iodine just counteracts the radioactive iodine to protect the thyroid gland.....to some extent......i cannot stop the damage of radioactivity, just provides a buffer of sorts!
it doesn't look like the levels here in Tokyo would be of serious concern, so i'm just say to be prepared for that remote and unlikely scenario just in case.
iodine just counteracts the radioactive iodine to protect the thyroid gland.....to some extent......i cannot stop the damage of radioactivity, just provides a buffer of sorts!
As it was explained to me, the thyroid tends to absorbs Iodine and high doses of regular Iodine will keep you from absorbing the radioactive Iodine. Whether it actually works or not, I don't know.
dollar_binI heartily endorse this product and/or event 2,326 Posts
Horseleech said:
tokyobeats said:
iodine just counteracts the radioactive iodine to protect the thyroid gland.....to some extent......i cannot stop the damage of radioactivity, just provides a buffer of sorts!
As it was explained to me, the thyroid tends to absorbs Iodine and high doses of regular Iodine will keep you from absorbing the radioactive Iodine. Whether it actually works or not, I don't know.
Iodine is a component of hormones that are synthesized in the thyroid, thus Iodine is concentrated in that organ. The body requires a tiny amount of iodine and passes harmlessly the fraction it doesn't need, so giving doses of non-radioactive iodine drowns out absorption of radioactive iodine-131 absorbed from the environment.
let's just all brace ourselves, and hope for the best! at this stage there seems little else that can be done to get things under control.
there is talk of spraying water laced with boric acid from helicopters, yet there hasn't been any formal press release explaining whether or not this is a viable option......this refers to the pool of spent fuel rods, which have apparently already burned through water supplies. There just seems too much going on to be able to manage, unfortunately.
People, if you can get out of Tokyo and Northern Japan, please do so. I trust my gut, my brain and Michio Kaku. Based on my research of Chernobyl, atomic testing, and Three Mile Island, and listening to that video just now, the Japanese gov't is using extreme obfuscation, unwilling to do the necessary operations that would afterward render these reactors unusable and the surrounding areas wastelands, and they are running on borrowed time. Pulling out your workers is not a solution. This problem will not go away. It's going to take some extremely brave Japanese men and women (as well as other people) to do what needs to be done.
People, if you can get out of Tokyo and Northern Japan, please do so. I trust my gut, my brain and Michio Kaku. Based on my research of Chernobyl, atomic testing, and Three Mile Island, and listening to that video just now, the Japanese gov't is using extreme obfuscation, unwilling to do the necessary operations that would afterward render these reactors unusable and the surrounding areas wastelands, and they are running on borrowed time. Pulling out your workers is not a solution. This problem will not go away. It's going to take some extremely brave Japanese men and women (as well as other people) to do what needs to be done.
You think Tokyo should be evacuated?
That area has somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million people.
Somehow I don't think your research is gonna lead to that kind of unprecedented exodus.
People, if you can get out of Tokyo and Northern Japan, please do so. I trust my gut, my brain and Michio Kaku. Based on my research of Chernobyl, atomic testing, and Three Mile Island, and listening to that video just now, the Japanese gov't is using extreme obfuscation, unwilling to do the necessary operations that would afterward render these reactors unusable and the surrounding areas wastelands, and they are running on borrowed time. Pulling out your workers is not a solution. This problem will not go away. It's going to take some extremely brave Japanese men and women (as well as other people) to do what needs to be done.
You think Tokyo should be evacuated?
That area has somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million people.
Somehow I don't think your research is gonna lead to that kind of unprecedented exodus.
If you sum up what's been said in the worldwide press about the situation, getting out would be the thing to do. The French are telling their people to get out of Tokyo. International reporters are getting out now. I would not trust the Japanese government with a timely warning, their information policy regarding the situation at Fukushima has been one of de-escalation and I suspect also of mis-information and down-play. Can anyone even keep up with which reactor is on fire right now? How many might have already entered a meltdown? Which reactor have confirmed leaks in the inner containment vessel? This shit is completely out of control. Is there any chance of this going down without severe radioactive fallout over hundreds of miles surrounding the Fukushima plant? I would doubt it. Would the Japanese government tell its people the truth, risk a mass panic and call for a mass exodus that probably couldn't even be carried out if attempted? Of course not.
I'm no expert and I don't know how much to trust each so called expert who is quoted in the online articles that I'm reading but everybody is pretty much saying that this thing is completely out of control by now and can only end in a severely catastrophic event.
According to Wikileaks, the Japanese government was warned by the G8 Nuclear Safety and Security Group (NSSG) in December of 2008 about some of their plants being at risk of becoming unstable after an major earthquake. They gambled with their own people's health in a game of profit and economical power. Just like every other government with a nuclear program.
Stop believing that nothing bad will happen because the Japanese build a better plant than the Russians. Of course they do but just like everybody else, they are dealing with powers that can not be contained when things get out of control and things surely are out of control in Fukushima. This plant was built 40 years ago. It's been rocked by explosions for days now and these explosion seem to be getting worse. For a day now, at least one of he reactors seems to be on fire at any give time.
If I had any friends or family there, I'd get them out now.
