What do you poptarts think of this list?

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  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts

    Big Pun? Big L maybe.

    I have no problems with Ghost, G. Rap, Scarface and Snoop.

    And where's E-40 at?

    Big Pun would shit on Snoop. Compare his verse in the remake of Deep Cover to Snoop's in the OG.


    Dude, the fact that Pun even remade a version of "Deep Cover" is pretty much an acknowledgement that Snoop was a legend. Period.

    And sorry, I can't take any argument seriously about "good MCs" when you think Guru should be on anyone's top 10 or even top 25. People love Gang Starr (as well they should) but not because Guru was blowing their lids off lyrically. That's like saying Ringo Starr must have been a Top 10 drummer of all time because the Beatles made great songs. Please.

    i never said that guru should be in the top 10.

    as far as snoop, he is definitely a legend, but as an mc...

    big pun might only be a footnote in rap history, but snoop can't hold a candle to his rapping skills.

  • JacobWizzleJacobWizzle 1,003 Posts
    TI or Ludacris should be an honorable mention if Lauryn Hill is on that list.

    Ludacris? Get serious mayne. That dude is okay at best and all of his recent songs have been TERRIBLE! If you want him on the honorable mention list we may as well add 2 Bigg MC, Hot Dog and the A.T.E.E.M., Ho Frat Ho and Paperboy.

    Son you need to stick to rap that has echo horns and scratches. Luda is a dope rapper but he makes terrible albums.

    Just for you Weezey, I will be playing rap that has echo horns and scratches all weekend. Come thru the crib if you will be in town this weekend and we can have a drink and argue about the best use of horns on the Show and A.G. "Runaway Slave" LP. I am listening to "Fat Pockets" as I type this!


    lol. I figured you were bumping a DITC live in Japan concert or something already.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    as far as snoop, he is definitely a legend, but as an mc...

    What, exactly, is he a legend for, if not as an MC?

    If you go back and listen to his full discography, he emerges as one of the most consistent rap artists ever.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    If I could erase the influence of any MC on the history of rap, Kool Keith might be it. He planted the poisonous seed of an idea that one need neither rhyme nor deliver one's words in a manner that has any relationship to the beat.

    Kool Keith = Dadaism

    He's stretched the capabilities of delivery and upped the ante w/ vocabulary. And by no means is he anywhere near Jalil(whodini) who cant catch the beat. He was totally aware of his cadences.
    I'm sorry, but I gotta rep for this cat. He's left an important stylistic blueprint on lyrical abstraction, @ a time when most dude were rappin' about the local black experience.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    If I could erase the influence of any MC on the history of rap, Kool Keith might be it. He planted the poisonous seed of an idea that one need neither rhyme nor deliver one's words in a manner that has any relationship to the beat.

    Kool Keith = Dadaism

    He's stretched the capabilities of delivery and upped the ante w/ vocabulary. And by no means is he anywhere near Jalil(whodini) who cant catch the beat. He was totally aware of his cadences.
    I'm sorry, but I gotta rep for this cat. He's left an important stylistic blueprint on lyrical abstraction, @ a time when most dude were rappin' about the local black experience.

    Aren't you French, though?

  • JacobWizzleJacobWizzle 1,003 Posts

    as far as snoop, he is definitely a legend, but as an mc...

    What, exactly, is he a legend for, if not as an MC?

    If you go back and listen to his full discography, he emerges as one of the most consistent rap artists ever.

    Put Big L, Pun, or any of these other great rappers against lazy ass Snoops catalog and they taking a L.

  • pacmanpacman 1,113 Posts
    Can't beliieve no one has mentioned Chuck D.

    Can't beliieve no one has mentioned Chuck D.

    Can't beliieve no one has mentioned Chuck D.

    Can't beliieve no one has mentioned Chuck D.

    If he's not in a top 10 list or at LEAST top 20, I'm going to war with the hatters.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Kool G. Rap, Slick Rick and Grandmaster Caz - it's tough not to have them on the list. I'd also add as honorable mentions Lord Finesse and Grand Puba, and I don't mind that Biz was brought up. Sure, Kane wrote a lot of his memorable songs but I can't imagine anybody other than Biz doing those lyrics justice. That would be 3 juice crew members, and without mention of Masta Ace...I've always liked him, but can't argue that he should be on a GOAT list.


    If the juice crew were the Chicago Bulls.....

