isn't there a button on the mpc renaissance for "vintage sound" that alone worries me... As for the guy who said he was about to cop a Maschine, i'd also hold off on that. The Maschine is good if you're using their sounds. The library that comes with it is full, punchy, and sounds great. Sampling into it.. paper thin. I tried several things including using my pc to beef up samples and it's still paper thin. There's gotta be a better way.
isn't there a button on the mpc renaissance for "vintage sound" that alone worries me... As for the guy who said he was about to cop a Maschine, i'd also hold off on that. The Maschine is good if you're using their sounds. The library that comes with it is full, punchy, and sounds great. Sampling into it.. paper thin. I tried several things including using my pc to beef up samples and it's still paper thin. There's gotta be a better way.
That's all down to your soundcard surely? I use Maschine and it sounds fine, I used to use an mpc 2000 and thought that sounded really thin so I ended up just using it to trigger my Emu samplers. I got the Fireface 800 to use with my computer and that gave me a comparable sound to what I was used to.
1) Is that the best sounding beat you can make with this - the flagship beat?
2) Has flying on airplanes been such a hindrance to making teh beatz for the producers of the world that finally a viable solution has arrived?
3) The video claims the MPC FLY promotes freedom. I am curious as to how it accomplishes this - is there an Akai super pac I am not aware of?
2) Has flying on airplanes been such a hindrance to making teh beatz for the producers of the world that finally a viable solution has arrived?
That's the funniest part. It's like wish fulfillment. "When you become a super-ultra-mega-hot producer, who flies to a different country every day to produce the hottest artists in the world, aren't you going to want a machine you can make beats with while you stretch out in your Singapore Air first-class seat-bed? Live that life!"
So, 4YearGraduate, did you get to play with this at namm and what are your thoughts on it?
I did.
Sorry for the late response, I've been on tour since namm.
Here are my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt - I have been using an MPC3000 since 1994, and was severely disappointment by what the tempest became:
I showed up at the Akai/Numark booth ready to get a full demo. I was dressed in what used to be appropriate for NAMM, a professional business convention which I have attended for 14 years now. After stepping up to the MPC and seeing it in person, I tried to flag a rep to give me a full demo on the Ren. I was ignored. I was continually ignored by every rep who would drop everything and run over to any "urban" looking dude who would walk through the booth. Finally I asked to speak to the head of design and someone pulled him for me. He walked over and instead of looking at me while I was talking to him he kept his eyes on my badge, in an attempt to figure out who i was and whether or not I was worth talking to. He was also distracted by tatted two kids in fitted hats and Kreashawn glasses who meandered into the booth. I asked if I could come back at a better time when i could have his undivided attention and we scheduled a demo for two hours later.
I returned two hours later and we got down to the demo - he started by telling me how you could bang out phat beats on it etc. I stopped him and explained I had specific questions about the interface, legacy support and the OS and how it would interface with a DAW. oh. So the guy was the product development manager. At every opportunity during our talk he dissed the MPC3000 and explained how much better the new one was. I thought that was in bad taste as did the person I was with because, well, they basically copied the physical design of the 3K for the new Ren version. I digress. From what I could gather the system consists of two parts:
1) The software - this is where the sound engine, the processing, file management etc happens. This is pretty much what you are paying for. The sequencer is integrated into this and everything is happening here. Everything from the actual physical units is just entering data into this application. As such, the 3 physical models, the Ren, the Studio and The Fly are all basically controllers/dongles for this. This, as far as I can tell, will have positives and negatives. You could start a beat at home and take it on the road using the fly, transferring back and forth between units because the software is identical. This also raises the vary interesting question of whether they will release JUST the software in the future or if there will be cracks available on the net.
2) The controller - choosing between the Ren, the Studio and the Fly, all of which are basically one part controller and one part dongle. What are the differences between these units? Well - this is the crux really.