Thank god you're not in charge, there'd be wide spread panic.
REACTOR No 3:
What is happening?
Tepco said on Wednesday that resolving problems at this reactor was the top priority because it had the highest radiation levels. This reactor is the only one that includes plutonium in its fuel mix.
The operator has been pumping sea water into the reactor to prevent overheating. The building housing the reactor was hit by an explosion on Monday.
An attempt by a military helicopter to drop water on the reactor failed on Wednesday probably because radiation levels were too high, Kyodo reported. The Japan nuclear agency had said earlier in the day that the pumping of sea water was proceeding smoothly.
Tepco said the spent fuel pool may have heated up, producing steam. The temperature has risen to around 60C from the usual 30C-40C but the change was not critical, it said.
What are the risks?
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said on Tuesday that the primary containment vessel, the first line of defence against a radiation leak, appeared intact.
However, government spokesman Yukio Edano said on Wednesday there is a "possibility" the vessel had been damaged, Kyodo reported.
If that is the case, authorities will be worried that radiation may leak through the first containment wall into the secondary containment building.
The spent fuel pools present a radiation risk if the spent fuel is exposed to the atmosphere. When a rod is exposed to the air, zirconium metal on the rods will catch fire, which could release radiation contained in the fuel, said Arnie Gundersen, a 39-year veteran of the nuclear industry who is now chief engineer at Fairwinds Associates Inc.
REACTOR No 4:
What is happening?
TV on Wednesday showed smoke or steam rising from the facility after flames were seen earlier. The reactor had been shut down for maintenance when the earthquake and tsunami struck.
On Tuesday, a pool where spent fuel is stored caught fire and caused an explosion. Japan's nuclear safety agency says the blast punctured two holes around 8-metres square in the wall of the outer building of the reactor.
Tepco has said it may pour water through the two holes within two or three days to cool spent nuclear fuel that is inside. Workers cannot prepare to pour water into the pool sooner because of high radiation levels, Kyodo said.
Instead, Tepco plans to bulldoze a road to the reactor building so water-pump trucks can approach and hose water inside, said Kazuya Aoki, a director of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.
What are the risks?
Exposure of spent fuel to the atmosphere is serious because there is more radiation in the spent fuel than in the reactor, said Gundersen. The spent fuel pool is not inside a containment facility either.
"They need to keep water in those pools because the roof over the building housing the pools is already damaged and radiation will escape," he said.
The pools contain racks that hold spent fuel taken from the reactor. Operators need to constantly add water to the pool to keep the fuel submerged so that radiation cannot escape.
Exposing the spent fuel to the atmosphere will release radiation.
REACTOR No 2:
What is happening?
An explosion rocked the plant on Tuesday, damaging a suppression pool, into which steam is vented from the reactor to relieve pressure. The roof of the reactor building is damaged, Jiji news agency reported.
Tepco said on Tuesday the fuel rods were fully exposed. Kyodo reported an estimated 33% of the nuclear fuel rods have been damaged at the No 2 reactor.
However, on Wednesday, Japan's nuclear agency said the pumping of sea water into the reactor was proceeding smoothly.
What are the risks?
When fuel rods are no longer covered in coolant they can heat up and start to melt, raising the risk of a radiation leak.
The suppression pool is part of the primary containment vessel, which is designed to prevent a leak, but the IAEA said the blast "may have affected the integrity of its primary containment vessel."
Still, beyond the primary containment vessel is the containment building, which is also designed to prevent radiation from escaping.
REACTOR No 1:
What is happening?
An explosion occurred at the reactor on Saturday. Kyodo reported on Wednesday an estimated 70% of the nuclear fuel rods have been damaged.
Authorities are pumping sea water into the reactor to prevent overheating, and pressure levels were stable, Edano said on Tuesday.
The Japan nuclear agency said on Wednesday the pumping was proceeding smoothly.
-What are the risks?
The IAEA said on Tuesday the primary containment vessel appeared intact. If the fuel rods in the reactor are not covered by coolant, they can heat up and start to melt.
REACTOR No 5:
What is happening?
The reactor had been shut down for maintenance at the time of the quake and tsunami.
Tepco said on Wednesday water was being poured into the reactor and that temperatures in the spent fuel pool were rising slightly.
What is the risk?
Reactor 5 and reactor 6 are seen less at risk than reactors 1 to 4.
REACTOR No 6:
What is happening?
Tepco said on Wednesday water was being poured into the reactor and that temperatures in the spent fuel pool were rising slightly.
There is a huge humanitarian crisis in Japan right now dealing with the aftermath of the quake & tsunami. Hysteria over this nuclear crisis is the last thing they need.
There's a lot of fear mongering going on - this is a good article to read for a more balanced scientific analysis
You Can Stop Worrying About A Radiation Disaster In Japan -- Here's Why
UPDATE: Since posting this, we have learned that it was written by Dr. Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at MIT.
I repeat, there was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity from the damaged Japanese reactors.
By "significant" I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on - say - a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.
