VOTING

hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
edited November 2006 in Strut Central
I have voted in every election (major and minor) for the last 11 years. I think I'm going to stop now.
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  • Big_ChanBig_Chan 5,088 Posts
    Not good. ALWAYS VOTE!!!!!!!!!

  • Vote or DIE!

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    i have never voted

  • Jeff, you really ought to vote this time. If for no other reason than there's some really bad propositions on the ballot in California.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    I have voted in every election (major and minor) for the last 11 years. I think I'm going to stop now.

    People have died for your right to vote. Use it.

  • d_wordd_word 666 Posts
    lol -

    VOTE or DIDDY will kill you.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    Give me some hard proof that my vote matters rather than this weak guilt bullshit.

    I used to think it was my duty to vote, but now I honestly don't believe that we would even be allowed to vote on anything, or vote for anyone who could actually enact change. I have spent all these years voting for people I don't really like just to not give my vote to someone I like even less. What kind of choice is that?

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Give me some hard proof that my vote matters rather than this weak guilt bullshit.

    I used to think it was my duty to vote, but now I honestly don't believe that we would even be allowed to vote on anything, or vote for anyone who could actually enact change. I have spent all these years voting for people I don't really like just to not give my vote to someone I like even less. What kind of choice is that?

    It is a messed up choice. I have voted for the guy I like before. Especialy in primaries.

    Do you believe in community?
    Do you believe in America?
    Do you believe in Democracy?
    Do you believe that the future could be better than today?

    Some of your votes count more than others. Do you think the last 2 guys who didn't win who were running for president would have done a better job? If you lived in Ohio or FL your vote could have been huge.

    Do you inform yourself about school boards, district judges and the county council. It is possible to find people who are only running to do good things, who's views agree with yours and have a chance in winning in these races. It is possible for these people to enact change. Happens all the time.

    So be a part of your community, take part in American democracy and do what you can to make tomorrow better than today.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    Do you believe in community?
    Do you believe in America?
    Do you believe in Democracy?
    Do you believe that the future could be better than today?

    Some of your votes count more than others. Do you think the last 2 guys who didn't win who were running for president would have done a better job? If you lived in Ohio or FL your vote could have been huge.

    Do you inform yourself about school boards, district judges and the county council. It is possible to find people who are only running to do good things, who's views agree with yours and have a chance in winning in these races. It is possible for these people to enact change. Happens all the time.

    So be a part of your community, take part in American democracy and do what you can to make tomorrow better than today.

    I would very much like to drape myself in the American flag and think about what great minds founded America and feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but at the end of the day I believe our "democracy" is and has been open to the highest bidder for a very long time now. I believe people are greedy, I believe America will continue to become fast food strip mall hell, and I believe we will continue to be sold on ideas that keep us pacified and consuming at our own expense. And mostly I believe that we will continue to be comfortably doomed for as long as chaos can be kept in check. If voting makes you feel better then I say knock yourself out. I'll be getting off at this stop though.

    PS: I'm a white man. No one has died for my right to vote in a good long while.

  • cpeetzcpeetz 2,112 Posts
    Give me some hard proof that my vote matters rather than this weak guilt bullshit.

    I used to think it was my duty to vote, but now I honestly don't believe that we would even be allowed to vote on anything, or vote for anyone who could actually enact change. I have spent all these years voting for people I don't really like just to not give my vote to someone I like even less. What kind of choice is that?

    It is a messed up choice. I have voted for the guy I like before. Especialy in primaries.

    Do you believe in community?
    Do you believe in America?
    Do you believe in Democracy?
    Do you believe that the future could be better than today?

    Some of your votes count more than others. Do you think the last 2 guys who didn't win who were running for president would have done a better job? If you lived in Ohio or FL your vote could have been huge.

    Do you inform yourself about school boards, district judges and the county council. It is possible to find people who are only running to do good things, who's views agree with yours and have a chance in winning in these races. It is possible for these people to enact change. Happens all the time.

    So be a part of your community, take part in American democracy and do what you can to make tomorrow better than today.

