Brothers got to many Real Problems to be caught up in fantasies and expensive hobbies that don't bring money in. Record collecting can be included in this.
The fact that you don't see hip-hop - with its codes of dress/fashion, reinvention of names, styles of dancing and graffiti styles - as forms of "fantasies" is really amazing. I mean, the idea of "play" is intrinsically about letting your imagination reshape your realities. To that degree, a bunch of Black and Puerto Rican guys taking on alter egos from Joseph Sadler to Grandmaster Flash or Clive Campbell to Kool Herc is ALL about fantasy life.
Hip-hop is inherently based on fantasy - both in terms of as a creative activity built around reimaginations of self, of neighborhood as well as fantasy as aspirational dreams for social mobility. What's different between dressing up as a Jedi or renting gold chains for a video shoot?
Just to add, you managed to - like many well-meaning types - completely erase the Black middle class from the equation, as if Black people are some monolithic community of desperate poor instead of what they actually are: a diverse, complex community that has millions of people living by and under the poverty line AND millions living quite comfortably in the middle to upper class. Treating all Black people as poor - so poor that they have no creative, imaginative lives no less! - is not simply inaccurate, it's completely condescending. Name one form of African American creative culture that did NOT emerge from the working or underclass?
I'm certainly not claiming "Brothers" don't have certain "Real Problems" - namely unflagging institutional racism and personal prejudice - but did you ever consider that these "Real Problems" are partially what has fueled such a vibrant, powerful and liberatory tradition from said community? One that is based on fantasies of freedom, empowerment and equality?
Sorry PS but you have yet to come close to explaining what the differences between White vs. Black fantasy life is all about. No, I'm not Black but I'm not White either. I have no vested interest in defending White geeks however, your rather narrow insistence that "fantasy" is somehow reserved only for either White folk or the middle class just makes no sense (not just to me, but apparently, no one else on the board either, including some *ahem* bonafide Black folk).
Seriously, what exactly is your argument? That there's no such thing as Black geeks? I mean, really, you believe that?
To back up Odub, I am black and have gone from being very poor to semi-middle class (still poor though)and I'm also a huge Spiderman fan. I'm not too into star wars or star trek. But Marvel has been there for me for many years. As far as black people not being into fantasy.
The fact that you don't see hip-hop - with its codes of dress/fashion, reinvention of names, styles of dancing and graffiti styles - as forms of "fantasies" is really amazing. I mean, the idea of "play" is intrinsically about letting your imagination reshape your realities. To that degree, a bunch of Black and Puerto Rican guys taking on alter egos from Joseph Sadler to Grandmaster Flash or Clive Campbell to Kool Herc is ALL about fantasy life.
Hip-hop is inherently based on fantasy - both in terms of as a creative activity built around reimaginations of self, of neighborhood as well as fantasy as aspirational dreams for social mobility. What's different between dressing up as a Jedi or renting gold chains for a video shoot?
Just to add, you managed to - like many well-meaning types - completely erase the Black middle class from the equation, as if Black people are some monolithic community of desperate poor instead of what they actually are: a diverse, complex community that has millions of people living by and under the poverty line AND millions living quite comfortably in the middle to upper class. Treating all Black people as poor - so poor that they have no creative, imaginative lives no less! - is not simply inaccurate, it's completely condescending. Name one form of African American creative culture that did NOT emerge from the working or underclass?
I'm certainly not claiming "Brothers" don't have certain "Real Problems" - namely unflagging institutional racism and personal prejudice - but did you ever consider that these "Real Problems" are partially what has fueled such a vibrant, powerful and liberatory tradition from said community? One that is based on fantasies of freedom, empowerment and equality?
Save the essays for class. I'm not talking about Hip Hop, Rock ,Funk or Whatever. You can't compare an artist rents that chain for a photo shoot to a dude who goes and camps out 2 weeks for Star Wars tickets, something that he will gain no value from. No it not the same.
And by the tone of this post , I'm guessing you're not Black, so don't talk as if you have first hand knowledge on how all Blacks live. I've lived in so called middle class Black N'hoods for years, You'd be suprized how many people are a paycheck from poverty. Don't act like you know Black folk like the back of you hand .It seems like I always get kinda stuff from White Hip Hop nerds (Jeez.... What is it). Dogs,
The role play is the same just at different frequencies.
By the way I'm a Brother who still reads comics.
As for those cats who called it "White Boy shit" probably cant read in the first place.