I have been reading every news release on the incident since the earthquake. There has not been one single report that was accurate and free of errors (and part of that problem is also a weakness in the Japanese crisis communication). By ???not free of errors??? I do not refer to tendentious anti-nuclear journalism ??? that is quite normal these days. By ???not free of errors??? I mean blatant errors regarding physics and natural law, as well as gross misinterpretation of facts, due to an obvious lack of fundamental and basic understanding of the way nuclear reactors are build and operated. I have read a 3 page report on CNN where every single paragraph contained an error.
We will have to cover some fundamentals, before we get into what is going on.
The plants at Fukushima are so called Boiling Water Reactors, or BWR for short. Boiling Water Reactors are similar to a pressure cooker. The nuclear fuel heats water, the water boils and creates steam, the steam then drives turbines that create the electricity, and the steam is then cooled and condensed back to water, and the water send back to be heated by the nuclear fuel. The pressure cooker operates at about 250 ??C.
The nuclear fuel is uranium oxide. Uranium oxide is a ceramic with a very high melting point of about 3000 ??C. The fuel is manufactured in pellets (think little cylinders the size of Lego bricks). Those pieces are then put into a long tube made of Zircaloy with a melting point of 2200 ??C, and sealed tight. The assembly is called a fuel rod. These fuel rods are then put together to form larger packages, and a number of these packages are then put into the reactor. All these packages together are referred to as ???the core???.
The Zircaloy casing is the first containment. It separates the radioactive fuel from the rest of the world. The core is then placed in the ???pressure vessels???. That is the pressure cooker we talked about before.
The pressure vessels is the second containment. This is one sturdy piece of a pot, designed to safely contain the core for temperatures several hundred ??C. That covers the scenarios where cooling can be restored at some point.
The entire ???hardware??? of the nuclear reactor ??? the pressure vessel and all pipes, pumps, coolant (water) reserves, are then encased in the third containment. The third containment is a hermetically (air tight) sealed, very thick bubble of the strongest steel. The third containment is designed, built and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown. For that purpose, a large and thick concrete basin is cast under the pressure vessel (the second containment), which is filled with graphite, all inside the third containment. This is the so-called "core catcher". If the core melts and the pressure vessel bursts (and eventually melts), it will catch the molten fuel and everything else. It is built in such a way that the nuclear fuel will be spread out, so it can cool down.
This third containment is then surrounded by the reactor building. The reactor building is an outer shell that is supposed to keep the weather out, but nothing in. (this is the part that was damaged in the explosion, but more to that later).
Fundamentals of nuclear reactions: The uranium fuel generates heat by nuclear fission. Big uranium atoms are split into smaller atoms. That generates heat plus neutrons (one of the particles that forms an atom). When the neutron hits another uranium atom, that splits, generating more neutrons and so on. That is called the nuclear chain reaction.
Now, just packing a lot of fuel rods next to each other would quickly lead to overheating and after about 45 minutes to a melting of the fuel rods. It is worth mentioning at this point that the nuclear fuel in a reactor can *never* cause a nuclear explosion the type of a nuclear bomb. Building a nuclear bomb is actually quite difficult (ask Iran).
In Chernobyl, the explosion was caused by excessive pressure buildup, hydrogen explosion and rupture of all containments, propelling molten core material into the environment (a ???dirty bomb???). Why that did not and will not happen in Japan, further below.
In order to control the nuclear chain reaction, the reactor operators use so-called ???moderator rods???. The moderator rods absorb the neutrons and kill the chain reaction instantaneously. A nuclear reactor is built in such a way, that when operating normally, you take out all the moderator rods. The coolant water then takes away the heat (and converts it into steam and electricity) at the same rate as the core produces it. And you have a lot of leeway around the standard operating point of 250??C. The challenge is that after inserting the rods and stopping the chain reaction, the core still keeps producing heat. The uranium ???stopped??? the chain reaction. But a number of intermediate radioactive elements are created by the uranium during its fission process, most notably Cesium and Iodine isotopes, i.e. radioactive versions of these elements that will eventually split up into smaller atoms and not be radioactive anymore. Those elements keep decaying and producing heat. Because they are not regenerated any longer from the uranium (the uranium stopped decaying after the moderator rods were put in), they get less and less, and so the core cools down over a matter of days, until those intermediate radioactive elements are used up. This residual heat is causing the headaches right now.
So the first ???type??? of radioactive material is the uranium in the fuel rods, plus the intermediate radioactive elements that the uranium splits into, also inside the fuel rod (Cesium and Iodine). There is a second type of radioactive material created, outside the fuel rods.
The big main difference up front: Those radioactive materials have a very short half-life, that means that they decay very fast and split into non-radioactive materials. By fast I mean seconds. So if these radioactive materials are released into the environment, yes, radioactivity was released, but no, it is not dangerous, at all. Why? By the time you spelled ???R-A-D-I-O-N-U-C-L-I-D-E???, they will be harmless, because they will have split up into non radioactive elements. Those radioactive elements are N-16, the radioactive isotope (or version) of nitrogen (air). The others are noble gases such as Xenon. But where do they come from? When the uranium splits, it generates a neutron (see above). Most of these neutrons will hit other uranium atoms and keep the nuclear chain reaction going. But some will leave the fuel rod and hit the water molecules, or the air that is in the water. Then, a non-radioactive element can ???capture??? the neutron. It becomes radioactive. As described above, it will quickly (seconds) get rid again of the neutron to return to its former beautiful self.
