The guy was employing you. You play what he wants you to play
I disagree, a bar/club owner should hire you to play, based on your style. Its not your fault if he gets it wrong.
It's no good hiring a carpenter if you need a plumber.
But if you make a mistake and hire a plumber, no sense in keeping him on either. I think that in this case, Gnat is better off free to find a better gig for himself. When I worked in the temporary staffing field, we would call this 'not a good fit'.
It's the same situation here at this club I DJ at. My man Blake does Fridays and gets the place totally hype on hip hop, the place gets packed, with a line out the door and everything. Then the owner shows up, gets mad, says "NO HIP HOP. Play house." So Blake does that, and the dancefloor clears like the red sea. Of course when the owner leaves, Blake puts the hip hop back on, the dancefloor gets busy again. BTW the "offensive" hip hop in question is usually hardcore gangster rap like.... Salt'n'Pepa "Push It."
I understand about playing what the owner wants cos they're the boss, but 95% of clubowners have no idea how to run a club, and their pay for DJs is crap anyway. So I have no problem with DJs giving 'em a piece of their mind and just doing what they wanna do, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S IN THE CLUB'S BEST INTEREST.
I think that's great if there is a reciprical relationship and the club owner is looking for feedback from the DJ and vice versa....but some situations just have to rise or fall on their own before people figure out what's 'best for the club'.
The club where we do our Jazz night is a lounge that becomes a party spot at any given time, and the owners only real directive is that the DJs try to keep the people in the place so the joint is live. But if they hire you on a Wed nite to play indie rock, they will let you play whatever the fuck indie rock you think is appropriate. Same goes with Hip Hop, jazz, whatever else. Lucky when the owners and managers leave you alone to do yer thing.
But if you make a mistake and hire a plumber, no sense in keeping him on either. I think that in this case, Gnat is better off free to find a better gig for himself. When I worked in the temporary staffing field, we would call this 'not a good fit'.
EXACTLY
but even more accurately dude hired a carpenter and told him "i dont want you messing with my plumbing" and then came in to find the dude messing with his plumbing.. that's what happened here.
and the real question is why did he bring his plumbing supplies???
My last gig was a favor for a friend. It was for a 10 year olds birthday. Some kid of a Dogtown, Zboy. His mom kept demanding I play the "birthday song" and "Shake that Azz". The kids wanted the "shit don't stink" song. Ever since then i've turned down gig after gig. Not that it wasn't fun and I got payed good, just that the club drama can burn a mufugga out.
I ready to jump back in. Had a two year hiatus and I'm back. Ready for another 10 years of this shit. I really don't have many other skills.
maybe you're running things off serato in which case my question is moot.
But I had it on vinyl too! The deal is that ALL the DJs play hip-hop when he's not looking...there's an understanding with the doorman, the bartenders...everyone is in the loop except him...
It was never a tough crowd, so clearly dude is worried about something that's not there.
That's what's up... ...and I never said he was racist--but why wouldn't you play what people want if that keeps them happy and drinking and making him PHAT change? He's scared of something so read between the lines...
awwww, my old neighborhood. i played there a few times. a few sucky things about that place. no dancefloor. the "dj booth" consists of a couch and a coffee table. no beer on tap.
on the plus side, they have a fine selection of scotch whiskeys. the bartenders were cool enough to pour me a few. and, yes, all the staff wants dancey shit like hip hop so you can bring that down. i never met the owner but i only played there like twice.
oh, and the alley was my spot. rod dibble on the ivories and they had this waitress that was always strung out on crank which was pretty funny.
ps i found a lloyd mcneil treasures around the corner for $4.
I met probably the funnest 3-month fling evar there.
the alley was my spot
at first I thought you meant that parking lot... lol... I remember my landlord told me about the alley and recommended it because "They have $5 steaks! $5 STEAKS!!!"
I remember back in the early nineties when no SF venue would hold a hip-hop show. Then they let Notorious BIG in and one of his boys shot a gun in the place (supposedly). A lot of the rap paranoia may be left over from those days. It is Oakland after all. A very rough town.
I remember back in the early nineties when no SF venue would hold a hip-hop show. Then they let Notorious BIG in and one of his boys shot a gun in the place (supposedly). A lot of the rap paranoia may be left over from those days. It is Oakland after all. A very rough town.
What is it then when hip-hop can be played in SF venues with white/asian people but if Black people attend then there has to be a silly dress code and no hip-hop? I could go to Milk in a Dickies suit with rags hanging out of my ears and listen to "TOWN SHIT" and "SUPERHYPHY" but in Oakland I can't wear my fitted.
