Does this generation of hip hop listener have a Chuck D or KRS that they can get down with? I listen to rap made today, but I don't hear voices like a PE or BDP. Those artists had a major influence on me as a young person & helped shape my world view as it stands today. Most of the new songs I hear are party songs or some gangster 'ish. Do people here think that the acts mentioned above would have any success in today's market? When I was a high school dropout, I heard KRS say that knowledge is power. From that, I went back to school, aquired knowledge & then got money. Who does the high school dropout of today have to give him inspiration? Is there an album he/she can kick it to? Is there a current "You Must Learn"?
Peace
h
You cant compare KRS in 88 and 50 Cent in 2006.
KRS was unknown to the mainstream when you were a kid, 50 Cent is one of the most successful artist right now. The equivalent of PE or BDP would be guys like Immortal Technique or Dead Pres.
I didn't mean to comapare the two - I wrote "Most of the new songs I hear are party songs or some gangster 'ish", but I meant that's what's I listen to most nowadays. I was wondering if there are PE type groups that I've been sleeping on. And I agree with Drbrowncelery that the concious thing was just another musical trend that companies were capitalizing on. The music did have an impact on me, though.
Except that...well, you're wrong. Comparing BDP and especially PE to Dead PRez or Immortal Tech is just not accurate, and it's revisionist history (a soulstrut favorite!) regarding the popularity/mainstream impact that such groups enjoyed compared to the angry trash (Immortal, DP) whom you're trying to group them with. Public Enemy was one of the best-selling rap groups of their time and sold out big arenas around the world.
Actually I totally agree with you. I think I was just not clear.
It is pointless to compare rap in 1988 and 2006. PE was one of the most successful rap group of a time when rap was an undergound genre. You didn't hear the most successful rap groups of that time on the radio like you hear them now. They barely went gold. If you're signed to Def Jam now and only sell one million, you're a failure.
You had to go and look for something different to be exposed to X Clan, or PE back then. Nowadays it is impossible not to know Eminem or 50 Cent.
HAZ asked for name of people who don't stick to just party song or gangsta. I just gave a few names. I don't like them, i don't think they will ever have the same impact but they seem to be inspired by 80's conscious rap. Just like Common, Talib Kweli, David Banner, The Coup or Saigon
Moreover, this fact brings up another greater fallacy with what people are saying in this thread: namely, the notion that this music lead to anything other than an ephemeral swell in the level of social concsiousness/social activism enjoyed by the average person. Once you get past the core audience that PE and similar conscious groups had, in other words, once you take a look at the majority of their fans who helped them fill those arenas and get those plaques, it's clear that they paid no more than lip service to the conscious messages in the lyrics. They just liked the fashion and the beats.(see also: frat boys vis-a-vis Rage Against the Machine) I challenge anyone to assert that this is not the truth. I remember murderers with Africa medallions on, I remember guidos who would beat black dudes with baseball bats for coming into their neighborhoods pumping PE at top volume. People need to stop pretending like conscious rap music inspired any sort of long-lasting social change. It was my favorite period/genre in hip-hop, but honestly it was just a trend like anything else, another permutation of musical style.
I saw PE in Austin back in, I think, 1991. I remember that tix were $20 and one of our campus radio station's black DJs (maybe the only one at the time, besides Archaic) was pissed because he felt the high price would alienate blacks and that the crowd would be 90% white-like-me.
Moreover, this fact brings up another greater fallacy with what people are saying in this thread: namely, the notion that this music lead to anything other than an ephemeral swell in the level of social concsiousness/social activism enjoyed by the average person. Once you get past the core audience that PE and similar conscious groups had, in other words, once you take a look at the majority of their fans who helped them fill those arenas and get those plaques, it's clear that they paid no more than lip service to the conscious messages in the lyrics. They just liked the fashion and the beats.(see also: frat boys vis-a-vis Rage Against the Machine) I challenge anyone to assert that this is not the truth. I remember murderers with Africa medallions on, I remember guidos who would beat black dudes with baseball bats for coming into their neighborhoods pumping PE at top volume. People need to stop pretending like conscious rap music inspired any sort of long-lasting social change. It was my favorite period/genre in hip-hop, but honestly it was just a trend like anything else, another permutation of musical style.
