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sourced a record. advice plaese.

shitzrshitzr 648 Posts
edited August 2007 in Strut Central
so i'm having lunch with an original member of a local band that recorded and released a monster raer. basically i'm going to do a little interview with him about the band and the local scene in the sixties and seventies. he says he might have a copy of the raer for me so i'm crossing my fingers.if any of you experienced[/b] dudes who do this on the daily could be so kind, i'd appreciate any advice on what i should ask or important etiquette on convincing him to allow me to work towards a proper re-release of said raer.thanks in advance record dudes.

  Comments

  • spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
    I'm getting started trying to work on a similar deal, not necessarily to reissue anything on my own but to get together old members of the group so that the record can get reissued by a label with proper distribution, because it's a track that needs to be heard. Any advice would be great as well.
  • djsheepdjsheep 3,620 Posts
    Just be straight up with the dude about the appreciation of his music and how you think it needs to be heard again, most peoples will be overwhelmed! Are you reissuing Boscoe?
  • ageage 1,131 Posts
    Hey R****y:

    Right now I am in the process of working with these 5 groups of getting some stuff togther.4 of them had a release and 1, just on a local radio comp(But they have 2 albums worth of stuff that is just..unreal weird fusion jazz/psych madness).

    If anything, you are just as curious to know things like how it got started, road stories, why they played what they played, etc.Like B** says, just be straight up and if anything, give them a big piece of the pie R****y.if they are willing to hook you up witha copy or their own copy(in this case this has happended before)If they are willing to give it to you.Offer the same recording on a different format(may it be tape,cd,wav file,reel,8-track,etc..)just do what you can in order to make you both happy.

    I hope it works out and good luck homie!

    Much peace and respect:
    Adrian
  • jinx74jinx74 2,287 Posts
    who is it? just saying... ive only been researching local bay area music for 10yrs. give me a call.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Why is everyone trying to source/track artists now? Seriously sometimes cats need to think twice before getting too deep into it. You can get over your head really quick and it's not fair to the artist or the fans if you end up bungling the project. Sometimes you only get one pop. I've seen it happen, trust me.

    No disrespect but there are a lot of people who are pros at this. Reissuing a record is not a small thing. I would talk to guys who have a large body of knowledge and a proven track record and work out an arrangement whereby you get compensated for your efforts, but get it to someone who is capable of giving the "monster raer" the treatment it deserves. Usually when part time cats try to pull this kind of thing off it ends badly. I'm sure your heart is in the right place but... I would talk to the guys in your area (Torres, Veltri... etc) who have done this before and who can probably do it better than you. Again, no disrespect intended...
  • spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
    Why is everyone trying to source/track artists now? Seriously sometimes cats need to think twice before getting too deep into it. You can get over your head really quick and it's not fair to the artist or the fans if you end up bungling the project. Sometimes you only get one pop. I've seen it happen, trust me.

    No disrespect but there are a lot of people who are pros at this. Reissuing a record is not a small thing. I would talk to guys who have a large body of knowledge and a proven track record and work out an arrangement whereby you get compensated for your efforts, but get it to someone who is capable of giving the "monster raer" the treatment it deserves. Usually when part time cats try to pull this kind of thing off it ends badly. I'm sure your heart is in the right place but... I would talk to the guys in your area (Torres, Veltri... etc) who have done this before and who can probably do it better than you. Again, no disrespect intended...

    Yeah, really that's why I have no intention of trying to do this myself, this kinda fell into my lap through a random connection. I just want to get the ball rolling because I know that the person trying to get things going right now doesn't really know how to present himself and make things happen. If anyone here has deep knowledge on Minnesota area funk/soul stuff, holler on the PM.
  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    Not that I have any experience in this, so take it for what it's worth, but since we started our website we've had a fair amount of artists get in touch and many of them would like to see their stuff reissued... which has led me to talking to a lot of people who know how to do it. Basically, as a normal dude, I was surprised to find out how much of a commitment I would be looking at. My enthusiasm waned as I found out about things like needing lawyer so I don't get sued and hearing stories about artists going totally agro. It began to seem like the easy part was possibly blowing your savings to have a product that very possibly will not sell. I definitely ended up having a great deal of respect for the people who do this stuff. So it's kinda mildly disturbing to see that finding a record and diving into tracking these people down is becoming like the trendy new one-ups-mans-ship of record message boards. I get the impression that often the record geek fantasy stuff is glossing over a lot of the practical stuff. Definitely get on the phone and exchange emails with as many people with experience as possible before getting too into it.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    it's kinda mildly disturbing to see that finding a record and diving into tracking these people down is becoming like the trendy new one-ups-mans-ship of record message boards. I get the impression that often the record geek fantasy stuff is glossing over a lot of the practical stuff. Definitely get on the phone and exchange emails with as many people with experience as possible before getting too into it.

