Okay... well, judging by that answer (as well as a few of the others) I don't know if folls are getting what I meant by transcending. Maybe you are, though.
Naw, I think you're right Phil... I don't think anyone I know (including myself) has heard an Atmosphere record so they couldn't have reached that level...
A sure sign of transcendence: he changed all instances of "my people"/"black people" to "all people" in the version that provided the soundtrack to that Nike commercial.
Okay... well, judging by that answer (as well as a few of the others) I don't know if folls are getting what I meant by transcending. Maybe you are, though.
Naw, I think you're right Phil... I don't think anyone I know (including myself) has heard an Atmosphere record so they couldn't have reached that level...
Yeah, I'm not sure if "transcended" is what we're talking about here; more like "never intersected with at all"...
Okay... well, judging by that answer (as well as a few of the others) I don't know if folls are getting what I meant by transcending.
to be honest, i'm not sure what you mean by "transcending." i'll re-read this thread and see if i can better understand the question. if we're talking musical innovations, eminem and atmosphere have hardly made an impact. but if we're talking about pop culture impact, and the mainstream perception of hip hop, those two are at the center of a lot of debate.
where does reggaeton fit into all this? the first time america has accepted hip hop from another country (to some degree, at least.)
if we're talking musical innovations, eminem and atmosphere have hardly made an impact. but if we're talking about pop culture impact, and the mainstream perception of hip hop, those two are at the center of a lot of debate.
Eminem, yes.
Atmosphere, no.
Again, hardly anybody has ever even heard of/heard them... like DigDug, I don't believe I've ever heard them, and the only people I know who have done so would be nerds people I know via this board.
"Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's high DJ's spinnin' are savin' my mind Flash is fast, Flash is cool Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do And you don't stop, sure shot"...
Toe to toe Dancing very slow Barely breathing Almost comatose Wall to wall People hypnotised And they're stepping lightly Hang each night in Rapture
Back to back Sacrailiac Spineless movement And a wild attack
Face to face Sadly solitude And it's finger popping Twenty-four hour shopping in Rapture
Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's high DJ's spinnin' are savin' my mind Flash is fast, Flash is cool Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do And you don't stop, sure shot Go out to the parking lot And you get in your car and you drive real far And you drive all night and then you see a light And it comes right down and lands on the ground And out comes a man from Mars And you try to run but he's got a gun And he shoots you dead and he eats your head And then you're in the man from Mars You go out at night, eatin' cars You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too Mercurys and Subarus And you don't stop, you keep on eatin' cars Then, when there's no more cars You go out at night and eat up bars where the people meet Face to face, dance cheek to cheek One to one, man to man Dance toe to toe Don't move to slow, 'cause the man from Mars Is through with cars, he's eatin' bars Yeah, wall to wall, door to door, hall to hall He's gonna eat 'em all Rapture, be pure Take a tour, through the sewer Don't strain your brain, paint a train You'll be singin' in the rain I said don't stop, do punk rock
Well now you see what you wanna be Just have your party on TV 'Cause the man from Mars won't eat up bars when the TV's on And now he's gone back up to space Where he won't have a hassle with the human race And you hip-hop, and you don't stop Just blast off, sure shot 'Cause the man from Mars stopped eatin' cars and eatin' bars And now he only eats guitars, get up!
I know everybody hates on this, the Paul Nice mix put it to shame, bla bla bla. But I think it ultimately worked as a vehicle for Jay-Z to reach people who normally wouldn't check for him: Old men showing up at record stores asking about The Blueprint, teenage girls in Weezer t-shirts reciting "Justify my Thug", everyone and their mother trying to do their own mashups. It might turn your stomach but I think it's pretty damn transcending, and a testament to Jay's hustle.
But I think it ultimately worked as a vehicle for Jay-Z to reach people who normally wouldn't check for him: Old men showing up at record stores asking about The Blueprint, teenage girls in Weezer t-shirts reciting "Justify my Thug", everyone and their mother trying to do their own mashups.
It might turn your stomach but I think it's pretty damn transcending, and a testament to Jay's hustle.
