I generaly don't really like the idea of discussing the Holocaust in a forum like this. It's all too clear where it will end, comparing it with other nations genocides and atrocities. And I think that this is a very wrong thing. The Holocaust doesn't compare to anything, it was industrialised genocide on a unimaginable scale. Also the fact, that this was happening right under people's noses... everybody must have seen something, heard something: a train full of prisoners, the neighbours being arrested and led away, those camps weren't actualy easy to overlook and there was a lot of local german workers employed in them. Noone can tell me that the majority of people had no idea what was going on. Everybody claimed this after Germany had lost the war and had to answer the questions of the rest of the world but they just fucking lied! If you have a closer look at what happened with key players after the war, the picture gets even more unsettling.
To all germans who complain about the constant mentioning of the Hololocaust and think enough time has passed to again feel patriotic and proud of their country: Feel about your country any way you please, BUT:
The Holocaust will always be an issue. Not an issue of guilt since noone can really blame you for what your grandparents have done, helped to do or just kept quiet. No, but it is a historic responsibility of the german people to memorise this part of their history and educate their own and the world about what happened. And NO, there hasn't already been done enough, there can never be done enough. Even if every single german kid learns the basic facts about the Holocaust, who just as an example teaches them about how the catholic church conducted themselves during Nazi Germany? Who teaches about how the catholic church for centuries layed down the foundation of antisemitism that made this whole thing possible in the first place? There ist still a lot of work to be done and the ignorance of other nations towards their own history can never be an excuse for us Germans to "finaly get over the Holocaust".
The whole idea of these threads that say "my country can kick your country's ass" is just be an embarassment.
I know what your trying to say here. But let me just say. I am not German (I'm Canadian). I'm only of German decent. There are millions of people around the world from the same type of background. My family came to Canada around 1880. All I can say is German heritage was strong in my family up til WWII and then died after that. All the able males in our family went to fight the nazi's and when they returned home, german heritage and culture was almost totally trashed. All I want to point out is, there is thousands of years of history for the Germanic people. Most of that time, people of german decent should be proud of. History and the wrongs of the holocaust should be taught, not just to Germans, but to everyone. And not just these wrongs, but history of all wrongs. It's the only way to learn to not make the same mistakes of the past.
Not to turn this into a Holocaust-thread, but you both just nailed it right there. I just interviewed a jewish survivor about his time in hiding here in Holland for a project I'm working on, and he expressed the same sentiments. He doesnt bear a grudge against every German he meets, as he said it 'there are good and evil people in all nations'. The reason he still talks about it so openly is not that he wants to remind german people of their history, but to remind future generations of the dangers of intolerance and racism.
I think you are talking about Aal in Aspik which is eel in aspic also called a brawn. I dont know that this is a breakfast specialty in germany but I dont know where you ate breakfast in germany
The normal thing for us and most of the time unusual breakfast thing for US citizens are black or brown bread, wholewheat bread and than some cold cuts of salami and cheese. This is what we call aufschnitt and Americans have to get used to it, some people told me they are used to eat eggs and beans and bacon for breakfast in the US.
I generaly don't really like the idea of discussing the Holocaust in a forum like this. It's all too clear where it will end, comparing it with other nations genocides and atrocities. And I think that this is a very wrong thing. The Holocaust doesn't compare to anything, it was industrialised genocide on a unimaginable scale. Also the fact, that this was happening right under people's noses... everybody must have seen something, heard something: a train full of prisoners, the neighbours being arrested and led away, those camps weren't actualy easy to overlook and there was a lot of local german workers employed in them. Noone can tell me that the majority of people had no idea what was going on. Everybody claimed this after Germany had lost the war and had to answer the questions of the rest of the world but they just fucking lied! If you have a closer look at what happened with key players after the war, the picture gets even more unsettling.
To all germans who complain about the constant mentioning of the Hololocaust and think enough time has passed to again feel patriotic and proud of their country: Feel about your country any way you please, BUT:
The Holocaust will always be an issue. Not an issue of guilt since noone can really blame you for what your grandparents have done, helped to do or just kept quiet. No, but it is a historic responsibility of the german people to memorise this part of their history and educate their own and the world about what happened. And NO, there hasn't already been done enough, there can never be done enough. Even if every single german kid learns the basic facts about the Holocaust, who just as an example teaches them about how the catholic church conducted themselves during Nazi Germany? Who teaches about how the catholic church for centuries layed down the foundation of antisemitism that made this whole thing possible in the first place? There ist still a lot of work to be done and the ignorance of other nations towards their own history can never be an excuse for us Germans to "finaly get over the Holocaust".