I saw PE in Austin back in, I think, 1991. I remember that tix were $20 and one of our campus radio station's black DJs (maybe the only one at the time, besides Archaic) was pissed because he felt the high price would alienate blacks and that the crowd would be 90% white-like-me.
And he was right.
Hence the phenomenon of doods rocking herringbones, capezio shoes, and Tachini track suits, who use "moolie" as an everyday part of their vocabulary, driving around the Tri-state area screaming such lines as "follower of Farrakhan". To be honest though, I'm not criticizing these people, partially because I am honest enough with myself to understand that I'm sorta part of the same demographic and partially because music (hip-hop especially) should offer escape and fantasy and a window into the lives of people different from yourself. Same way alot of working-class folks were/are drawn to the more "livin lavish" Puffy/Ja Rule/JayZ cristal and Bentley songs. It's not that they think they're tycoons or whatever, but quite the opposite: they're looking for a little bit of escapism.
On a related note, it puzzles me that violent hip-hop takes so much heat from self-appointed moral guardians, especially in this case a foolio who works in the film industry, when television and films are by-and-large waaaaaaay more violent and graphic. For some reason though, people generally seem to be able to put that shit in proper perspective in a way they cannot when it comes to music: just because I want to escape my mundane reality for a couple of hours and watch someone get their head blown off by an Austrian bodybuilder (turned governor, might I add, an opportunity that would never EVER be afforded to someone like 50 Cent), doesn't mean I'm violent. People who commit violent acts and sell drugs do so due to a thousand factors more influential than music or films. Alot of y'all sound like some real right-wing focus on the family folls all of the sudden.
"Get rich or die trying" was an appealing concept to people who have little in the face of so much wealth long before hip-hop came around. Ask Louis Lepke, Al Capone, or Billy the Kid.
Hence the phenomenon of doods rocking herringbones, capezio shoes, and Tachini track suits, who use "moolie" as an everyday part of their vocabulary[/b]
Back in '69(I was 12) I was going to see Led Zeppelin at Madison Square Garden and we were going to make a day of it, hanging out in Manhattan all day and take in the concert that night.
As we were leaving my buddy's house his father, who was Italian, told us 'Be careful and watch out for the Moolies".
As we walked away I asked my friend what the hell a "moolie" was......he said "An eggplant"
For a minute or two all I could think of was that goofy song that was popular at the time "The Eggplant That Ate Chicago" and had visions of being chased by a large purple fruit down 42nd street.
Unfortunately I later learned what it really meant and heard it way too often in my mostly Italian neighborhood.
On a related note, it puzzles me that violent hip-hop takes so much heat from self-appointed moral guardians, especially in this case a foolio who works in the film industry, when television and films are by-and-large waaaaaaay more violent and graphic.
My only problem with this statement is that almost gives the "films create violence" theory a shred of credibility, which is one shred more than it merits.
I brought this up in another thread a while back, but I recently read an essay by Dave Hickey called "Pontormo's Rainbow." In it, he talks about a campaign waged during his childhood (in the 1950s) to clean up cartoons and cartoon violence. He states that kids know that running over a real cat with a lawnmower would most assuredly result in a lot of blood and one dead cat, whereas Jerry running over Tom with a lawnmower results only in a shaved strip down Tom's back. Which is precisely why it's funny and entertaining: because it's not real.
He goes on to say that, for the vast majority of us, there's a huge difference between what we want to see and what we want to see represented. He extrapolates this to include all visual arts. I'm doing my own extrapolation here when it comes to music, because it applies (at least for me) to certain things.
