Recording a band - simple Pro Tools setup
Snagglepus
1,756 Posts
I'm looking to put together a very simple Pro Tools setup for my band. We plan to use it simply to do our own tracking (we'll mix in a studio). Our needs are fairly simple. We'd like to be able to record up to four mics at one time. We typically record bass and drums live and then overdub guitars, vocals, etc. Actually, on our most recent recording we only ended up using a single mic for the drums, but 2-3 would cover us in most situations:
(If anyone is curious, the song is a reaction to when our singer was jumped randomly by six kids and put in the hospital with broken cheekbones, swelling in the brain, etc. Fun stuff. I think I wrote about it on here back when it happened).
Anyway, I'm currently looking at this interface (M-Audio Fast Track Ultra):
As for software, it looks like we can get away with just grabbing Pro Tools M-Powered Essential which lets you work with up to 16 tracks. For just tracking, that should be enough for us.
What I'm wondering is if anyone has any experience with M-Audio interfaces. I'm expecting that the build quality will match the price level, but is the sound quality ok? Any others I should consider (given a budget of, say, $300 - $500)?
Also, would I have any problems opening a project file in a full version of Pro Tools? Are there any versions of Pro Tools that would not be able to open a project built in M-Powered Essential? Any advice on that front would be very helpful.
Thanks!
(If anyone is curious, the song is a reaction to when our singer was jumped randomly by six kids and put in the hospital with broken cheekbones, swelling in the brain, etc. Fun stuff. I think I wrote about it on here back when it happened).
Anyway, I'm currently looking at this interface (M-Audio Fast Track Ultra):
As for software, it looks like we can get away with just grabbing Pro Tools M-Powered Essential which lets you work with up to 16 tracks. For just tracking, that should be enough for us.
What I'm wondering is if anyone has any experience with M-Audio interfaces. I'm expecting that the build quality will match the price level, but is the sound quality ok? Any others I should consider (given a budget of, say, $300 - $500)?
Also, would I have any problems opening a project file in a full version of Pro Tools? Are there any versions of Pro Tools that would not be able to open a project built in M-Powered Essential? Any advice on that front would be very helpful.
Thanks!
Comments
What kind of band is it?
What's your goal for the recording (Retail, Demo)?
Where will you be recording?
What type of Microphones will you use?
What do you normally use for recording?
Will you be using a compressor and/or a preamp?
Will you be recording vocals?
- spidey
What kind of band is it?
I guess I'd say post-punk/indie-rock (whatever that means). The song I linked to above would give you a good idea. And that was recorded with a Tascam digital multi-track with crappy mics (SM-57s and 58s). Drums had a single 57.
What's your goal for the recording (Retail, Demo)?
Retail. But we'll just be doing the tracking, as I said. Mixing will be done in a larger studio. And as a sonic reference point, Guided by Voices' Alien Lanes and Bee Thousand are two of our favorite records ... both recorded on crappy 4-tracks. We do believe in "shitty is pretty", or at least "shitty can be pretty". Though, we're not aiming at a crappy sound for the sake of doing so. Our singer has many years of recording experience using crappy equipment. He can make a 4-track sing, to be sure. I'd say we're going for a solid, big sound, but not a super-compressed modern studio sound.
Where will you be recording?
Practice space (a stone basement of an old store ... approx. 20' x 50' with, say, 9' ceilings). Though we're going to try out a cabin (small room with tall ceilings) with great acoustics that has been offered to us.
What type of Microphones will you use?
Primarily our crappy 57s and 58s, though I know we have a stash of better mics (a 52A for kicks/bass, a condenser I can't name off hand). I'm open to suggestions for good, reasonably priced, mics.
What do you normally use for recording?
We recorded our first full-length with a cassette 4-track. Any other self-recorded projects since then have been on the Tascam digital recorder.
Will you be using a compressor and/or a preamp?
I own a single tube mic pre which I'd like to try out on the vocals. Any compression would likely occur in mixing. Depending on the studio, I may opt to record instruments direct and re-amp them. We had good results using that trick at a studio we worked at last year (where we may do our mixing). Here are the toys we can work with there: Strange Weather Gear
Will you be recording vocals?
Yes.
I realize our equipment probably doesn't sound like it would add up to much. The one thing we have going for us is that our singer/songwriter has a great set of ears and is very used to working with crappy setups. But I'd like to invest in a handful of decent mics & mic pres over the coming year. Any suggestions regarding a reasonable Pro-Tools setup and/or gear I should look at would be very helpful. At this point, I'm starting to look at finding a good deal on a Digi 002 console in case we want to do any mixing.
Thanks!
If you are in the New York area I can point you to some great affordable studio...good luck!
We're in CT ... any studio we use would likely be NY based. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
You're definitely correct in saying that the best option is to record in a studio. And we have and will continue to track in studios whenever we can. Strange Weather was great to work in. I'm sure we'll work there again once they've finished their move. And, yeah, there's no way in hell that we can replicate what we were able to do with their collection of mics and mic pres and the sound of their space.