    indeed


    It's cool to get a copy of a rare record (hopefully you pay them well for it) but seriously... it's fucked to take folks' careers into your hands without really being committed.

    I tried tracking a few things and totally gave up because I just do not have the time or energy. Now any time I have something interesting I farm it out to guys that do it full-time.

    I can't understand why some dudes are doing it either. Unless you are full-time dealer why would you want a 30-box of a title you can't move? What ends up happening is the record just sits and ends up in every trade or sale list and the demand wanes and the value drops. Makes no sense for anyone.
  • shitzrshitzr 648 Posts
    sheep and adr**n: thank you very much for your helpful advice. much appreciated. and no sheep, it's not boscoe.

    justin: it's not a bay area record. i'm in hawaii right now. i'll holler at you when i get back to the bay.

    johnny: you're assuming too much, holmes. i plan on seeking help from those who do it full time for such a project. i thought that was obvious in my initial post. i know that there was no disrespect intended, but i can't help but read, "Fall back, little dude". just sayin...

    hcrink: thank you for your insights.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts


    johnny: you're assuming too much, holmes. i plan on seeking help from those who do it full time for such a project. i thought that was obvious in my initial post. i know that there was no disrespect intended, but i can't help but read, "Fall back, little dude". just sayin...

    I wasn't totally speaking on your thing, but more the general trends... lots of dudes all of a sudden have sourced records and part of the explanation is comps and reissues... yet what ends up being the case is that they just wanted to get a copy of the record or some shit to trade out... yeah, I don't really know what your situation is to speak on it but at the same time you're asking a message board how to handle a reissue project... anyway, I don't want to turn this into some meta argument about who should and shouldn't reissue things... but I work in records for a living and even I don't have the time or patience to take on this sort of project so I guess that was my advice to you. Again no disrespect hommie.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    it's kinda mildly disturbing to see that finding a record and diving into tracking these people down is becoming like the trendy new one-ups-mans-ship of record message boards.

    Is this really new though? Hasn't this trend been going on for years and years? Provided, I guess I'm saying this because I hear stories from people like Chris, Justin, Egon, etc. and obviously, they're not exactly "new" to this.

    But my thinking about Strut posts over the years, it seems like people have always been trying to track down OG artists; we've had the whole "ethics" debate about this going back years.
  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    it's kinda mildly disturbing to see that finding a record and diving into tracking these people down is becoming like the trendy new one-ups-mans-ship of record message boards.

    Is this really new though? Hasn't this trend been going on for years and years? Provided, I guess I'm saying this because I hear stories from people like Chris, Justin, Egon, etc. and obviously, they're not exactly "new" to this.

    But my thinking about Strut posts over the years, it seems like people have always been trying to track down OG artists; we've had the whole "ethics" debate about this going back years.

    It's not new... people have been tracking artists to get records and do reissues for decades, and I'm sure a lot of total numb-skulls have been doing it badly for that long. It just seems like it is becoming hipper with record forum "digging" crowd. I'm not referring to anyone in particular, it just seems like a lot of dudes are ending up with boxes of $30 private boners that they can sell for $35 for about a week and then, as Jonny said, they slowly approach worthlessness. I mean, not to be totally negative because some good records get out this way, but it is fairly common to see dudes doing this stuff badly. If I have a point, which I'm not sure I do, it'd be that this kinda thing really should be left to the pros.
  • jinx74jinx74 2,287 Posts
    it's kinda mildly disturbing to see that finding a record and diving into tracking these people down is becoming like the trendy new one-ups-mans-ship of record message boards.

    Is this really new though? Hasn't this trend been going on for years and years? Provided, I guess I'm saying this because I hear stories from people like Chris, Justin, Egon, etc. and obviously, they're not exactly "new" to this.