For the most part, I'm not into hearing sex rhymes, but there are certain guilty pleasures (read: most of the Beatnuts' catalogs). And there is quite a bit of rap violence that, for better or worse, I truly enjoy listening to. But I don't ever wanna see that shit play out in the real world. Keepin' it on wax makes it very different to me.
Hence the phenomenon of doods rocking herringbones, capezio shoes, and Tachini track suits, who use "moolie" as an everyday part of their vocabulary, driving around the Tri-state area screaming such lines as "follower of Farrakhan". To be honest though, I'm not criticizing these people, partially because I am honest enough with myself to understand that I'm sorta part of the same demographic[/b]
Insofar as you rock Capezios? I guess I missed that in the "post your kicks" thread.
On a related note, it puzzles me that violent hip-hop takes so much heat from self-appointed moral guardians, especially in this case a foolio who works in the film industry, when television and films are by-and-large waaaaaaay more violent and graphic.
My only problem with this statement is that almost gives the "films create violence" theory a shred of credibility, which is one shred more than it merits.
I brought this up in another thread a while back, but I recently read an essay by Dave Hickey called "Pontormo's Rainbow." In it, he talks about a campaign waged during his childhood (in the 1950s) to clean up cartoons and cartoon violence. He states that kids know that running over a real cat with a lawnmower would most assuredly result in a lot of blood and one dead cat, whereas Jerry running over Tom with a lawnmower results only in a shaved strip down Tom's back. Which is precisely why it's funny and entertaining: because it's not real.
He goes on to say that, for the vast majority of us, there's a huge difference between what we want to see and what we want to see represented. He extrapolates this to include all visual arts. I'm doing my own extrapolation here when it comes to music, because it applies (at least for me) to certain things.
For the most part, I'm not into hearing sex rhymes, but there are certain guilty pleasures (read: most of the Beatnuts' catalogs). And there is quite a bit of rap violence that, for better or worse, I truly enjoy listening to. But I don't ever wanna see that shit play out in the real world. Keepin' it on wax makes it very different to me.
Hence the phenomenon of doods rocking herringbones, capezio shoes, and Tachini track suits, who use "moolie" as an everyday part of their vocabulary, driving around the Tri-state area screaming such lines as "follower of Farrakhan". To be honest though, I'm not criticizing these people, partially because I am honest enough with myself to understand that I'm sorta part of the same demographic[/b]
Insofar as you rock Capezios? I guess I missed that in the "post your kicks" thread.
1. I don't believe television and film cause violence anymore than music does. The Hickey essay is right on the money: people enjoy the violence in movies and music precisely because it's so cartoonish. I was merely pointing out the strange double standard between film and music. As much as I hate to pull the race card, I can't help but feel that most (white) folks are allowing their distress at the messages in the music to be amplified tenfold because of the color of the messenger. Again, why can Arnold, a mysognistic, admitted former drug abuser, who made millions promoting outlandish violence become the governor of California, a position that Dr. Dre won't soon find himself in? Because he's white that's why.
When I was young Spike Lee was coooool. Most kids these days have probably never even heard of Spike Lee. I cant really blame them either. I didn't know who the fuck Dolomite was when I was a kid except for random rap references.
The only difference between the movies and rap as I see it is that outside of movies "based on a true story" (like Texas Chainsaw Massacre to take an extreme example), most movies are presented as fiction. Rap on the other hand is constantly about "realness" and "Keeping it real" and so on. So even though the truth is probably about as true as Texas Chainsaw Massacre was, a lot of poeople wouldn't know the difference.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre implied that the shit that happened in that movie was true, so when I first saw it I just assumed it was, and it scared the shit out of me. Rappers want to have it both ways... In "The Streets" they're telling people shit is REAL, YO. Until the media throws a fit, and then they are saying "no, this is just entertainment, like Action Movies and shit".
