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CALL ALL SP 1200 EXPERTS

HawkeyeHawkeye 896 Posts
edited September 2006 in Strut Central
I'm at a friends place right now and he got a SP 1200. We recorded the drums from the SP into a PC and there I saw the waves of the drums. I was suprised to see that the drums are compresed/limited. It would explain that all people tell the same about the SP "The drums are louder". My question now is. Does someone know about the compresion/limiting inside the SP ?? Can you change the compression/limiting datas or is it in the machine without the possibility to change the datas ???PeaceHawkeye

  Comments

  • yoigotbeatsyoigotbeats 1,667 Posts
    they're fixed and can't be changed.
  • silvertonesilvertone 765 Posts
    Actually, I was at one time trying to figure this out to write an actual SP1200 algorhythem plug in for RTAS (which didn't work). The SP used Aliasing to make the jump in bitrates, which (If I remember correctly) makes an 8-bit sampler do all the math with a 12-bit converter @ 20khz. I think the aliasing itself is interpretive, and does a lot of additive math in between samples (The aliasing is what you hear when you slow down the samples, that famous SP1200 ring sound) which is why the wavs look clipped even at lower levels, the DA itself runs quite hot, and needs to run this way to have the whole shit work propper (hows that for some science!). But yeah, I dont think it is an actual compression, so much as a combination of special math between bitrates and converters that makes the wav look like that. I think also that the illusion of "louder" comes from the fact that because the sample range is so limited (20khz) that it actually makes everything fit it a specefic audio range... and cut through everything that it sits against / work well on all speakers None of that is adjustable.

    Random nerd shit: the MPC60 and s-950 used the same kind of aliasing, except that it upsampled from the 12bit converter to 16 bit math. It has the opposite artifact, instead of bit grained ring, it has an airy quality when the sample is slowed down.
  • silvertonesilvertone 765 Posts
    (sorry dood, that shit was mad nerdy).
  • HawkeyeHawkeye 896 Posts
    (sorry dood, that shit was mad nerdy).

    No no, I like that. Is that what you KNOW or is that what you THINK ???


    I got a friend who tryes to program a software which will bring a PC to emulate a floppy disk. So that the SP will save datas on the PC instead of a floppy disk/ZIP or whatever.

    Peace
    Hawkeye
  • silvertonesilvertone 765 Posts
    Nah, this is all just what I think... as Emu were always pretty secretive about thier stuff, especially after Ensoniq bought them out, but I am positive that there is no compressors added in the chain, and that the squaring of the wavs is a byproduct of the alaising. The Emax 1 sampler gets very close to the sound of the SP, but since its closest sample rate is off by 2khz) is is very very close (same sample engine and converter, different rate). The cardreader HD idea as a transfer method is really smart. I forget the name of the software, but there is a converter that supported SP1200 files at one point, and If I recall correctly, you were able to use Midi Sample Dump as a transfer method as well (although, all said and done, you wont get the sound coming out of the of the SP converters which is the other half of the magic. I suggest just re-sampling off the SP into software with a good AD.
  • bloodcellbloodcell 208 Posts
    Nah, this is all just what I think... as Emu were always pretty secretive about thier stuff, especially after Ensoniq bought them out, but I am positive that there is no compressors added in the chain, and that the squaring of the wavs is a byproduct of the alaising. The Emax 1 sampler gets very close to the sound of the SP, but since its closest sample rate is off by 2khz) is is very very close (same sample engine and converter, different rate). The cardreader HD idea as a transfer method is really smart. I forget the name of the software, but there is a converter that supported SP1200 files at one point, and If I recall correctly, you were able to use Midi Sample Dump as a transfer method as well (although, all said and done, you wont get the sound coming out of the of the SP converters which is the other half of the magic. I suggest just re-sampling off the SP into software with a good AD.

    thats what i say, my friend and i used to fill up the SP then put the samples onto our computer in soundforge. .

    they were actually harder to work with because your not used to messing with 12bit samples. its harder to really make them clean, we actually decided that the way the SP triggered the stuff was also another unique feature of that machine.
    i have played around with battery tons just trying to emulate SP sample sounds and how they hit and trigger. if you wanna talk about it more let me know
  • kwalitykwality 620 Posts
    For all those poor producers who can't afford the real thing, here is a pretty good example in vsti form

    http://www.acquitrecords.com/SD2100.zip

    and it's vst fx brother

    http://www.acquitrecords.com/FX2100.zip

    And I'd like to hear more nerd-ery people!
  • jonnycubajonnycuba 36 Posts
    The SP1200 cuts a fair bit of 2k.... So do a cut on a narrow 'q' @ 2k & use a bit crushing plug (there is one native in logic) down to 12bits.
  • HawkeyeHawkeye 896 Posts
    Yeah EMU is very strict with keeping their stuff. I once crashed the first 14 data blocks of my harddrive where 6 years of music making where saved from my EMU 6400 Ultra.

    I got in contact with EMU in Ireland and told them and they where like "Yeah we try to help you" But after one year of contstanly confirming that they will help me but actualy doing most to nothing I gave up.

    A friend of mine tryed to help me and we came to the conclusion that I need the EOS (Emu operating system) version that I formated the harddrive with. It was the EOS that was on the 6400 Ultra when I bought it, but as always, this EOS version had bugs. So EMU constantly updated the EOS version so I did too.

    No try to get a 6 year old EOS version which had a bug

    Who saves this shit ?? No one, so I asked the Irish service dudes from EMU to give me the first EOS with the bug and he was like "Yeah, we have to look in the US if they got a old version" and blah blah blah.


    So I got a 2 MB harddrive with 6 years full of samples, does someone want to buy that ???


    When I read about all the bit and khz stuff you wrote. I got other samplers too like a Akai S612, Roland MKS 100 and a Ensonic Mirage.

    Do you know anything about those machines compared to a SP ??

    And what is with those other interesting machines like the Studio 440. I once heard the machine and thought that the 440 comes very close to the SP soundwise and has the soft buttons of the MPC.


    Peace
    Hawkeye
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