    But my thinking about Strut posts over the years, it seems like people have always been trying to track down OG artists; we've had the whole "ethics" debate about this going back years.

    It's not new... people have been tracking artists to get records and do reissues for decades, and I'm sure a lot of total numb-skulls have been doing it badly for that long. It just seems like it is becoming hipper with record forum "digging" crowd. I'm not referring to anyone in particular, it just seems like a lot of dudes are ending up with boxes of $30 private boners that they can sell for $35 for about a week and then, as Jonny said, they slowly approach worthlessness. I mean, not to be totally negative because some good records get out this way, but it is fairly common to see dudes doing this stuff badly. If I have a point, which I'm not sure I do, it'd be that this kinda thing really should be left to the pros.

    yeah local folks and out of towners have messed up deals that i had in the works over the years. not saying folks need to check in with me or others who are running around the bay (or your town) digging up info but its recommended. when i went to ohio i hollered at dante, i gave john a call when i headed out to arizona, yoder and i worked together on indiana stuff, etc. i also get calls when folks are trying to run something out this way. except for that crackhead fuck in LA who pulled the heaven sent & ecstacy info. i cant even remember why i want to smack that dude around... but i think its something he said about me that was told to me by a local homie... or maybe i was was misinformed.
  • ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
    so i'm having lunch with an original member of a local band that recorded and released a monster raer. basically i'm going to do a little interview with him about the band and the local scene in the sixties and seventies. he says he might have a copy of the raer for me so i'm crossing my fingers.

    if any of you experienced[/b] dudes who do this on the daily could be so kind, i'd appreciate any advice on what i should ask or important etiquette on convincing him to allow me to work towards a proper re-release of said raer.

    I don't think you need to be a "big dude" but just an honest one, and don't get over your head. Most importantly: if you don't intend to re-release a title, don't say you will!

    I just dealt with a friend who wanted to do vinyl reissues and after 3 months of talks he bailed. So now I'm in a position to explain this to artists I am working with (on digital reissues) why it won't happen. It really really blows. So yeah be serious and honest.

    So let's talk numbers. Reissuing records is seriously not a profitable venture if you do it right, especially for low runs of vinyl. For a run of 500 copies, at a decent wholesale price, you can expect to make $1500 profit (minus pressing costs and artist payments) for pressing, marketing, and selling 500 copies. More if you can sell direct. But you would probably make more money working at starbucks for the same amount of hours you'll put in.

    You will need to have a plan for contracts (legal), publicity, and distribution. Distributing/selling 500 copies is a pain, unless you are playing shows or have a team getting them out there. This is because the state of vinyl distribution is not good. The number of indie record stores out there is dwindling and they do not generally sell a lot of vinyl copies of a title.

    Also if artist is not honest with you, or acts absolutely crazy, be prepared to walk away. These guys frequently have their own complicated lives which they will try to pull you in to. Offer a sympathetic ear but don't get pulled in.

    If all this doesn't scare you feel free to PM me and I'll send you contacts for pressing plants and distributors I have on file.

    WRT to original pressings....

    Personally I try to not get a pile of original pressings for all the reasons pointed out so far, plus, however you slice it, it's likely to result in a pissed off artist. So if an artist has extra copies of albums, I offer to ebay or sell wholesale to dealers original pressings for a small percentage.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    I got you. And yeah, I agree - there's a lot of poor moves in this arena but let's be real about it: it's places like Waxidermy and Strut that have partially fueled the interest of amateurs to go out there and do this kind of shit, even if they're way in over their heads, especially when it gets couched into a hierarchy of "pros vs. non-pros." Every little dude wants to feel like they can play in the majors and when they hear stories of someone - pro or not - pulling a box of mint private-stock 45s or whatever, it only fuels their imagination

    I am not *blaming* folks for sharing their stories and inspiring others (read: noobs) for wanting to step up. But that's a huge part of the inspiration.

    Not sure what the "solution" is though.





    it's kinda mildly disturbing to see that finding a record and diving into tracking these people down is becoming like the trendy new one-ups-mans-ship of record message boards.

    Is this really new though? Hasn't this trend been going on for years and years? Provided, I guess I'm saying this because I hear stories from people like Chris, Justin, Egon, etc. and obviously, they're not exactly "new" to this.

