Oxford Union Society: "Was 911 a Conspiracy"

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  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    A little further reading into the Bldg 7 issue begs this simple question. Wouldn't rigging the building for explosives been very obvious to those who worked there? Was the entire bldg staff in on this thing? Starting to look fishy.


    Agreed.....and with any Conspiracy Theory the first and most important question is...WHY??

  • coffinjoecoffinjoe 1,743 Posts

    Why don't I believe conspiracy theories? Because they're so often poorly written, badly argued, and factually suspect--just like the tripe above.

    pick yer poorly written theory here

    the northwood thing just shows how the powers that be think,
    like sinking the maine, etc

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    A little further reading into the Bldg 7 issue begs this simple question. Wouldn't rigging the building for explosives been very obvious to those who worked there? Was the entire bldg staff in on this thing? Starting to look fishy.

    I can't be arsed to look stuff up and link here now (too busy actually working) but I've read some reasonable explanations

  • Danno3000Danno3000 2,850 Posts
    A little further reading into the Bldg 7 issue begs this simple question. Wouldn't rigging the building for explosives been very obvious to those who worked there? Was the entire bldg staff in on this thing? Starting to look fishy.






    For me, one of the greatest flaws with conspiracy theories is that they require government to act in an intelligent, efficient manner. Anybody who's worked in government can tell you how absurd a proposition this is. Or maybe they're part of the conspiracy...

  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts
    I have changed my position from Lihop to Lihbm (Let it happen by mistake)

    But all you skeptics of the skeptics, be aware that I'm skeptical of you and your motivations for being skeptical of the skeptics. GET ON MY LEVEL. Challenge Everything. Just Do It. I am real. Now More Than Ever. The More You Know. Mmm-mmm Good.

  • Options
    Don't you know that out of respect of the victims that you're not supposed to consider and especially not talk about what really happened on 9/11? Just believe the official story wholsale and buy some NYCFD garb already.


    Hahahaha, awesome.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Just believe the official story wholsale and buy some NYCFD garb already.



    When or where ever there is a tragic event you can bet that there will be people who are opportunists and either try to, or already have, figured out how to make $$$ as a result of the tragedy.

    These Opportunists are leeches, scavengers who take advantage and make profit on people's misery.....scum.

    But by no means are they smart enough, nor powerful enough, to have actually caused and covered up these tragic events themselves.

    They're like the people who see a terrible accident but instead of trying to save a victims life they steal his wallet.

    Anytime you hear a conspiracy theory in this day and age that would require 100's or possibly 1,000's of people to have co-operated and keep quiet you can bet it's bogus.

    Commentary courtesy of Grolsch Blonde / A Product of Holland.

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    Just believe the official story wholsale and buy some NYCFD garb already.



    When or where ever there is a tragic event you can bet that there will be people who are opportunists and either try to, or already have, figured out how to make $$$ as a result of the tragedy.

    These Opportunists are leeches, scavengers who take advantage and make profit on people's misery.....scum.

    But by no means are they smart enough, nor powerful enough, to have actually caused and covered up these tragic events themselves.

    They're like the people who see a terrible accident but instead of trying to save a victims life they steal his wallet.

    Anytime you hear a conspiracy theory in this day and age that would require 100's or possibly 1,000's of people to have co-operated and keep quiet you can bet it's bogus.

    Commentary courtesy of Grolsch Blonde / A Product of Holland.

    Rock I appreciate your scepticism about gov't efficiency. Paper pushers are not the most motivated people. But don't let that confuse you about who is running things. The intelligence service has proven rather apt at getting things done over the years. And furthermore the people who run the agencies are smart, crazy smart. But you make a good point about the problems in pulling off something the scope of 9/11. It just doesn't pass the smell test.

  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts
    cut n paste:

    26.Jan 2003


    Report on Oxford Union 911 Meeting

    The speakers were Annie Machon, David Shayler, ex-MI5 agents who were pretty
    sure 911 was an inside job, Ian Henshall co-author of 911 Revealed who gave
    a survey of the various theories and the missing evidence, and lecturer Bill
    Durodi?? in support of the official story.

