If you want to hear and judge for yourself... I got a grip of mixes on my site. http://www.djferrari.com
So here's the thing: I checked out Ferrari's "Funky Penguin" mix and I think it demonstrates the challenges in mixing records from a genre that was not designed with mixing in mind (unlike hip-hop, techno, disco, etc.) This is not meant as a cap on Ferrari because I think he does a really skillful job of staying in synch for multiple bars but in many cases, I found the overlay of two funk songs to be jarring and discordant. The instrumentation clashed, sometimes songs were conspiciously out of key with one another and songs often times seemed in competition rather than smoothly giving way to the next. I don't think that's a limitation of Ferrari's mixing skills - I think that's the limitation in trying to blend-mix funk songs: it's a rare case when you can effectively overlap two of them and have everything sound compatible with each other. Even the most gutbucket funk tunes have some level of basic arrangement operating and the introduction of a whole 'nother set of instruments, rhythms and melodies rarely is going to sound like it's natural. Maybe if you don't know the songs at all...it'd help but even at the parts in the mix where I didn't instantly recognize the new song being mixed in, it was still obvious that the mix began because things suddenly felt chaotic and/or awkward.
Just .02
Thanks for listening and the in depth critique. I'll agree that there is a serious challenge in mixing these records, but it's a challenge I'd like to take on and have been since I got into this. I've been a lot better in avoiding clashing mixes than I was when I first started out, but there's definitely still room for improvement. The Funky Penguin mix was thrown together pretty quickly as a last minute hand out at a show so there's definitely parts that I cringe at when listening.
At any rate, I still think it's possible and I'm still going to apply mixing techniques to my mixes. I just don't want any down time while I'm DJing
I think it's possible...I just think it's much, much harder to pull off and requires very specific mixes between songs where all those elements happen to line up with one another (which are almost surely going to be accidents). In contrast, house records were MEANT to be mixed with other house records and the song structure and arrangements lend themselves to stacking two, three songs on top of one another yet making it sound perfectly natural. It's just tough to do that with funk or rock records where, unless you have a clean break or instrumental bridge that's super stripped down, you're bound to run into problems of incompatibility even in cases where songs "sound" similar. Like, you can't take any Jackson 5 song and just throw in a new guitar and bassline on top of that and expect it to sound right.
Here's a mix I did back in 2000. Some funk tunes mixed together... with some other stuff. It IS hard to mix funk, tempos can be all over the place. Pre-planning is a must and BPMing doesn't hurt either.
I think that's the limitation in trying to blend-mix funk songs: it's a rare case when you can effectively overlap two of them and have everything sound compatible with each other. Even the most gutbucket funk tunes have some level of basic arrangement operating and the introduction of a whole 'nother set of instruments, rhythms and melodies rarely is going to sound like it's natural.
you don't need to ride out a mix for the full 4 bars...and certainly not 8 in order to "mix" 2 funk songs and have it sound smooth. there are probably dozens of ways to get it done and i'm not trying to sound like an expert either. here are just a few:
1- match beats and bars but keep the fader off and do the on-the-fly pitch adjustments in your headphones and then drop mix it. no clashing sounds and its still "mixed in".
2- match beats and bars and scratch in the last snare or the first downbeat. same effect as above.
3- match beats and bars but keep the volume fader and eqs at less than full blast on the incoming track as you work out the on-the-fly pitch adjustments (which to me, if i know the bpms are fluctuating, is a lot of pushing and pulling back on the record). when its at a steady spot (you gotta know your records) bring the volume and eqs in accordingly and drop the other record out.
Yeah, actually the excessive graemlin action was for his previous mixes. Funky Penguin is my least fave for the reasons mentioned above. Funk sounds best when not blended, but with new song cut in on beat- no overlapping.
I was actually referring to the older mixes, on the eclectic tip. I doubt the Funky Penguin recieved the type of critique from the crowd at your company party that we're giving it here!