This second ???type??? of radiation is very important when we talk about the radioactivity being released into the environment later on.
What happened at Fukushima I will try to summarize the main facts.
The earthquake that hit Japan was 7 times more powerful than the worst earthquake the nuclear power plant was built for (the Richter scale works logarithmically; the difference between the 8.2 that the plants were built for and the 8.9 that happened is 7 times, not 0.7). So the first hooray for Japanese engineering, everything held up.
When the earthquake hit with 8.9, the nuclear reactors all went into automatic shutdown. Within seconds after the earthquake started, the moderator rods had been inserted into the core and nuclear chain reaction of the uranium stopped. Now, the cooling system has to carry away the residual heat. The residual heat load is about 3% of the heat load under normal operating conditions. The earthquake destroyed the external power supply of the nuclear reactor. That is one of the most serious accidents for a nuclear power plant, and accordingly, a ???plant black out??? receives a lot of attention when designing backup systems. The power is needed to keep the coolant pumps working. Since the power plant had been shut down, it cannot produce any electricity by itself any more.
Things were going well for an hour. One set of multiple sets of emergency Diesel power generators kicked in and provided the electricity that was needed. Then the Tsunami came, much bigger than people had expected when building the power plant (see above, factor 7). The tsunami took out all multiple sets of backup Diesel generators.
When designing a nuclear power plant, engineers follow a philosophy called ???Defense of Depth???. That means that you first build everything to withstand the worst catastrophe you can imagine, and then design the plant in such a way that it can still handle one system failure (that you thought could never happen) after the other. A tsunami taking out all backup power in one swift strike is such a scenario.
The last line of defense is putting everything into the third containment (see above), that will keep everything, whatever the mess, moderator rods in our out, core molten or not, inside the reactor. When the diesel generators were gone, the reactor operators switched to emergency battery power. The batteries were designed as one of the backups to the backups, to provide power for cooling the core for 8 hours. And they did. Within the 8 hours, another power source had to be found and connected to the power plant. The power grid was down due to the earthquake.
The diesel generators were destroyed by the tsunami. So mobile diesel generators were trucked in. This is where things started to go seriously wrong. The external power generators could not be connected to the power plant (the plugs did not fit). So after the batteries ran out, the residual heat could not be carried away any more.
At this point the plant operators begin to follow emergency procedures that are in place for a ???loss of cooling event???. It is again a step along the ???Depth of Defense??? lines. The power to the cooling systems should never have failed completely, but it did, so they ???retreat??? to the next line of defense. All of this, however shocking it seems to us, is part of the day-to-day training you go through as an operator, right through to managing a core meltdown. It was at this stage that people started to talk about core meltdown. Because at the end of the day, if cooling cannot be restored, the core will eventually melt (after hours or days), and the last line of defense, the core catcher and third containment, would come into play.
But the goal at this stage was to manage the core while it was heating up, and ensure that the first containment (the Zircaloy tubes that contains the nuclear fuel), as well as the second containment (our pressure cooker) remain intact and operational for as long as possible, to give the engineers time to fix the cooling systems. Because cooling the core is such a big deal, the reactor has a number of cooling systems, each in multiple versions (the reactor water cleanup system, the decay heat removal, the reactor core isolating cooling, the standby liquid cooling system, and the emergency core cooling system). Which one failed when or did not fail is not clear at this point in time.
So imagine our pressure cooker on the stove, heat on low, but on. The operators use whatever cooling system capacity they have to get rid of as much heat as possible, but the pressure starts building up. The priority now is to maintain integrity of the first containment (keep temperature of the fuel rods below 2200??C), as well as the second containment, the pressure cooker. In order to maintain integrity of the pressure cooker (the second containment), the pressure has to be released from time to time. Because the ability to do that in an emergency is so important, the reactor has 11 pressure release valves. The operators now started venting steam from time to time to control the pressure. The temperature at this stage was about 550??C. This is when the reports about ???radiation leakage??? starting coming in.
I believe I explained above why venting the steam is theoretically the same as releasing radiation into the environment, but why it was and is not dangerous. The radioactive nitrogen as well as the noble gases do not pose a threat to human health. At some stage during this venting, the explosion occurred. The explosion took place outside of the third containment (our ???last line of defense???), and the reactor building. Remember that the reactor building has no function in keeping the radioactivity contained.
It is not entirely clear yet what has happened, but this is the likely scenario: The operators decided to vent the steam from the pressure vessel not directly into the environment, but into the space between the third containment and the reactor building (to give the radioactivity in the steam more time to subside). The problem is that at the high temperatures that the core had reached at this stage, water molecules can ???disassociate??? into oxygen and hydrogen ??? an explosive mixture. And it did explode, outside the third containment, damaging the reactor building around. It was that sort of explosion, but inside the pressure vessel (because it was badly designed and not managed properly by the operators) that lead to the explosion of Chernobyl. This was never a risk at Fukushima.