Personally, I could care less one way or the other. The reason I dont care for 'new rap' is because the shit is tired. The beats aren't funky or soulfull and rappers are too concerned with being real, rather than real talented. There are of course exceptions, which is why I'm dying for the new ghostface to come out. That dude stays original when mediocrity has become trendy. and no robot beats.
but anyways, Spike mad some damn fine movies in his day. Malcolm X, Do THe Right THing... but those days are gone, so kids don't know who he is.
1. I don't believe television and film cause violence anymore than music does. The Hickey essay is right on the money: people enjoy the violence in movies and music precisely because it's so cartoonish. I was merely pointing out the strange double standard between film and music.
I am not so sure that everyone looks at music and film in a similar light as far as enjoying the cartoonish violence goes.
Musicians may be acting (or may not as the case may be) but many comeoff like their songs are their everyday life. They say it is from experiences and stuff they've seen. Where as a film is known to have actors in it and most are known just as screen idols not thugs and killas. No one is going to approach Larenz Tate and think he is O-dog or that car jacker from Crash. But with people like 50 most would probably not see him as everyday citizen Curtis Jackson.
It's because the music is sold as truth that it carries a more serious weight.
Add in that most albums don't follow a storyline like a film does and therefore rarely offers a resolution to whatever the conflict is and we have two different feels/perceptions from two different sources of entertainment
and Zvi, I don't quite know what your issue is with me or what it stems from but its pretty dissapointing that you want to just paint me the way you feel I should be. If youre mad at some debate JP and I had don't worry we both seem to have enough respect for each other to clear the air and never take it too personal. I've even called him and apologized for times I feel I may have truly been a dickhead. I started this thread cause I thought it was an article that deserved to be discussed by those that have been so hot on the subject. I did expect to be attacked for stating Spikes view cause it mirrors pretty closely to mine. If you want to look for some underlying secret agenda go ahead and be my guest, but it would probably be easier to take my word for it that there wasn't one
i was born and raised in a country which many of you guys wouldn't even be able to pronounce let alone point out on a map. it is also a country that has seen more suffering and violence than you guys can imagine.
i cannot speak for the black communities, but i've seen chuck d and spike lee speak in person and these are real artists that i admire and respect.
20 years from now when american society goes even further down the tubes, you're not gonna look back on murder inc, and "get rich or die tryin" as uplifting works of art that went against the grain. know what i mean?
i was born and raised in a country which many of you guys wouldn't even be able to pronounce let alone point out on a map. it is also a country that has seen more suffering and violence than you guys can imagine.
i cannot speak for the black communities, but i've seen chuck d and spike lee speak in person and these are real artists that i admire and respect.
20 years from now when american society goes even further down the tubes, you're not gonna look back on murder inc, and "get rich or die tryin" as uplifting works of art that went against the grain. know what i mean?
From your unique perspective, what is causing American society to go down the tubes???
From your unique perspective, what is causing American society to go down the tubes???
i'm an artist. not a politician, or a sociologist. i am not for censorship and i would be the last person to blame music and movies for all the problems in society. however popular artists are role models, and i do find it troubling that a lot of todays popular artists have nothing positive or constructive to contribute to society.
20 years from now when american society goes even further down the tubes, you're not gonna look back on murder inc, and "get rich or die tryin" as uplifting works of art that went against the grain. know what i mean?
Good point. However, EdPowers is one dude who doesn't speak out of his ass. Ignoring him would be a disservice to yourself, ESPECIALLY IN A THREAD THAT DEALS WITH, SPEAKS ON OR DISSES THE "STATE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY."
Which reminds me, is there a way to ignore all non-Black posters when reading these type of threads? Better yet, can they be blocked? Only Blacks should be allowed to speak on this subject. Growing up in the "hood," having black friends (or girlfriends), or "working closely" with Blacks doesn't count.
No, but he does sound outta touch with young people. He will probably turn into a bill cosby type.
dude you really need to pick up a book and put down the young jeezy.