I remember back in the early nineties when no SF venue would hold a hip-hop show. Then they let Notorious BIG in and one of his boys shot a gun in the place (supposedly). A lot of the rap paranoia may be left over from those days. It is Oakland after all. A very rough town.
What is it then when hip-hop can be played in SF venues with white/asian people but if Black people attend then there has to be a silly dress code and no hip-hop? I could go to Milk in a Dickies suit with rags hanging out of my ears and listen to "TOWN SHIT" and "SUPERHYPHY" but in Oakland I can't wear my fitted.
this is only true of certian venues, that stuff does get played elsewhere
You don't go to work at Wal-Mart, mark up all their products 10%, and justify your actions by saying, "Well, you guys were putting all the Main St. stores out of business. I've just made the town happy," and expect to still have a job.
ummm, I really don't get your point...WalMart takes up Mainstreet's business by buying shit in volume such that they can underprice all mom and pop places...WalMart Sucks...
Right, but you wouldn't get a job there and expect to set your own rules. That's not how it works.
I'm not arguing the merits of your argument, I'm just say that the guy is paying you to do a job. He already told you not to play hip hop. Why the surprise?
I remember back in the early nineties when no SF venue would hold a hip-hop show. Then they let Notorious BIG in and one of his boys shot a gun in the place (supposedly). A lot of the rap paranoia may be left over from those days. It is Oakland after all. A very rough town.
What is it then when hip-hop can be played in SF venues with white/asian people but if Black people attend then there has to be a silly dress code and no hip-hop? I could go to Milk in a Dickies suit with rags hanging out of my ears and listen to "TOWN SHIT" and "SUPERHYPHY" but in Oakland I can't wear my fitted.
this is only true of certian venues, that stuff does get played elsewhere
No, I know it gets played elsewhere, I'm just saying................... more about the dress code.
He already told you not to play hip hop. Why the surprise?
I wasn't surprised...but I thought that it might be surprising to some that a club owner could be this obtuse and unaware of his clientelle...that was my point...
besides he was lame: that's my main point.
Oh, and I got to professionally tell someone off...that was fun...
JEEZ...for someone with an inherently "rebellious" name like Grafwritah, you sure do side with THE MAN...
You don't go to work at Wal-Mart, mark up all their products 10%, and justify your actions by saying, "Well, you guys were putting all the Main St. stores out of business. I've just made the town happy," and expect to still have a job.
ummm, I really don't get your point...WalMart takes up Mainstreet's business by buying shit in volume such that they can underprice all mom and pop places...WalMart Sucks...
Right, but you wouldn't get a job there and expect to set your own rules. That's not how it works.
I'm not arguing the merits of your argument, I'm just say that the guy is paying you to do a job. He already told you not to play hip hop. Why the surprise?
To be fair, though, it's not as though these 'jobs' are analogous outside of showing up, clocking the required time and getting paid.
Being a DJ is more akin to being an independent contractor/designer. Your 'boss' is actually a 'client' and part of WHY he hires you is to be informed and inform HIM on how things need to be done. Obviously it's best when the two parties meet in the middle and the CLIENT needs the ability to say, "I want your best ideas, but here is the big picture" and go from there. The DJ needs to be able to either work with that big picture and sell the ideas that may be out of favor, or get to his next paying client.
Being a DJ is more akin to being an independent contractor/designer. Your 'boss' is actually a 'client' and part of WHY he hires you is to be informed and inform HIM on how things need to be done.
Birdman, you are my official SS attorney...now how many hours did you log for that arguement? I'll pay you the $50 I made for the 4.5 hour gig I did last night...
Being a DJ is more akin to being an independent contractor/designer. Your 'boss' is actually a 'client' and part of WHY he hires you is to be informed and inform HIM on how things need to be done.
Birdman, you are my official SS attorney...now how many hours did you log for that arguement? I'll pay you the $50 I made for the 4.5 hour gig I did last night...
Wow, sounds like the same DJ rate in SF as in DC.
Hold him to ransom, tell him you'll only play non-hip hop for more $$$.
1. The owner of the club was not thinking like a business man, rather he has a hang up and its gonna affect his money making ability.
2. Grafwritah did make a valid point in saying that the club owner did lay down a certain rule and you violated it. That being said I don't think his end action was that much of a shock to you. Its his club, his rules, and no matter how dumb they are he still gets to set them for you and any other DJ he brings in.
