I'm going to go on record and say you both need your heads checked. There is no comparison based on records, championships, influence or choice in wives.
There is no comparison based on records, championships, influence[/b]
That's just absurd. We are talking about Orr, dude. "No comparison" between his infuence on the game and Gretzky's? Gretzky has the numbers and 3 more Cups - Bobby has the legend and nickname "the greatest of all time." He changed the game forever.
We're talking the difference between Babe Ruth (Gretzky) and Alex Rodriguez (Orr). Sure Orr was the first scoring defenseman. Just like AROD is the first big, homerun hitting SS that is the template now. Both might be the best to ever play their respective positions. But Gretzky nearly brought the game out of the tundra (if the powers that be hadn't blown it with strikes, etc) and into the American limelight, playing in Edmonton no less. Let's not forget that Gretzky revolutionized hockey with his behind the net game. Babe was the best player, on the best team (of his era) with the greatest stats and the most rings. So was Gretzky. 99 is the greatest of all time.
From The Great One's Wikipedia entry.
Born in Brantford, Ontario and nicknamed "The Great One," Total Hockey: The Official Encyclopedia of the NHL calls Gretzky "the greatest player of all time". [1] He is regarded as the best player of his era and has been called "the greatest hockey player ever" [2] by sportswriters, [3] [4] [5] players, [6] coaches, and fans. Along with his many awards and achievements, he is the only player to ever have his playing number, 99, officially retired across the entire National Hockey League.
Dude, never mind the fact that comparing Orr to AROD is just short of sickening - he was much more than "the first scoring defenseman." Anyway, I only really argued with your claim of Gretzky being more of an influence on the game than Orr, a statement I still say is absurd. Orr brought the game to new levels of popularity in the early 70's, and, more importantly, changed the entire way the game was played. He set scoring records AS A DEFENSEMAN. He was the most dominant player of his time by far, and the fact that he did it all from the back line is what IMO makes him greater than Gretzky, who I will take nothing away from, he was arguably the greatest forward in the history of the game.
Comparing Orr to AROD though? What an insult.
I got my own Wikipedia quote:
Besides the Stanley Cup, captured the Norris Trophy, Art Ross Trophy, Hart Trophy, and Conn Smythe Trophy in 1970, the only player in history to win four major NHL awards in one season. Awarded the Calder Memorial Trophy in 1967. Named to the NHL First All-Star Team in 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1975. Named to the Second All-Star Team in 1967. Awarded the James Norris Trophy in 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1975. As a result of Orr's influence, there was talk of creating a separate regular season award for old-style defenseman since it was presumed that the "offensive defenseman" would easily win the Norris Trophy from then on out; however Rod Langway won it twice with his traditional rearguard play. Won the Art Ross Trophy in 1970 and 1975. Awarded the Hart Memorial Trophy in 1970, 1971 and 1972. Awarded the Conn Smythe Trophy in 1970 and 1972. Stanley Cup winner in 1970 and 1972. Played in the NHL All-Star Game in 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1975. NHL Plus/Minus leader in 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1974 and 1975. Awarded the Lester B. Pearson Award in 1975. Named the Canada Cup Tournament MVP in 1976. Awarded the Lester Patrick Trophy in 1979. Received Sports Illustrated magazine's "Sportsman of the Year" award in 1970. Voted second greatest hockey player of all time by an expert committee in 1997 by The Hockey News.
Records Most points in one NHL season by a defenseman (139; 1970???71). Most assists in one NHL season by a defenseman (102; 1970???71). Highest plus/minus in one NHL season (+124; 1970-71). Tied for most assists in one NHL game by a defenseman (6; tied with Babe Pratt, Pat Stapleton, Ron Stackhouse, Paul Coffey and Gary Suter). Held record for most assists in one NHL season from 1971 to 1981 (102; broken by Wayne Gretzky). Held record for most goals in one NHL season by a defenseman from 1971 to 1986 (37 in 1971, broke own record in 1975 with 46; broken in 1986 by Paul Coffey).
Ripken (20HR, 80 RBi, .276 career avgs) is not really the same kind of offensive player that AROD (34 hr, 98rbi. .306) is. But, change the name to Ripken in my previous post and you get the same argument. Banks was freakishly powerful but not the same size or defensive player (1 gold glove) that AROD is (2 and counting). Banks played half his career at first base BTW.
Good point about Banks splitting positions, but even his SS numbers are pretty guady. Ripken's stats are dilluted a bit by his last four years; if he hadn't hung on, his RBI numbers would've been a bit closer to A-Rod's. And at 6'4" and 225lbs., he was the first big SS. They also have the same amounts of Gold Gloves.
But A-Rod's 162-game average is 44hr, 125rbi's and a .307ba--that's super
On the cycling nomination for Lance Armstong. Most sucessful Tour De France rider, yes. Greatest cyclist ever, no....although recovering from cancer to win the tour was
On the cycling nomination for Lance Armstong. Most sucessful Tour De France rider, yes. Greatest cyclist ever, no....although recovering from cancer to win the tour was
Comments
then tell your man fedor to stop ducking him!
what the hell are you talking about? he's lost decisively to Fedor 3 times! this is not a beef thread, this is appreciation. bye.
That's just absurd. We are talking about Orr, dude. "No comparison" between
his infuence on the game and Gretzky's? Gretzky has the numbers and 3 more
Cups - Bobby has the legend and nickname "the greatest of all time."
He changed the game forever.
From The Great One's Wikipedia entry.
Born in Brantford, Ontario and nicknamed "The Great One," Total Hockey: The Official Encyclopedia of the NHL calls Gretzky "the greatest player of all time". [1] He is regarded as the best player of his era and has been called "the greatest hockey player ever" [2] by sportswriters, [3] [4] [5] players, [6] coaches, and fans. Along with his many awards and achievements, he is the only player to ever have his playing number, 99, officially retired across the entire National Hockey League.
Cal Ripken and Ernie Banks preceded him, I think.
just short of sickening - he was much more than "the first scoring
defenseman." Anyway, I only really argued with your claim of Gretzky
being more of an influence on the game than Orr, a statement I still
say is absurd. Orr brought the game to new levels of popularity in
the early 70's, and, more importantly, changed the entire way the game
was played. He set scoring records AS A DEFENSEMAN. He was the most
dominant player of his time by far, and the fact that he did it all
from the back line is what IMO makes him greater than Gretzky, who
I will take nothing away from, he was arguably the greatest forward
in the history of the game.
Comparing Orr to AROD though? What an insult.
I got my own Wikipedia quote:
But A-Rod's 162-game average is 44hr, 125rbi's and a .307ba--that's super
Eddy Merckx was the greatest
i agree