    Kane/G.Rap = MJ/Pippen(swapeitherway)

    Biz = Kukoc

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Kool G. Rap, Slick Rick and Grandmaster Caz - it's tough not to have them on the list. I'd also add as honorable mentions Lord Finesse and Grand Puba, and I don't mind that Biz was brought up. Sure, Kane wrote a lot of his memorable songs but I can't imagine anybody other than Biz doing those lyrics justice. That would be 3 juice crew members, and without mention of Masta Ace...I've always liked him, but can't argue that he should be on a GOAT list.


    If the juice crew were the Chicago Bulls.....

    Kane/G.Rap = MJ/Pippen(swapeitherway)

    Biz = Kukoc

    Wait, does that mean Marley Marl = Phil Jackson?

    And where does Shante and Masta Ace fit?


  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    If I could erase the influence of any MC on the history of rap, Kool Keith might be it. He planted the poisonous seed of an idea that one need neither rhyme nor deliver one's words in a manner that has any relationship to the beat.

    Kool Keith = Dadaism

    He's stretched the capabilities of delivery and upped the ante w/ vocabulary. And by no means is he anywhere near Jalil(whodini) who cant catch the beat. He was totally aware of his cadences.
    I'm sorry, but I gotta rep for this cat. He's left an important stylistic blueprint on lyrical abstraction, @ a time when most dude were rappin' about the local black experience.

    Aren't you French, though?

    LOL

    C'mon Rillz,

    I understand the pandora's box the Kool Keith opened, but I cant understand your denial of his impact.
    Critical Beatdown helped separate the mainstream from the underground. CedGee's beats along w/ KK's street absurdity.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    Kool G. Rap, Slick Rick and Grandmaster Caz - it's tough not to have them on the list. I'd also add as honorable mentions Lord Finesse and Grand Puba, and I don't mind that Biz was brought up. Sure, Kane wrote a lot of his memorable songs but I can't imagine anybody other than Biz doing those lyrics justice. That would be 3 juice crew members, and without mention of Masta Ace...I've always liked him, but can't argue that he should be on a GOAT list.


    If the juice crew were the Chicago Bulls.....

    Kane/G.Rap = MJ/Pippen(swapeitherway)

    Biz = Kukoc

    Wait, does that mean Marley Marl = Phil Jackson?

    And where does Shante and Masta Ace fit?


    Masta Ace = Horace Grant

    Shante = uummmm...Juanita Jordan? I dunno, I can't come up with one for her.

  • If the juice crew were the Chicago Bulls.....

    Kane/G.Rap = MJ/Pippen(swapeitherway)

    Biz = Kukoc

    Does this mean Marley Marl = Phil Jackson?

    EDIT: Nevermind, just read Oliver's post...

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    Yeh I would definately put Chuck D up there... Not only for his delivery but for the fact he has been sampled in other rap songs. Quotables for days.

    And how the hell are they going to give Lauryn Hill an honorable mention?

    Roxanne Shante
    Queen Latifah
    MC Lyte
    Yo-Yo

    All should be WAAAAY above her as far as mentions. I would also put King Tee as an honorable mention, as he influenced alot of groups coming out of LA.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Kool G. Rap, Slick Rick and Grandmaster Caz - it's tough not to have them on the list. I'd also add as honorable mentions Lord Finesse and Grand Puba, and I don't mind that Biz was brought up. Sure, Kane wrote a lot of his memorable songs but I can't imagine anybody other than Biz doing those lyrics justice. That would be 3 juice crew members, and without mention of Masta Ace...I've always liked him, but can't argue that he should be on a GOAT list.


    If the juice crew were the Chicago Bulls.....

    Kane/G.Rap = MJ/Pippen(swapeitherway)

    Biz = Kukoc

    Wait, does that mean Marley Marl = Phil Jackson?

    And where does Shante and Masta Ace fit?


    LOL

    Masta Ace = Horace Grant
    Shante = Will Purdue....

    Craig G = Paxon/Kerr

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts


    And where does Shante and Masta Ace fit?


    BJ Armstrong/Horace Grant


    Craig G = Bill Carwright

  • HAZBEENHAZBEEN 564 Posts
    This list looks like its based on influence on a genre as much as it is lyrical ability. Those 10 dudes made rap music what it is today. Kool Keith could hold his own on the mic with a few guys on that list, but he didn't change the game with his style. If anyone of those rappers on that list hadn't exisited, rap today would not be the same.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    But really, The Bulls dynasty isnt = The Juice crew run. I was trying to place BIZ in his place compared to supaMC's.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Let's just back this up for a moment. The problem with honorable mentions is that it lets people off the hook from having to make the hard choices.