3. Race does not seem to be an issue and I think its pretty ridiculous that it keeps coming up in arguments on soulstrut. It really cheapens the value of the accusation and starts turning those who constantly use it into the boys who cried wolf.
Gnat[/b]: It seems like this was more a fun thing for you than a business/ wage-earning thing for you. I'm sure you'll find a better place to spin at and have a much better time spinning there.
Eff it. Racist club-owners aren't worth working for anyway.
-e
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Kingman is black.
What that sentence should say is:
Micro-managing/stingy-ass club owners aren't worth working for anyway.
I've played there a few times. Just not my vibe. For one, there's no dance floor (hence the "lounge"). I like playing stuff other than hip-hop, but I don't like not being able to play hip-hop. And every time I've played there, someone's requested hip-hop. It's just embarrassing to tell them, "Well, um...we're not allowed to play that."
Just trust the DJs to please the people that are there/come to hear them.
OH SO YOU WHEREN'T FEELING THE DJ TAG-TEAM ACTION THAT NITE!?!?!??!
CUNTFUCKWHORESLUT...,,,,,>......
But Seriously...I'll be there I think the 19th of December with the other Massive Selector dudes. I'll play even more soul records in honor of our boy Gnat.
You dudes ever think he doesn't want to hear rap music just because he doesn't want to hear rap music at this own club?[/b]
I really doubt the dude has a problem with "the black element" since a lot of the folks that I know who play there play a lot of "black music" there (i.e. soul and reggae) and I remember seeing a good share of blacks there hanging out or working there ..oh and uhhh...it's in Oakland as well.
little dudes so sensitive right now.
What if dude was getting some "WE'RE LEAVING IF WE DON'T PLAY 'MY HUMPS' RIGHT NOW!!" type of shit?
but co-sign on the lame ass "micro-manage" dj dudes. The only thing worse is people in the crowd who do that shit. Especially women when the try and bring the whole crew of lame-asses up in the booth or have 'em take turns.
He already told you not to play hip hop. Why the surprise?
I wasn't surprised...but I thought that it might be surprising to some that a club owner could be this obtuse and unaware of his clientelle...that was my point...
besides he was lame: that's my main point.
Oh, and I got to professionally tell someone off...that was fun...
JEEZ...for someone with an inherently "rebellious" name like Grafwritah, you sure do side with THE MAN...
Yeah, but that's cool thing about owning your own business. You get to make your own rules (within reason, of course).
If he's so stupid his business will fail and you will have the last laugh.
Yeah, I know, I do sound like the man. Business school will do that to you.
Comments
But if you make a mistake and hire a plumber, no sense in keeping him on either.
I think that in this case, Gnat is better off free to find a better gig for himself. When I worked in the temporary staffing field, we would call this 'not a good fit'.
I think that's great if there is a reciprical relationship and the club owner is looking for feedback from the DJ and vice versa....but some situations just have to rise or fall on their own before people figure out what's 'best for the club'.
The club where we do our Jazz night is a lounge that becomes a party spot at any given time, and the owners only real directive is that the DJs try to keep the people in the place so the joint is live. But if they hire you on a Wed nite to play indie rock, they will let you play whatever the fuck indie rock you think is appropriate. Same goes with Hip Hop, jazz, whatever else. Lucky when the owners and managers leave you alone to do yer thing.
EXACTLY
but even more accurately dude hired a carpenter and told him "i dont want you messing with my plumbing" and then came in to find the dude messing with his plumbing.. that's what happened here.
and the real question is why did he bring his plumbing supplies???
i've never taken a gig where i had to play a certain genre or anything..
I ready to jump back in. Had a two year hiatus and I'm back. Ready for another 10 years of this shit. I really don't have many other skills.
Yeah.. Send all[/b] requests his way!
Also, make sure you get the owners permission to scratch ur nuts from now on also.
But I had it on vinyl too! The deal is that ALL the DJs play hip-hop when he's not looking...there's an understanding with the doorman, the bartenders...everyone is in the loop except him...
That's what's up...
...and I never said he was racist--but why wouldn't you play what people want if that keeps them happy and drinking and making him PHAT change? He's scared of something so read between the lines...
you're wrong, but his race is irrelevant...
Thanks for the correction. I've never met the guy, so I guess I heard wrong.