Cosign!!!! Spikes comments = This ignorant "get money" shit being pumped to Black folks sucks. What does it mean to get money when folks lack basic literacy? Have high high school dropout reads? Low college admissions and graduation rates? Poor creditworthiness? High mortality? Low voting participation? High dependence on government assistance? High unwed pregancies? Low representation in living wage jobs? With all this tragedy, underachievement, and hopelessness, all these young (so-called) brothas can find to talk about is getting money, wearing "ice", and driving an Escalade?
"The ever-tangled web we weave Always trying to obtain, no attempt to achieve"
Brother J pretty much said it all with that one rhyme. And that goes for all people, too.
From your unique perspective, what is causing American society to go down the tubes???
i'm an artist. not a politician, or a sociologist. i am not for censorship and i would be the last person to blame music and movies for all the problems in society. however popular artists are role models, and i do find it troubling that a lot of todays popular artists have nothing positive or constructive to contribute to society.
You know, I was going to write something about all the apparent contradictions in your statements and how if we were having this conversation thirty years ago we'd be talking about how Black Sabbath is making the entire world satanic or some other kind of bullshit paranoid delusion that creeps into the general public every generation or so concearning the new generation of "clueless/morally devoid/doomed" youth. But who knows, maybe you you have a point. Maybe we're all fucked.
Hence the phenomenon of doods rocking herringbones, capezio shoes, and Tachini track suits, who use "moolie" as an everyday part of their vocabulary[/b]
Back in '69(I was 12) I was going to see Led Zeppelin at Madison Square Garden and we were going to make a day of it, hanging out in Manhattan all day and take in the concert that night.
As we were leaving my buddy's house his father, who was Italian, told us 'Be careful and watch out for the Moolies".
As we walked away I asked my friend what the hell a "moolie" was......he said "An eggplant"
For a minute or two all I could think of was that goofy song that was popular at the time "The Eggplant That Ate Chicago" and had visions of being chased by a large purple fruit down 42nd street.
Unfortunately I later learned what it really meant and heard it way too often in my mostly Italian neighborhood.
the vision of the large fruit plant chasing you crack me up but.........
......were they really so racist italian communities back then ? please elaborate more on this
Good point. However, EdPowers is one dude who doesn't speak out of his ass. Ignoring him would be a disservice to yourself, ESPECIALLY IN A THREAD THAT DEALS WITH, SPEAKS ON OR DISSES THE "STATE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY."
Which reminds me, is there a way to ignore all non-Black posters when reading these type of threads? Better yet, can they be blocked? Only Blacks should be allowed to speak on this subject. Growing up in the "hood," having black friends (or girlfriends), or "working closely" with Blacks doesn't count.
Good point. However, EdPowers is one dude who doesn't speak out of his ass. Ignoring him would be a disservice to yourself, ESPECIALLY IN A THREAD THAT DEALS WITH, SPEAKS ON OR DISSES THE "STATE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY."
Which reminds me, is there a way to ignore all non-Black posters when reading these type of threads? Better yet, can they be blocked? Only Blacks should be allowed to speak on this subject. Growing up in the "hood," having black friends (or girlfriends), or "working closely" with Blacks doesn't count.
Herm
With no disrespect to Hotsauce, people should speak on what ever they want. No one has to agree. Its called having an opinion & even if that opinion is based on bullshit, I'm not gonna deny some dude to speak his mind, even if he's hopelessly out of touch. If a dude wants to shame himself in public, I wouldn't stand in his way. This is like asking people to watch their language. When Guzzo does that & people rag on him, another dude does the same & he's a hero? LOL!!!!
Double standard strut in effect.
To the dude who would ignore Ed Powers - why would you do that? Because you don't feel what he's saying? You don't think his views are valid? Let the man speak & listen to what he has to say. Maybe you & I & others can benifit from the knowledge of a guy who lives shit that we haven't experienced first hand.
With no disrespect to Hotsauce, people should speak on what ever they want.
