Producers-Tips for No-Name Cats to Get "Heard"
Big_Stacks
"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey "Known" Soulstrut Producers,I write to ask what tips you guys (e.g., Jake One, Stein-Ski, MoSS and others) have for no-name producers like me to get "heard" to obtain production work with major (signed) artists. Maybe I'm wrong but I hear a lot stuff and think, "I've got stuff that can compete with that" (please let me know in a PM if I'm fooling myself, here is some of my music Big Stacks's Soundclick Site ); yet, I don't have connections for the right people to hear my stuff to get my productions to artists. I keep thinking if some artists heard my stuff, they would like it (who knows) and buy some beats for their albums. I'm curious as to how you guys get in the door and get work. I thank you in advance for your advice and suggestions.Peace,Big Stacks from Kakalak
Comments
I'd love to hear what the known dudes think though!
I have had local artists, but I have never been able to connect with signed artists for whom to play my material and possibly get a beat or two on a mass distributed CD. I'd love to know how to get that "in". Even Mister Cee (who I met in '89 and stayed in touch with through the years) fronted on me when I asked him about sending a beat CD, citing he was gettin' his own hustle on. I had a similar encounter with Dres down in Fayetteville (NC) asking him to listen to some stuff I had on hand. The closest I got was being asked to produce some stuff for Payroll Records back in '89 (e.g., Bizzie Boys, Supreme Nyborn), but nothing jumped off. I got close to getting an artist deal with Idolmakers in '92 with the group Birds of a Feather (from whom I posted some tracks on my website), while Baby Chris and Jerome Syndenham (used to be at East-West) passed on it.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Worked nicely for me and you don't necessarily need to have a recording deal to get it on....but having a publishing deal in place can heighten your chances of landing a recording contract. It's an option...
Thanks, Belson. I don't really want an artist/producer "deal," I just want to sell some tracks for professional artists' albums. I have a day job, but I would love to get my music "out there" on a professional level. By the way, how do you go about getting a publishing deal? Signing up with ASCAP or BMI?
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
My experience was via recommendation. A friend of mine was running his own label and forwarded my music to Bug Music, who have an office on Sunset Blvd. Others I know have singled out various publishing divisions like Chrysalis etc and put together a folio disc. There's no one correct route....it's always still a bit of a lottery.
While im far from what i would call a "known" producer, ive been doing it for a few years. Sold a few tracks to some major artists, but have yet to get any of them actually released. It can be a very frustrating game, but it is possible.
My advice would be to send stuf out all you can to any relationships you have. A&r's, artists are best, but if you live in the area its really not all that hard to get a meeting somewhere. Management is tricky, cause alot of them have tons of clients and basicly just pass out beat cd's until something sticks and take 20%. If you can find one where you can be a priority than it can be a good idea.
Really though you should just continue making music because its fun for you and do it for the love. If you can get it poppin through one of your connects, then thats all good, but dont let the struggle get into your creative process.
But basicly if you can get anyones G-mail account who's anywhere in a position of power, you would be suprised how many of them will listen to random tracks they get in the mail.
Yeah, gaining a publisher is always a personal deal - I got 80/20 in my favour with no obligation to provide a miniumum number of tracks. If the publisher liked it, he took it. No advance either, but he definitely pushed my tracks and I got some nice work out of it.
no advance? You must have had major faith in the dude.
Known, big
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
i am in no rush to get "big", but i always make it a point to keep my music (cd's) on me nearly all the time. in my backpack, at work, in the car, with me at the club/bar/concert. you never know who you'll see or meet. cause it just takes one time to slip where you miss "that chance."
a pet peeve of mine is when i meet someone who is all hype about their music but when asked to have a demo/cd they're stuck... makes for good bar talk, but gets old after awhile. but that's just me...