I liked it. I didnt like the fact that it kinda ended with everything getting wrapped up in a nice little package. I do have another gripe, but my explaination would be a spoiler for folks that havent seen it. And as far as people complaining it had to much love story in it, come on man, Spiderman is a love story whether you like it or not...all classic comic book heroes have their problems of being human as well as supernatural...Peter Parker's achillies heel is his love for MJ, it is what fuels the story...just like Batman's achillies heel is his preoccupation with revenge rather than justice...classic superhero stories are about this conflict, without this conflict you dont have a superhero story.
Sorry PS but you have yet to come close to explaining what the differences between White vs. Black fantasy life is all about.
I'd say white fantasy life is different than black fantasy life in that white people already live a real fantasy. They're at the top of the social food chain. They make all the rules & lord over everyone. That's why white fantasy is about becoming a jedi & killing space monsters and black fantasy is about living with some dignity, security, and power on earth.
Ill explain why I did not like it. Too many villAYNS. See, Spiderman 1 and 2 were good because they focues of the development of a select few. It had a nice balance. This was different, too much shit going on. 2nd reason. It failed when it tried to be deep and emotional and made spiderman looking like an emo. The movie was not worth my money. I will not see #4.
EDIT: You did make a dayum good point. I just feel that it wasn't well done. Ill be waiting for the next Dark Knight Returns. If that movie fucks up I will have my own bizzness with the director.
Sorry PS but you have yet to come close to explaining what the differences between White vs. Black fantasy life is all about.
I'd say white fantasy life is different than black fantasy life in that white people already live a real fantasy. They're at the top of the social food chain. They make all the rules & lord over everyone. That's why white fantasy is about becoming a jedi & killing space monsters and black fantasy is about living with some dignity, security, and power on earth.
Haz,
I'm not suggesting, at all, that there are NO differences in the fantasy lives of different communities - like Batmon said, "different frequencies."
But dude, I just have two words for you: AFRO FUTURISM.
Saying: Black people can get down with that space shit too, albeit in a different way, perhaps, from "Star Trek" and "Star Wars."
I thought it had some enjoyable passages but was really messed up. Poorly arranged. My main gripe with the first one was they messed with the green goblin/gwen stacy thing. It really pissed me off at the time but I'm over it now. But the venom thing has now messed with the chances of getting a faithful rendition of secret wars made into a movie. grrrr.
SPOILERS SPOILERS
What was with the painful forced physical comedy moments with JJ and the John Cleese inspired french waiter? Really unnecessary and incongruous with the movie.
Did you notice peter looked like Travis Bickle when he was getting emo before he started wearing the black suit on the regular and he looked like John Belushi when he was at his darkest hour and pulls out the black suit and the Billy Joe greenday dude when he's all superemo?
How come in American movies if the news reporter has an English accent they're supposed to be more credible or something? She sounded like Lily Allen too.
What the fuck was up with the Pulp Fiction into 9 1/2 weeks romantic interlude between Harry and Mary? Maybe Sam Raimi is just kicking the fuck back on bullshit studio money these days and just deliberately jamming the shit with guilty pleasure references, knowing that most nobody in the public who watches it will care.
But I thought they actually handled venom pretty well. But the amount of time spent on developing each villain was disproportional to the impact they had in the comic book. There were moments like the spidey parade bit where he actually acted like he did in the mcfarlane era all confident and wise cracking and shit.
Overall, barely passable, just way way too much crap in it that should have been cut. Some cool looking cga explosions and whatnot. They'll make another 17 of these things no doubt.
To back up Odub, I am black and have gone from being very poor to semi-middle class (still poor though)and I'm also a huge Spiderman fan. I'm not too into star wars or star trek. But Marvel has been there for me for many years. As far as black people not being into fantasy.
Pundit, you summed it up quite nicely. But basically, it's a movie for moviegoers - not Spiderman fans. I grew up on the comic and even though I cringed at a lot of the scenes you describe, it's still passable.
Seriously though, why couldn't the symbiot morph into clothes like it could in the comic? That's why he went with that costume instead. Why not cut, say, the waiter scene, the cooking scene, the dance scene, WHATEVER - and give the audience a plausible reason for Spidey to go with the black suit. Three seconds of swinging around, screaming "This is great!" - and we're supposed to understand that the suit makes him feel powerful.
