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Jonny_Paycheck
17,825 Posts
RaceSchoolsSegregationDISCUSS
Jonny_Paycheck
17,825 Posts
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Educational apartheid, based upon race, is real in America. Check out Jonathan Kozol's book "Savage Inequalities." It's a disturbing read about how school districting reinforces social stratification by race. Poor kids, by no fault of their own unfortunately, will be relegated probabilistically to becoming poor adults. America is a racist and classist society. However, I remain conflicted because, living in Milwaukee, "my folks" can be on that n***a shit sometimes, and I can see why Joe & Suzy White Folks wouldn't want that shit in their kids' schools. As a middle-class (Black) citizen, I don't want that shit around me either (or my kids, if I had any). Only thing is, poor White kids can get on that n***a shit too. Yet, not all poor folks act this way, so why should they be denied the opportunity for a quality public education based upon general, negative stereotypes of poor (usually dark) folks? Either way, it's a sensitive issue and I can understand both sides of the coin. But in the end, status inequalities, due to structural and socioeconomic barriers, will be maintained (which is what I think some Joe & Suzy White Folks prefer).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Earlier this week they expanded corporate freedom of speech and narrowed individual freedom of speech.
People like me, who voted for Nader because they couldn't see the difference between Bush and Gore, should be shot.
Did I misunderstand something??
:48 pager:
I didn't really mind the freedom of speech case. They said that since the kid was at a school sponsored activity and was expressing an illegal activity (drug use) than he could be suspended. Students in general do not have freedom of speech in school if it breaks the rules. Our school does not allow kids to have t-shirts that advocate drug use. Having a kid take down a poster that said "Bong Hits For Jesus" isn't that much of a big deal to me.
Yeah - unless something changes relatively soon - unexpected deaths and retirements by the far right contingent of the court, Bush's nightmare legacy will continue to haunt us for years to come. It's astounding how much of a mess has been created in so little time.
Hey Rock,
You left out the part where I said people shouldn't stereotype and penalize poor kids from gaining access to a quality education. If you're gonna quote me, please do so in the proper context:
I was merely being even-handed in my critique of the decision, in that I do understand the concerns. The concerns are real, since we have had many incidents of extreme violence against teachers, students, etc. in our inner-city schools (in Milwaukee). Let's deal with what's really going on here, cats are wilin' out; however, I think the arguments against racial integration in schools are racist, stereotypical, classist, and wrong (as I alluded to in my previous post).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I should say that I don't have the same contempt for Kennedy as I do for the other four, but he has consistently voted with them for his own reasons.
Isn't "Joe & Suzy White Folks" a stereotype??
rightwhite wing america). But what is familiar that a lot of people don't give a fucccccccccccck.The fact that you want to debate this really says a lot about you.
C'mon Rock.......
Stacks critiqued boths sides.
Actually, no.
I agree with him that this is a classist issue and society.
But to see a middle class black man state that he has the same ideals as "Joe & Suzy White" in regards to not wanting what apparently comes with racial and economic school intergration, and then suggest those ideals are racist,is wrong.
I have nothing but respect for Big Stacks .....and the best college professors I have known would WANT to have other viewpoints presented.
I sound and am white.
Rock,
I'm just saying I understand the position of "Joe & Suzy White Folks." I also qualified this "stereotype" by saying "some" White folks hold the position. Urban blight is some real-ass shit. Watch Milwaukee News on the daily and you'll hear about it. The issue I have is that pseudo-liberal types dance around this argument and won't be real about it. Wild-ass shit goes on in urban schools, and I understand folks not wanting it to seep out in their relatively-safe suburban schools. I didn't say I necessarily agree with the motive behind the position (general racist stereotypes, cause not all urban folks wile out in school), but the threat is some real shit, not conjured up in the mind. Teachers getting jaws broken, shot, etc. are no joke. I was merely saying that the concerns are not imagined, scared-of-the-boogieman-shit, but should not be generalized to all poor folks, who indeed, have the same right to quality education as privileged suburban kids.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
On the topic of free speech and schools now. As you may know my wife is currently drawing the names of all the coalition forces who died in Iraq on the streets of Portland in chalk. Writing on the sidewalk in chalk is officially graffiti in the eyes of the city. The City Of Portland (COP) has decided to let Nancy go ahead and chalk on the sidewalk. Why? COP knows that if they cite her she will fight it on free speech grounds and win. That will make the current graffiti laws null and void. They can't afford to let that happen. That is the same way I feel about this Alaska free speech case. On the one hand kids in schools have no rights. On the other hand he was off of school grounds making a public statement. I think the school should not have fought the case and I think they should have lost. But hey, I don't make the laws, right wing activist judges make the laws.