The problem of hydrogen-oxygen formation is one of the biggies when you design a power plant (if you are not Soviet, that is), so the reactor is build and operated in a way it cannot happen inside the containment. It happened outside, which was not intended but a possible scenario and OK, because it did not pose a risk for the containment. So the pressure was under control, as steam was vented.
Now, if you keep boiling your pot, the problem is that the water level will keep falling and falling. The core is covered by several meters of water in order to allow for some time to pass (hours, days) before it gets exposed. Once the rods start to be exposed at the top, the exposed parts will reach the critical temperature of 2200 ??C after about 45 minutes. This is when the first containment, the Zircaloy tube, would fail. And this started to happen. The cooling could not be restored before there was some (very limited, but still) damage to the casing of some of the fuel. The nuclear material itself was still intact, but the surrounding Zircaloy shell had started melting.
What happened now is that some of the byproducts of the uranium decay - radioactive Cesium and Iodine - started to mix with the steam. The big problem, uranium, was still under control, because the uranium oxide rods were good until 3000 ??C. It is confirmed that a very small amount of Cesium and Iodine was measured in the steam that was released into the atmosphere. It seems this was the ???go signal??? for a major plan B. The small amounts of Cesium that were measured told the operators that the first containment on one of the rods somewhere was about to give.
The Plan A had been to restore one of the regular cooling systems to the core. Why that failed is unclear. One plausible explanation is that the tsunami also took away / polluted all the clean water needed for the regular cooling systems. The water used in the cooling system is very clean, demineralized (like distilled) water. The reason to use pure water is the above mentioned activation by the neutrons from the Uranium: Pure water does not get activated much, so stays practically radioactive-free. Dirt or salt in the water will absorb the neutrons quicker, becoming more radioactive. This has no effect whatsoever on the core - it does not care what it is cooled by. But it makes life more difficult for the operators and mechanics when they have to deal with activated (i.e. slightly radioactive) water.
But Plan A had failed - cooling systems down or additional clean water unavailable - so Plan B came into effect. This is what it looks like happened: In order to prevent a core meltdown, the operators started to use sea water to cool the core. I am not quite sure if they flooded our pressure cooker with it (the second containment), or if they flooded the third containment, immersing the pressure cooker. But that is not relevant for us. The point is that the nuclear fuel has now been cooled down. Because the chain reaction has been stopped a long time ago, there is only very little residual heat being produced now.
The large amount of cooling water that has been used is sufficient to take up that heat. Because it is a lot of water, the core does not produce sufficient heat any more to produce any significant pressure. Also, boric acid has been added to the seawater. Boric acid is "liquid control rod". Whatever decay is still going on, the Boron will capture the neutrons and further speed up the cooling down of the core.
The plant came close to a core meltdown. Here is the worst-case scenario that was avoided: If the seawater could not have been used for treatment, the operators would have continued to vent the water steam to avoid pressure buildup. The third containment would then have been completely sealed to allow the core meltdown to happen without releasing radioactive material. After the meltdown, there would have been a waiting period for the intermediate radioactive materials to decay inside the reactor, and all radioactive particles to settle on a surface inside the containment. The cooling system would have been restored eventually, and the molten core cooled to a manageable temperature. The containment would have been cleaned up on the inside. Then a messy job of removing the molten core from the containment would have begun, packing the (now solid again) fuel bit by bit into transportation containers to be shipped to processing plants. Depending on the damage, the block of the plant would then either be repaired or dismantled.
Thank god you're not in charge, there'd be wide spread panic.
There is a huge humanitarian crisis in Japan right now dealing with the aftermath of the quake & tsunami. Hysteria over this nuclear crisis is the last thing they need.
EXACTLY!!!
I wouldn't be blowing this out of proportion!! It's not a Chernobyl and Fission isn't the concern.....
It's mainly the US media that is sensationalising things, and the French haven't helped either.
It is a big deal, but Tokyo is in no immediate danger! MOST people on here no to read up a little on radioactivity 101 before throwing around the kind of comments that instil panic.
Tokyo has a large population, and thankfully the people who reside here have done their best to remain cool, and go about their business. It may sound to some as if that's unemotional, but these people are feeling it more than you can imagine. A cool head goes a long way.......I know what it's like, as I am in the thick of things.
According to Wikileaks, the Japanese government was warned by the G8 Nuclear Safety and Security Group (NSSG) in December of 2008 about some of their plants being at risk of becoming unstable after an major earthquake. They gambled with their own people's health in a game of profit and economical power.
you obviously don't understand much. It was the tsunami, and not the earthquake which caused the issues at Fukushima.
I think you have read ALL of the wrong news sources.......attention to detail might be something you should keep in mind when talking of a serious situation such as this...just sayin'
I repeat, there was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity from the damaged Japanese reactors.
By "significant" I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on - say - a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.
Okem said:
An attempt by a military helicopter to drop water on the reactor failed on Wednesday probably because radiation levels were too high
OK... seems I've really read all the wrong sources. I stand corrected. No reason to be worried.
Staxwax: The article you quoted is 3 (!) days old. It was written before the various fires and explosions that occured since Sunday and before there reports about leaks in the inner containment vessel of reactor 2. The author also ignores that at least one of the out of control reactors uses plutonium enriched fuel.