    Preach on Brotha Wolf! Preach On!
    He's right as rain!
    Not that kinda right...
    The real right, as in corectamundo!

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Do you believe in community?
    Do you believe in America?
    Do you believe in Democracy?
    Do you believe that the future could be better than today?

    Some of your votes count more than others. Do you think the last 2 guys who didn't win who were running for president would have done a better job? If you lived in Ohio or FL your vote could have been huge.

    Do you inform yourself about school boards, district judges and the county council. It is possible to find people who are only running to do good things, who's views agree with yours and have a chance in winning in these races. It is possible for these people to enact change. Happens all the time.

    So be a part of your community, take part in American democracy and do what you can to make tomorrow better than today.

    I would very much like to drape myself in the American flag and think about what great minds founded America and feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but at the end of the day I believe our "democracy" is and has been open to the highest bidder for a very long time now. I believe people are greedy, I believe America will continue to become fast food strip mall hell, and I believe we will continue to be sold on ideas that keep us pacified and consuming at our own expense. And mostly I believe that we will continue to be comfortably doomed for as long as chaos can be kept in check. If voting makes you feel better then I say knock yourself out. I'll be getting off at this stop though.

    PS: I'm a white man. No one has died for my right to vote in a good long while.

    They wont give me a voice

    I know; I wont vote, that will teach them

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    Dan, I like you, think you are a smart guy, and agree with you politically. I'm honestly not looking to fight with you on this. But do you honestly believe things are going to improve in this country? Not whether they could improve, but whether they actually will? I live in a state where Arnold the Terminator is going to be "re-elected" as our fucking governor. This will happen regardless of how I feel or what I do. I have voted for Presidents that probably won the last two elections. Did that do any good?

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    'Crink: Your votes in local elections mean a lot, and the choices are most likely not as stinky as you make them out to be. Sure, vote against Arnold - he deserves it. He'll still win, but putting your opinion on record is significant.

    Voter apathy among young folks and the non-wealthy basically IS the problem: as in, if all who could vote did, things would be working a lot differently both locally and nationally (and thereby internationally). If you think silencing yourself to the leadership is constructive (or some type of backwards 'protest') I think you should seriously reconsider your decision.

    I implore you, Crink, to not become the 'disaffected' statistic: they influence the course of our country (and therefore the world) as much if not more than the evangelicals and the wealthy just by NOT expressing themselves.

  • CosmoCosmo 9,767 Posts



  • i understand what you are saying, crink. i've never had a lower view of politics in this country. it is really a pathetic state right now.

    that said...if it really can't get any worse...what is there to lose? i'm gonna drag my ass out to vote on tuesday like i always do. i'm not gonna like it, and i'm not gonna wear the 'i voted today,' sticker, which always meant a lot to me, remembering it on my dad's lapel growing up. i'm not gonna be proud of our political process this tuesday.

    but, i'm gonna vote so i can feel better four years from now. and remember; if you don't vote, you can't bitch.

  • LordNOLordNO 202 Posts

    HCrink-

    Unfortunately politics is always a business of choosing the lesser evil. It will always be that way. Choosing the lesser evil is important, don't let idealism rob you of the pragmatic value of choosing the lesser evil. Bush has helped me to realize this, who knows what Gore would've been as president- probably nothing special, but imo Bush has been catastrophic. Yes the American Democratic machine is flawed, corrupt, but votes still count, and there's a big difference between bad and worse.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    i understand what you are saying, crink. i've never had a lower view of politics in this country. it is really a pathetic state right now.

    that said...if it really can't get any worse...what is there to lose? i'm gonna drag my ass out to vote on tuesday like i always do. i'm not gonna like it, and i'm not gonna wear the 'i voted today,' sticker, which always meant a lot to me, remembering it on my dad's lapel growing up. i'm not gonna be proud of our political process this tuesday.

    but, i'm gonna vote so i can feel better four years from now. and remember; if you don't vote, you can't bitch.

    This is where I've been for the last several years now.