    [This report has not been checked with the other participants it is for
    background use in response for numerous requests for some material on this
    very popular and successful meeting. It is circulated in haste to 911 Truth
    Campaigners and the media, many of whom have been asking for transcripts.
    The meeting was filmed and the Oxford Union would consider providing the
    material to interested news organisations (full transcripts likewise but the
    cost would be approximately ??200 for secretarial fees)]

    The meeting took the form not of a traditional debate but of a forum, partly
    because the US Embassy had refused to send a speaker. It attracted a turnout
    of over 300, vastly more than similar events. Oxford Union President Sapona
    Agrawal said afterwards that she had had many messages congratulating the
    Union on holding the debate.

    Annie Machon said that from her personal knowledge of how the spy world
    works it was absolutely possible that 911 was an inside job, the influence
    of MI5 in Fleet Street was far greater than most people realised and the
    penetration of the political world, particularly left wing groups, was very
    thorough. This might explain why the media and most political leaders had
    been convinced the official 911 story was true.

    David Shayler said that it was certain that MI6 had worked with Al Qaeda and
    that many individuals in the intelligence agencies had a complete contempt
    for the law. He focused on details of the collapse of the Twin Towers and
    the supposed airliner attack on the Pentagon as clear instances of why the
    official story of 911 could not be right.

    Ian Henshall said there were three main approaches, the official story (in
    which he included gross incompetence by officials), the notion that the
    attacks were deliberately allowed to happen and thirdly that they were
    engineered, in an update of the Pentagon's documented Operation Northwoods
    plot to fake a plane shootdown over Cuba. He said that the striking thing in
    working on his book was that most of the issues could be cleared up if only
    the US authorities had not seized vital evidence and refused to reveal it.
    Moreover there was a pattern of intimidation of witnesses and dishonesty by
    the 911 Commission. There was a strong likelihood at least of complicity,
    even add-ons to an Al Qaeda plot, and until the evidence was produced an
    Operation Northwoods type hoax could not be ruled out. It is agreed the
    anthrax attacks with US weapons grade anthrax were indeed an add-on to the
    911 attacks, he said.

    Bill Durodie expounded the view known to sociologists as conspiracism. This
    holds that with no real mainstream politics any more, disenfranchised people
    are believing in "infantile" conspiracy theories because there is nothing
    else. His department had counted over sixty rumours about the 911 attacks.
    He had little to say about the 911 attacks themselves. He drew little
    distinction between different conspiracy theories. He said the media would
    be only too keen to report 911 conspiracy theories if there was anything in
    them.

    During the subsequent discussion a number of questioners supported Durodie's
    line, one said that many Democrats hated Bush and would certainly have
    raised the alarm if they were suspicious. Shayler and Machon said that their
    experience with the media was the living proof that when really important
    issues come up the media is easily cowed by the state. Henshall said most
    Washington Democrats were not a serious opposition as their continued
    support, in defiance of their supporters, for the Iraq war showed, and that
    Durodie seemed to be using the expression conspiracy theory as a term of
    abuse against anyone who believed the government was lying.

    A similar number of questioners were well-informed 911 sceptics asking
    detailed questions about the collapse of the Towers and the Pentagon and
    recommending various informational web sites and dvds.

    There was no vote taken.


    Note on Conspiracism

    Conspiracism contains veiled appeals to the traditional Left but originates
    in Durkheim's theory of anomie, generally regarded as a right wing response
    to the sociology of Karl Marx. It was promoted by supporters of the official
    story on the Kennedy assassination (long debunked by the House Committee on
    Assassinations): uneducted lower class disenfranchised "white trash" were
    believing wild stories becasue they had nothing else to believe. The message
    from Durodie was that conspiracy theories are "dangerous", which could be
    taken as a covert hint to media editors that they should be censored. I have
    heard that leading 911 sceptic David Ray Griffin was attacked in similar
    terms on Amy Goodman's west coast programme Democracy Now. In the UK this
    analysis is associated with a group originally around Living Marxism
    magazine but who are generally regarded with suspicion by most on the left.
    They get generous access to the mainstream media, making sound points on
    media distortions of eg health scares, but more often attacking Greenpeace
    and the anti-globalisation movement.