Who doesn't wish there will not be any major radioactive fallout? I'd still get out of there only if there's a chance of this happening. I wouldn't trust the American or Japanese media on telling the truth about the risks at hand and what I read pretty much everywhere else sounds very unsettling.
I repeat, there was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity from the damaged Japanese reactors.
By "significant" I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on - say - a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.
Okem said:
An attempt by a military helicopter to drop water on the reactor failed on Wednesday (probably because radiation levels were too high)
The first quote is an assertion we cant be absolutely sure is true
the second quote is pure speculation -
this is the current situation at fukushima, ground zero, according to ABC:
Radiation levels were as high as 10 millisieverts per hour today, the equivalent of getting a CT scan for every hour of exposure. Radiation levels have since dropped and the plant workers are planning to return to work, officials said.
Obviously no-one knows for sure what the ultimate consequences will be, but the idea that there will be a major incident, in addition to the quake and tsunami, with massive radiation affecting millions, is a nightmare scenario that perhaps is a lot less likely than the current media hysterics would like you to believe. The main aim of these headlines is to make you click a link, or buy a paper, not to inform you or provide balanced information. Im hoping we wont see a major nuclear incident.
I repeat, there was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity from the damaged Japanese reactors.
By "significant" I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on - say - a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.
Okem said:
An attempt by a military helicopter to drop water on the reactor failed on Wednesday probably because radiation levels were too high
OK... seems I've really read all the wrong sources. I stand corrected. No reason to be worried.
Staxwax: The article you quoted is 3 (!) days old. It was written before the various fires and explosions that occured since Sunday and before there reports about leaks in the inner containment vessel of reactor 2. The author also ignores that at least one of the out of control reactors uses plutonium enriched fuel.
Who doesn't wish there will not be any major radioactive fallout? I'd still get out of there only if there's a chance of this happening. I wouldn't trust the American or Japanese media on telling the truth about the risks at hand and what I read pretty much everywhere else sounds very unsettling.
MIT has reposted that article with some changes/updates, and has posted more articles explaining what's going on. It's been the easiest to understand of anything I've read so far -- hopefully it's reliable.
I don't want to cause panic, everyone has to do what they feel is best for themselves and their society.
It seems very clear that we already have had a series of major nuclear incidents.
Hopefully radiation poisoning can be limited to workers at the sites.
Secondary dangers (like cancer, birth defects) are real, and are not limited to only those in close proximity.
Each person's risk level will be different, depending on genetics, life span, and chance environmental exposure.
The Japanese government did a good move clearing a 12 mile radius a few days ago. The number of displaced people in Japan is staggering. Moving more people might be necessary even though the move would be daunting.
I don't think people should panic. The immediate problems of hunger, thirst, disease and lack of shelter are foremost in people's minds.
It's nice that experts are telling us there is no problem and no danger, but only a fool would believe that.
Exercising caution is not necessarily 'fear mongering'.
Wouldn't it be better to evacuate people in an orderly manner ahead of time, then in a panic in reaction to an event?
Yep, we all have no idea what we're talking about, or what's going on there. But, they don't either! This is uncharted territory.
I would have no idea if Tokyo should be evacuated, but I've heard many experts say the current exclusion zone is far, far too small. Especially for children in the area.
I know that Chernobyl was clearly a different situation, but I have several close friends who were children in Belarus at the time. My friend lived 450 miles away. He has parathyroid cancer. His wife has thyroid disease, and both of their parents and siblings and a lot of people they know have thyroid disorders too.
Also, a lot of the 'safe' hourly doses they're quoting are to avoid radiation sickness. Who knows how those doses affect cancer rates in years and decades to come.
There's a lot of fear mongering going on - this is a good article to read for a more balanced scientific analysis
You Can Stop Worrying About A Radiation Disaster In Japan -- Here's Why
UPDATE: Since posting this, we have learned that it was written by Dr. Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at MIT.
I repeat, there was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity from the damaged Japanese reactors.
By "significant" I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on - say - a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.
As I mentioned before, this "article" that you quoted was posted Sunday.
On Monday, the international news media reported:
"The San Diego-based USS Ronald Reagan, sent to Japan to help in the disaster relief effort, has been diverted after the discovery of low-level radioactive contamination on more than a dozen crew members." (direct quote from NBC)
Now how "low level" would you guess this radioactive contamination was in order to for the Navy to decide to have an aircraft carrier diverted from its course?
Maybe they should have consulted with your "Dr. Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at MIT" who would have told them that the crew members probably just had "a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation."
The US government is encouraging all Americans in Japan to stay at least 50 miles away.
Might be a good idea for Japanese citizens to do the same.
There is no magic safe distance in cases like these, since winds can carry contamination great distances in one direction, while the another direction may be safe at close range.
I feel the quiet stoicism the 180 workers are going about their jobs is reflective of Japanese culture overall. A lot of them are heading into certain death, yet they soldier on. Sacrificing themselves for the greater good, would you do the same if placed in that situation?
What I find most alarming is the Japanese government quietly raised the annual rate of exposure for workers from 100 mSv to 250 mSv.