    And for those of you who think local elections are free of political trickery, check this out... one of the last local elections where I live was to keep Sonoma County CA GE free. To outlaw genetically modified agriculture. There was pretty massive local support for this. there are a lot of crazed hippies here who will drink nothing but the morning dew and eat nothing but hemp harvested by their own hands. It seemed like a shoe-in. Well, it probably would have been if Monsanto hadn't poured ungodly sums into the coffers of bogus organizations trying to scare farmers. It failed by 10%. If agri-business can buy their way in here I think it's safe to say that with enough money someone can and will buy every election big or small that they deem important enough. Think on that when you go to vote Tues.

    If you find the game you're playing is rigged for you to lose do you keep playing?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    This coming week the Texas Governers race will have two Independents that will both get 20% of the vote or higher. I don't think anyone feels that either of these two candidates are perfect for the job nor will either win, but they are going to use their vote to let politicians know they are sick and tired of the two party bullshit. Even people as cynical as Crink understand this is a way to send a message. Vote!!

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    I will write in my vote for Dick Gregory.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts


    I vote but it doesnt really mean much in the larger scheme of things.

  • twoplytwoply 2,903 Posts


    Do you believe in community?
    Do you believe that the future could be better than today?



    This is the kind of rhetoric I'm completely sick of. These things are not soley obtainable through our current, purportedly democratic, system.

    And I omitted America and Democracy, because I believe in those only as much as I believe in Santa Claus and childbearing storks.

  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    Couple things to consider when thinking of voting:

    1) Voting is basically the ONLY way that the majority of Americans ever particpate in their government. As we have a republic and elect officials to run the government for us, this version of indirect democracy is good and bad. Most people don't have the time to run the government or be fully informed about it. At the same time because we don't many people don't care and don't know what happens. It's somebody else's problem until something goes wrong.

    2) When America started those with the right to vote were very limited. Over the years that right has expanded to everyone over 18 years old. Many people struggled and died to get this right. While the franchise has expanded, the number of people who actually vote has declined. There was a study in CA this year that said only 15% of the state's voters determine elections. This group tends to be old, retired, college educated, wealthy and white. This in a state that is 51% minority and young. Not voting empowers this small minority to have a large influence over the government at the expense of the majority.

    3) You may feel that your individual vote doesn't matter, but in the larger picture of things it actually does. Political consultants that run campaigns break down cities block by block and basically ONLY focus upon those blocks that have consistent voters. So in a way, your individual vote is actually counted as part of a larger hole, your block/community/voting district, etc.

    4) With that being said, politicians only care about those who can keep them in power and that means voters. Being a politician is a career, not some part time job. They want to get re-elected and will only pay attention to those that can get them there. While money is obviously a more important influence upon politicians, voters do count. Politicians will not fuck with Social Security because they know old people vote the most out of any age group in America and would mean political suicide. Young people on the other hand vote the least so politicians don't feel any pressure when they slash youth programs, parks, schools, etc. And those are most often some of the first things cut when budget's run into problems.

    5) Politicians also do NOT want people to vote. The majority of ads run during campaigns are negative. A recent newspaper article said around 80% of the ads being run nationally right now are negative attack ads. Politiicians will never admit this but negative ads are meant to depress voting. The more negative campaigns get the more disgusted voters become and tune out of the elections. This is done on purpose because with fewer voters it becomes easier to predict the winners. Basically, that small minority of older, wealthy white people who have voted for generations, usually for only one party, will be the ones to turn out. Again, by not voting you are giving into the politicians campaigns and empowering this small minority of voters.

    Overall I say vote. It is important and does have an impact even if you don't see it or feel it personally.

    This is coming from a 12th Grade Government teacher so I'm obviously biased.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    these points are somewhat compelling. give me a hole to punch against old white people and I'll return to my local church in a fake beard to vote twice. I still don't believe the election will turn out differently though.

    Perhaps poisoning old people is the answer?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    While money is obviously a more important influence upon politicians, voters do count.


  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Dan, I like you, think you are a smart guy, and agree with you politically. I'm honestly not looking to fight with you on this. But do you honestly believe things are going to improve in this country? Not whether they could improve, but whether they actually will? I live in a state where Arnold the Terminator is going to be "re-elected" as our fucking governor. This will happen regardless of how I feel or what I do. I have voted for Presidents that probably won the last two elections. Did that do any good?