I think that's the limitation in trying to blend-mix funk songs: it's a rare case when you can effectively overlap two of them and have everything sound compatible with each other. Even the most gutbucket funk tunes have some level of basic arrangement operating and the introduction of a whole 'nother set of instruments, rhythms and melodies rarely is going to sound like it's natural.
you don't need to ride out a mix for the full 4 bars...and certainly not 8 in order to "mix" 2 funk songs and have it sound smooth. there are probably dozens of ways to get it done and i'm not trying to sound like an expert either. here are just a few:
1- match beats and bars but keep the fader off and do the on-the-fly pitch adjustments in your headphones and then drop mix it. no clashing sounds and its still "mixed in".
2- match beats and bars and scratch in the last snare or the first downbeat. same effect as above.
3- match beats and bars but keep the volume fader and eqs at less than full blast on the incoming track as you work out the on-the-fly pitch adjustments (which to me, if i know the bpms are fluctuating, is a lot of pushing and pulling back on the record). when its at a steady spot (you gotta know your records) bring the volume and eqs in accordingly and drop the other record out.
Oh, no doubt - I think this is the kind of funk mixing that most of us are used to and, in my opinion, sounds really good. But the original challenge posed in this thread was: "can you mix funk records like techno records" and that, to me, means multi-bar blend-mixing where BOTH songs are overlapping at relatively equal levels (even if you decide to, say, EQ out the low end on one record).
Yeah, actually the excessive graemlin action was for his previous mixes. Funky Penguin is my least fave for the reasons mentioned above. Funk sounds best when not blended, but with new song cut in on beat- no overlapping.
I was actually referring to the older mixes, on the eclectic tip. I doubt the Funky Penguin recieved the type of critique from the crowd at your company party that we're giving it here!
It's ironic... everyone that's not a DJ tells me the Funky Penguin is the best they've heard from me. If I had done a mix with the same songs, but had them just playing one after another, I know they wouldn't say the same thing. Non DJs are expecting mixing more than DJs! Their ears are less trained and just want to hear one song into another without any downtime. That and they've never heard any of those tracks. They're standard issue to us, but not them. Apparently this mix even gets played at Santa Clara University parties according to my roommate's 20 year old girlfriend
It's ironic... everyone that's not a DJ tells me the Funky Penguin is the best they've heard from me. If I had done a mix with the same songs, but had them just playing one after another, I know they wouldn't say the same thing. Non DJs are expecting mixing more than DJs! Their ears are less trained and just want to hear one song into another without any downtime. That and they've never heard any of those tracks. They're standard issue to us, but not them. Apparently this mix even gets played at Santa Clara University parties according to my roommate's 20 year old girlfriend
Oh, thanks dude. I've been trying to keep 20 year old college girls off my mind all morning. Must...not..think... these ...thoughts!!!
funk aint about that seamless shit...Id rather have my facemelted by someone like Tony Janda, or High-C unearthing the Bartells of the world, playing 2 hours worth of badass raers that are seldom, if ever heard than some dude with skills blendin' some worn out record into "Hey Joyce" or some shit...big deal.
So you don't think it's possible to have the facemelting records AND mix them? Why make such a distinction or are you that against DJing?
Well, technically and in the realm of possibilities, yes it is possible...but...why? I just dont believe that the term "DJing" necessarily means you have to blend and mix seamlessly for hours on end. A 2 hour 45 set would entail about 50 records, I personally dont want to hear 50 songs crammed together as if they are one long song...I dont want to hear certain percussive elements EQ'd out of a song because it doesnt "blend" well with the next or preceeding songs, or a great song not played because it isnt in key with the next...selection is WAY more important than skills to folks who go out to hear 60s and early 70s sounds...I find the mixing of those type of sounds tedious and unneccasary.
I have a huge amount of respect for dudes who take the technical aspect of playing funk, soul, and groove records to the next level. It's impressive and great to hear when done right.