    Go back to this original list:


    10. LL Cool J
    9. Eminem
    8. Ice Cube
    7. Big Daddy Kane
    6. KRS-ONE
    5. Nas
    4. Rakim
    3. Biggie
    2. 2Pac
    1. Jay-Z

    Ok, so fine, your favorite rapper got left off. Put them back on but you gotta take someone off to do it.

    Personally, I think this is a pretty solid list (though, like many, I might quibble with the order. I'd put Rakim ahead of Biggie and move 'Pac a few positions down. I think Ice Cube, despite falling the fuck off, is a wise choice and suprisingly, I think I'd actually keep Cube up here too). I'm actually not inclined to take anyone off.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Let's just back this up for a moment. The problem with honorable mentions is that it lets people off the hook from having to make the hard choices.

    Go back to this original list:


    10. LL Cool J
    9. Eminem
    8. Ice Cube
    7. Big Daddy Kane
    6. KRS-ONE
    5. Nas
    4. Rakim
    3. Biggie
    2. 2Pac
    1. Jay-Z

    Ok, so fine, your favorite rapper got left off. Put them back on but you gotta take someone off to do it.

    Personally, I think this is a pretty solid list (though, like many, I might quibble with the order. I'd put Rakim ahead of Biggie and move 'Pac a few positions down. I think Ice Cube, despite falling the fuck off, is a wise choice and suprisingly, I think I'd actually keep Cube up here too). I'm actually not inclined to take anyone off.

    Take Eminem off, you poptart. And add 'Face.

  • pacmanpacman 1,113 Posts
    Let's just back this up for a moment. The problem with honorable mentions is that it lets people off the hook from having to make the hard choices.

    Go back to this original list:


    10. LL Cool J
    9. Eminem
    8. Ice Cube
    7. Big Daddy Kane
    6. KRS-ONE
    5. Nas
    4. Rakim
    3. Biggie
    2. 2Pac
    1. Jay-Z

    Ok, so fine, your favorite rapper got left off. Put them back on but you gotta take someone off to do it.

    Personally, I think this is a pretty solid list (though, like many, I might quibble with the order. I'd put Rakim ahead of Biggie and move 'Pac a few positions down. I think Ice Cube, despite falling the fuck off, is a wise choice and suprisingly, I think I'd actually keep Cube up here too). I'm actually not inclined to take anyone off.

    Take Eminem off, you poptart. And add 'Face. Chuck D

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    This list looks like its based on influence on a genre as much as it is lyrical ability. Those 10 dudes made rap music what it is today. Kool Keith could hold his own on the mic with a few guys on that list, but he didn't change the game with his style. If anyone of those rappers on that list hadn't exisited, rap today would not be the same.

    I totally disagree w/ your assessment of KK's influence. Ask Chuck/Rakim/JB's/DLSoul/can attest to their love for kk. No critical beatdown, no de la soul.

  • grandpa_shiggrandpa_shig 5,799 Posts
    babyface rules

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts







  • If he's not in a top 10 list or at LEAST top 20, I'm going to war with the hatters.


    I got your back mayne.

    By far, Chuck D has had some of the biggest impact in the game.



    I got a letter from the government
    The other day
    I opened and read it
    It said they were suckers
    They wanted me for their army or whatever
    Picture me given' a damn - I said never
    Here is a land that never gave a damn
    About a brother like me and myself
    Because they never did
    I wasn't wit' it, but just that very minute...
    It occured to me
    The suckers had authority
    Cold sweatin' as I dwell in my cell
    How long has it been?
    They got me sittin' in the state pen
    I gotta get out - but that thought was thought before
    I contemplated a plan on the cell floor
    I'm not a fugitive on the run
    But a brother like me begun - to be another one
    Public enemy servin' time - they drew the line y'all
    To criticize me some crime - never the less
    They could not understand that I'm a Black man
    And I could never be a veteran
    On the strength, the situation's unreal
    I got a raw deal, so I'm goin' for the steel

    They got me rottin' in the time that I'm servin'
    Tellin' you what happened the same time they're throwin'
    4 of us packed in a cell like slaves - oh well
    The same motherfucker got us livin' is his hell
    You have to realize - what its a form of slavery
    Organized under a swarm of devils
    Straight up - word'em up on the level
    The reasons are several, most of them federal
    Here is my plan anyway and I say
    I got gusto, but only some I can trust - yo
    Some do a bid from 1 to 10
    And I never did, and plus I never been
    I'm on a tier where no tears should ever fall
    Cell block and locked - I never clock it y'all
    'Cause time and time again time
    They got me servin' to those and to them
    I'm not a citizen
    But ever when I catch a C-O
    Sleepin' on the job - my plan is on go-ahead
    On the strength, I'ma tell you the deal
    I got nothin' to lose
    'Cause I'm goin' for the steel

