Real v. Real #2058960
BigB
30 Posts
Moreso than other music boards I check, this one seems to endlessly rehash the commercial/popular vs. authentic/"real" thing over and over and over again.What's hot in the abstract "street" or "club" vs. what's "real"OK, I use quotes 'cause it all seems like a big deception.. c'mon it's all artifice and contrived - use this type of sound for sad emotions, that type for anger.. get some dusty 70's loops and low bitrate samples for realness and authenticity.. and so on.Look, on one hand the patronizing drivel that populates the airwaves pretends to be radical on the surface while really just merely reinforcing the materialism, violence, misogyny, and nihilism that are shot through mainstream society... these subcultures are just miniature replicas of mainstream society that pretend to offer a real alternative while offering just more of the same. Justifying it with sales and dollar signs is just using the system that that it supports, as a yardstick for itself - invalid.Is it really hard to see 50 Cent and Jay-Z as household names that Mommy and Daddy like too... um, not really!!If it's where they came from rather than what they're doing that is more important, then I can see how this might seem subversive. But that is only a facade, a surface of radical like wearing a Che t-shirt... paying lip service to revolution while just doing more to deepen the divide between the haves and the have-nots. Here, try this: We don't need all this stuff.. in fact it drives us into debt and enslaves us to credit card companies and banks. Checking account zeros and fancy cars are not measurements of productive members of society. This stuff is fun, but get your life on track and be good to your friends and families before you even care about a Gulfstream jet. If you are ruining your lives and others on the way to achieving that material wealth, then it is not worth it. That might be the overwhelming example presented to you by capitalism and TV, but if we follow that example we are only continuing the situation that oppresses the poor of the United States and the pre-industrialized nations throughout the world that we take advantage of in order to live in luxury. Have you ever seen poverty in South American countries firsthand? I have. It is nothing like poverty in the United States.. we're talking shanty towns of scrap building supplies, dirt floors, no electricity or running water - in fact, unsafe water. And here we are drinking bottled water from France and Fiji. Disconnected from the world.... and On the other hand, I'm bored to tears with the idea that one particular style is more authentic than another.. maybe at its inception it was interesting and more personal, but then it becomes a template for endless mimicry. Over and over again I'm told that Truth and Goodness and authenticity is coming back through this guy or that guy.. and this almost becomes the biggest message moreso than any other actual content: I'm bringing back that realness that you lack.Again, a facade - the content just evokes what was considered "real" in the past rather than offering anything new or substantial to say - how many times do we need the "I Used to Love H.E.R." concept recycled?This is not just about Hip Hop music - it's the same in all genres - look at the Garage revivalism of The Strokes and White Stripes vs. calculatedly "rock" production of a Kelly Clarkson or Avril Lavigne, for example...but then most people when faced with a real choice for freedom in life or in art will choose the familiar and conservative route.Well anyways.. that's it. Hip Hop just seems to make authenticity a more explicit concern than other musics, though they all deal with it to some degree.It's fun... but it's all fake. Like wrestling. I'll let you get back to symbolic debates on the merits of one person's depiction of "authenticity" vs. another's... that stuff will always be entertaining, I have to admit - but it's just another distraction.. and it is definitely more 
than anything else.
than anything else.
Comments
I think everyone understands what you're saying. These are concerns that face all of us, sure....
BTW, are you in college?
If you are, read some Byron!
Or Pushkin's Eugene Onegin. That dude was gangsta.
The immediate interest here in my personal life (college education, race) neatly plays into my view of "authenticity" (thanks for illustrating, dudes).
How about if I invent a persona to make my words appear more valid?
I thought a second about filling in the blanks for you, but I'd rather not make this personal... that'd be too easy. Isn't that what makes the Strut go round... one guy says something is great, the other dismisses the opinion based on sociocultural background, then another says album sales trump all.
Honesty not Authenticity. That's all I want from life and art... and dammit, there's not nearly enough!
All I'm saying is that if we continue to settle for this type of stuff from our political leaders and from our art, we will get more of the same.
Why do you think we're in Iraq now? Apathy. Why do you think radio sucks? Apathy.