*The Ren is based on the physical design of the 3000 and appears to have a solid metal chasis and armrest like the 3K and 60, but is smaller. The Ren has a stereo input so it is basically a soundcard as well with 2 in/2out on it so you can sample through this, via core audio, to the Software program. The Ren is the only controller with the vintage modelling button, MPC3000, MPC60 etc. Are these hosted in the actual unit? No. The unit (like a dongle) just unlocks some dsp that exists in the software to enable this. So the capability is in the software already and it's probably just a shitty sounding bit shifter and filter. Will it sound like a MPC60 or 3K or Sp1200 like they claim? It depends if you actually use one. I do and it didn't to my ears AT ALL but YMMV. It was obvious to me that the product development team are not users of these classic units either, more on that later. The nice thing about the Ren, if you are using a 3K or a 60, is that the transport buttons (play, rec, rec ovrdbd, etc) are similar in feel to the classic units. A small touch but nice nevertheless. The light up buttons and knobs are whatever. They are assignable, yadda yadda yadda. To me, the biggest "cool thing" change in the software is the ability to have unlimited cut off groups - if you are used to the 3k then you know that you can only have one pad cut off 2 more pads, this can be limiting when chopping up drumbreaks. Again though, these software changes or upgrades exist for all the versions so the only thing exclusive to the the Ren is 1) the soundcard in/out options 2) Access to the vintage modes (dsp based in the software).
*The Studio is much smaller and very slim in what felt like a plastic housing. The build quality felt VERY cheap. The transport buttons and all of the buttons are different quality and IMHO feels like you might get two years of daily use out of it TOPS before it breaks. I think it's important to note that this unit, without the 2 channels of AD/DA is basically a controller, and not a very solid one at that. It is basically a dongle for the software with a transport and pads. I didn't get an answer on what kind of warranty will be offered on the unit. They are marketing the knobs as "low profile" but the feel is very very poor. Honestly I could not imagine working on the unit for hours at a time. The Ren basically wins hands down in this category. The brushed aluminum top felt like it could peel right off. Again, YMMV but i was NOT impressed. The software is the same as the other units.
*The Fly was in a glass case so I couldn't mess with it but i think it is seriously limited in terms of what it can and cant do. I couldnt touch it but, it seems like idea for a hobbyist or constant traveller but it is not a professional studio device and I don't think it is an option as an OR to the other versions, it might work best as paired with the full version somewhere else.
So after I asked a bunch of questions like will it support legacy .ALL, .SEQ, .PGM files (yes it will!) the guy starts bangin out a "funky beat" for me which i assume is back to the typical demo. The dude couldn't play a beat if his life depended on it. I asked kindly if i could get on the pads and IMMEDIATELY, IMMEDIATELY, IMMEDIATELY felt a latency (lag) between hitting the buttons and the sound coming out of the speakers - and also it showing up in the sequencer. I stopped and said, "umm, there's latency". "No theres not." he replied. Yes, actually there is. I use one almost every day I responded. He said something to the effect of, Well, if it's latent don't you think everyone else would notice it (while looking around at the keith urbans). Ok, look I said, You can say what you want but i am VERY familiar with what you are trying to copy here (3K) and it is latent in a very noticeable way. When i hit the button there is a few millisecond delay between the button being pressed and the sequencer marking the sound and the engine playing the sound. Which means that you are shit out of luck if you want to program sans Tempo Correct and you actually have rhythm. Oh - he replies. Yeah, well, we are working on the midi interface and will be implementing a faster protocol, this is just a demo unit, I mean, we are going to tighten that up. You know how that goes right? Ok word I reply. Dude was a straight assclown.
