Public Transportation + You (NRR)
onetet
1,754 Posts
I'm a lifelong pedestrian... never owned a car and never will. For economic, environmental, and health reasons, I've set up my life so that I can get to work and most everything else I need by foot.Baltimore doesn't make that easy for me. The public transportation here borders on nightmarish -- one subway line that goes nowhere, one disconnected light rail line that goes nowhere, and an unreliable bus system that fails to link many major neighborhoods. To top it all off, the only affordable train to DC (the MARC) doesn't run on weekends. I'm starting to get involved in advocating for public transportation innovations here -- writing letters to the city council led to me having some in-depth discussions with local transportation experts and advocates. It's frustrating at times, because very little money has been allocated for public transport, and that which does exist is going towards arguably ill-conceived plans that won't even come to fruition for 10-15 years minimum. Being able to walk, bike, or especially ride a subway is so much a part of my conception of the beauty of city life that it's ironic that I've stayed in Baltimore for 11 years now given all its deficiencies in this department. That said, on the rare occassions when the light rail or the subway actually help me out with my daily travels, it's a beautiful feeling.Meanwhile, I'm curious... what's the public transportation situation like where you're based, and how much a part of your daily life is it?I'm very familiar with the situations in DC, NYC, and Philly; fairly so with Toronto, San Francisco, Montreal, and Chicago. But wherever you live, I'm interested in your perspectives.
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I live in LA...where it takes 20 min to get from my house to Encino by car or 3 hours by bus. I own a car.
the only people that use the subway are people that park and ride to downtown for work pretty much. The subway here is WAYYYYY limited. kinda sucks, public transportation here sucks, but it's mostly because LA isn't really a city it's a county that acts like one city so you have all these different bus routes within individual cities. The problem is, most people need to go inter-city, so you have to follow a random ass city route just to get to the bus rout e in the next city and do the same again. There's not many straight shot busses between cities like there are for individual streets in other major cities.
does the LA subway have multiple lines, or just one?
it strikes me how every NYC film features the subway, but I can't think of many films set in LA w/ the subway prominently featured.
it's a few lines, kinda forms a big "Y". you can see a pdf of it here metro rail
it's a pretty lame attempt at a public transportation system, but once again it's because you're dealing with a county and not a city.
The NYC transit system is going thru some changes recently. Bloomberg & them have some money issues on the table. Plus the fair might fuckin go up again due to the cost of some the "improvements" being made.
A long awaited 2nd ave line is also in the works which would really take a load of of the 4,5,6 lines on the East side of Man-Hatt.
I grew up on the trains and continue to use them. I dont drive (NYC Hick-shit) so im dependant.
If anything besides service enhances, someone should publish a Manners & Behavior Regulations Manual for some those dumb and clueless muthafuckas who fuck shit up for the riders.
If your too large to fit in between my 6'4" frame and someone else. Take the loss and dont try to squeeze yourself in and make 3 people uncomfortable. Take the loss and stand Bitch.
Dont stop at the top/bottom of the stairs to catch your breath or look for directions - MOVE.
Ur blockin the flow - Bitch.
It costs $65 a month for a pass, and that doesn't get you on the coaster.
It's just a symptom of the type of development that has occurred in the region-- everything is pretty sprawled out, there's not a lot of density, so efficient public transit is pretty expensive to run.
There's also a lot of the NIMBY mindset in communities surrounding San Diego, which makes it extremely difficult to construct projects that would make sense (trolley extension to UCSD, etc.) because the HOA's and city council persons continually stand in the way of such development.
I'm one of the few people without a car I know of right now, but it looks like I'll get one in the near future. Southern CA is really horrible without one.
its not actually as bad as it seems tho. there are rapid lines that will take you from the beach to downtown in around a hour or less. the main problem with the bus system in la is that it is poorly managed. buses running east/west run much more efficiently than buses running north/south. which is retarded cuz there is a greater need for those riding north/south than east west.
as far as movies featuring the LA metro, i can think of at least 2, but i know theres more. speed and the italian job [remake].