Ah well, I feel like I'm on a Marvel forum or something. But I had high hopes, and it was by far the worst of the series. The ending saved it for me, made it a 3/5.
Seriously though, why couldn't the symbiot morph into clothes like it could in the comic? That's why he went with that costume instead. Why not cut, say, the waiter scene, the cooking scene, the dance scene, WHATEVER - and give the audience a plausible reason for Spidey to go with the black suit. Three seconds of swinging around, screaming "This is great!" - and we're supposed to understand that the suit makes him feel powerful.
Yeah, that reminds me, did the actor playing venom get his agent to put a clause in his contract where the venom suit has to peel back so you see his face whenever he talks, cos i don't remember it doing that in the books. And yeah, I thought they spent a hundred hours painfully spelling out all the subtleties of peter/mary/harry, but then like you said, 3 seconds of him swinging around going wahoo and we're supposed to know we're dealing with the lord of the rings in spiderman suit form.
It almost felt like Stan Lee's little cameo was his way of signing off on the franchise, like saying "you're a dear friend, but it's time for me to go... and spend this money, son".
it's funny how they introduced the black suit in the comic because sales were dwindling for amazing and spectacular and web of, and it ended up reviving the book, but the movie version introduced the suit on the back of the 2 highest box-offices and may well be the end of the franchise (doubtful)
But will Ari get Vince to make Aquaman 2? that's the REAL question.
Seen it. Fell asleep halfway through. But its nice movie though. Venom on the otehr hand looked kinda skinny and small. The suit could've made the reporter dude a little bigger dont ya think? That venom-laugh was cool.
And that singing of MJ in the end ofthe movie? That was so unnatural sounding. What did they do? Did they Cubase a second darker "brown voice" underneath that of Kirsten Dunst? And I still dont know what that "Ursula girl" is supposed to portrait. A shy girl who diggs peter??????? (Id do her..)
Question: Can anyone tell me how "maximum carnage" came into play? Im guessing that venom suit protected brock from dying and they just "escaped" into the shadows like in the comics? Bu where did MC came to be? Didnt spidey and venom became friends aftwerwards trying to kill Maximum Carnage?
ugh you guys were right with 3, i was wrong. it was unbearable
if you want to read my review/concession click here
What, you mean you don't think that alien parasites produce effective and enjoyable dance moves?
seriously wtf? i paid $15 to see this shit at imax too. but when i got home i leafed through old marvel universe volumes and came across this character
it's a 1200 lb bulldog with a cop moustache named Lockjaw
Sorry PS but you have yet to come close to explaining what the differences between White vs. Black fantasy life is all about.
I'd say white fantasy life is different than black fantasy life in that white people already live a real fantasy. They're at the top of the social food chain. They make all the rules & lord over everyone. That's why white fantasy is about becoming a jedi & killing space monsters and black fantasy is about living with some dignity, security, and power on earth.
ugh you guys were right with 3, i was wrong. it was unbearable
if you want to read my review/concession click here
"Venom seems so dated like when you played tony hawk and rage against the machine was blaring as the soundtrack and you thought you were so awesome. maybe it???s a 20-something thing."
ugh you guys were right with 3, i was wrong. it was unbearable
if you want to read my review/concession click here
You see, Ms Edith. This is what you get for arguing with me. I've been reading this comic semi-religiously since the 3rd grade. This movie was exploitation trash through and through, I kept waiting for Kevin Sorbo to make a cameo. Also, don't blame the character Venom. The whole symbiote war series is amazing.
i hope raimi learns from his mistakes for the next one because i believe he has the smarts to deliver quality big budget entertainment that isn’t on some crappy waterworld kevin costner in waterproof leather underpants bullshit. even more smarts and sense then his fellow successful splatter-comedy classmate peter jackson with lord of the rings. i thought spider-man 1 & 2 were pretty good and that his creativity and wit still shined through all that cgi stuff.
it's a 1200 lb bulldog with a cop moustache named Lockjaw
Damn, I remember this from jr high school. I never saw the original comics but this was in some monstrous compendium of marvel characters... haha. They must have really been running dry of ideas.
So I watched the movie again today (stolen copy) when I was done my studying. Just to try to make myself like it because I really like Spiderman, I really want to like this movie. I hated it even more, it was so hard to watch. See now I saw it a second time here is why I hate it. Too much shit going on. Spiderman 1 and 2 was good on account of it focused on a select few, therefore allowed the script to be more concentrated. This felt rushed. It is sad that SR tried to make him all evil when he ended up looking like the emo kids outside of my schools. Venom didnt bring it. Too much CGI. Lame script. Lame acting. Poor casting for Venom. Failed at the love concept.