Soooooo. here's my bottom line. It's a good idea but the controllers are basically just that. Controllers and dongles. Are they worth paying $1299 for? Depends on what you hope to get out of it. It's scary that a used 3000 is about 1K right now in comparison. If there was a way to interface a 3K with a Computer for file archiving you wouldn't need any of this. If Akai didn't abandon their flagship products decades ago we woudn't be here. If the software gets cracked there are MUCH better controllers out there to use. The product team behind this didn't instill alot of faith in me. They are making a product for their vision of what hip hop and dance producers need, without actually being that. They are basically presenting a hyped up software version of a product from 20 years ago. Kewl. If you decide to implement this in a professional environment here is my idea for the best way:
Get a real convertor set (apogee, Metric halo, Prism, Mytek, Lavry, etc.) and use that for sample and playback. Skip the shitty conversion in the Ren, but get either the Studio or the Ren, depending on the baller level, just to unlock the software and for ergonomics. Will I get it? Yeah, probably get the Studio and try to map my existing MPC 3k as a midi controller for the software. Is it better the FL or MAschine or anything else? no, probably not. Honestly. Another prosumer move from Akai.
As a sidenote, and if anyone from Akai is reading this, here's a couple of notes from the desk of thes one:
1) Good producers come in all shapes sizes colors and ages. Don't judge a book by its cover at the booth.
2) Hire someone to consult who ACTUALLY has experience with these units. Serato has done this to great success. Dj Premier or hell, maybe bring back Roger Lynn. Don't be cheap. Your product designers have no rhythm.
3) Real songs and beats are intended to be made on these units, so design a version that is expensive but built for the ages, like the 3K. 2 channels of ad and da are NOT enough for a REAL studio. 8 or 16 on the DA or better yet a wordclock bnc input and a lightpipe output would be a real step forward. Not everyone wants to aspire to be a guitar center bedroom producer. This is an instrument for some of us, and we demand a quality instrument, not a toy. I don't need my pads to light up. I need them to work in 6 years.
4) If you plan on abandoning the software in a year or two like you did to the 3K OS upgrades, you should be forthcoming about that. $1299 isn't chump change.
5 and most importantly) All of the classic sampling drum machines were made for a different use than hip hop and we adapted production styles to the limitations the machines presented us. The filtering, the swing, etc, was all an extension of hip hop's ability to to take an existing technology and freak it. If you think you know what "we" need, you have already lost. Make a new innovative product that succeeds on a general creative and music level and then let us "freak" it. This attempt to market it to "urban" is corny at best - especially considering this isn't really any different from the 3K OS from 1994. Get to work on something new. please and thank you.
Thank you thes. Wish they would do this right. At least I won't waste my money. Looks like Maschine is a better (and cheaper) route if you want to try going software. And I still have my MPC2000+SP combo when I want it.
If you think you know what "we" need, you have already lost. Make a new innovative product that succeeds on a general creative and music level and then let us "freak" it. This attempt to market it to "urban" is corny at best -
So true. I feel ableton live is doing its own thing and developing the way we make music with electronics.
so who is using a renaissance or studio and likes it?
I really want these new models to be the solution to many
of my frustrations working with the xl but thes' review is very sobering.
have any other strutters tried these out and can say more positive things about them?
I have the Ren, after being offered an opportunity to pick one up on a wholesale deal thru a friend. To be honest, i never really have used the MPC in the past (2000, 3000, etc) so I dont have much to compare it to (I always used an ASR10 as my outboard, last time I used an MPC was the 60 lol)
So far I have been using it mostly as a plugin in PT. i do wish that - to Thes' point - it just mapped straight out in the DAW but I can get all my tracks bussed to separate tracks one by one, and I feel like there might actually be a way to bus them internally on MPC (the plugin, that is) but I honestly haven't spent a lot of time playing with it. I wish it could work as a standalone, when you hear something and have an idea to bang out, firing up the computer and so on can be a boner killer. But that said it is pretty easy to get going.
Some of the software capabilities are cool. The hardware is great. I dunno, I think if you are looking at something like Maschine, or you are already working in Ableton, the MPC software is duplication with a nice controller for a hefty price tag. I wouldnt have paid full price I dont think. I dont think the software breaks any new ground.