I have a car now, but I don't really drive all that much--I still take BART to work and all that. Being able to drive to gigs is nice, too. But driving is more a luxury than a necessity for the most part, and I treat it as such.
well, Hong Kong is transit-oriented and has always been known for efficient public transport, the transit really does take you anywhere you need to go for your daily needs, but then of course we are a much smaller and compact city compared to where all of you are living in (land area wise)
the problem is though, Hong Kong has such limited land resources, so transit operator became a monopoly and started jeopardizing the development potential of land on top of transit stations, because they realise the importance of transit oriented public transport means enormous amount of people going thru everyday, this inflates the value of land that are situated right on top of transit stations. this became somewhat a 'free-pass' for transit operator in Hong Kong to strike a deal with the government, they 'create' a community and even provide them public transport facilities, and the government can only nod their head to it. this have since became the sole development pattern in Hong Kong for pretty much the last 15 years
so what you see now are huge concrete shopping mall w/ high-density residential comprehensive developments (we're talking 60 storeys high here!) often situated right on top of transit stations...and usually not just 1 single tower, but 5 to 10 residential towers that could cater for anything from 8,000 to 9,000 households all up!
from a point to a node, then from a node grew into a cluster, then from one cluster grew into 10 and multiply-on, all along the transit lines on all bound, resulting in new towns after new towns of transit-oriented communities...
but they don't realise, this abusive development behavior have now come to a saturated period...whats the result ? these kind of comprehensive development are becoming over-supplied, and in every one of these transit stations there is one suburban scale shopping mall right on top of it but there are rarely any businesses amongst their tenants !
I would further Batmon's critique of NYC transit by adding that dumb asses, old people, and everyone else should not stand in front of the doors when the train pulls into the station. I regularly check people when I get offr the train. Old ladies, teenage girls, big ass dudes, it doesn't matter. Step to the side and let people off or get run into. Also, don't walk with your dumb self in the middle of the stairs, or on the wrong side of the stairs because I'm staying busy running into you there to.
JimBeam, I do not know how on earth you get by in San Diego without a car. The transit system there is terrible, almost as bad as LA.
Santa Cruz has a really phenomenal bus system for such a small area, as long as you weren't around for the 4 month bus driver strike. What I like is that SCMTD is quick to change up their schedules and routes when it's needed. It's impressive that they have been able to keep up with the university's rapid expansion.
I've lived in three different cities and of those Melbourne and Sydney have reasonable PT systems, and Auckland's is a bit woeful
Melbourne has trams, trains and buses
Two different tram lines run past my house and they run pretty much regularly from 6am to 12.30 am every day of the week
I'm also a very close walk to two different train stations, one of which is a major hub meaning I can get me to places slightly further afield if need be
I don't own a car, and minimise my own use of PT through walking and riding - I do though appreciate the fact that its there for when I need it
In Sydney PT is based around trains and buses - the system is kinda over-stretched up there & it can take a while to get around but its there
The buses are really regular but they're kind of hulking and noisy .. that said they're also interesting for an insight to the local populace, especially the 380 which runs to / from Bondi beach
In Auckland there was never the critical population mass to sustain an inner city rail network of real substance & buses have been the predominant form of PT there for decades - the city is incredibly sprawling though, which means that lots of people drive & buses take forever to get places as they're always caught up in the traffic. Unfortunately Auckland is a car and road dominated city
In recent years a new inner city 'loop' bus has been introduced which can be good if it suits your needs and admittedly efforts have been directed towards boosting the usage of rail - that said the rail network there is bit of a shocker. When I was there a few weeks ago I saw trains running through boom gates which were a mere two carriages long - mad pathetic, looked like a toy train
The MARTA is one of the worst PT systems I've been on. Completely insufficient for non-whites not trying to go from the airport to Alpharetta. Must have been worse before 1996, when (I'm told) the Olympics forced the city to spend big on public transportation.