I was just about to say this, seems round here that if you don't agree with certain people that they immediately claim that you cannot commment/have a view unless you have actually walked in their shoes... If we were only to speak on what we have directly experienced a lot of people would have very little to say and it would not allow us to enjoy the wide and varied dicussion that goes on here.
With no disrespect to Hotsauce, people should speak on what ever they want.
I was just about to say this, seems round here that if you don't agree with certain people that they immediately claim that you cannot commment/have a view unless you have actually walked in their shoes... If we were only to speak on what we have directly experienced a lot of people would have very little to say and it would not allow us to enjoy the wide and varied dicussion that goes on here.
i agree with this mostly.
but there's a difference between speaking about people and speaking for them.
Comments
I didn't mean to comapare the two - I wrote "Most of the new songs I hear are party songs or some gangster 'ish", but I meant that's what's I listen to most nowadays. I was wondering if there are PE type groups that I've been sleeping on. And I agree with Drbrowncelery that the concious thing was just another musical trend that companies were capitalizing on. The music did have an impact on me, though.
Peace
h
Actually I totally agree with you. I think I was just not clear.
It is pointless to compare rap in 1988 and 2006. PE was one of the most successful rap group of a time when rap was an undergound genre. You didn't hear the most successful rap groups of that time on the radio like you hear them now. They barely went gold. If you're signed to Def Jam now and only sell one million, you're a failure.
You had to go and look for something different to be exposed to X Clan, or PE back then. Nowadays it is impossible not to know Eminem or 50 Cent.
HAZ asked for name of people who don't stick to just party song or gangsta. I just gave a few names. I don't like them, i don't think they will ever have the same impact but they seem to be inspired by 80's conscious rap. Just like Common, Talib Kweli, David Banner, The Coup or Saigon
I saw PE in Austin back in, I think, 1991. I remember that tix were $20 and one of our campus radio station's black DJs (maybe the only one at the time, besides Archaic) was pissed because he felt the high price would alienate blacks and that the crowd would be 90% white-like-me.
And he was right.
Hence the phenomenon of doods rocking herringbones, capezio shoes, and Tachini track suits, who use "moolie" as an everyday part of their vocabulary, driving around the Tri-state area screaming such lines as "follower of Farrakhan". To be honest though, I'm not criticizing these people, partially because I am honest enough with myself to understand that I'm sorta part of the same demographic and partially because music (hip-hop especially) should offer escape and fantasy and a window into the lives of people different from yourself. Same way alot of working-class folks were/are drawn to the more "livin lavish" Puffy/Ja Rule/JayZ cristal and Bentley songs. It's not that they think they're tycoons or whatever, but quite the opposite: they're looking for a little bit of escapism.
On a related note, it puzzles me that violent hip-hop takes so much heat from self-appointed moral guardians, especially in this case a foolio who works in the film industry, when television and films are by-and-large waaaaaaay more violent and graphic. For some reason though, people generally seem to be able to put that shit in proper perspective in a way they cannot when it comes to music: just because I want to escape my mundane reality for a couple of hours and watch someone get their head blown off by an Austrian bodybuilder (turned governor, might I add, an opportunity that would never EVER be afforded to someone like 50 Cent), doesn't mean I'm violent. People who commit violent acts and sell drugs do so due to a thousand factors more influential than music or films. Alot of y'all sound like some real right-wing focus on the family folls all of the sudden.
"Get rich or die trying" was an appealing concept to people who have little in the face of so much wealth long before hip-hop came around. Ask Louis Lepke, Al Capone, or Billy the Kid.
SOmetimes i get the feeling theres a few in here that dont even like music, they just like to argue.
Hey, at least I like music too!
Back in '69(I was 12) I was going to see Led Zeppelin at Madison Square Garden and we were going to make a day of it, hanging out in Manhattan all day and take in the concert that night.
As we were leaving my buddy's house his father, who was Italian, told us 'Be careful and watch out for the Moolies".