I'm still having some midi mapping issues, might have to bring in my old midi patchbay to handle it. The software is definitely lacking, but they've already made some decent updates so I'm hopeful.
thank you. Yeah I messed with a ren a bit the other day at a local shop
and I kinda figured that I'd probably still need another DAW to export tracks to.
I thought that would be the big thing about the renaissance, that you get a complete fusion of the hardware and a DAW.
For example I couldn't believe that it wouldn't let me assign specific pads/sounds to individual tracks if recorded
at the same time. like playing a drum set and have separate tracks for kick snare hats etc..
I'm not sure if I just didn't get how to do it but why would they create a software like this and not
include that as an option?
Comments
That's all down to your soundcard surely? I use Maschine and it sounds fine, I used to use an mpc 2000 and thought that sounded really thin so I ended up just using it to trigger my Emu samplers. I got the Fireface 800 to use with my computer and that gave me a comparable sound to what I was used to.
1) Is that the best sounding beat you can make with this - the flagship beat?
2) Has flying on airplanes been such a hindrance to making teh beatz for the producers of the world that finally a viable solution has arrived?
3) The video claims the MPC FLY promotes freedom. I am curious as to how it accomplishes this - is there an Akai super pac I am not aware of?
That's the funniest part. It's like wish fulfillment. "When you become a super-ultra-mega-hot producer, who flies to a different country every day to produce the hottest artists in the world, aren't you going to want a machine you can make beats with while you stretch out in your Singapore Air first-class seat-bed? Live that life!"
WHY YOU ARRESTING ME ?!!
incredible
I did.
Sorry for the late response, I've been on tour since namm.
Here are my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt - I have been using an MPC3000 since 1994, and was severely disappointment by what the tempest became:
I showed up at the Akai/Numark booth ready to get a full demo. I was dressed in what used to be appropriate for NAMM, a professional business convention which I have attended for 14 years now. After stepping up to the MPC and seeing it in person, I tried to flag a rep to give me a full demo on the Ren. I was ignored. I was continually ignored by every rep who would drop everything and run over to any "urban" looking dude who would walk through the booth. Finally I asked to speak to the head of design and someone pulled him for me. He walked over and instead of looking at me while I was talking to him he kept his eyes on my badge, in an attempt to figure out who i was and whether or not I was worth talking to. He was also distracted by tatted two kids in fitted hats and Kreashawn glasses who meandered into the booth. I asked if I could come back at a better time when i could have his undivided attention and we scheduled a demo for two hours later.
I returned two hours later and we got down to the demo - he started by telling me how you could bang out phat beats on it etc. I stopped him and explained I had specific questions about the interface, legacy support and the OS and how it would interface with a DAW. oh. So the guy was the product development manager. At every opportunity during our talk he dissed the MPC3000 and explained how much better the new one was. I thought that was in bad taste as did the person I was with because, well, they basically copied the physical design of the 3K for the new Ren version. I digress. From what I could gather the system consists of two parts:
1) The software - this is where the sound engine, the processing, file management etc happens. This is pretty much what you are paying for. The sequencer is integrated into this and everything is happening here. Everything from the actual physical units is just entering data into this application. As such, the 3 physical models, the Ren, the Studio and The Fly are all basically controllers/dongles for this. This, as far as I can tell, will have positives and negatives. You could start a beat at home and take it on the road using the fly, transferring back and forth between units because the software is identical. This also raises the vary interesting question of whether they will release JUST the software in the future or if there will be cracks available on the net.
2) The controller - choosing between the Ren, the Studio and the Fly, all of which are basically one part controller and one part dongle. What are the differences between these units? Well - this is the crux really.