Yes, Affirmative Action has been going down the tubes lately. States and other public offices need to carefully word their plans if they want to take into account race to make sure it doesn't play a dominant role, otherwise it'll be overturned by lawsuits.
Overall though, in public schools busing and affirmative action plans aren't as effective as they were when school desegregation first began because most black students are concentrated in urban school districts and whites have left for the suburbs so you're usually dealing with a school district that's already predominately black and minority.
On the free speech case, the kid was on a school sanctioned event to go see the olympic torch. If you were a teacher and brought a kid on a field trip and he acted up could you NOT suspend him because it was off school grounds?
Also in the case, the Court specifically said that they were only ruling aginst the kid because he was advocating drug use, something illegal. They said they were still protecting the rights of social and political protest.
On the free speech case, the kid was on a school sanctioned event to go see the olympic torch. If you were a teacher and brought a kid on a field trip and he acted up could you NOT suspend him because it was off school grounds?
Also in the case, the Court specifically said that they were only ruling aginst the kid because he was advocating drug use, something illegal. They said they were still protecting the rights of social and political protest.
1) Yes you can, and they did, suspend him.
2) He still has a right to fight the suspenction.
3) You don't get to pick and choose which speech is free. Well actually if you are the supreme court you do.
4) He was not advocating drug use.
5) Don't pick on the supreme court's Jesus.
6) If you give students free speech soon everyone will want it.
For those without the time to read the book, there's a documentary as well. It isn't as thorough as the book, but the visual medium adds A LOT. It is as frightening as it is infuriating, and will permanently change the way you think about education in this country.
The proprtion of black kids now attending segregated schools - that is, deeply segregated schools - is at its highest level since the death of Martin Luther King. We've gone right back.
I read his 70's work when I was a teenager - it had quite an
effect on me. Glad to know he is still fighting the war.
When I moved to DC, I lived in an area near Howard. All of my (mostly) black neighbors were wealthier, more educated, more sophisticated than me and represented a wide spectrum of political and personal opinions. I feel like this helped me move even further from the white racist past of my ancestors.
Now: In Richmond, VA I'm being dragged back by the ghosts of Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis. The pregentrified area here is just awful. It's completely lawless...it's some other shit like I've never seen. My immediate neighbors are great (a retired Dr, police, teachers, nurses); however, we are surrounded by a neglected fringe. I see these folks everyday. Always young black men (15-30)--pants down to their knees, doing nothing (not even grinding), throwing trash on the ground--perpetuating almost every negative stereotype. It really challenges me. When I tell white people in Richmond where I live, they have no idea where it is. It's some place that doesn't even exist to them. When I tell black people where I live, they frown or laugh and ask me what the fuck is wrong with me. I'm also wondering what is wrong?
The whole thing just bums me out. I think about the quality of schools that will be there for my children in the near future and it just freaks me out. And the continuing reality of racial inequity and a total lack of understanding of the condition of poverty in America really has me wondering what it will take to wake people up.
COSIGN. When I moved out here five years ago I was blown away. This place is seriously fucked up.
We were looking for daycare for the lil man. Trying to find something with some diversity (in RVA that means black AND white) was impossible. Funny thing is that the daycare by my house costs the same as the ones out in Joe&Suzyville