occasionally will enjoy a square as well. I'm glad though that it doesn't happen indoors as much... I think we're all better for it. We'd also be better for it if I didn't get behind the wheel after several drinks, since you want to put my habits up for discussion in place of a state law.
I do enjoy the ban as it is being currently implemented in NYC, which IMO is spotty. I would like to see some sort of application process or zoning that would allow some venues to allow legal smoking; that's my opinion as a business owner too. As a patron, I fully support and utilize bars' smoking patios and outdoor areas. If bars or patrons want to take it into their own hands and allow smoking indoors, that's just not my business. If it's too much for me I generally will leave. I allow people to smoke in my shop from time to time and if I get written up for it well, I guess that's my problem as well.
And Kinetic, I don't at all disagree that alcohol is destructive. I was just saying that stabbing someone in the head is a poor example of its effects.
I'm not proud of my indiscretions. Like I said, I'm just being honest. I at one point had a real problem, and I'm trying to get better with it. I learn, time and again, that real honesty on this site can get twitted up and used against you, which is a real shame.
I must be lacking in comprehending the english language too..
You have nothing against smokers in a venue, You just support banning them from doing such.
Huh??
Sorry if I irked some of you in my initial post. I just meant it as a warning to those that must drive out of necessity, to be safe on the road. It was a reality check for me. That is all.
But for the record, I'm extremely cautious when I'm driving with or without alcohol in my system. I know my limits, and I'm the first and last to dilute my system with excessive amounts of water if I feel it's necessary. I'm sure most of us practice good judgement in that respect.
Never that son. I respect your honesty on the issue Johnny. I have personally never driven while under the influence, and I've made my opinion about people that do known. Moreover, it's about a person's complete lack of consideration of the risk they pose to others that gets me. But on the other hand when a person says, I've messed up but I'm working on it, that's a long, long way from "if you're drink driving this holiday season, try to avoid the police."
Now let's all get drunk in the comfort of our own homes!!!!!
Peace
K.
You really don't understand what I am saying?
There is no army of smokers banging down the door that I am stopping. In total, people are merely allowed to smoke less. How is this a bad thing? If more bartenders denied drinks after people became wasted, it would also not be a bad thing. I say that as a man who will pound whiskey with you any day of the goddamn week!
There are lots of bars and clubs that are, I believe, better for the ban - that's as a patron. As a citizen. And as a sometime-smoker, I have no problem with taking it outside. I don't know what battle you're fighting - if we legalized weed, which I advocate, I still wouldn't think it was OK to have a club reeking of pot.
Surely this kind of duality is why I could never be a politician, and why when you question me like I'm supposed to be one, it just looks ridiculous. If you don't know anyone who doesn't mind someone lighting up something next to them no matter how illegal it may be then you have clearly been out the game too long!
New York New York, not so much.
In other news, GO GIANTS!
way to suck a dick. and way to pat yourself on the back.
p.s. step your reading comprehension game up.
Drive home drunk from the club, try my best not to mess up
I understand what you're saying and I think it's hypocritical.....you don't.
I think supporting a smoking ban and then breaking said ban by allowing folks to smoke in your store when you want is hypocritical.....you don't.
I think supporting a law that bans smoking, supposedly for the safety of innocent victims, and then driving stoned or drunk is hypocritical.....you don't.
Obviously we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'll forgo using the obligatory graemlins.
Are you calling me a hypocrite because I support a ban that is lackadaisically enforced in my city, a ban that I flout yet appreciate for the portion of good it does? Should I remind you that my shop is (cigarette) smoke-free the vast majority of the time?
I don't get your crusade against "hypocrisy" Rich. I don't think my ideas are radical. The reason this ban works in my city is because most people feel like me.