  • From the Trilateral Commission website:

    The Trilateral Commission was formed in 1973 by private citizens of Japan, Europe (European Union countries), and North America (United States and Canada) to foster closer cooperation among these core democratic industrialized areas of the world with shared leadership responsibilities in the wider international system. Originally established for three years, our work has been renewed for successive triennia (three-year periods), most recently for a triennium to be completed in 2006.

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    Executive Committee
    Stelios Argyros, Chairman and Managing Director, Preveza Mills, Athens; former Member of the European Parliament; Chairman of the Board, STET Hellas; former Vice President of UNICE, Brussels; former President and Chairman of the Board of the Federation of Greek Industries, Athens
    Erik Belfrage, Senior Vice President, Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken; Director, Investor AB, Stockholm
    C. Fred Bergsten, Director, Institute for International Economics, Washington DC; former U.S. Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs
    Georges Berthoin, International Honorary Chairman, European Movement; Honorary Chairman, The Jean Monnet Association; Honorary European Chairman, The Trilateral Commission
    Jorge Braga de Macedo, President, Tropical Research Institute, Lisbon; Special Advisor to the Secretary General, Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), Paris; Professor of Economics, Nova University at Lisbon; Chairman, Forum Portugal Global; former Minister of Finance
    Zbigniew Brzezinski, Counselor, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Washington DC; Robert Osgood Professor of American Foreign Affairs, Paul Nitze School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University; former Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
    Fran??ois Bujon de l'Estang, Ambassadeur de France; Chairman, Citigroup France, Paris; former Ambassador to the United States
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    Bill Emmott, Editor, The Economist, London
    Nemesio Fernandez-Cuesta, Executive Director of Upstream, Repsol-YPF; former Chairman, Prensa Espa??ola, Madrid
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    Otto Graf Lambsdorff, Partner, Wessing Lawyers, D??sseldorf; Chairman, Friedrich Naumann Foundation, Berlin; former Member of German Bundestag; Honorary Chairman, Free Democratic Party; former Federal Minister of Economy; former President of the Liberal International; Honorary European Chairman, The Trilateral Commission, Paris
    Lee Hong-Koo, Chairman, Seoul Forum for International Affairs; former Prime Minister of Korea; former Ambassador to the United Kingdom and the United States
    Cees Maas, Vice Chairman and Chief Financial Officer of the ING Group, Amsterdam; former Treasurer of the Dutch Government
    Roy MacLaren, former Canadian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom; former Canadian Minister of International Trade; Toronto, ON
    Minoru Makihara, Senior Corporate Advisor, Mitsubishi Corporation, Tokyo
    Sir Deryck C. Maughan, former Vice Chairman, Citigroup, New York
    Kiichi Miyazawa, former Member of the House of Representatives; former Finance Minister of Japan, former Prime Minister of Japan, Tokyo
    Minoru Murofushi, Counselor, ITOCHU Corporation, Tokyo
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    Silvio Scaglia, Managing Director, Fastweb, Milan; former Managing Director, Omnitel
    Guido Schmidt-Chiari, Chairman, Constantia Group; former Chairman, Creditanstalt Bankverein, Vienna
    Carlo Secchi, Professor of European Economic Policy, Bocconi University, Milan; former Member of the Italian Senate and of the European Parliament
    T??ger Seidenfaden, Editor-in-Chief, Politiken, Copenhagen
    Thorvald Stoltenberg, President, Norwegian Red Cross, Oslo; former Co-Chairman (UN) of the Steering Committee of the International Conference on Former Yugoslavia; former Foreign Minister of Norway; former UN High Commissioner for Refugees
    Petar Stoyanov, President, Centre for Political Dialogue, Sofia; former President of Bulgaria
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