As we walked away I asked my friend what the hell a "moolie" was......he said "An eggplant"
For a minute or two all I could think of was that goofy song that was popular at the time "The Eggplant That Ate Chicago" and had visions of being chased by a large purple fruit down 42nd street.
Unfortunately I later learned what it really meant and heard it way too often in my mostly Italian neighborhood.
My only problem with this statement is that almost gives the "films create violence" theory a shred of credibility, which is one shred more than it merits.
I brought this up in another thread a while back, but I recently read an essay by Dave Hickey called "Pontormo's Rainbow." In it, he talks about a campaign waged during his childhood (in the 1950s) to clean up cartoons and cartoon violence. He states that kids know that running over a real cat with a lawnmower would most assuredly result in a lot of blood and one dead cat, whereas Jerry running over Tom with a lawnmower results only in a shaved strip down Tom's back. Which is precisely why it's funny and entertaining: because it's not real.
He goes on to say that, for the vast majority of us, there's a huge difference between what we want to see and what we want to see represented. He extrapolates this to include all visual arts. I'm doing my own extrapolation here when it comes to music, because it applies (at least for me) to certain things.
For the most part, I'm not into hearing sex rhymes, but there are certain guilty pleasures (read: most of the Beatnuts' catalogs). And there is quite a bit of rap violence that, for better or worse, I truly enjoy listening to. But I don't ever wanna see that shit play out in the real world. Keepin' it on wax makes it very different to me.
Insofar as you rock Capezios?
1. I don't believe television and film cause violence anymore than music does. The Hickey essay is right on the money: people enjoy the violence in movies and music precisely because it's so cartoonish. I was merely pointing out the strange double standard between film and music. As much as I hate to pull the race card, I can't help but feel that most (white) folks are allowing their distress at the messages in the music to be amplified tenfold because of the color of the messenger. Again, why can Arnold, a mysognistic, admitted former drug abuser, who made millions promoting outlandish violence become the governor of California, a position that Dr. Dre won't soon find himself in? Because he's white that's why.
2. No, but I do own a Sergio Tachini tracksuit.
The only difference between the movies and rap as I see it is that outside of movies "based on a true story" (like Texas Chainsaw Massacre to take an extreme example), most movies are presented as fiction. Rap on the other hand is constantly about "realness" and "Keeping it real" and so on. So even though the truth is probably about as true as Texas Chainsaw Massacre was, a lot of poeople wouldn't know the difference.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre implied that the shit that happened in that movie was true, so when I first saw it I just assumed it was, and it scared the shit out of me. Rappers want to have it both ways... In "The Streets" they're telling people shit is REAL, YO. Until the media throws a fit, and then they are saying "no, this is just entertainment, like Action Movies and shit".
Personally, I could care less one way or the other. The reason I dont care for 'new rap' is because the shit is tired. The beats aren't funky or soulfull and rappers are too concerned with being real, rather than real talented. There are of course exceptions, which is why I'm dying for the new ghostface to come out. That dude stays original when mediocrity has become trendy. and no robot beats.
but anyways, Spike mad some damn fine movies in his day. Malcolm X, Do THe Right THing... but those days are gone, so kids don't know who he is.
I am not so sure that everyone looks at music and film in a similar light as far as enjoying the cartoonish violence goes.
Musicians may be acting (or may not as the case may be) but many comeoff like their songs are their everyday life. They say it is from experiences and stuff they've seen. Where as a film is known to have actors in it and most are known just as screen idols not thugs and killas. No one is going to approach Larenz Tate and think he is O-dog or that car jacker from Crash. But with people like 50 most would probably not see him as everyday citizen Curtis Jackson.
It's because the music is sold as truth that it carries a more serious weight.