    Arnold is not a great govenor. He is a lot better than Ronald Reagon who killed James Rector because people were trying to build a park. Before Reagon sent in the police he said "If there has to be a bloodbath, then let's get it over with"
    Will your vote change the world and make everything better tomorrow? Never. But voting has given California govenors better than Arnold in the past, and they have also given California govenors worse than Arnold. History happens on scales that are bigger than tomorrow and larger than one vote.

    There are 300 million people in this country, you have but one vote. There are some many 100s of thousands of people in your county, city, water district and you only have one vote.

    I believe that we all must do what we can to make the world a better place. Things have been better and they have been worse. They will get better, they will get worse. Your vote will make very little difference. It is just one of the many things we have to do to make the world better.

    My state senator, Avel Gordly, is a great person who I wish would run for mayor, or govenor or senator. She has made a big difference in the state capitol and is not owned by corporations. I voted for her. She would have won without my one vote, but it was still important to me to register my vote. Likewise 2 years ago we elected a school board of hardworking individuals who care and understand the problems. Our schools are better for it. They wont end the war in Iraq, but they make Portland a little better.

    Please do write in Dick Gregory, you will have made your statement. It wont make front page news, Arnold will still be elected, but it is your official statement on the subject. If that is not enough for you write a letter to your local paper telling them why you voted for Gregory. If that is not enough, get as many of your friends to vote for Gregory. To paraphrase Arlo Guthrie: If one person does it they will think he is a nut, if two people do it they will think they are both nuts, if three people do it the will think it is a conspiracy, if 50 people do it they will think it is a movement. That is what it is; the Hcrink write in Dick Gregory Movement.

  • crink, monsanto winning by ten percent is unfortunate...but is not the be all end all, even of that issue. voting is just one way to fight for change. but once you sigh in defeat and become resigned to corporate denomination is when you are truly a helpless dependent sheep. by not voting, you are in fact voting...for whoever everyone else decides to put in power.

    additionaly,if you are so fatalistic about YOUR country's political system, why dont you do something about it? a vote is the LEAST you could do. throughout history, when politics have not served the interests of the people, great men and women have worked tirelessly and given their lives to try and effect change. many failed and others succeeded. but they acted out of selflessness and concern for their families, friends, future and the greater good. if you are convinced that your vote means nothing, why dont you get out of your record den and do something more significant?? [probably because you benefit and are not greatly inconvenienced by a republican administration that reduces taxes, kills hundreds of thousands of iraqi civilians, is a terrible steward of the environment, is good for big business, probably good for stocks, keeps gas cheap, and complicates life for marginalized people.]

    voting is a small little piece of leverage that is squandered by people who are too damn comfortable (or not uncomfortable enough) to use any chance they get to make their opinion count. my 70 year old mom has been working ten hours a day for the last month talking to poorly informed, lackadaisacal, cynical and apolitical people ...trying to get them to vote on tuesday. she is not wild about bob casey, but she sees santorum on the other side of the coin. pragmatic and proactive. i admire her.

    i'm not that impressed by you.

    be well,tony from philly
    ready to get my vote on

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Someday there will be a Supreme Court that will reject the idea that $$$$ are equal to free speech. Until then here are a few things that voting has changed:

    Slavery: Lincoln was elected largely by the work of Abolitionists who pushed him to put an end to slavery.

    Environmental protections: Hearing the call of voters Nixon and congress established the EPA and banned DDT. Since then lead has been removed from gas and paint. Species have been saved. Particulate pollution has been reduced. Rivers have been cleaned.

    Social Security: The social programs we take for granted (or hate, Free Saba)were the response to an electoric that demanded a social safety net.

  • JLRJLR 3,835 Posts
    and once again hcrink is at the eye of the storm. Why is this dude still around and SABADABA got banned? Huh?

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    Why is this dude still around and SABADABA got banned? Huh?

    It's a good question.
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