Agreed that it introduced him to a whole new audience and that he was all of a sudden taken seriously by people who ridiculed him before - but I don't think Jay had anything to do with this release, I'm puzzled why you give him credit for it
I thought it was rather unfortunate only because this is a garbage version of a good album, and fans of GREY didn't seem to have much/any interest in picking up BLACK
I know everybody hates on this, the Paul Nice mix put it to shame, bla bla bla. But I think it ultimately worked as a vehicle for Jay-Z to reach people who normally wouldn't check for him: Old men showing up at record stores asking about The Blueprint, teenage girls in Weezer t-shirts reciting "Justify my Thug", everyone and their mother trying to do their own mashups. It might turn your stomach but I think it's pretty damn transcending, and a testament to Jay's hustle.
Jay was already reaching a far broader audience than the one that sweats "mashups," though.
That album may have caused a few racist pricks to finally pay attention to rap's most important voice of the last ten years, but so what? That hardly strikes me as very transcendent.
But I think it ultimately worked as a vehicle for Jay-Z to reach people who normally wouldn't check for him: Old men showing up at record stores asking about The Blueprint, teenage girls in Weezer t-shirts reciting "Justify my Thug", everyone and their mother trying to do their own mashups. It might turn your stomach but I think it's pretty damn transcending, and a testament to Jay's hustle.
Agreed that it introduced him to a whole new audience and that he was all of a sudden taken seriously by people who ridiculed him before - but I don't think Jay had anything to do with this release, I'm puzzle why you give him credit for it
I thought it was rather unfortunate only because this is a garbage version of a good album, and fans of GREY didn't seem to have much/any interest in picking up BLACK
I know he didn't directly have anything to do with it, I'm saying the fact that he released the acapellas and was able to grab people's attention on the strength of his lyrics - and I'll be honest, I enjoyed some of the instrumentals on the Grey Album (and if someone on here had done it, I'm sure it would have garnered more than a few 's - but yeah the actual sound quality is doodoo) - but that album wouldn't have held so many people's attention if Jay wasn't as talented as he is.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey Phill,
Here are some rap records that I think transcended hip-hop:
-"Self-Destruction"-Stop the Violence Movement.
-"One Love"-Whodini.
-"Umi Says"-Mos Def.
-"Can You Feel It"-Original Concept.
-"Rebirth of Slick"-Digable Planets.
-I cosign on a number of the previous ones such as P.E., Beastie Boys, and other landmark groups (not the crossover hit makers).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Yo, Bro Stacks-
Can you give reasons why you feel that these records transcend Hip Hop? Just curious. Those are some interesting choices.
Hey Phill,
I'll try to explain my reasoning for my choices below:
1. "Self-Destruction"-Stop the Violence Movement. -This song had a strong following in hip-hop, but had a big impact on humanism through music that spread beyond rap and became well-known to the larger public.
2. "One Love"-Whodini. -I've heard this song played in some many different circles, in addition to its presence in movies and TV outside of rap (I'm blanking right now on to what shows, movies in particular).
3. "Umi Says"-Mos Def. -Bad choice, I recant this one.
4. "Can You Feel It"-Original Concept. -I take this one back too, upon further thought.
5. "Rebirth of Slick"-Digable Planets. -This song seemed to be on everyone's radar, and became major commercial and movie fodder as well. My parents know this song, along with what seemed to be many non-rap peoples. To me, this song popularized rap to the common cultural in the 90's.
Aight Big Phil, i think i understand what you mean by "transcending"....so here are a few that come to my mind... am i on the right track or waaaay off..??
digital underground - humpty dance naughty by nature - hip hop hooray and opp salt n pepa - push it biz markie - just a friend
Jay was already reaching a far broader audience than the one that sweats "mashups," though.
I'm not talking about the audience that sweats "mashups", I'm talking about the audience that sweats "Weezer" and "Yellow Submarine".
That album may have caused a few racist pricks to finally pay attention to rap's most important voice of the last ten years, but so what? That hardly strikes me as very transcendent.
Heh, yeah, but at this point, hiphop itself has become bizarrely transcendent. Racist pricks are greeting each other with "Whatup dog?" and blasting Eminem from their pickup while shouting racial epithets at the black family across the way.. I see this kinda shit all the time back in NJ, the disconnect is surreal.