That said I feel no impulse to do much mixing on a tape or a party where the order of the day is soul, funk, reggae, jazz... it's just not very important to the listening experience.
Guys like J-Rocc and Cosmo do a lot of technical shit and make it sound effortless... that is what it's about. The moment you sound like you're "trying" to DJ with this stuff you sound corny IMO.
any record that is made with no click track/ computer is hard to mix no matter the genre. disco and funk. the tempos are always jumping, which in turn you always have to finesse the vinyl and adjust tempo... key is a whole nother thing..then programming. i hear hip hop djs putting accapellas to beats that are click tracked and perfectly on tempo...but all out of tune...same with disco, as far as funk sets, you just need to figure out key and tempo..
finelikewine"ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
In the last mix I made, I tried to mix funk 45`s in the first 30 minutes. There is some beatmixing in it but also some cuts. It is a real puzzle to find thr fitting songs to make a coherent mix.
I think it's possible...I just think it's much, much harder to pull off and requires very specific mixes between songs where all those elements happen to line up with one another (which are almost surely going to be accidents).
I'll weigh in there. I think that really is the challenege. I mean, it;s much easier to throw in a bunch of hip-hop records into your bag before heading off to your gig and thinking "I can just mix these on the fly" than doing the same with funk records. I mena, you 'can', but if you play at a monthly funk night like I do, and youre set is 2 and a half hours, and you want to continually mix songs together, you gotta work on that shit! You do, as you say, have to have specific mixes prepared or at the very least, know your records really really well.
As much as it has been argued that techno/rave/electronic music mixing has its own challanges and can be done really well with attentiuon to detail, it has to be said that it is much easier to pull off a comparatively clean sounding techno mix than it is to do the same with funk records.
As mentioned above, DJ John Doe's Fused Funk #3 mix does the best job of this that I've heard. He carefully selected tunes that are recorded similarly and have similar instrumentation and beats and sometimes it seriously sounds like there is one band just playing right into the next song. Definitely not a mix that was "just thrown together", and it has a great effect.
if you can mix the songs, typically a short blend, sounds 100 x's better. At least drop in the next song on beat (when mixing is not possible), whatever you do just dont let the song fade out on its own and then play the next song.
selection is WAY more important than skills to folks who go out to hear 60s and early 70s sounds...I find the mixing of those type of sounds tedious and unneccasary.
Comments
Thanks for listening and the in depth critique. I'll agree that there is a serious challenge in mixing these records, but it's a challenge I'd like to take on and have been since I got into this. I've been a lot better in avoiding clashing mixes than I was when I first started out, but there's definitely still room for improvement. The Funky Penguin mix was thrown together pretty quickly as a last minute hand out at a show so there's definitely parts that I cringe at when listening.
At any rate, I still think it's possible and I'm still going to apply mixing techniques to my mixes. I just don't want any down time while I'm DJing
I think it's possible...I just think it's much, much harder to pull off and requires very specific mixes between songs where all those elements happen to line up with one another (which are almost surely going to be accidents). In contrast, house records were MEANT to be mixed with other house records and the song structure and arrangements lend themselves to stacking two, three songs on top of one another yet making it sound perfectly natural. It's just tough to do that with funk or rock records where, unless you have a clean break or instrumental bridge that's super stripped down, you're bound to run into problems of incompatibility even in cases where songs "sound" similar. Like, you can't take any Jackson 5 song and just throw in a new guitar and bassline on top of that and expect it to sound right.
It IS hard to mix funk, tempos can be all over the place. Pre-planning is a must and BPMing doesn't hurt either.
DJ Jesse DeVille - Development
you don't need to ride out a mix for the full 4 bars...and certainly not 8 in order to "mix" 2 funk songs and have it sound smooth. there are probably dozens of ways to get it done and i'm not trying to sound like an expert either. here are just a few:
1- match beats and bars but keep the fader off and do the on-the-fly pitch adjustments in your headphones and then drop mix it. no clashing sounds and its still "mixed in".