You are also correct in stating that he is lame. And it's very true that everyone there plays some hip-hop when dude's not around.
on the plus side, they have a fine selection of scotch whiskeys. the bartenders were cool enough to pour me a few. and, yes, all the staff wants dancey shit like hip hop so you can bring that down. i never met the owner but i only played there like twice.
oh, and the alley was my spot. rod dibble on the ivories and they had this waitress that was always strung out on crank which was pretty funny.
ps
i found a lloyd mcneil treasures around the corner for $4.
I met probably the funnest 3-month fling evar there.
at first I thought you meant that parking lot... lol... I remember my landlord told me about the alley and recommended it because "They have $5 steaks! $5 STEAKS!!!"
What is it then when hip-hop can be played in SF venues with white/asian people but if Black people attend then there has to be a silly dress code and no hip-hop? I could go to Milk in a Dickies suit with rags hanging out of my ears and listen to "TOWN SHIT" and "SUPERHYPHY" but in Oakland I can't wear my fitted.
yes plaese
i went to the white horse once on rap night. i will not lie. i was scurrrrrdd.
Right, but you wouldn't get a job there and expect to set your own rules. That's not how it works.
I'm not arguing the merits of your argument, I'm just say that the guy is paying you to do a job. He already told you not to play hip hop. Why the surprise?
No, I know it gets played elsewhere, I'm just saying................... more about the dress code.
I wasn't surprised...but I thought that it might be surprising to some that a club owner could be this obtuse and unaware of his clientelle...that was my point...
besides he was lame: that's my main point.
Oh, and I got to professionally tell someone off...that was fun...
JEEZ...for someone with an inherently "rebellious" name like Grafwritah, you sure do side with THE MAN...
To be fair, though, it's not as though these 'jobs' are analogous outside of showing up, clocking the required time and getting paid.
Being a DJ is more akin to being an independent contractor/designer. Your 'boss' is actually a 'client' and part of WHY he hires you is to be informed and inform HIM on how things need to be done. Obviously it's best when the two parties meet in the middle and the CLIENT needs the ability to say, "I want your best ideas, but here is the big picture" and go from there. The DJ needs to be able to either work with that big picture and sell the ideas that may be out of favor, or get to his next paying client.
Wow, sounds like the same DJ rate in SF as in DC.
Hold him to ransom, tell him you'll only play non-hip hop for more $$$.
1. The owner of the club was not thinking like a business man, rather he has a hang up and its gonna affect his money making ability.
2. Grafwritah did make a valid point in saying that the club owner did lay down a certain rule and you violated it. That being said I don't think his end action was that much of a shock to you. Its his club, his rules, and no matter how dumb they are he still gets to set them for you and any other DJ he brings in.
3. Race does not seem to be an issue and I think its pretty ridiculous that it keeps coming up in arguments on soulstrut. It really cheapens the value of the accusation and starts turning those who constantly use it into the boys who cried wolf.
Gnat[/b]: It seems like this was more a fun thing for you than a business/ wage-earning thing for you. I'm sure you'll find a better place to spin at and have a much better time spinning there.
OH SO YOU WHEREN'T FEELING THE DJ TAG-TEAM ACTION THAT NITE!?!?!??!
CUNTFUCKWHORESLUT...,,,,,>......
But Seriously...I'll be there I think the 19th of December with the other Massive Selector dudes. I'll play even more soul records in honor of our boy Gnat.
You dudes ever think he doesn't want to hear rap music just because he doesn't want to hear rap music at this own club?[/b]
I really doubt the dude has a problem with "the black element" since a lot of the folks that I know who play there play a lot of "black music" there (i.e. soul and reggae) and I remember seeing a good share of blacks there hanging out or working there ..oh and uhhh...it's in Oakland as well.
little dudes so sensitive right now.
What if dude was getting some "WE'RE LEAVING IF WE DON'T PLAY 'MY HUMPS' RIGHT NOW!!" type of shit?
but co-sign on the lame ass "micro-manage" dj dudes. The only thing worse is people in the crowd who do that shit. Especially women when the try and bring the whole crew of lame-asses up in the booth or have 'em take turns.
Yeah, but that's cool thing about owning your own business. You get to make your own rules (within reason, of course).
If he's so stupid his business will fail and you will have the last laugh.
Yeah, I know, I do sound like the man. Business school will do that to you.
Who you calling little dude homeslice?
Don't you have a Lucy Pearl meets Ya Boy mashup to work on?
Mashup + Ya Boy= Blogosphere Cat Nip.
I'm actually about to make a Lucy Pearl post right now, PayCheeks.
"There goes that girl named Dawnie"