Jay was already reaching a far broader audience than the one that sweats "mashups," though.
I'm not talking about the audience that sweats "mashups", I'm talking about the audience that sweats "Weezer" and "Yellow Submarine".
As far as I know, the audience that is impressed by "mashups" (or who refers to them as such, rather than merely as "blends") is the audience that sweats Weezer.
As for the audience that sweats "Yellow Submarine," well, I think my dad is pretty representative of that, and I haven't exactly noticed him listening to any more Jay than he did prior to the release of The Grey Album. Older Beatles fans are not even aware of The Grey Album for the most part, and if they were, I can't imagine that many of them would actually be interested in hearing it, much less making the jump to listening to Jay-Z. What you're saying just doesn't make sense.
while not a rap record persay, i am going to throw Blondie - rapture into the ring. Only because of the "rap" in it and the way that Grandmaster Flash broke it down. I think it both opened new listeners to Rap when it dropped and also made inroads into the Rap listening audience at the time and widened Blondie's audience.
Whoomp there it is! I hate this song, but almost every stadium plays it at half time, the end of the seventh inning stretch, injury time out etc.. Everyone knows it. They play this song at nascar. It has replaced that Gary Glitter rock n roll song, we will rock you, sha na na na hey hey hey goodbye. It is all those sports anthems rolled up into one. What's bigger than Whoomp (or whoot) there it is? Who let the dogs out? Can't Touch This can't touch whoomp there it is. White moms of three in elastic waistband sweat pants do the cabbage patch to this song. Barely clad erotic dancers spin seductively around a pole to its braying rhythms. I would wager that insurgents in Afghanistan probably quote the chorus when their shoulder mounted rocket explodes an approaching jeep. It has been written into countless forgettable sit comes. The simple and repeated monotony of the chorus brings a smile to children of all ages, races, creeds and cultures. It is a must have to any DJ working a wedding, bar mitzvah, sweet sixteen etc.. I wish it was never committed to acetate. I wish its damage could be undone. But we live in a world shaped by its power.
Whoomp there it is! I hate this song, but almost every stadium plays it at half time, the end of the seventh inning stretch, injury time out etc.. Everyone knows it. They play this song at nascar. It has replaced that Gary Glitter rock n roll song, we will rock you, sha na na na hey hey hey goodbye. It is all those sports anthems rolled up into one. What's bigger than Whoomp (or whoot) there it is? Who let the dogs out? Can't Touch This can't touch whoomp there it is. White moms of three in elastic waistband sweat pants do the cabbage patch to this song. Barely clad erotic dancers spin seductively around a pole to its braying rhythms. I would wager that insurgents in Afghanistan probably quote the chorus when their shoulder mounted rocket explodes an approaching jeep. It has been written into countless forgettable sit comes. The simple and repeated monotony of the chorus brings a smile to children of all ages, races, creeds and cultures. It is a must have to any DJ working a wedding, bar mitzvah, sweet sixteen etc.. I wish it was never committed to acetate. I wish its damage could be undone. But we live in a world shaped by its power.
excuse me sonny...
know where i can find some BOOOOTY?[/b]
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
By "transcended" I meant songs that went beyond the realm of just being a hot song for hip hop heads to bounce to. Stuff that had an effect on music as a whole, stuff that "changed the game", stuff that was relevant to the larger society outside of the hip hop culture in one way or another. "Rappers Delight" is an obvious one- it introduced rap to the world and I would guess that if Sugar Hill had kept accurate books it would be the highest selling rap single ever. "The Message" because it was the first true look at the realities of ghetto life ever put on wax (there were, of course, other songs in other genres before this that dealt with ghetto life, but it's almost impossible for a singer give as much explicit detail as a rapper can) and it inspired a lot of music that came after it in hip hop as well as other forms of music. "Planet Rock" gave birth to electro, house, techno, etc. etc. NWA's "F--- tha Police" (the whole "Straight Out Of Compton" lp but that song in particular) has influenced so much of today's music... after that record it was pretty much open season to say whatever the f--- you want to, any WAY you f---in' want to! When I hear Gwen Stefani cursin' all over the radio and my little 6 year old girl singing "Oooo, this my shh, this my shh", in someway I feel compelled to thank NWA for this change in what is now considered to be acceptable.
