Thoughts on Music Conservatories

kitchenknight

(this is going to be cross posted, so deal.)I just worked a concert for the local college music conservatory. And, I have some strong thoughts on this experience that I feel I must share. And if you went to a conservatory, and think I'm wrong, then go right ahead and tell me.But, I think music conservatory's fucking suck. Jesus. I just sat through a 2.5 hour show of seniors performing before graduation, and these fucking people had less soul and talent that most contestants on American Idol. Seriously. This was watching people who had sat through 4 years of karaoke classes. What a fucking suckhole...I'm a skeptic. Fine. But, I don't believe anyone who is going to tell me there is one right way to make music and perform. So much of what I, and it seems, we, love is music that is made in the mistakes. Songs that are not afraid to teeter on that edge, and fail. Because, the musicians and songwriters know enough about their craft and skills that they know that not every time is going to result in a plunge off the cliff--- sometimes, they hit that note, and just fucking soar.So, while a conservatory degree will probably result in some very 'nice,' and sterile music, music isn't about nice or sterile. I want trans-fucking-sendent, I want moving, I want emotion, I want dirty, I want humanity, i want soul. there. I said my piece.

OrangeYoghurt

I thought Conservatory vocalists practice on classical methods and music.
They don't do mary j. blige.
Anyway I think they suck as well. Even the more liberated classes who train in "brown voices" never can bring forth any pop talent that can compete.

But I thought quicny jones was a schooled conservatory musician was he not?

kitchenknight

I don't doubt there is some talent that cycles through them and ends up in my crates. In my CD book, I've got Gillian Welch, and I think she was a Conservatory grad...

But, my overall point is: you can't teach soul. and I don't mean soul the genre; i mean feeling, connection, etc.

Mad Drama Teacher

Speaking as a classically trained musician, there are definitely some soulless musicians I've had to play with over the years. On the other end of the spectrum, however, are musicians that could learn a thing or two about restraint.

Were these performance majors?

faux_rillz

I don't believe anyone who is going to tell me there is one right way to make music and perform.

Now why would you go and pick a fight with bobo like that?

doughboy

I want moving, I want emotion, I want dirty, I want humanity, i want soul.

Nina. Simone.

Classically trained.

Miles. Davis.

Foramlly trained at Berklee.

These guys are the epitome of moving, emotionly, dirty, humanity.


Come on - expecting everyone attending a music con to have the goods is like asking all those in an off season training camp to make the grade in the NFL / NBA. It's gonna give you some skills... but's it what ya do with it, right?

I both studied and taught at a music school... and saw both sides of the argument. Some guys turned up and got bogged down in developing chops and theory - but ultimately were uninteresting in the extreme - hell a good number of the tutors were like that. Others arrived for class and you were left floored and thinking "what they hell can I teach you, you've got it...". Regardless of that the chance to spend a few years just working on your craft is pretty amazing and the exposure to new areas of music is essential.

Especially when you come into the 'real world' and there are so few opportunities to a) play whatever the hell it is you want to play and b) survive and pay the rent.

Then you end up whoring your arse in the corporate world and doing music for pure love and fun - which is exactly what I do.

4 years & masters degree a waste? Hell no.

kitchenknight

I want moving, I want emotion, I want dirty, I want humanity, i want soul.

Nina. Simone.

Classically trained.

Miles. Davis.

Foramlly trained at Berklee.

These guys are the epitome of moving, emotionly, dirty, humanity.


Come on - expecting everyone attending a music con to have the goods is like asking all those in an off season training camp to make the grade in the NFL / NBA. It's gonna give you some skills... but's it what ya do with it, right?

I both studied and taught at a music school... and saw both sides of the argument. Some guys turned up and got bogged down in developing chops and theory - but ultimately were uninteresting in the extreme - hell a good number of the tutors were like that. Others arrived for class and you were left floored and thinking "what they hell can I teach you, you've got it...". Regardless of that the chance to spend a few years just working on your craft is pretty amazing and the exposure to new areas of music is essential.

Especially when you come into the 'real world' and there are so few opportunities to a) play whatever the hell it is you want to play and b) survive and pay the rent.

Then you end up whoring your arse in the corporate world and doing music for pure love and fun - which is exactly what I do.

4 years & masters degree a waste? Hell no.

Fair enough. This is the counter point I was looking for. And, like most things in life, it says the following:

Some folks got it. Other folks, don't.

Now, for those who you said showed up and had 'it,' was a conservatory necessary to bring that out? Or, where they wasting $$$ when they could have been out on the road?

I don't ask to antagonize- I honestly want a conversation here...

deej

miles davis was at julliard

lots of incredible musicians went to conservatories. its just a place where you can focus exclusively on music. its a learning tool, nothing more. no one should expect it to be manufacturing soul.

JustAlice

But, my overall point is: you can't teach soul. and I don't mean soul the genre; i mean feeling, connection, etc.

I couldn't agree more. I've always been a little irked by people who go to college to become a poet, or go to an art school to become an artist. I feel, as with anything, you can learn a technique or a skill and be fine at it.....but if you have what it takes it will come naturally.

Some are so deprived of instinctual expression that they have to cypher it out of things they perceive as thoughtful and insightful such as art and music.

But, I dont disagree with classical training and studies.

You just got to be like the Kronos Quartet and take it beyond the realm of stagnant and boring and keep it evolving.

Cosmophonic

My main argument for classical training, is that, most times the training is meant to be a fundament the individual player can twist and turn and make their own in time. Talent can??t be learned, this is important. You CAN however teach a robot to play a symphony, but there??ll be very little soul as mentioned.

My father is a professor of music and a teacher at a conservatory, and he stresses the fact that people should never go there (or to any educational institution for that matter) to copy the teachers, but to LEARN from them, and then develop their own thing.

Thinking without learning creates onesidedness, and learning without thinking is a total disaster. Many talents need some form of guidance in order to reach the higher level, and a conservatory could vey well do that.

- J

rsmeets

i went to "music school" although it wasn't a conservatory- it still had it's positives and negatives.. school is a place where people can teach you about theory and about how music works.. you can think of it as where miles would have understood something like, "hey, if i write a melody where all of the melody notes are extensions of the chord, then it's going to sound more interesting.." but, sadly.. many teachers are very underqualified- and in general there is a trend in jazz of too much restraint- they teach you to play in restraunts where you won't disturb the dinner guests (seriously). especially people coming from these classes.. these kids have probably spent four years reading charts (and they're probably pretty good at that), but probably didn't spend the time to actually listen to and seek out music- as strange as it sounds.. there is so much emphasis on practice, and not on listening (AND EAR TRAINING- some of these people can't even play in tune).. as a result, you get people who don't understand the lineage of folk, blues, jazz, soul etc.. but they all have that paper so that they can teach at some other university... sad but it's how it works.. if you go, you just have to understand what you are getting into (debt). i do like how the new england conservatory is set up though.. it focuses on third stream music, so basically you go in and pick a genre or two and just study those and how they work.. it's much more independent than most schools.. it really comes down to studying with the best musicians out there.. some schools can get them, but most can't. i had to sit through a lot of those concerts too- zzzzzzzzz