5 have died, 2 missing, 21 injured. 1 was subjected to a high dose of radioactive steam while attempting to release a steam valve. The nation rests collectively in the hands of these brave men/women. You wonder what their families must be going through.
Here's a quote I pulled from a nyt piece...
Nuclear reactor operators say that their profession is typified by the same kind of esprit de corps found among firefighters and elite military units. Lunchroom conversations at reactors frequently turn to what operators would do in a severe emergency.
The consensus is always that they would warn their families to flee before staying at their posts to the end, said Michael Friedlander, a former senior operator at three American power plants for a total of 13 years.
David Richardson, a professor of epidemiology at the university of North Carolina who has studied the long-term health risks for nuclear plant workers, told the BBC those at Fukushima would receive in an hour the same amount of radiation a US nuclear worker is exposed over an entire career.
The US government is encouraging all Americans in Japan to stay at least 50 miles away.
Might be a good idea for Japanese citizens to do the same.
There is no magic safe distance in cases like these, since winds can carry contamination great distances in one direction, while the another direction may be safe at close range.
I think the Chernobyl "Zone of Alienation" is a 30 mile radius. And how eerie is that name?
I also read today that there are still a few stray people living in Chernobyl after all these years.
5 have died, 2 missing, 21 injured. 1 was subjected to a high dose of radioactive steam while attempting to release a steam valve. The nation rests collectively in the hands of these brave men/women.
Aser,
Are those deaths related to the power plants?? I heard about it, but couldn't find any info on it.
5 have died, 2 missing, 21 injured. 1 was subjected to a high dose of radioactive steam while attempting to release a steam valve. The nation rests collectively in the hands of these brave men/women.
Aser,
Are those deaths related to the power plants?? I heard about it, but couldn't find any info on it.
I don't have a link right now, but yes. Those were all TEPCO employees.
5 have died, 2 missing, 21 injured. 1 was subjected to a high dose of radioactive steam while attempting to release a steam valve. The nation rests collectively in the hands of these brave men/women.
Double post.
I'm checking my news on Asahi.com, which is one of the bigger newspapers in Japan, and one older Japanese guy at work was calling TEPCO, the Japanese gov't, and quite possibly these media outlets as "information manipulation".
Comments
it doesn't look like the levels here in Tokyo would be of serious concern, so i'm just say to be prepared for that remote and unlikely scenario just in case.
Not a good sign.
I hope things are brought under control and damage is limited.
As it was explained to me, the thyroid tends to absorbs Iodine and high doses of regular Iodine will keep you from absorbing the radioactive Iodine. Whether it actually works or not, I don't know.
Iodine is a component of hormones that are synthesized in the thyroid, thus Iodine is concentrated in that organ. The body requires a tiny amount of iodine and passes harmlessly the fraction it doesn't need, so giving doses of non-radioactive iodine drowns out absorption of radioactive iodine-131 absorbed from the environment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739
let's just all brace ourselves, and hope for the best! at this stage there seems little else that can be done to get things under control.
there is talk of spraying water laced with boric acid from helicopters, yet there hasn't been any formal press release explaining whether or not this is a viable option......this refers to the pool of spent fuel rods, which have apparently already burned through water supplies. There just seems too much going on to be able to manage, unfortunately.
People, if you can get out of Tokyo and Northern Japan, please do so. I trust my gut, my brain and Michio Kaku. Based on my research of Chernobyl, atomic testing, and Three Mile Island, and listening to that video just now, the Japanese gov't is using extreme obfuscation, unwilling to do the necessary operations that would afterward render these reactors unusable and the surrounding areas wastelands, and they are running on borrowed time. Pulling out your workers is not a solution. This problem will not go away. It's going to take some extremely brave Japanese men and women (as well as other people) to do what needs to be done.
You think Tokyo should be evacuated?
That area has somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million people.
Somehow I don't think your research is gonna lead to that kind of unprecedented exodus.
the nuclear power plant situation is getting worse by the day......
FUCK
I hate the sound of "containment vessel probably breached"......
This is the last line of defense against the radioactive particles....
This is so damn serious now.....
I am REALLLY REALLY scared for Japan right now.
thoughts and prayers are with these workers.
If you sum up what's been said in the worldwide press about the situation, getting out would be the thing to do. The French are telling their people to get out of Tokyo. International reporters are getting out now. I would not trust the Japanese government with a timely warning, their information policy regarding the situation at Fukushima has been one of de-escalation and I suspect also of mis-information and down-play. Can anyone even keep up with which reactor is on fire right now? How many might have already entered a meltdown? Which reactor have confirmed leaks in the inner containment vessel? This shit is completely out of control. Is there any chance of this going down without severe radioactive fallout over hundreds of miles surrounding the Fukushima plant? I would doubt it. Would the Japanese government tell its people the truth, risk a mass panic and call for a mass exodus that probably couldn't even be carried out if attempted? Of course not.
I'm no expert and I don't know how much to trust each so called expert who is quoted in the online articles that I'm reading but everybody is pretty much saying that this thing is completely out of control by now and can only end in a severely catastrophic event.