So, basically, that's what I was talking about with this thread. But feel free to throw your own thoughts out there, it's all good. It's all about conversatin' on it, mane!
Pretty much anything by PE (or the Bomb Squad for that matter) would fall into the "rap records that transcended hip-hop" category, I reckon. You can hear elements of that dense, chaotic sound they developed in all kinds of places nowadays, from Slipknot through to the Chemical Brothers, and it's been there a while. They're not solely responsible for the way hard rock sounds nowadays, obviously, but they undoubtedly had a major effect, and one they're rarely given credit for, although you might not want to take credit for Slipknot. PE indirectly gave rock, if not a shot in the arm, then definitely a few fresh sonic options.
Jay was already reaching a far broader audience than the one that sweats "mashups," though.
I'm not talking about the audience that sweats "mashups", I'm talking about the audience that sweats "Weezer" and "Yellow Submarine".
As far as I know, the audience that is impressed by "mashups" (or who refers to them as such, rather than merely as "blands") is the audience that sweats Weezer.
As for the audience that sweats "Yellow Submarine," well, I think my dad is pretty representative of that, and I haven't exactly noticed him listening to any more Jay than he did prior to the release of The Grey Album. Older Beatles fans are not even aware of The Grey Album for the most part, and if they were, I can't imagine that many of them would actually be interested in hearing it, much less making the jump to listening to Jay-Z. What you're saying just doesn't make sense.
OK dude, you win. I'm just going off the few blogs and message boards I read around the time of its release. One I remember stumbling upon was a college-girl who thought Jay's lyrics were all about "pimps and hoes and stuff", listened primarily to rock, and downloaded the Grey Album because she wanted to see what all the hype was about. She ended up falling in love with his lyrics because for the first time she actually LISTENED to them. The other was from somebody who worked in a record store who said he had seen several older gentlemen come in asking about Jay-Z albums. Hardly a scientific sample, but I still find it interesting that it had that effect.
Eminem's mark has been made on pop culture; Atmosphere's has been made on the indie-rock/college underground. They get college radio spins, sell records, and fill venues. To all those reactionary kids who distrust music they feel is "corporate," Atmosphere is an alternative with indie credibilty. None of my friends are fans, but i think we've all at least heard them. The point i tried to make is that there are plenty of people who turn on their tv or radio, hear and think, "rap is crap." then they hear slug, a guy who looks like them and talks about his problems with girls (just like their favorite rock bands), and think "this must be real rap; i like this!"
Comments
I was a little iffy on that one too. I thought of some others:
-"The Breaks"-Kurtis Blow.
-"Heartbeat"-The Treacherous Three.
-"Looking for the Perfect Beat"-Afrika Bambaata and the Soulsonic Force (maybe).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Naw, I think you're right Phil... I don't think anyone I know (including myself) has heard an Atmosphere record so they couldn't have reached that level...
Yo, Bro Stacks-
Can you give reasons why you feel that these records transcend Hip Hop? Just curious. Those are some interesting choices.
A sure sign of transcendence: he changed all instances of "my people"/"black people" to "all people" in the version that provided the soundtrack to that Nike commercial.
Yeah, I'm not sure if "transcended" is what we're talking about here; more like "never intersected with at all"...
And:
to be honest, i'm not sure what you mean by "transcending." i'll re-read this thread and see if i can better understand the question. if we're talking musical innovations, eminem and atmosphere have hardly made an impact. but if we're talking about pop culture impact, and the mainstream perception of hip hop, those two are at the center of a lot of debate.
where does reggaeton fit into all this? the first time america has accepted hip hop from another country (to some degree, at least.)
Eminem, yes.
Atmosphere, no.
Again, hardly anybody has ever even heard of/heard them... like DigDug, I don't believe I've ever heard them, and the only people I know who have done so would be
nerdspeople I know via this board."Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's high
DJ's spinnin' are savin' my mind
Flash is fast, Flash is cool
Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do
And you don't stop, sure shot"...