    You know I caught a C-O
    Fallin' asleep on death row
    I grabbed his gun - then he did what I said so
    And everyman's got served
    Along with the time they served
    Decency was deserved
    To understand my demands
    I gave a warnin' - I wanted the governor, y'all
    And plus the warden to know
    That I was innocent -
    Because I'm militant
    Posing a threat, you bet it's fuckin' up the government
    My plan said I had to get out and break north
    Just like with Oliver's neck
    I had to get off - my boys had the feds in check
    They couldn't do nuthin'
    We had a force to instigate a prison riot
    This is what it takes for peace
    So I just took the piece
    Black for Black inside time to cut the leash
    Freedom to get out - to the ghetto - no sell out
    6 C-Os we got we ought to put their head out
    But I'll give 'em a chance, cause I'm civilized
    As for the rest of the world, they can't realize
    A cell is hell - I'm a rebel so I rebel
    Between bars, got me thinkin' like an animal
    Got a woman C-O to call me a copter
    She tried to get away, and I popped her
    Twice, right
    Now who wanna get nice?
    I had 6 C-Os, now it's 5 to go
    And I'm serious - call me delirious
    But I'm still a captive
    I gotta rap this
    Time to break as time grows intense
    I got the steel in my right hand
    Now I'm lookin' for the fence

    I ventured into the courtyard
    Followed by 52 brothers
    Bruised, battered, and scarred but hard
    Goin' out with a bang
    Ready to bang out
    But power from the sky
    And from the tower shots rang out
    A high number of dose - yes
    And some came close
    Figure I trigger my steel
    Stand and hold my post
    This is what I mean - an anti-nigger machine
    If I come out alive and then they won't - come clean
    And then I threw up my steel bullets - flew up
    Blew up, who shot...
    What, who, the bazooka was who
    And to my rescue, it was the S1Ws
    Secured my getaway, so I just gotaway
    The joint broke, from the black smoke
    Then they saw it was rougher thatn the average bluffer
    'Cause the steel was black, the attitude exact
    Now the chase is on tellin' you to c'mon
    53 brothers on the run, and we are gone

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    But where does Busdriver fit into all of this?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Let's just back this up for a moment. The problem with honorable mentions is that it lets people off the hook from having to make the hard choices.

    Go back to this original list:


    10. LL Cool J
    9. Eminem
    8. Ice Cube
    7. Big Daddy Kane
    6. KRS-ONE
    5. Nas
    4. Rakim
    3. Biggie
    2. 2Pac
    1. Jay-Z

    Ok, so fine, your favorite rapper got left off. Put them back on but you gotta take someone off to do it.

    Personally, I think this is a pretty solid list (though, like many, I might quibble with the order. I'd put Rakim ahead of Biggie and move 'Pac a few positions down. I think Ice Cube, despite falling the fuck off, is a wise choice and suprisingly, I think I'd actually keep Cube up here too). I'm actually not inclined to take anyone off.

    Take Eminem off, you poptart. And add 'Face. Chuck D

    I am going to drop a revelation of earthshaking proportions here and say that while I love P.E. for how they sounded and what they represented, I have always thought Chuck D was a little forced and awkward as lyricist.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts


    Highly recommended. I don't think anybody really cares about what Kool Moe Dee thinks of Mack 10, but the material where he talks about dudes from his own era is invaluable.

  • babyface rules

    Umm...I'm pretty sure faux was referring to No Face.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts

    I am going to drop a revelation of earthshaking proportions here and say that while I love P.E. for how they sounded and what they represented, I have always thought Chuck D was a little forced and awkward as lyricist.

    It's funny - I was talking with this cat who's working on a book that looks at hip-hop lyrics as poetry (i.e. take away the music and look at them as words on a page) and I asked him if there's anyone who's given props as an MC who isn't actually that good a poet and responded, "yeah, Chuck D."

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    I am going to drop a revelation of earthshaking proportions here and say that while I love P.E. for how they sounded and what they represented, I have always thought Chuck D was a little forced and awkward as lyricist.

    It's funny - I was talking with this cat who's working on a book that looks at hip-hop lyrics as poetry (i.e. take away the music and look at them as words on a page) and I asked him if there's anyone who's given props as an MC who isn't actually that good a poet and responded, "yeah, Chuck D."

    I'm kind of reluctant to accept a cosign from anybody that thinks a book that analyzes rap lyrics as "poetry" is a good look, though...
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