And so on and so on. The movie was shit. Seriously, how can it be THIS BAD?? Like its like he just wanted to piss off the audience. Conclusion. Sam is a douchebag to the extreme.
Comments
The fact that you don't see hip-hop - with its codes of dress/fashion, reinvention of names, styles of dancing and graffiti styles - as forms of "fantasies" is really amazing. I mean, the idea of "play" is intrinsically about letting your imagination reshape your realities. To that degree, a bunch of Black and Puerto Rican guys taking on alter egos from Joseph Sadler to Grandmaster Flash or Clive Campbell to Kool Herc is ALL about fantasy life.
Hip-hop is inherently based on fantasy - both in terms of as a creative activity built around reimaginations of self, of neighborhood as well as fantasy as aspirational dreams for social mobility. What's different between dressing up as a Jedi or renting gold chains for a video shoot?
Just to add, you managed to - like many well-meaning types - completely erase the Black middle class from the equation, as if Black people are some monolithic community of desperate poor instead of what they actually are: a diverse, complex community that has millions of people living by and under the poverty line AND millions living quite comfortably in the middle to upper class. Treating all Black people as poor - so poor that they have no creative, imaginative lives no less! - is not simply inaccurate, it's completely condescending. Name one form of African American creative culture that did NOT emerge from the working or underclass?
I'm certainly not claiming "Brothers" don't have certain "Real Problems" - namely unflagging institutional racism and personal prejudice - but did you ever consider that these "Real Problems" are partially what has fueled such a vibrant, powerful and liberatory tradition from said community? One that is based on fantasies of freedom, empowerment and equality?
Seriously, what exactly is your argument? That there's no such thing as Black geeks? I mean, really, you believe that?
Explain:
Alexandre dumas
Sun Ra
etc..
- spidey
Save the essays for class. I'm not talking about Hip Hop, Rock ,Funk or Whatever. You can't compare an artist rents that chain for a photo shoot to a dude who goes and camps out 2 weeks for Star Wars tickets, something that he will gain no value from. No it not the same.
And by the tone of this post , I'm guessing you're not Black, so don't talk as if you have first hand knowledge on how all Blacks live. I've lived in so called middle class Black N'hoods for years, You'd be suprized how many people are a paycheck from poverty. Don't act like you know Black folk like the back of you hand .It seems like I always get kinda stuff from White Hip Hop nerds (Jeez.... What is it).
Dogs,
The role play is the same just at different frequencies.
By the way I'm a Brother who still reads comics.
As for those cats who called it "White Boy shit" probably cant read in the first place.
Not even with the aid of pictures, I'd bet.
DONT GET ME STARTED!!!
Just like Revenge Of The Sith and Matrix 3, SpiderMan has morphed into a Love Story w/ some incredible action.
I'd say white fantasy life is different than black fantasy life in that white people already live a real fantasy. They're at the top of the social food chain. They make all the rules & lord over everyone. That's why white fantasy is about becoming a jedi & killing space monsters and black fantasy is about living with some dignity, security, and power on earth.
EDIT: You did make a dayum good point. I just feel that it wasn't well done. Ill be waiting for the next Dark Knight Returns. If that movie fucks up I will have my own bizzness with the director.
Haz,
I'm not suggesting, at all, that there are NO differences in the fantasy lives of different communities - like Batmon said, "different frequencies."
But dude, I just have two words for you: AFRO FUTURISM.
Saying: Black people can get down with that space shit too, albeit in a different way, perhaps, from "Star Trek" and "Star Wars."
SPOILERS SPOILERS
What was with the painful forced physical comedy moments with JJ and the John Cleese inspired french waiter? Really unnecessary and incongruous with the movie.
Did you notice peter looked like Travis Bickle when he was getting emo before he started wearing the black suit on the regular and he looked like John Belushi when he was at his darkest hour and pulls out the black suit and the Billy Joe greenday dude when he's all superemo?
How come in American movies if the news reporter has an English accent they're supposed to be more credible or something? She sounded like Lily Allen too.