Chicago's CTA gets a lot of guff from its riders, but in my opinion, it seriously kicks ass when the big picture is considered. Internal mismanagement, cronyism and under-funding from the State are rife, but hey - this is Chicago. It's the only way we know how.
One of the things I found out in talking to Baltimore transport planners is that basically subway construction in the US was halted as of the late 70s... the cost of a subway is about twice as much as a light rail/trolley system, and cities/states depended on federal money for subway construction.
According to Bmore planners, basically no city has gotten federal $$$ sufficient for subway expansion since the late 70s, with the exception of NYC and DC; basically, you have to prove you have amazing ridership numbers to get money for "hard rail" (subway) construction from the feds, and only those cities have the numbers. Of course, the Catch-22 there is that this ignores the "if you build it, they will come" potential for subway systems, which almost certainly draw in more new riders that busses (which most cities prioritize these days).
So basically, if we here in Baltimore want a subway expansion, we need the federal government to totally reprioritize public transportation. One would think w/ environmental issues on everyone's mind there might be some potential for this, but bear in mind the dip in federal money for public transport didn't dip with Bush 2, it goes back to Carter.
With federal money, new subways could be planned and built w/in 5 years. W/o, a single new light-rail line will take 10-15 years to construct.
As an aside, can anyone contradict this info I'm getting from Bmore planners -- do you live somewhere where underground subway construction has happened in the last 20 years or so, built with federal $$$?
So I live in Toronto, Home to the TTC, the Scarborough RT, and the new shepard line. There also is a bus system for Missauga and York Region. The sheppard line was built since it was the busiest bus route on the TTC, makes sense. However the TTC is not getting enough funding from our wonderful government. This has resulted in fair hikes with worse service. They are also considering shutting down the sheppard line because its not getting used as much as expected, to save money. I take the subway 4 days a week to school, the service has drove me nuts so I bought a kryptonite new yorker lock and am going to bike since it doesnt take me much longer.
I was just in Austria and their service is incredible. In Vienna they have a dedicated lane for rapid transit so even when its rush hour the public transit is not effected. In Salzburg they have paths for bikes only! Unlike the martin goodman trail in Toronto you don't have to dodge pedestrians, people learning to rollerblade, and other annoyances.
For the past 20 years, there has been at least 7 - 10 transit extensions (3 of them are new lines) for the MTR in Hong Kong, I dare say each one of them are partly or wholy funded by the HKG government.
i can't believe it until i came to realise the fact that most of these are already in operation, while only one or two are recently completed and not yet in operation.
But I'm very interested in the situation around the world, too. For instance, they've been trying to fund a mag-lev train between Bmore and DC for about 15 years now. The train would reduce the commute from Bmore to DC from an hour to about 15 mins. Supposedly if they got the funds today it would take 10-15 more years to build it.
Meanwhile, I've heard that in Shanghai they were trying to build a mag-lev train to cover a comparable distance -- and had it funded and built within 1-2 years.
I have major gripes with the CTA in Chicago right now. ^as per what luck said, everybody thinks its amazing until you have to ride it everyday during rush hour with your face in someones armpit because the train only comes once every 25 minutes. I hear it depends on what line youre on too, which makes sense with all the yuppies moving from red line territory to wicker park the train just hasnt caught up with the influx of assholes. Talking about raising rates again too, which everyone knows aint gonna fix shit. Buses here are random at best.
New York gets it done though! its pretty amazing how well that system works! You pay 1500+ a month to live there shit better work.
dang thats crazy, never had a problem with the price/speed of the marc train. that was another great thing i diddnt take enough advantage of.
For the mag-lev train, I think the idea is that it could really transform Baltimore to be so connected to the nation's capitol. I'm guessing the advantages would be primarily for the private sector, but I'd have some hope that it would put Baltimore on the federal radar a little more in ways that would benefit residents more directly as well. Plus, my understanding is that the mag-lev trains are much better for the environment.
