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Larry Harlow vs. Harvey Averne

Garcia_VegaGarcia_Vega 2,428 Posts
edited July 2007 in Strut Central
On the production tip. Larry has the larger catalouge so he's more prone to criticism, but he also was more influential overall. Harvey produced less records but what he did produce is hard hitting, tough, and gritty. I'm riding for Harvey, although its really close.Who do you got?

  Comments

  • PATXPATX 2,820 Posts
    Give me some of their records and I'll let you know.
  • Garcia_VegaGarcia_Vega 2,428 Posts
    Ha! How come you have all these crazy cumbia and South American records but hardly anything on New York latin labels?! Anyway, who knows, I might trade you some Larry and Harvey records for a certain Ralfi Pagan 45, or should I say, "Bumpshop classic."
  • captainplanetcaptainplanet 626 Posts
    on a related note, can we give it up for Jews that have sabor. Harlow is one of the biggest latin producers of the period, ain't a drop of latin blood in his veins. Avern is Jew too, right? Started off his carreer as "Harvito" or something.
  • DJFerrariDJFerrari 2,411 Posts
    I'm riding for Harvey

    Central Park
    Never learned to Dance
    Can you Dig It

    ... all so dope. I don't listen to much Harlow, though, so I'm not really qualified to judge.
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    on a related note, can we give it up for Jews that have sabor. Harlow is one of the biggest latin producers of the period, ain't a drop of latin blood in his veins.

    on an unrelated note, can we give it up to Harlow for being the first salsa bandleader to grow his hair long? back in the sixties, when long hair was still hip and meant something? as late as 1970, all the other boogaloo bandits still looked like 1950's doo-woppers and here's mr. harlow looking like frank zappa!
  • captainplanetcaptainplanet 626 Posts
    Averne's got more the soul and funk going for him. But if you're into straight salsa, can't really fuck with Harlow. Plus, Harlow did some better than decent funk and soul joints too:

    Freak Off
    that joint from Me & My Monkey
    Dame Un Tipi & My Daddy's Farm (w/ Flamboyan)

    not to mention all the Fania All-Stars and related productions...

    I think I have to ride for Harlow.
  • Garcia_VegaGarcia_Vega 2,428 Posts
    on a related note, can we give it up for Jews that have sabor. Harlow is one of the biggest latin producers of the period, ain't a drop of latin blood in his veins.

    on an unrelated note, can we give it up to Harlow for being the first salsa bandleader to grow his hair long? back in the sixties, when long hair was still hip and meant something? as late as 1970, all the other boogaloo bandits still looked like 1950's doo-woppers and here's mr. harlow looking like frank zappa!

    Haha! This post is fucking awesome! In a way Larry was a lot like Frank in that they were both super serious in the studio and demanded a lot from their players. They didn't call Larry "El Exigente" for nothing! And for the record, Larry didn't grow his hair out until '73 or something.
  • Garcia_VegaGarcia_Vega 2,428 Posts
    Averne's got more the soul and funk going for him. But if you're into straight salsa, can't really fuck with Harlow. Plus, Harlow did some better than decent funk and soul joints too:

    Freak Off
    that joint from Me & My Monkey
    Dame Un Tipi & My Daddy's Farm (w/ Flamboyan)

    not to mention all the Fania All-Stars and related productions...

    I think I have to ride for Harlow.

    Nah, Fania All Stars was a Johnny Pacheco project that basically copied the Tico and Alegre All Starts formula that preceeded them. (In an unrelated note, Johnny Pacheco and Charlie Palmieri were in a big riff when Johnny was tapped to lead the Alegre All Stars and Charlie had to take a back seat.) I know what you mean though, Larry did write some songs for the All Stars, but he had no hand in the production to my knowledge.
    I also see what you mean about the soul/funk vs salsa. Thats why I think its such a close race, which Harvey loses out on but only because he wasn't as prolific as Larry. Given the chance to make as many records, they would be neck and neck. That's why I added productions to the mix, Harvey produced "Acid," "Introducing George Guzman," "Camel Walk," etc, all which have solid salsa tracks on them.
  • captainplanetcaptainplanet 626 Posts
    Harvey produced "Acid," "Introducing George Guzman," "Camel Walk," etc, all which have solid salsa tracks on them.

    wow, that's news to me. still have never heard the full Guzman lp. some of the ladies I work with were tellin me about the old days at the cheetah...