But actually.. everything looks better when I'm indifferent, so why even bother talking about any of this, right?
Oooops, as you were, gentlemen....
Who's the King of the South: Lil' Wayne or TI?
???
No.
Don't bother.
Well Mr. Faux... I've been awaiting your presence.
Do you think the message of money for its own sake is a more important contribution to the world than art that pushes the arbitrary boundaries of what is acceptable in a given culture?
Your comments in general seem to say so.
Yes and yes.. and I'm currently at work on Diddy's next album as well as the upcoming X-Clan comeback.
Fear and arrogance, not apathy.
Because it's all owned by Clear Channel!
80% of commercial radio has sucked for the last 30 years or so!
IMO 90% of PUBLIC radio sucks too! I think the medium is great, but the sensibilities of the folks running it are mostly lame and have been for a long time. And I actually like the populist leanings of commercial radio wheras you seem to postulate that if something appeals to a mass market it MUST suck. I don't agree with the assumptions you take to be fact.
as you shouldn't... they were generalizations to make a point, but that's the trees for the forest: We are embroiled in Iraq, and radio is mostly controlled by large private interests spinning the same few songs over and over again, only differing by format.
My point had little to do with your backround. It had more to do with information that is readily & easily available to you. "materialism, violence, misogyny, and nihilism" have been the stuff of great literature, poetry, theater, etc...for, well, since we've had art to critique. Germans 200 years ago were freaked out when kids read "The Sorrows Of Young Werther". They were afraid the youth would imitate that crazy guy & kill themselves. Byron was supposed to breed thrill seeking nihilists. Think of the creations of Lermontov, Pushkin or Dostoyevesky. Homer wrote some of the coldest shit ever. I think you're asking a question that has more to do with human nature through the eons than T.I, Crack rap, Iraq.
Looks like you did, A*am!
peace
h
Hmm.. interesting how you use an ASSUMPTION to try and characterize me (which is false, for the record: I enjoy listening to commercial radio in strict moderation according to my beliefs
It's easier to dismiss arguments by discrediting the messenger rather than the message. Y'know... the old chestnuts "doesn't support the troops".. Swiftboat ads and such.
but like I said, with the lack of interest in this stuff I'll leave y'all to debating Jay-Z's willingness to prostitute his "art" (d'oh...who woulda known?.. but I do own and enjoy Jay-Z albums: Black Album, Blueprint, Reasonable Doubt (are those the "good" ones or am I just too white again?), so again, don't try and use weak internet character assasination tactics).
sure.. and it's funny that you mention the history of literature, as I am an autodidact with little knowledge of specific lines of thinking... that I've reached similar conclusions and have been receptive to certain ideas has more to do with my specific life experience than anything else, but again, I don't want to get personal.
ummm.. not me.
practice pseudo-academia in their hip hop threads?
Call it "Dangerous Minds" or something like that?
Look dudes, we can understand why you are taking Sociology 101 as
an elective towards your BA in Liberal Arts...but do you really have
to do your homework on Soul Strut? About RAP MUSIC no less??
ha, are you stealing lines from the magic 8 ball????
so you think its silly to debate the authenticity of rappers considering the poverty of third world countries, yet find it newsworthy that the same songs are consistently played on commercial radio...as if this is something new and/or somehow important to society.
if you wanna talk about how corporate conglomerates like Fox and Clearchannel have taken over talk radio so they can voice their own agenda...i'm with you. but, if your calling people out (on a music message board) for talking about the authenticity of musicians...as opposed to the "bigger picture" of broadening hot 97's playlist....
Why do that when it already exists?
Can I say this one?
You sound ass-hurt!
YOU SOUND WHITE.
Well yes, I should hope I do "sound" white. My blood is red... like yours I would think.
You sound a bit turquoise to me.
just setting you up for another cute joke... hey, I'll play the straight man and you play the funny man, howsabout that?
here we go:
Where are the philosphical arguments you usually like to use to justify your opinions?
Aren't they the only opinions that matter... after all you've got millions of consumers to back you up most of the time.