That said, I have been very happy with some of our own recordings for what they're worth (see player below for a shitty is pretty sample). Our needs are fairly simple. I'd just like to get a basic Pro Tools setup going so that any of our own recordings could potentially be worked on in a studio. Maybe our own stuff will just end up being demos or perhaps an occasional 7". It'd just be nice to record in a format that could easily be handed over to a studio or mastering engineer, if need be.
since you have already done studio recording you know what you can get out of that. i was just stressing the importance of good tracking because in the mix you are only limited by your source material...you don't want to spend all of your mixing doing trouble shooting or trying to eq out sounds you don't want.
but at the end of the day...it's the music that matters...if you are laying down some bangers then the mic's will pick that up!
Imagine your album as a photograph of your band, the equipment you use is the camera.
What's more important? The photo? or The Camera?
If you buy the most expensive camera will your picture be better?
I feel that sometimes a certain "Digital clarity" will reveal all of your bands flaws. Recording yourself then becomes more difficult because it's sort of like taking a picture of yourself. Removing the Photographer's eye. It takes a real talent to look at it objectively. The same holds true for having a band try to record itself. The real benefit of working at a studio is having an objective third party perspective. Which leads to a much quicker simple, field tested process. Especially if you work with someone who's opinion you trust.
Step 1. Talk to the band and find a common interest, and then set a goal.
If your band is influenced by the Guided By Voices camp. Use that as a jumping point. GBV are some of the champions of Lo-fi home recording. Your boy Tobin Sprout started with one of these:
And later one of these
He also admits to recording certain parts in a studio, but still using his lo-fi approach in the studio. So we're talking Analog Casette tape recording. If you want to try it out I'd go with the Tascam Porta, because it's cheap, and you'll have less timing issues dumping into protools later.
Working in a Portastudio So you'll lose the benefits of being able to track multiple tracks. Gain the benefits of not having to stare at a computer screen. Takes a real learning curve and a lot of practice to get good with the tape machine. Also editing and punching is more of a chore then with digital. However there is a distinct Character and sound quality that you get from recording to casette tape that doesn't come across in Digital.
I think the answer lies somewhere in a Hybrid. This is how I would work on the project:
Track the band all at once on the Four track, dump that into protools. Overdubs, and Vocals recorded Digitally.
So this is what you're going to need.
Listening: Headphones, Monitors
Recorder: Interface, Tascam Portaone Cassete 4-track
Tools: Microphones, Preamp, Compressor, Cables
a Quiet room
Now before you start rolling your eyes at me. Incorporating the Tascam would be as simple as spending an extra 30 bucks on Ebay. There are actually a couple of different approaches to using this setup.
- Record into the Tascam Porta One Directly, and dump to Protools for editing. You'll notice right away the character of your recording will sound really different. You'll either like it or you won't. Also The speed of the tape will slightly effect the timing. So if you want to mix using a Click you'll have to do some Time Stretching.
With this approach need an interface that can record 4 tracks at once.
or
- Record directly into Protools. Get everything sounding as good as possible and then dub your Protools sessions down to Casette tape. This is a very interesting approach. Which might not sonically make too much of a difference. It's sort of like Reamping the Casette tape to get some sort of unique effect on your sound.
Try it out: I've heard artists dub albums down to VHS to get a sort of sound quality. I don't think you get much of the benefits analog saturation this way, but It is possible. You can then dump the 4 tracks from Casette tape back into Protools, and take it to a studio to Mix.
Recording at home is where you get the Benefit of being able to experiment and take your time to hone your craft and get new sounds. Mixing, and mastering is key to getting a professional quality product for Retail.
So if you track with a Hybrid approach, and then bring the Wav's into the Studio. I think you'll have a mighty impressive Home recording.
Now if your not comfortable with any of that.. Analog shit. A good simple Digital setup can also be effective. M-audio shit is way less expensive then Digi-design shit. You can use any M-powered Protools sessions in real Protools. If it was me I'd just work in Protools 9 and use a badass interface.
$100.00
Headphones - Think of these as Magnifying glasses. Don't rely on them for accuracy. Get something Studio reference quality - Sony, Grado or AKG.
$300
Monitors - Extremely important for home recording. I like Yamaha myself. Look for something that sounds good and doesn't color the sound too much. http://www.tweakheadz.com/studio_monitors.htm
Yamaha HS50M pair
$200-$300
Interface -
If you want to use M-powered Protools:
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
M-audio FireWire 1814. *I personally use this, really good for quick ideas.
If you want to use Protools 9:
Saffire Pro14
$50
Tascam Portaone - Analog saturation and warmth / Bragging rights.
Microphones
$100
Condensor - Rode Nt1a good multipurpose.