Hey Izm,
I live in New Jersey. I figured there might be a conflict of interest asking my questions to producers on the board, but hey, you never know until you ask. My thought was that established producer cats wouldn't care if a "no-name" dude like me got some pointers. Bear in mind, I didn't intend for them to give me names and contacts or anything (this would be silly), just general strategies for forging a path. Given my socialistic frame of mind, my notion is that there is enough bread for anyone willing to work for it (then again, this is America, though, land of the selfish and greedy). Thanks for your candor and advice, mane!
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I really dont think the conflict of interest thing holds any weight. I mean, its not like theres some super secret to it that everyone is witholding on purpose. Yes, having an arrangement with an a&r can help, but in alot of cases those guys dont have as much pull as the think they do, and these days alot of them wont be having jobs for too much longer.
I feel like ive been pretty forthcoming on here and gave you all the info that i really have. But i still say the best advice is network all you can, and stay making music. And most importantly, dont let the buisiness of it ever get in the way of what you love to do. Make good music and things will work out for you.
Hey Bsides,
I wasn't referring to you, but the general lack of responses to the post despite an inordinate amount of views. I appreciate your candid responses I just wish there were additional insights shared by others. In general, in my profession (as a faculty member), I am very forthcoming and generous in offering advice to "newbies" when they seek it because I like to see them succeed. I thought this orientation might extend to musical production, but it appears this notion may not be as strong in this profession. I could be wrong since I'm merely speculating about the lack of responses.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
thanks man, but i think the innordinate amount of views is probably from fellow no name cats looking for the same insight. In my experience other producers will almost always pass shit on to the next ear if they think its quality, but if not, then you dont take it personal and keep it moving.
Im very sure that others will give you more advice on here though, just give it a minute.
I think B Sides summed it up pretty good. Getting major label placements is becoming more difficult each day. Not nearly as many records are being made in general and the majority of most albums are being handled by in house production teams that the artist or manager is pimping out. Put that on top of how many of the big name producers have little dudes actually doin their beats and the outlook is kinda bleak. With the sales going down, the budgets are shrinking. Unknown producers are gettin like 2-5K for a beat at most and sometimes less.
As far as getting your stuff out there, you're goin to have to find somebody to hustle for you. If you're not willing to intern or insert yourself in some random "rap crew" situation that's really the only way. A&R's don't really have much to do with making the albums anymore for the most part. Most artists have their own team of people that they get beats from etc. In the end you have to give a lot to give some. Any manager who can actually make something happen is goin to take a cut. Could be 20-50% depending on who it is. At this point with the million producers that are out there, beats are more disposable. Its pretty easy to find mediocre producers, they are a dime a dozen on Myspace.
Your boy Danja got to hate you with a passion, man!
He makes the hits while you taking all the credit, damn!
Scott gave him a bar with that line.
I forgot to say the fastest way to make it at this point is to steal a bunch of peoples beats under the guise of a "production team".
The A&R thing i mentionned, it's also true that it's dying slowly, but if i mentionned it, that's only because it's still works for me. As Jake (or Bsides) try to intend, what works for me may not work for you. There's no "proper" way. You gotta break the doors and get in by any means. Even unusual means. One day i walked in a studio session while a famous rapper was auditionning beats from a famous producer. I went in and gave the enginner my CD and told him i had to listen to something real quick. He pressed play. The 10 secinds he played was enough for the rapper to ask me to rewind and let it play. Next thing you know he called me for beats. There's so many weird situations to make product placement...lol.
Ah yea, one last thing...If i wasked you where do you live, that's because im not familiar with peddling beats everywhere. I did the east coast mostly. One thing that worked for me (i got Rhymefest like that) is to hit those parties they throw up in NY, Downtown. Hipsters bars mostly. Around 5/6 pm until 8/9 pm you can get to meet rappers, managers and such. Don't ask me how, but i always managed to find those events while talking with people in record stores (for example). Again, it's part of the whole networking activity. You still need to go down there your own self and socialize on your own.
Thanks for all of the advice you guys shared. When the time comes, I'll have some idea of how to work it. My plan, first and foremost, is to work on my rap CD when we buy a house (and I unpack and rev up my gear again). I figure this might be a way to get my beats out there (supplemented with rhymes), to get a listen. I'll also compile my best tracks for a beat CD and peddle it. Good lookin' out, guys, I appreciate it!!!