As for Baltimore... I walk distances people wouldn't usually think of walking; I often walk from Hampden or Charles Village to Fells Point (about 1 hr 15 mins), and my walk from home to work every day is 45 mins or so. But it's absurd that certain neighborhoods aren't connected by transport. I mean, a subway under Charles Village good get you from Waverly to Hampden in about 2 mins, but because Johns Hopkins University and Wyman Park are in the way, the same distance via a drive takes about 15 mins, and to walk takes about an hour.
Similarly, that Charles Village to Fells Point walk that takes an hour and 15 mins is a 10-minute drive... which sucks for a pedestrian, as my favorite record spot in town is down there.
LOL
yeah, public transportation in baltimore might as well not exist. lot of white people in the suburbs are afraid that subways/light rails leading out of the city will lead to black people living among them.
i live in charlottesville now and walk 45 minutes to work. its nice though, get to catch up on the news and shit with podcasts. sucks once it gets hot though.
Overall, my favourite subway systems in the world are....
1) Hong Kong's MTR - Octopus cards are a godsend.
2) NYC's MTA - Yes, rats all over, but it runs all night.
3) London's Underground - only complaint is the early closing. The breath of area covered is ultra convenient.
Toronto's public transit infrastructure is making me rethink my long term plans in this city. I hope to phase out car ownership w/i 5 yrs, and Toronto as a city doesn't match these plans. I am getting sick & tired of the constant signal problems/delays on the TTC. In the past 2 weeks, it has happened to me 3 times, tacking on commute times from 15 - 30 mins.
I highly recommend this piece on commuting that was in a recent issue of The New Yorker.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/16/070416fa_fact_paumgarten
Louisville: Buses- thats it. The general population doesn't use them. We are very dependent on our fossil fuel burning cars. Light Rail has been an idea, but were 10 years behind everyone. The buses get a bad image throughout our town. My dad drove the city bus for 20 years. I heard the stories. Our town has a strong sense of segregation and ignorance in its mind still. I like the bus, and get to ride it for free as a government employee, yet it takes an hour and half to get somewhere on a bus rather than 20 to 25 minutes in an automobile.
Amsterdam (Holland): Gets my vote for best of public transportation + citizen. Hands down.
San Francisco: I like the Caltrain, I was able to hit 5 cities in 4 hours on that thing.
Chicago: Great transportation system, its a lifestyle there, I could understand the daily grind getting to a man using it everyday. Chicago has was we don't have, so anything is better to me.
I love hearing the international views on this.
Meanwhile, who else is carless? Anyone able to use public transport to go digging? Any DJs carless and manage to make it out to gigs without a vehicle?
One reason why the Metro doesn't figure in prominently within popular culture representations of L.A. is because it's so relatively new. People's impressions of LA is of endless rivers of asphalt and concrete for cars, not a subway/elevated system and given the limitations of that system - as many have noted - it's not like it's even a visible part of L.A. life or culture. It's entirely easy to drive across L.A. and never once see the train (unlike BART or MUNI in the Bay Area). I commute from Santa Monica to Long Beach everyday (~30 miles each way) and I never, ever see the train even though my route should take me past part of the Red Line.
The thing to keep in mind also though is that the creation of the freeway L.A. in the post-War years came at the cost of the extensive rail lines that once existed here. It's hard to believe, but L.A., like many urban centers, had a very extensive set of railcar lines all across the city. This is a map of the old "Red Car" system by Pacific Electric and it wasn't even the biggest rail line in the city:
Basically, the railways in L.A. fell victim to the heavy investments in freeway and automobile infrastructure that got pushed here beginning as early as the 1930s but really came in a boom during the suburbinization of L.A. post-WWII.
Ironically, most of the new railways are being built along old routes.
However, I would say that public transport is quite good throughout Germany in general.