Toe to toe
Dancing very slow
Barely breathing
Almost comatose
Wall to wall
People hypnotised
And they're stepping lightly
Hang each night in Rapture
Back to back
Sacrailiac
Spineless movement
And a wild attack
Face to face
Sadly solitude
And it's finger popping
Twenty-four hour shopping in Rapture
Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's high
DJ's spinnin' are savin' my mind
Flash is fast, Flash is cool
Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do
And you don't stop, sure shot
Go out to the parking lot
And you get in your car and you drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and lands on the ground
And out comes a man from Mars
And you try to run but he's got a gun
And he shoots you dead and he eats your head
And then you're in the man from Mars
You go out at night, eatin' cars
You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too
Mercurys and Subarus
And you don't stop, you keep on eatin' cars
Then, when there's no more cars
You go out at night and eat up bars where the people meet
Face to face, dance cheek to cheek
One to one, man to man
Dance toe to toe
Don't move to slow, 'cause the man from Mars
Is through with cars, he's eatin' bars
Yeah, wall to wall, door to door, hall to hall
He's gonna eat 'em all
Rapture, be pure
Take a tour, through the sewer
Don't strain your brain, paint a train
You'll be singin' in the rain
I said don't stop, do punk rock
Well now you see what you wanna be
Just have your party on TV
'Cause the man from Mars won't eat up bars when the TV's on
And now he's gone back up to space
Where he won't have a hassle with the human race
And you hip-hop, and you don't stop
Just blast off, sure shot
'Cause the man from Mars stopped eatin' cars and eatin' bars
And now he only eats guitars, get up!
I know everybody hates on this, the Paul Nice mix put it to shame, bla bla bla. But I think it ultimately worked as a vehicle for Jay-Z to reach people who normally wouldn't check for him: Old men showing up at record stores asking about The Blueprint, teenage girls in Weezer t-shirts reciting "Justify my Thug", everyone and their mother trying to do their own mashups.
It might turn your stomach but I think it's pretty damn transcending, and a testament to Jay's hustle.
Agreed that it introduced him to a whole new audience and that he was all of a sudden taken seriously by people who ridiculed him before - but I don't think Jay had anything to do with this release, I'm puzzled why you give him credit for it
I thought it was rather unfortunate only because this is a garbage version of a good album, and fans of GREY didn't seem to have much/any interest in picking up BLACK
thats a really good one - everybody knew this tune, even if they didn't know anything about rap music...
Jay was already reaching a far broader audience than the one that sweats "mashups," though.
That album may have caused a few racist pricks to finally pay attention to rap's most important voice of the last ten years, but so what? That hardly strikes me as very transcendent.
I know he didn't directly have anything to do with it, I'm saying the fact that he released the acapellas and was able to grab people's attention on the strength of his lyrics - and I'll be honest, I enjoyed some of the instrumentals on the Grey Album (and if someone on here had done it, I'm sure it would have garnered more than a few
Hey Phill,
I'll try to explain my reasoning for my choices below:
1. "Self-Destruction"-Stop the Violence Movement.
-This song had a strong following in hip-hop, but had a big impact on humanism through music that spread beyond rap and became well-known to the larger public.
2. "One Love"-Whodini.
-I've heard this song played in some many different circles, in addition to its presence in movies and TV outside of rap (I'm blanking right now on to what shows, movies in particular).
3. "Umi Says"-Mos Def.
-Bad choice, I recant this one.
4. "Can You Feel It"-Original Concept.
-I take this one back too, upon further thought.
5. "Rebirth of Slick"-Digable Planets.
-This song seemed to be on everyone's radar, and became major commercial and movie fodder as well. My parents know this song, along with what seemed to be many non-rap peoples. To me, this song popularized rap to the common cultural in the 90's.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
digital underground - humpty dance
naughty by nature - hip hop hooray and opp
salt n pepa - push it
biz markie - just a friend
Book
I'm not talking about the audience that sweats "mashups", I'm talking about the audience that sweats "Weezer" and "Yellow Submarine".
Heh, yeah, but at this point, hiphop itself has become bizarrely transcendent. Racist pricks are greeting each other with "Whatup dog?" and blasting Eminem from their pickup while shouting racial epithets at the black family across the way.. I see this kinda shit all the time back in NJ, the disconnect is surreal.