What the fuck was up with the Pulp Fiction into 9 1/2 weeks romantic interlude between Harry and Mary? Maybe Sam Raimi is just kicking the fuck back on bullshit studio money these days and just deliberately jamming the shit with guilty pleasure references, knowing that most nobody in the public who watches it will care.
But I thought they actually handled venom pretty well. But the amount of time spent on developing each villain was disproportional to the impact they had in the comic book. There were moments like the spidey parade bit where he actually acted like he did in the mcfarlane era all confident and wise cracking and shit.
Overall, barely passable, just way way too much crap in it that should have been cut. Some cool looking cga explosions and whatnot. They'll make another 17 of these things no doubt.
and...
Seriously though, why couldn't the symbiot morph into clothes like it could in the comic? That's why he went with that costume instead. Why not cut, say, the waiter scene, the cooking scene, the dance scene, WHATEVER - and give the audience a plausible reason for Spidey to go with the black suit. Three seconds of swinging around, screaming "This is great!" - and we're supposed to understand that the suit makes him feel powerful.
Ah well, I feel like I'm on a Marvel forum or something. But I had high hopes, and it was by far the worst of the series. The ending saved it for me, made it a 3/5.
Yeah, that reminds me, did the actor playing venom get his agent to put a clause in his contract where the venom suit has to peel back so you see his face whenever he talks, cos i don't remember it doing that in the books. And yeah, I thought they spent a hundred hours painfully spelling out all the subtleties of peter/mary/harry, but then like you said, 3 seconds of him swinging around going wahoo and we're supposed to know we're dealing with the lord of the rings in spiderman suit form.
It almost felt like Stan Lee's little cameo was his way of signing off on the franchise, like saying "you're a dear friend, but it's time for me to go... and spend this money, son".
it's funny how they introduced the black suit in the comic because sales were dwindling for amazing and spectacular and web of, and it ended up reviving the book, but the movie version introduced the suit on the back of the 2 highest box-offices and may well be the end of the franchise (doubtful)
But will Ari get Vince to make Aquaman 2? that's the REAL question.
But its nice movie though. Venom on the otehr hand looked kinda skinny and small.
The suit could've made the reporter dude a little bigger dont ya think?
That venom-laugh was cool.
And that singing of MJ in the end ofthe movie? That was so unnatural sounding.
What did they do? Did they Cubase a second darker "brown voice" underneath that
of Kirsten Dunst?
And I still dont know what that "Ursula girl" is supposed to portrait.
A shy girl who diggs peter??????? (Id do her..)
Question: Can anyone tell me how "maximum carnage" came into play?
Im guessing that venom suit protected brock from dying and they just "escaped" into the shadows like in the comics?
Bu where did MC came to be?
Didnt spidey and venom became friends aftwerwards trying to kill Maximum Carnage?
if you want to read my review/concession click here
i disagree 100%. it crossed the line sap-wise
What, you mean you don't think that alien parasites produce effective and enjoyable dance moves?
seriously wtf? i paid $15 to see this shit at imax too. but when i got home i leafed through old marvel universe volumes and came across this character
it's a 1200 lb bulldog with a cop moustache named Lockjaw
the evening wasn't a complete bust
You're being sarcastic here, right?
And romantic comedies are geared toward which demographic?
"Save That Wedding Ring" - is for 16 year old boys....
"Aunt May, what's Love?"....hell to the no.
"Venom seems so dated like when you played tony hawk and rage against the machine was blaring as the soundtrack and you thought you were so awesome. maybe it???s a 20-something thing."
You see, Ms Edith. This is what you get for arguing with me. I've been reading this comic semi-religiously since the 3rd grade. This movie was exploitation trash through and through, I kept waiting for Kevin Sorbo to make a cameo. Also, don't blame the character Venom. The whole symbiote war series is amazing.
Dude, WTF?
- spidey
Damn, I remember this from jr high school. I never saw the original comics but this was in some monstrous compendium of marvel characters... haha. They must have really been running dry of ideas.
Too much shit going on. Spiderman 1 and 2 was good on account of it focused on a select few, therefore allowed the script to be more concentrated.
This felt rushed.
It is sad that SR tried to make him all evil when he ended up looking like the emo kids outside of my schools.
Venom didnt bring it.
Too much CGI.
Lame script.
Lame acting.
Poor casting for Venom.
Failed at the love concept.
And so on and so on. The movie was shit. Seriously, how can it be THIS BAD?? Like its like he just wanted to piss off the audience. Conclusion. Sam is a douchebag to the extreme.