2- match beats and bars and scratch in the last snare or the first downbeat. same effect as above.
3- match beats and bars but keep the volume fader and eqs at less than full blast on the incoming track as you work out the on-the-fly pitch adjustments (which to me, if i know the bpms are fluctuating, is a lot of pushing and pulling back on the record). when its at a steady spot (you gotta know your records) bring the volume and eqs in accordingly and drop the other record out.
I was actually referring to the older mixes, on the eclectic tip. I doubt the Funky Penguin recieved the type of critique from the crowd at your company party that we're giving it here!
Oh, no doubt - I think this is the kind of funk mixing that most of us are used to and, in my opinion, sounds really good. But the original challenge posed in this thread was: "can you mix funk records like techno records" and that, to me, means multi-bar blend-mixing where BOTH songs are overlapping at relatively equal levels (even if you decide to, say, EQ out the low end on one record).
It's ironic... everyone that's not a DJ tells me the Funky Penguin is the best they've heard from me. If I had done a mix with the same songs, but had them just playing one after another, I know they wouldn't say the same thing. Non DJs are expecting mixing more than DJs! Their ears are less trained and just want to hear one song into another without any downtime. That and they've never heard any of those tracks. They're standard issue to us, but not them. Apparently this mix even gets played at Santa Clara University parties according to my roommate's 20 year old girlfriend
Wait till you hear something from Phoreyz!
- spidey
Oh, thanks dude. I've been trying to keep 20 year old college girls off my mind all morning. Must...not..think... these ...thoughts!!!
Well, technically and in the realm of possibilities, yes it is possible...but...why? I just dont believe that the term "DJing" necessarily means you have to blend and mix seamlessly for hours on end. A 2 hour 45 set would entail about 50 records, I personally dont want to hear 50 songs crammed together as if they are one long song...I dont want to hear certain percussive elements EQ'd out of a song because it doesnt "blend" well with the next or preceeding songs, or a great song not played because it isnt in key with the next...selection is WAY more important than skills to folks who go out to hear 60s and early 70s sounds...I find the mixing of those type of sounds tedious and unneccasary.
That said I feel no impulse to do much mixing on a tape or a party where the order of the day is soul, funk, reggae, jazz... it's just not very important to the listening experience.
Guys like J-Rocc and Cosmo do a lot of technical shit and make it sound effortless... that is what it's about. The moment you sound like you're "trying" to DJ with this stuff you sound corny IMO.
the tempos are always jumping, which in turn you always have to finesse the vinyl and adjust tempo...
key is a whole nother thing..then programming.
i hear hip hop djs putting accapellas to beats that are click tracked and perfectly on tempo...but all out of tune...same with disco, as far as funk sets, you just need to figure out key and tempo..
There is some beatmixing in it but also some cuts.
It is a real puzzle to find thr fitting songs to make a coherent mix.
http://www.0921.org/download/music/fine_like_wine_mixed_by_Gerald_Wildenauer.rar
I'll weigh in there. I think that really is the challenege. I mean, it;s much easier to throw in a bunch of hip-hop records into your bag before heading off to your gig and thinking "I can just mix these on the fly" than doing the same with funk records. I mena, you 'can', but if you play at a monthly funk night like I do, and youre set is 2 and a half hours, and you want to continually mix songs together, you gotta work on that shit! You do, as you say, have to have specific mixes prepared or at the very least, know your records really really well.
As much as it has been argued that techno/rave/electronic music mixing has its own challanges and can be done really well with attentiuon to detail, it has to be said that it is much easier to pull off a comparatively clean sounding techno mix than it is to do the same with funk records.
I agree.
happy b-day bro.
Boba's Mexican cousin?
Sorry, I had to do it.
ooh dont forget jan solo