As far as I know, the audience that is impressed by "mashups" (or who refers to them as such, rather than merely as "blends") is the audience that sweats Weezer.
As for the audience that sweats "Yellow Submarine," well, I think my dad is pretty representative of that, and I haven't exactly noticed him listening to any more Jay than he did prior to the release of The Grey Album. Older Beatles fans are not even aware of The Grey Album for the most part, and if they were, I can't imagine that many of them would actually be interested in hearing it, much less making the jump to listening to Jay-Z. What you're saying just doesn't make sense.
I would wager that insurgents in Afghanistan probably quote the chorus when their shoulder mounted rocket explodes an approaching jeep. It has been written into countless forgettable sit comes. The simple and repeated monotony of the chorus brings a smile to children of all ages, races, creeds and cultures. It is a must have to any DJ working a wedding, bar mitzvah, sweet sixteen etc.. I wish it was never committed to acetate. I wish its damage could be undone. But we live in a world shaped by its power.
What kind of scrip clubs are you going to, man?
excuse me sonny...
know where i can find some BOOOOTY?[/b]
Pretty much anything by PE (or the Bomb Squad for that matter) would fall into the "rap records that transcended hip-hop" category, I reckon. You can hear elements of that dense, chaotic sound they developed in all kinds of places nowadays, from Slipknot through to the Chemical Brothers, and it's been there a while. They're not solely responsible for the way hard rock sounds nowadays, obviously, but they undoubtedly had a major effect, and one they're rarely given credit for, although you might not want to take credit for Slipknot. PE indirectly gave rock, if not a shot in the arm, then definitely a few fresh sonic options.
Yo, man! Yo! Yo!
Fuck Cinderella, Fuck Bon Jovi and Motherfuck Prince
This is RAP!![/b]
LP's from this man changed alot of things.
Yo yo, man, whassup, man?
Whassup man, you sayin' Prince? Say Prince?
It's Schoolly D., man, we rap!
Code Money man, so whassup man?
[Man, let them know what time it is.]
Microphone living is a thing of the past
and all you long haired faggots can kiss my ass.
Started out rhymin' with DJ Lynn,
you fucked it all up when you let Michael in.
I'd rather be a day in land of the dog
then with some long haired tutti frutti running a mock.
Because rock and roll is all illusion,
comes to no basic conclusion.
Rap like jazz is not all fusion,
DJ, 1200's you know he's using.
I don't.
I don't.
Looking at my Gucci if you looking at yours,
five two point size in my court of force.
Hang out all night, keep girls real tight,
sippin' coqui 900, make me feel allright.
Met my main man Ski, looking for a bike,
till I get on the mic, make everything right.
Girl in my face, boy giving me static,
sat by my side, 38 automatic.
B-boy stands, she lies on a beat,
hang downtown on a market street.
So when the B-boys comin', we're comin' hard,
so all you long haired freaks better be on guard.
All you rock and roll lovers, we're knocking you out,
because that is what rap's all about.
I don't.
I don't.
Say it loud: "I love rap and I'm proud!"
Say it loud: "I love rap and I'm proud!"
Say it loud: "I love rap and I'm proud!"
OK dude, you win. I'm just going off the few blogs and message boards I read around the time of its release. One I remember stumbling upon was a college-girl who thought Jay's lyrics were all about "pimps and hoes and stuff", listened primarily to rock, and downloaded the Grey Album because she wanted to see what all the hype was about. She ended up falling in love with his lyrics because for the first time she actually LISTENED to them. The other was from somebody who worked in a record store who said he had seen several older gentlemen come in asking about Jay-Z albums. Hardly a scientific sample, but I still find it interesting that it had that effect.
Eminem's mark has been made on pop culture; Atmosphere's has been made on the indie-rock/college underground. They get college radio spins, sell records, and fill venues. To all those reactionary kids who distrust music they feel is "corporate," Atmosphere is an alternative with indie credibilty. None of my friends are fans, but i think we've all at least heard them. The point i tried to make is that there are plenty of people who turn on their tv or radio, hear