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Do it yourself. Put out your own music, market and distribute it, promote it and get on. Why try to find someone to do something you can do yourself? Build up your name and your reputation then the deals and people will come to you.
Like start small and local. Then move up to regional sales. Work college markets. Labels want to see that you can handle your shit and you have a fanbase. They wont just straight hire you out the woodwork on the strength of your tape. They want to see that you already have shit lined up and are making real moves with a following on your own. And it works better this way, you dont have to recoup anyhing or pay a bunch of middle men to handle your shit. Down the road when its time get management, pr people, and booking agents. But even these cats wont fuck with you unless your at least on a regional level.
Thats a quick summary of what i can recall at the moment from a few books im reading. Check out the Ruthless Guide to Self Promotion, How to Get a record deal, and the countless of other industry books in your local barnes n noble. This doesnt necessarily apply to a hip hop producer, but as a broad musician/artist perspective.
My advice is to make a project Stacks, something complete and tangible with artwork, mastering and the whole nine, and press up as many as you can and just get them in stores, real and digital. Send out a well made press kit to local papers, college papers, college radio, record stores, labels, whatever, and get your shit reviewed. Network at industry events, trade shows, live shows, etc.. Do promotional shows and work some marketing techniques, figuring out your demographic to a tee and how to cater to that crowd by what they look at and read, web, mags, etc... Generate some interest then release it pseudo professionally. Then maybe try to get distribution through a national distributor. Then down the road people will come to you cause they see your making the real world moves. Then even then wait till you find something good. Dont jump on the first thing that comes. Try taking care of it on your own and you can have your own label.
I dunno if this is right or wrong homie cause i havent tried it. but when i get the motiviation and the capital thats the route im heading. Its a slow build but its the way that i think it can become a career.
Hey LowEnd,
The information you provided seems more appropriate for a cat trying to make a living as an artist. Me, I want to make beats and get on some artists' CDs of note and make a little scrilla. I have a day job, but my thought is I can get a little extra bread selling some tracks. Putting together my own CD is one of those "things I'd like to do before I die," sort of things. Also, I see it as a conduit to get my beats heard and get some work. I definitely DO NOT want to be an artist, but a producer making tracks for artists (who someone other than his/her friends and family know about). Thanks for the tips!!!
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Sall good homie. Then just keep pimping the beat tapes and get that work. Good luck man and i hope to hear some big stacks on some internationally known steez.
Man, that is some great advice. It's really what I needed to hear. Thanks.
- spidey
oh god. the "production team"!! lolz! Or how about the "LLC"? ooohh.
Ive been hit up to do one of those in house things for a couple artists, what they basicly amount to is a jerk song deal where they get a guaranteed cheap ass rate, you get raped on your publishing, no guaranteed placements, and no advance.
Now what kind of fuckin deal is that i ask you?
Stacks, if you are about to buy a house off whatever it is you do (teaching right?) then id probably not give that up for a shot at being a hip hop producer. Just because you dont get on any big records doesnt mean your beats arent good, or that you are any less credible of an artist when it comes down to it.
Im gonna say it one more time before im out, Ask yourself if you would still be doing it if all the money dried up, and really consider it before you jump at music hardcore for a career. If the answer is yes then still try to approach it like you dont even give a fuck and you will make better music and have way more fun in the process.
Peace.
P.S. See stacks? You got all the big soulsrut dudes in here giving you their honest advice. There aint no secret game here.
Thanks, B-sides!!! Nah, dawg, I wouldn't quit my daytime hustle to produce in hip-hop. Shiiiiiit, I'm too old for that, I have a family, and music is mad fickle nowadays.. I just wanna make some hot beats and get some credible, signed artists on them. You're right, cats came through on the advice tip, now it's up to the listeners to act on it or not. I appreciate the wise words that have been spoken.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak