Is Spike Lee Out Of Touch...
Guzzo
8,611 Posts
...with the white guys on here who feel they can speak on black culture?In the most recent issue of Complex Spike sits down for an interview and speaks out on the image of hip hop. I couldn't find a direct transcription of the article, but this serves just as well:http://www.streethop.com/forum/article158817.html"I love hip-hop,' Lee told Complex magazine. "But there are certain elements that are just [problematic]. You name your company Murder Incorporated, your logo's got bullet holes in it, you changed your name to Gotti, and you wonder why your ass is in court? I mean, come on. You want to be a gangster? Alright, well gangsters go to jail; gangsters get shot. I mean, look, 50 Cent has made a lot of money, but whatever you are doing that makes you have to put a bulletproof vest on your 5-year-old son, that's time for some deep introspective shit."Spike didn't stop there. The outspoken director also bashed Cutis Jackson's motion picture debut, Get Rich or Die Trying, and his video game, commenting that they corrupt impressionable kids."That whole mantra-'Get Rich or Die Tryin'-for me that's criminal," Lee explained. "Because young brothers, they took that to heart: 'Whatever I got to do to get them rims, get my fly gear, to get my bitches and hoes, I'm going to do it. Fuck who I got to hurt, who I got to shoot, who I got to kill.' That's crazy to me. And his video game, Bulletproof? I'm sorry, I can't get with that." there was also an interesting part of the article where he cited the example of a young man being gunned down in PA the weekend 50's movie came out.thoughts? comments?
Comments
Oy, I have a feeling that this is gonna be one long-ass thread.
depends on the mentality of those that post within it.
Props for starting your statement with "Oy"
If anyone has a link to the full article it would be really appreciated.
spike should call a "hip-hop summit" where all these folls get together and have panel discussions and smile for the camera and write one of those big oversized checks for some midnight basketball program.
and then there'll be a beatdown in the lobby.
As 2 / 12ths of the group D12, Bizarre is certainly that, sometimes wacky and often unusual.
Cosign!!!! Spikes comments =
And in a related point of contention, what the fuck is wrong with Soulstrut? The more I read some of these threads, I'm really losing respect for cats. Why do people have to support dumb shit to be down? It's as if some people revel in Blacks' propensity to glorify the trivial. That shit depresses and pisses me off at the same time. I just don't understand, but I guess I'll be labeled old and grumpy, in true Soulstrut style.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
am i'm missing some sort of intended sarcasm here ?? if not...
your comments are extremely offensive and racist on a few different levels
word the fuck up!
I was worried this entire thread was going to be bashed upon as that seems to be the trend with soulstrut and speaking a non-crowd approved viewpoint on hip-hop.
I've wondered how people can knock particular rappers to point where they make it seem like you should ashamed to like them meanwhile they celebrate artists who take most of an album to speak/ build on stereotypes of ignorance, welfare, drug dealing, pimping, etc.
I've been on the defensive with some of the board regulars on this issue for a couple weeks now and have even been called a racist for sticking with it. It's good to know I'm not alone in my questions as to why this stuff is so championed by people on this board.
PS I've also found it kind of odd that people that seem to love the revolutionary spirit of 60's & 70's soul and jazz music praise the shuck and jive drug hustle brand of hip-hop I see so much on here.
They don't dance no mo...
all i can conclude is that its awful that we dont see ourselves repeating the same godamn cycle, like when our parents told us the music we listened to was complete garbage, and i'l probably...no certainly give the same lecture to my kids...i dont know what can be said as words of encouragement for the youth on the comeup, cause being a kid is all about being rebellious by default. maybe we should tell them they should be nihilistic and hope they turn into socialist hippies, i dont know. but they need to told about the essence of soul[/b] and godamn dignity. and i dont think convincing ourselves that we feel some current artist is dope, just so we can hold onto our youth is gonna make things easier, fuck that retrograte shit. stop lying to yourself and feel what u truly feel. honestly wasting too much of my time reading that young jeezy thread, the way he was talked about you would have thought the guy was the new curtis mayfield or something. if u liked him cause of the same reason i like my old nwa/cypress tracks that's cool, but realize its on the comic book fantasy level of escapism, and dont declare a persona like that of a saviour or a rolemodel. as for 50 cent, ibid.
$$$$ = freedom for poor black folks
i agree with Spike.... but 50 speaks from a perspective that Spike would probably never understand
i'm not even interested in discussing Murder Inc
I remember him making similar statements about hip-hop back around the time of Do The Right Thing in the late 80's, so it's not like he's becoming bitter with age.
This was sarcastic, but I shoulda known better nonetheless.
What I meant was that Spike (I think) enjoys some respect in the black community. To the point that these guys, if critiqued in a serious way by Spike, might make an effort to meet him halfway, acknowledge that their music promotes negativity, meet with him for a photo-op, and then go back to making shitty gangster-oriented records. It's by no means a black thing; people are hypocrites that's all. Ultimately 50 and Spike come from totally different places/perspectives and will never really agree on this.
Does this generation of hip hop listener have a Chuck D or KRS that they can get down with? I listen to new rap, but I don't hear voices like a PE or BDP. Those artists had a major influence on me as a young person & helped shape my world view as it stands today. Most of the new songs I hear are party songs or some gangster 'ish. Do people here think that the acts mentioned above would have any success in today's market? When I was a high school dropout, I heard KRS say that knowledge is power. From that, I went back to school, aquired knowledge & then got money. Who does the high school dropout of today have to give him inspiration? Is there an album he/she can kick it to? Is there a current "You Must Learn"?
Peace
h
Too LOng, DIdnt read.
Co-sign over the " Public Enemy was better than today shit " post above
You cant compare KRS in 88 and 50 Cent in 2006.
KRS was unknown to the mainstream when you were a kid, 50 Cent is one of the most successful artist right now. The equivalent of PE or BDP would be guys like Immortal Technique or Dead Pres.
I don't think thats quite right...
I don't think that Dead Pres or Immortal Technique's music can be compared to Criminal Minded or It Takes A Nation of Millions. I say that there are some rappers who follow the steps of Chuck D and KRS, even if their music is incredibly boring.
My point is that Chuck and KRS didn't have much radio airplay in the 80's, so it doesn't make sense to compare them to the current mainstream.
NO. But there are plenty of cats who drop knowledge within their lyrics without having an overt BLACKPOWER image.
Magic & Bird didnt play forever. New players embody some of the past's motifs.
And Spike isn't out of touch. I read that article in Complex and he's right on the money with his observations.
can you name me some songs/artists?
peace
h
Except that...well, you're wrong. Comparing BDP and especially PE to Dead PRez or Immortal Tech is just not accurate, and it's revisionist history (a soulstrut favorite!) regarding the popularity/mainstream impact that such groups enjoyed compared to the angry trash (Immortal, DP) whom you're trying to group them with. Public Enemy was one of the best-selling rap groups of their time and sold out big arenas around the world.
Moreover, this fact brings up another greater fallacy with what people are saying in this thread: namely, the notion that this music lead to anything other than an ephemeral swell in the level of social concsiousness/social activism enjoyed by the average person. Once you get past the core audience that PE and similar conscious groups had, in other words, once you take a look at the majority of their fans who helped them fill those arenas and get those plaques, it's clear that they paid no more than lip service to the conscious messages in the lyrics. They just liked the fashion and the beats.(see also: frat boys vis-a-vis Rage Against the Machine) I challenge anyone to assert that this is not the truth. I remember murderers with Africa medallions on, I remember guidos who would beat black dudes with baseball bats for coming into their neighborhoods pumping PE at top volume. People need to stop pretending like conscious rap music inspired any sort of long-lasting social change. It was my favorite period/genre in hip-hop, but honestly it was just a trend like anything else, another permutation of musical style.
Bottom line problem with this site is that people can't just fucking listen to hip-hop, they've gotta dissect all of the bullshit race politics, and social theory surrounding (read: not actual pertaining to) the music, in a away that doesn't occur with other genres. If you like that shit good, if you don't too bad. It's music and it does not kill people, did not cause the social problems upon which it comments (and admittedly glorifies).
Finally, Guzzo is being disingenuous as usual: when you started this thread, you were not "worried" about the reaction that it would provoke from people on here, you were hoping that you could rehash this whole tired-as-fuck soulstrut race/rap debvate so that you could get a few more people to argue with you. At least be honest about your motives dude.
I don't think he even sounds bitter, just pointing out the situation. But I thought the same about Cosby.