The whole idea of these threads that say "my country can kick your country's ass" is just be an embarassment.
and for the record, my one trip to Germany was among the best trips I've taken. I stayed on the East side of Berlin and the Germans were mad cool and showed me love. plus the Germans I meet traveling are often among the coolest of the bunch. and Porsches and Beemers are sick, especially the new M6. HARDASFUCK. i don't dig on Benzs though.
Yo Amir Berlin is Saturday teh 16th and Munich is Thursday the 21st. I'll get some more info in a second.
Hi,
if you stay in kreuzberg, let me know, I'm spinning funk & soul 45's in a nice bar, free entry... It's great to have a drink before going to a club...(or when you get back)
Bohannon ain't really where it's at... Pardon the shameless self-promotion but I'm not dj-ing there anymore so I'm not really promoting myself. I only rake in the money to finance my west african record explorations... http://www.soulexplosion.de The fact that James Trouble recently called it "the best funk night on the planet, easily" shouldn't keep you from checking it out...
Hey Frank, I guess it's not a shame to promote Soulexplosion, but you have to admit, that Bohannon got a always quality line-ups! We both know about the rest of Berlin calling themselve funk & soul...So I think, Bohannon does a good job by booking only quality, and besides soulkombinat and mark the only place to go in berlin, imho!
http://www.soulexplosion.de The fact that James Trouble recently called it "the best funk night on the planet, easily" shouldn't keep you from checking it out...
sorry to hear that, Frank! Hopefully, I can go to a Soulexplosion night in October. I'm just totally surprised that those Funk nights in Stuttgart work for you. I tried to play Funk, but Stuttgart people hated it... (I'm a little dude, but still, people didn't even stay for a beer on my nights!)
It's insane, Mark pulls about 600-800 poeple there once a month, playing nothing but the toughest and hardest funk 45s known to man... no compromises.
late pass on this thread...just want to add that I agree with what has been said about the holocaust, it is not comparable and we Germans have to live with that period, there will bever be an excuse or some "it was 60 years ago shit" NEVER!!!
Just want to add that probably I got a fair amount of Germany with my family history that I want to share with you:
my granddad was fighting for the nazis in africa under rommel and he was captured and taken to Canada (he was the chief of the brigade 99, these were all comunists that got the choice "die or fight for us"...over in Canada, he got turned around and when the war was over, he was a communist (although his nazi uniform was still in his closet), one of the "redest socks"!!! my father hated him for what he was and I can't even remember him really. I was born in the east and my parents "escaped" with me (my father was declared public enemy by the state) through passive resistance in 1983. My parents were in an organization called the "white circle", they met on the market in my old hometown every saturday and formed a circle wearing white clothes. Police came and told them to leave (all people in the organization wanted to leave the country and were known to STASI)...One of the guys from the white circle had contacts to journalists from westgermany and there was a feature about this "white circle" in the main national (west) news. After this, the members of the "white circle" were taken to STASI, put under pressure, and basically my father lost everything: his job, his university status, he was not allowed to go certain places and STASI was all around us. At some point they told my father he had to leave the country but didn't tell him when. They tried to get rid of the people. This was not only due to the fact that the western journalists told the story and increased pressure on the east but also the west German government put alot of money in the east at that time through the "Strauss-SchalckGolodgowski-Connection", so the communists couldn't put too much pressure on resistance. It was all crazy, my father was always in jail with one leg. Then things moved fast. Within a week we had to leave (reached the goal). People from all over East Germany witnessed that the first people from this "white circle" were sent out of the country and tried the same. My hometown back then was a herd for resistance (Jena). It got to a point where many people from other cities moved there to protest one weekend and the Eastgerman police closed all roads that reached the inner city and put snipers on the roofs around the market and stuff. It was really dark. After we got send out, people tried it again in the same way, but were not so lucky: most of them were sent to jail for at least three years (in Bautzen, the STASIjail!) So I was really lucky to get out of their with my parents. Even years after, back in 1989, in the summer before the wall came down, we were still subject of STASI investigation. Many friends of my parents in the EAST were working for them and gave through information about us living in the west (some were threatened that "something might happen to their daughter" if not, some volunteered)....there you go, I am a true piece of German/German history...so don't get me started about this country, it is nice and all, but we have so many skeletons (sic) in the closet, it is ridiculous...and most people from the West don't know shit about the east and think they are superior and stuff, which always made me mad!! Even in school, history mostly stopped at 1945. But the east was another big story that many people don't know about...
i remember bein 6-7 (around 86) and we visited some friends of my parents in berlin, we got our first cat there and had to smuggle it over the east-west german border. we sat in the car praying that she wouldnmt meow or scream during the passin of the border. shes still with my parents (the cat) btw, we got her over safely. back then i realized how serious the east west issue really was.
one of the whitest, richest countries on earth. but OK, I guess "opression" comes in many forms.
rich?
the f*ck outta here...lol
its goin down in a blast trust me, rich was like 10 years ago...
another German specialty: worrying and complaining about everything and a pessimistic outlook in general aka German angst. one of the highest living standards, one of the richest countries aso aso aso, but quite a lot of people here think it could not get worse. wow!