According to Wikileaks, the Japanese government was warned by the G8 Nuclear Safety and Security Group (NSSG) in December of 2008 about some of their plants being at risk of becoming unstable after an major earthquake. They gambled with their own people's health in a game of profit and economical power. Just like every other government with a nuclear program.
Stop believing that nothing bad will happen because the Japanese build a better plant than the Russians. Of course they do but just like everybody else, they are dealing with powers that can not be contained when things get out of control and things surely are out of control in Fukushima. This plant was built 40 years ago. It's been rocked by explosions for days now and these explosion seem to be getting worse. For a day now, at least one of he reactors seems to be on fire at any give time.
If I had any friends or family there, I'd get them out now.
There is a huge humanitarian crisis in Japan right now dealing with the aftermath of the quake & tsunami. Hysteria over this nuclear crisis is the last thing they need.
article link
you obviously don't understand much. It was the tsunami, and not the earthquake which caused the issues at Fukushima.
I think you have read ALL of the wrong news sources.......attention to detail might be something you should keep in mind when talking of a serious situation such as this...just sayin'
OK... seems I've really read all the wrong sources. I stand corrected. No reason to be worried.
Staxwax: The article you quoted is 3 (!) days old. It was written before the various fires and explosions that occured since Sunday and before there reports about leaks in the inner containment vessel of reactor 2. The author also ignores that at least one of the out of control reactors uses plutonium enriched fuel.
Who doesn't wish there will not be any major radioactive fallout? I'd still get out of there only if there's a chance of this happening. I wouldn't trust the American or Japanese media on telling the truth about the risks at hand and what I read pretty much everywhere else sounds very unsettling.
The first quote is an assertion we cant be absolutely sure is true
the second quote is pure speculation -
this is the current situation at fukushima, ground zero, according to ABC:
Obviously no-one knows for sure what the ultimate consequences will be, but the idea that there will be a major incident, in addition to the quake and tsunami, with massive radiation affecting millions, is a nightmare scenario that perhaps is a lot less likely than the current media hysterics would like you to believe. The main aim of these headlines is to make you click a link, or buy a paper, not to inform you or provide balanced information. Im hoping we wont see a major nuclear incident.
http://mitnse.com/
MIT has reposted that article with some changes/updates, and has posted more articles explaining what's going on. It's been the easiest to understand of anything I've read so far -- hopefully it's reliable.
We all are. And praying.
I don't want to cause panic, everyone has to do what they feel is best for themselves and their society.
It seems very clear that we already have had a series of major nuclear incidents.
Hopefully radiation poisoning can be limited to workers at the sites.
Secondary dangers (like cancer, birth defects) are real, and are not limited to only those in close proximity.
Each person's risk level will be different, depending on genetics, life span, and chance environmental exposure.
The Japanese government did a good move clearing a 12 mile radius a few days ago. The number of displaced people in Japan is staggering. Moving more people might be necessary even though the move would be daunting.
I don't think people should panic. The immediate problems of hunger, thirst, disease and lack of shelter are foremost in people's minds.
It's nice that experts are telling us there is no problem and no danger, but only a fool would believe that.
Wouldn't it be better to evacuate people in an orderly manner ahead of time, then in a panic in reaction to an event?
Yep, we all have no idea what we're talking about, or what's going on there. But, they don't either! This is uncharted territory.
I would have no idea if Tokyo should be evacuated, but I've heard many experts say the current exclusion zone is far, far too small. Especially for children in the area.
I know that Chernobyl was clearly a different situation, but I have several close friends who were children in Belarus at the time. My friend lived 450 miles away. He has parathyroid cancer. His wife has thyroid disease, and both of their parents and siblings and a lot of people they know have thyroid disorders too.
Also, a lot of the 'safe' hourly doses they're quoting are to avoid radiation sickness. Who knows how those doses affect cancer rates in years and decades to come.
Apparently they are close to running a power line to Fukushima, which would enable them to restore the cooling system.
fresh crop of Japan photos:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/03/japan_continuing_crisis.html
Might be a good idea for Japanese citizens to do the same.
There is no magic safe distance in cases like these, since winds can carry contamination great distances in one direction, while the another direction may be safe at close range.
What I find most alarming is the Japanese government quietly raised the annual rate of exposure for workers from 100 mSv to 250 mSv.
5 have died, 2 missing, 21 injured. 1 was subjected to a high dose of radioactive steam while attempting to release a steam valve. The nation rests collectively in the hands of these brave men/women. You wonder what their families must be going through.
Here's a quote I pulled from a nyt piece...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/japan-tsunami/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503051&objectid=10712802
Very, very heavy. My heart goes out to Japan.
I think the Chernobyl "Zone of Alienation" is a 30 mile radius. And how eerie is that name?
I also read today that there are still a few stray people living in Chernobyl after all these years.
Aser,
Are those deaths related to the power plants?? I heard about it, but couldn't find any info on it.
I don't have a link right now, but yes. Those were all TEPCO employees.
Double post.
I'm checking my news on Asahi.com, which is one of the bigger newspapers in Japan, and one older Japanese guy at work was calling TEPCO, the Japanese gov't, and quite possibly these media outlets as "information manipulation".