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    on a related note, can we give it up for Jews that have sabor. Harlow is one of the biggest latin producers of the period, ain't a drop of latin blood in his veins.

    on an unrelated note, can we give it up to Harlow for being the first salsa bandleader to grow his hair long? back in the sixties, when long hair was still hip and meant something? as late as 1970, all the other boogaloo bandits still looked like 1950's doo-woppers and here's mr. harlow looking like frank zappa!

    Haha! This post is fucking awesome! In a way Larry was a lot like Frank in that they were both super serious in the studio and demanded a lot from their players. They didn't call Larry "El Exigente" for nothing! And for the record, Larry didn't grow his hair out until '73 or something.

    Oh no, it was way earlier than that. Now, Joe Bataan, HE didn't get a proper Afro till '73 or so, by which time it was a common thing. Ever see one of those old Fania innersleeves, which displays most of their album covers from the label's inception up until '71 or so? Those covers go in chrono order and Harlow got in on the longhair game right on time. I'm guessing '67 or '68 with this album here: , and this was SHORT compared to how it got a year or two later. But he was already rocking the hippie look WAAAY earlier than 1973.

    Which sort of makes him the Waylon Jennings of salsa. Wonder how his audience and other bandleaders reacted to it?
  • Garcia_VegaGarcia_Vega 2,428 Posts
    Harlow got in on the longhair game right on time. I'm guessing '67 or '68 with this album here: , and this was SHORT compared to how it got a year or two later. But he was already rocking the hippie look WAAAY earlier than 1973.

    Which sort of makes him the Waylon Jennings of salsa. Wonder how his audience and other bandleaders reacted to it?


    Ah see, my modern sensibilities call that short hair, but I guess it would've been considered "long" for that time. I was thinking more like this was long hair: which was cut around '72-'73.
  • Garcia_VegaGarcia_Vega 2,428 Posts
    Harvey produced "Acid," "Introducing George Guzman," "Camel Walk," etc, all which have solid salsa tracks on them.

    wow, that's news to me. still have never heard the full Guzman lp. some of the ladies I work with were tellin me about the old days at the cheetah...


    Fuck man, I can't see youtube at work but I'm sure its shredding indeed.
    One or two years ago there was an article in the NYT about this latin collector here in New York that had all these reel to reel recordings of the salsa scene as it was starting. He had all this stuff from The Palladium, The Village Gate, The Cheetah, all those famous clubs. He was trying to get a museum to buy it, as to not break up the collection. I would love to hear that stuff.
    Faux, I think you emailed me that article. You know whatever happened to that guy?
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    Harlow got in on the longhair game right on time. I'm guessing '67 or '68 with this album here: , and this was SHORT compared to how it got a year or two later. But he was already rocking the hippie look WAAAY earlier than 1973.

    Which sort of makes him the Waylon Jennings of salsa. Wonder how his audience and other bandleaders reacted to it?


    Ah see, my modern sensibilities call that short hair, but I guess it would've been considered "long" for that time. I was thinking more like this was long hair: which was cut around '72-'73.

    I'm at work right now, so the album covers don't come to mind, but he definitely grew his hair long earlier than that - definitely on the covers of Me & My Monkey ('70, I think?) and Harlow's Harem('71?), as well as that one-off project he did with the band Ambergris on Paramount (which was 1970).

    And as far as the cover of El Exigente - that may look conservative now, but when you consider that teenaged Willie Colon was probably still rocking tuxedos at the time, Harlow's Nehru jacket and moustache were definitely out there. You can tell that he was heading in a countercultural direction, looks-wise. IIRC, wasn't his new hipster appearance mentioned in the liner notes?

    I don't mean to tie up this thread with discussions of Harlow's fashion sense in the sixties, but it is interesting that he had the psychedelic garb when others in the salsa field didn't.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    Faux, I think you emailed me that article. You know whatever happened to that guy?

    Not sure--have to see if I can find the article and do a web search for updates.
  • SPlDEYSPlDEY Vegas 3,375 Posts


    It's funny to see that Larry to this day can still get down with the hippy rock scene. Even with Short hair and fake tattoos.

    http://www.larryharlow.com/newcontent/MarsVolta.htm
  • DUNE493DUNE493 223 Posts
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U577JMYxG1E
  • DUNE493DUNE493 223 Posts
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SpjiRHzzFc
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