*The Ren is based on the physical design of the 3000 and appears to have a solid metal chasis and armrest like the 3K and 60, but is smaller. The Ren has a stereo input so it is basically a soundcard as well with 2 in/2out on it so you can sample through this, via core audio, to the Software program. The Ren is the only controller with the vintage modelling button, MPC3000, MPC60 etc. Are these hosted in the actual unit? No. The unit (like a dongle) just unlocks some dsp that exists in the software to enable this. So the capability is in the software already and it's probably just a shitty sounding bit shifter and filter. Will it sound like a MPC60 or 3K or Sp1200 like they claim? It depends if you actually use one. I do and it didn't to my ears AT ALL but YMMV. It was obvious to me that the product development team are not users of these classic units either, more on that later. The nice thing about the Ren, if you are using a 3K or a 60, is that the transport buttons (play, rec, rec ovrdbd, etc) are similar in feel to the classic units. A small touch but nice nevertheless. The light up buttons and knobs are whatever. They are assignable, yadda yadda yadda. To me, the biggest "cool thing" change in the software is the ability to have unlimited cut off groups - if you are used to the 3k then you know that you can only have one pad cut off 2 more pads, this can be limiting when chopping up drumbreaks. Again though, these software changes or upgrades exist for all the versions so the only thing exclusive to the the Ren is 1) the soundcard in/out options 2) Access to the vintage modes (dsp based in the software).
*The Studio is much smaller and very slim in what felt like a plastic housing. The build quality felt VERY cheap. The transport buttons and all of the buttons are different quality and IMHO feels like you might get two years of daily use out of it TOPS before it breaks. I think it's important to note that this unit, without the 2 channels of AD/DA is basically a controller, and not a very solid one at that. It is basically a dongle for the software with a transport and pads. I didn't get an answer on what kind of warranty will be offered on the unit. They are marketing the knobs as "low profile" but the feel is very very poor. Honestly I could not imagine working on the unit for hours at a time. The Ren basically wins hands down in this category. The brushed aluminum top felt like it could peel right off. Again, YMMV but i was NOT impressed. The software is the same as the other units.
*The Fly was in a glass case so I couldn't mess with it but i think it is seriously limited in terms of what it can and cant do. I couldnt touch it but, it seems like idea for a hobbyist or constant traveller but it is not a professional studio device and I don't think it is an option as an OR to the other versions, it might work best as paired with the full version somewhere else.
So after I asked a bunch of questions like will it support legacy .ALL, .SEQ, .PGM files (yes it will!) the guy starts bangin out a "funky beat" for me which i assume is back to the typical demo. The dude couldn't play a beat if his life depended on it. I asked kindly if i could get on the pads and IMMEDIATELY, IMMEDIATELY, IMMEDIATELY felt a latency (lag) between hitting the buttons and the sound coming out of the speakers - and also it showing up in the sequencer. I stopped and said, "umm, there's latency". "No theres not." he replied. Yes, actually there is. I use one almost every day I responded. He said something to the effect of, Well, if it's latent don't you think everyone else would notice it (while looking around at the keith urbans). Ok, look I said, You can say what you want but i am VERY familiar with what you are trying to copy here (3K) and it is latent in a very noticeable way. When i hit the button there is a few millisecond delay between the button being pressed and the sequencer marking the sound and the engine playing the sound. Which means that you are shit out of luck if you want to program sans Tempo Correct and you actually have rhythm. Oh - he replies. Yeah, well, we are working on the midi interface and will be implementing a faster protocol, this is just a demo unit, I mean, we are going to tighten that up. You know how that goes right? Ok word I reply. Dude was a straight assclown.