Add in that most albums don't follow a storyline like a film does and therefore rarely offers a resolution to whatever the conflict is and we have two different feels/perceptions from two different sources of entertainment
and Zvi, I don't quite know what your issue is with me or what it stems from but its pretty dissapointing that you want to just paint me the way you feel I should be. If youre mad at some debate JP and I had don't worry we both seem to have enough respect for each other to clear the air and never take it too personal. I've even called him and apologized for times I feel I may have truly been a dickhead.
I started this thread cause I thought it was an article that deserved to be discussed by those that have been so hot on the subject. I did expect to be attacked for stating Spikes view cause it mirrors pretty closely to mine. If you want to look for some underlying secret agenda go ahead and be my guest, but it would probably be easier to take my word for it that there wasn't one
"freedom is a road seldom travelled by the multitude"
i need an ignore user button for the following:
bsides
edpowers
slurg
how much will this cost? i will pay cash, credit, raers...
yeah..... i know nothing about poor black people....so i'll just kick back and read what you guys tell me it's really like ....
local black experience from Opie's perspective.....
imagine that ...my opinion on black social issues is irrelevant
so i'll just go back to that BASKETBALL thread where i belong
i think Day was right
HOw dare you judge white canadians!
i cannot speak for the black communities, but i've seen chuck d and spike lee speak in person and these are real artists that i admire and respect.
20 years from now when american society goes even further down the tubes, you're not gonna look back on murder inc, and "get rich or die tryin" as uplifting works of art that went against the grain. know what i mean?
From your unique perspective, what is causing American society to go down the tubes???
I bet he answers "Laffy Taffy"
i'm an artist. not a politician, or a sociologist. i am not for censorship and i would be the last person to blame music and movies for all the problems in society. however popular artists are role models, and i do find it troubling that a lot of todays popular artists have nothing positive or constructive to contribute to society.
Good point. However, EdPowers is one dude who doesn't speak out of his ass. Ignoring him would be a disservice to yourself, ESPECIALLY IN A THREAD THAT DEALS WITH, SPEAKS ON OR DISSES THE "STATE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY."
Which reminds me, is there a way to ignore all non-Black posters when reading these type of threads? Better yet, can they be blocked? Only Blacks should be allowed to speak on this subject. Growing up in the "hood," having black friends (or girlfriends), or "working closely" with Blacks doesn't count.
Herm
"The ever-tangled web we weave
Always trying to obtain, no attempt to achieve"
Brother J pretty much said it all with that one rhyme. And that goes for all people, too.
You know, I was going to write something about all the apparent contradictions in your statements and how if we were having this conversation thirty years ago we'd be talking about how Black Sabbath is making the entire world satanic or some other kind of bullshit paranoid delusion that creeps into the general public every generation or so concearning the new generation of "clueless/morally devoid/doomed" youth. But who knows, maybe you you have a point. Maybe we're all fucked.
the vision of the large fruit plant chasing you crack me up but.........
......were they really so racist italian communities back then ?
please elaborate more on this
p.s. = the name is "Tacchini" with double c
With no disrespect to Hotsauce, people should speak on what ever they want. No one has to agree. Its called having an opinion & even if that opinion is based on bullshit, I'm not gonna deny some dude to speak his mind, even if he's hopelessly out of touch. If a dude wants to shame himself in public, I wouldn't stand in his way. This is like asking people to watch their language. When Guzzo does that & people rag on him, another dude does the same & he's a hero? LOL!!!!
Double standard strut in effect.
To the dude who would ignore Ed Powers - why would you do that? Because you don't feel what he's saying? You don't think his views are valid? Let the man speak & listen to what he has to say. Maybe you & I & others can benifit from the knowledge of a guy who lives shit that we haven't experienced first hand.
I was just about to say this, seems round here that if you don't agree with certain people that they immediately claim that you cannot commment/have a view unless you have actually walked in their shoes...
If we were only to speak on what we have directly experienced a lot of people would have very little to say and it would not allow us to enjoy the wide and varied dicussion that goes on here.
i agree with this mostly.
but there's a difference between speaking about people and speaking for them.