    But my thinking about Strut posts over the years, it seems like people have always been trying to track down OG artists; we've had the whole "ethics" debate about this going back years.

    It's not new... people have been tracking artists to get records and do reissues for decades, and I'm sure a lot of total numb-skulls have been doing it badly for that long. It just seems like it is becoming hipper with record forum "digging" crowd. I'm not referring to anyone in particular, it just seems like a lot of dudes are ending up with boxes of $30 private boners that they can sell for $35 for about a week and then, as Jonny said, they slowly approach worthlessness. I mean, not to be totally negative because some good records get out this way, but it is fairly common to see dudes doing this stuff badly. If I have a point, which I'm not sure I do, it'd be that this kinda thing really should be left to the pros.
  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    it's places like Waxidermy and Strut that have partially fueled the interest of amateurs to go out there and do this kind of shit, even if they're way in over their heads, especially when it gets couched into a hierarchy of "pros vs. non-pros." Every little dude wants to feel like they can play in the majors and when they hear stories of someone - pro or not - pulling a box of mint private-stock 45s or whatever, it only fuels their imagination

    Yeah, it's true, and it's absolutely a complicated issue. And I know I'm being probably overly negative about this. There are some perfectly nice, well meaning people out doing this, and I always hope good will come of it. But I also sometimes get the feeling that it can be a digging ego thing which is fucked up. People need to understand that these are the lives and dreams of real (sometimes unbalanced) people they are potentially messing with to grip on some fucking records. This is where I begin to have really mixed feelings on the matter.
  • ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
    Yeah, it's true, and it's absolutely a complicated issue. And I know I'm being probably overly negative about this. There are some perfectly nice, well meaning people out doing this, and I always hope good will come of it. But I also sometimes get the feeling that it can be a digging ego thing which is fucked up. People need to understand that these are the lives and dreams of real (sometimes unbalanced) people they are potentially messing with to grip on some fucking records. This is where I begin to have really mixed feelings on the matter.

    This is off topic from the original post... but yeah, "sourcing" needs to be less of a don't-ask-don't tell business that is seen as a status symbol of the high-level collector. Many high reputation collectors do it all the time, basically because it's one of the only ways to get quantity of in-demand records in 2007, which to me isn't a justification.
  • parsecparsec 5,087 Posts
    In an attempt to make this thread a little less negative..

    I've sourced a number of artists and I think like Johnny said above, be sure to pay the artist well, that is crucial. Alot of times these artists are thrilled that someone is showing interest in their record that lets face it, not many people cared about while it was coming out. And I don't see how having available quantity is a bad thing in comparison to having all said copies sitting in an artists basement or worse, getting thrown in the dumpster.

    The best thing about this sort of stuff is getting to talk to these guys and hear all the cool stories of the scene back then.
  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    Yeah, I mean, some of the best stuff I get is from people who are tracking down artists and buying their records. I don't see anything wrong with it in theory, and I tend to really only deal with people I know and trust are being fair. It is kind of a scary thought that average soulstrut won't pay $10 for a record little dudes are trying to get into this stuff though. Again, I'm not saying this pertains to anyone in this thread, it's just kinda my take on the general climate of the situation.
  • dreskieboogiedreskieboogie 951 Posts
    I have tracked down a fair share of artists in Denmark which is not that difficult here. Most of them have had a good idea of the value of the extra copies they offered me but most of them did not have any records left but gave up the info I asked for and didn't mind be calling. I also did pass on the contact info for one guy to some friends who licensed the song for reissue which still needs to happen.

    Im still contact with one musician I got hold of some years back.

    I dont think anybody should hold back contacting a local musician but treat them fair and respectful.

    I still want to shake James Lewis Fields hand and tell him how much I appreciate his song "how long shall I wait" on Top Pop Records. Anybody know his where-abouts?

    Peace,

    Dress
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    It seems like tracking down artists and reissuing their work are two very different things. I don't know why anyone would take exception to people tracking down dudes that have been living in obscurity. But when it comes to reissuing stuff I definitely agree that if you don't know what you're doing it's better to leave it to someone that does.
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    I don't know why anyone would take exception to people tracking down dudes that have been living in obscurity.

    uh, maybe because the of that whole "I'll give you $2 per copy on this box of old records...... records that sell for $500 each on ebay..." thing???

  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    oh....that.
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