Comments
Not to turn this into a Holocaust-thread, but you both just nailed it right there. I just interviewed a jewish survivor about his time in hiding here in Holland for a project I'm working on, and he expressed the same sentiments. He doesnt bear a grudge against every German he meets, as he said it 'there are good and evil people in all nations'. The reason he still talks about it so openly is not that he wants to remind german people of their history, but to remind future generations of the dangers of intolerance and racism.
The normal thing for us and most of the time unusual breakfast thing for US citizens are black or brown bread, wholewheat bread and than some cold cuts of salami and cheese. This is what we call aufschnitt and Americans have to get used to it, some people told me they are used to eat eggs and beans and bacon for breakfast in the US.
Peace
Hawkeye
L
O
L
.
start separating the Jews from the list and I imagine it does get a little shorter.
one of the whitest, richest countries on earth. but OK, I guess "opression" comes in many forms.
and for the record, my one trip to Germany was among the best trips I've taken. I stayed on the East side of Berlin and the Germans were mad cool and showed me love. plus the Germans I meet traveling are often among the coolest of the bunch. and Porsches and Beemers are sick, especially the new M6. HARDASFUCK. i don't dig on Benzs though.
Hi,
if you stay in kreuzberg, let me know, I'm spinning funk & soul 45's in a nice bar, free entry...
It's great to have a drink before going to a club...(or when you get back)
kristian
www.tourdefunk.de
Hey Frank,
I guess it's not a shame to promote Soulexplosion, but you have to admit, that Bohannon got a always quality line-ups! We both know about the rest of Berlin calling themselve funk & soul...So I think, Bohannon does a good job by booking only quality, and besides soulkombinat and mark the only place to go in berlin, imho!
Kristian
It's insane, Mark pulls about 600-800 poeple there once a month, playing nothing but the toughest and hardest funk 45s known to man... no compromises.
Just want to add that probably I got a fair amount of Germany with my family history that I want to share with you:
my granddad was fighting for the nazis in africa under rommel and he was captured and taken to Canada (he was the chief of the brigade 99, these were all comunists that got the choice "die or fight for us"...over in Canada, he got turned around and when the war was over, he was a communist (although his nazi uniform was still in his closet), one of the "redest socks"!!! my father hated him for what he was and I can't even remember him really. I was born in the east and my parents "escaped" with me (my father was declared public enemy by the state) through passive resistance in 1983. My parents were in an organization called the "white circle", they met on the market in my old hometown every saturday and formed a circle wearing white clothes. Police came and told them to leave (all people in the organization wanted to leave the country and were known to STASI)...One of the guys from the white circle had contacts to journalists from westgermany and there was a feature about this "white circle" in the main national (west) news.
After this, the members of the "white circle" were taken to STASI, put under pressure, and basically my father lost everything: his job, his university status, he was not allowed to go certain places and STASI was all around us.
At some point they told my father he had to leave the country but didn't tell him when. They tried to get rid of the people. This was not only due to the fact that the western journalists told the story and increased pressure on the east but also the west German government put alot of money in the east at that time through the "Strauss-SchalckGolodgowski-Connection", so the communists couldn't put too much pressure on resistance.
It was all crazy, my father was always in jail with one leg. Then things moved fast. Within a week we had to leave (reached the goal). People from all over East Germany witnessed that the first people from this "white circle" were sent out of the country and tried the same. My hometown back then was a herd for resistance (Jena). It got to a point where many people from other cities moved there to protest one weekend and the Eastgerman police closed all roads that reached the inner city and put snipers on the roofs around the market and stuff. It was really dark. After we got send out, people tried it again in the same way, but were not so lucky: most of them were sent to jail for at least three years (in Bautzen, the STASIjail!) So I was really lucky to get out of their with my parents.
Even years after, back in 1989, in the summer before the wall came down, we were still subject of STASI investigation. Many friends of my parents in the EAST were working for them and gave through information about us living in the west (some were threatened that "something might happen to their daughter" if not, some volunteered)....there you go, I am a true piece of German/German history...so don't get me started about this country, it is nice and all, but we have so many skeletons (sic) in the closet, it is ridiculous...and most people from the West don't know shit about the east and think they are superior and stuff, which always made me mad!! Even in school, history mostly stopped at 1945. But the east was another big story that many people don't know about...
The white circle:
rich?
the f*ck outta here...lol
its goin down in a blast trust me, rich was like 10 years ago...
another German specialty: worrying and complaining about everything and a pessimistic outlook in general aka German angst.
one of the highest living standards, one of the richest countries aso aso aso, but quite a lot of people here think it could not get worse. wow!