Soooooo. here's my bottom line. It's a good idea but the controllers are basically just that. Controllers and dongles. Are they worth paying $1299 for? Depends on what you hope to get out of it. It's scary that a used 3000 is about 1K right now in comparison. If there was a way to interface a 3K with a Computer for file archiving you wouldn't need any of this. If Akai didn't abandon their flagship products decades ago we woudn't be here. If the software gets cracked there are MUCH better controllers out there to use. The product team behind this didn't instill alot of faith in me. They are making a product for their vision of what hip hop and dance producers need, without actually being that. They are basically presenting a hyped up software version of a product from 20 years ago. Kewl. If you decide to implement this in a professional environment here is my idea for the best way:
Get a real convertor set (apogee, Metric halo, Prism, Mytek, Lavry, etc.) and use that for sample and playback. Skip the shitty conversion in the Ren, but get either the Studio or the Ren, depending on the baller level, just to unlock the software and for ergonomics. Will I get it? Yeah, probably get the Studio and try to map my existing MPC 3k as a midi controller for the software. Is it better the FL or MAschine or anything else? no, probably not. Honestly. Another prosumer move from Akai.
As a sidenote, and if anyone from Akai is reading this, here's a couple of notes from the desk of thes one:
1) Good producers come in all shapes sizes colors and ages. Don't judge a book by its cover at the booth.
2) Hire someone to consult who ACTUALLY has experience with these units. Serato has done this to great success. Dj Premier or hell, maybe bring back Roger Lynn. Don't be cheap. Your product designers have no rhythm.
3) Real songs and beats are intended to be made on these units, so design a version that is expensive but built for the ages, like the 3K. 2 channels of ad and da are NOT enough for a REAL studio. 8 or 16 on the DA or better yet a wordclock bnc input and a lightpipe output would be a real step forward. Not everyone wants to aspire to be a guitar center bedroom producer. This is an instrument for some of us, and we demand a quality instrument, not a toy. I don't need my pads to light up. I need them to work in 6 years.
4) If you plan on abandoning the software in a year or two like you did to the 3K OS upgrades, you should be forthcoming about that. $1299 isn't chump change.
5 and most importantly) All of the classic sampling drum machines were made for a different use than hip hop and we adapted production styles to the limitations the machines presented us. The filtering, the swing, etc, was all an extension of hip hop's ability to to take an existing technology and freak it. If you think you know what "we" need, you have already lost. Make a new innovative product that succeeds on a general creative and music level and then let us "freak" it. This attempt to market it to "urban" is corny at best - especially considering this isn't really any different from the 3K OS from 1994. Get to work on something new. please and thank you.
/rant
So true. I feel ableton live is doing its own thing and developing the way we make music with electronics.
On the plus side, I guess the SCSI CF reader I bought last year seems to be making more and more sense for the long haul...
so who is using a renaissance or studio and likes it?
I really want these new models to be the solution to many
of my frustrations working with the xl but thes' review is very sobering.
have any other strutters tried these out and can say more positive things about them?
So far I have been using it mostly as a plugin in PT. i do wish that - to Thes' point - it just mapped straight out in the DAW but I can get all my tracks bussed to separate tracks one by one, and I feel like there might actually be a way to bus them internally on MPC (the plugin, that is) but I honestly haven't spent a lot of time playing with it. I wish it could work as a standalone, when you hear something and have an idea to bang out, firing up the computer and so on can be a boner killer. But that said it is pretty easy to get going.
Some of the software capabilities are cool. The hardware is great. I dunno, I think if you are looking at something like Maschine, or you are already working in Ableton, the MPC software is duplication with a nice controller for a hefty price tag. I wouldnt have paid full price I dont think. I dont think the software breaks any new ground.
I'm still having some midi mapping issues, might have to bring in my old midi patchbay to handle it. The software is definitely lacking, but they've already made some decent updates so I'm hopeful.
and I kinda figured that I'd probably still need another DAW to export tracks to.
I thought that would be the big thing about the renaissance, that you get a complete fusion of the hardware and a DAW.
For example I couldn't believe that it wouldn't let me assign specific pads/sounds to individual tracks if recorded
at the same time. like playing a drum set and have separate tracks for kick snare hats etc..
I'm not sure if I just didn't get how to do it but why would they create a software like this and not
include that as an option?