$50 - a piece
Dynamic - Sm-57's are incredible multipurpose tools, great for Guitars & Snare
$300
Vocals - See if you can splurge on something good here. Bluebird, I like to use tube mics on Vocals.
$150
Kick drum - I like a good ATM 25, but you can get away with a Shure beta-52a
Also use anything else you can get your hands on I'll often borrow mics from Friends and Venues.
$100
Alesis 3630
Compressor - Use this to track your Vocals and Bass nice and loud.
$200
Presonus bluetube
Preamp - Think of this as an effect pedal that makes all your Microphones sound better. ESPECIALLY an Sm-57. Use a Preamp on everything going to tape.
TOTAL COST: A little under $2000 give or take incorporating what you have and don't have.
It's important to talk to your band mates about what they want to do. Spend the money now. Get the recording done quickly? Or spend a few months experimenting while learning to record an album at home?
It's all about TIME, and MONEY figure it out.
If you are going to just record at home and Mix in a studio. I'd still find the studio your going to mix with and discuss with one of the engineers the process and equipment your going to track with, and what your approach and goal is for your record. Everybody's going to have a thousand different approaches, and the process is just as much magic as it is science. So take any opinion with a grain of salt.
I love the quickness and speed of recording Digitally, but I personally feel every time I use an Mbox into Protools the sounds always comes out too polished and soft. Everybody thinks I'm nuts but I completely feel that the medium sonically changes the style of your music. I personally prefer the sound of natural saturation/distortion of Tubes and tape being hit hard as opposed to Digital Bigness and clarity.
IMO, If you want your recording to sound like 1975. Why would use Protools HD?
If you'd like to nail a sound though I say stick to your favorite artists and look at there approach. Were they using a protools rig? Were they using compression on vocals? What gear did they use? There is definitely a distinction between Biting, and Inspiration. If an artist nails a sound quality look at there approach, and then work it out from there. That might be half your battle right there.
When I work with a band.. I make sure we take time to discuss the influences.. and try to figure out the recording approach. Then I'll do research on what equipment the artists used to achieve their sound. The songwriting and Style should dictate how you record the project.
I feel the recording studio is just as much an instrument as say a piano or a guitar. Feel free to ask questions. Good luck to you.
- spidey
Seriously, Spidey. Can't thank you enough for taking the time to bang that out.
I'm definitely with you on the hybrid options you mentioned. We have several cassette based Portastudios kicking around (and I just inherited about 300 studio grade cassettes that were being tossed out at work) so we're always down to throw that into the equation. Our singer has been an obsessive 4-tracker for 10-15 years (our band will occasionally mine his 10 year old tapes for song ideas). We love the sound you can get out of those things. And in our most recent studio recordings, we bounced the mix to a Studor A820 (reel to reel master recorder) which gave it such a nice full, warm sound. And I know at some point we messed around with bouncing digital mixes to a cassette 4-track. I'm a fan of tape, whether it be crappy 4-track or Daptone quality.
And I definitely hear you on having that outside perspective. We have a specific producer in mind that our singer worked with recently on his other band's record. Our ideal situation would be to do the basic tracking ourselves (whether it be directly into Pro Tools or dumped into Pro Tools) and bring the project to this producer for overdubs, final vocal tracking and mixing.
I just got off the phone with a local engineer who is just getting a studio off the ground. He's managed to assemble a nice collection of mics, so we'll probably hire him for those if nothing else. And maybe we'll just end up using his Pro Tools rig as well (or some combination of his stuff and whatever I manage to put together). There's so many damned ways to record music that I don't want to get too set in my ways at this stage.
Thanks again for the post. I'll definitely spend some time looking at all of your equipment suggestions and I appreciate your thoughtful insights.
edit - I do have an Alesis 3630 and I believe we have a Rode Nt1a. Two down! Ha ha.
For sure look into the Focusrite Saffire interface with protools 9. The Apogee stuff also sounds incredible.
This is my favorite interface right now:
Wish I could afford one.
Keep us updated.
- spidey
That's what I'm looking at right now. Looks like even the Pro 40 can be had on eBay for a reasonable price (might be nice to have the additional mic preamps ... though I could always find a decent analog recording mixer on eBay to use with the 14's line inputs).
So you've been working with protools 9? Has it been buggy at all? The engineer I was talking to said that it's been crashing on a co-worker's computer (I have no idea what the specs of his machine are). Have things been pretty smooth for you? It does sound like the way to go if it opens up the possibility of using different interfaces.
Thanks! Yeah ... the drums don't sound mind blowing by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm still impressed that they were recorded with a single 57. Our space has a small bedroom sized section in the back which projects the drum sound well. And the walls around it are natural stone, which may add to the character. So most of the sound is due to the space itself.
And thanks again for your input/advice. I think I am leaning towards working with that local engineer with the nice mic collection I mentioned above, rather than trying to do everything ourselves. While we may have squeezed out a decent sound with a 57, we can certainly do a lot more with appropriate mics (and a knowledgeable engineer).