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Progress BAD! Bikestrut catnip

JahLarryJahLarry 62 Posts
edited November 2010 in Strut Central
I ride in NYC almost every day so I would hate to see the bike lane trend slow down.


Expansion of Bike Lanes Brings Backlash

  Comments

  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    the fellows at WSJ seem to just think it will take some additional time and education to get all players up to speed on how the roads should be shared.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703567304575628783384491828.html?mod=WSJ_NY_MIDDLELEADNewsCollection

    i am of the camp that i dislike drivers, bikers and pedestrians with equal distaste.
  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    This is our newly elected Mayor. Who promises to get rid of bike lanes.



  • AlmondAlmond 1,427 Posts
    At least Toronto has good public transportation, though.
    "It's their own fault they get hit."
  • UnherdUnherd 1,880 Posts
    People will always bitch about change, plain and simple. I'm sure people went apeshit when they made all the avenues one-way. Ms Sicklick (in the article) is anti-bike lanes because she likes leisurely drives around the East VIll like she used to have with her dad? And that's why people should have to bike in the street with the cabs and trucks?? GTFOHWTBS.

    The columbus ave lane goes right past my apt, and it is a big change for sure, but if they actually finish it thru to midtown, maybe my girl could bike to work safely. Way too many people drive around NY when they don't really need to, and then they complain about traffic. Get a metrocard, or go to the 'burbs.
  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    Bike dudes???please to school me. Are bike folks supposed to follow the same traffic laws as cars, or is it the Wild West out there? Honest question.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Dudes that ride a bike to work, etc. deserve all the protection they can get in the way of bike lanes.

    These ahole weekend bikers who think it's OK to ride in the middle of a 55mph lane doing 25 begin to look like bowling pins after you drive behind them for more than 5 minutes.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    Bike dudes???please to school me. Are bike folks supposed to follow the same traffic laws as cars, or is it the Wild West out there? Honest question.

    In NYC bikes are supposed to follow pretty much all of the same laws as a car.

    As somebody with close to 500,000 city miles on bicycle I have to say I'm far from sold on these new lanes like the kind they have on 1st ave, and I seem to notice a lot of cyclists avoiding them. When I was a messenger I was more wary of pedestrians than cars and I see them walking in these new bike lanes all the time.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    As a frequent city driver (and parker!) I see the good and bad of these things.

    I don't really mind the lanes, although it has made parking much tougher. I still would like to see some sort of admissions process for cars in the city. Far too many people just commuting when it rains. I do this too... heh. I would pay a monthly rate to park and commute though. Too much use of the car for business to just get rid of it.

    With the advent of the new lanes, though, I would like to see a lot of enforcement. Bike riders seem to come in three stripes: the few, who are grizzled vets of the city and can be trusted; some who are new and learning, but still don't quite have their peripheral vision or sense of dimension/speed/size down pat, and then people who seem to think that if they're not in a car things like lights, stop signs, pedestrians, and cars don't seem to matter; anyone in the way is either an idiot, or roadkill.
  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    With the advent of the new lanes, though, I would like to see a lot of enforcement. Bike riders seem to come in three stripes: the few, who are grizzled vets of the city and can be trusted; some who are new and learning, but still don't quite have their peripheral vision or sense of dimension/speed/size down pat, and then people who seem to think that if they're not in a car things like lights, stop signs, pedestrians, and cars don't seem to matter; anyone in the way is either an idiot, or roadkill.

    I'm with this. Traffic laws need to be enforced.
  • dj_cityboydj_cityboy 1,478 Posts
    Halifax is slowly catching up with Bike lanes, not all of our roads have em yet, but they keep expanding raods for bikes lanes they never make....lol

    i couldnt imagine myself driving on our roads here....east coast drivers are the craziest!
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    With the advent of the new lanes, though, I would like to see a lot of enforcement. Bike riders seem to come in three stripes: the few, who are grizzled vets of the city and can be trusted; some who are new and learning, but still don't quite have their peripheral vision or sense of dimension/speed/size down pat, and then people who seem to think that if they're not in a car things like lights, stop signs, pedestrians, and cars don't seem to matter; anyone in the way is either an idiot, or roadkill.

    I'm with this. Traffic laws need to be enforced.

    I've seen guys Freaking The Fuck Out about getting a $100-somethin' bike ticket for a traffic infraction. The argument will be made that enforcing the laws vigilantly will cut down on bike riders. Which is like, fully harshing a progressive movement, man.
  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    I've seen guys Freaking The Fuck Out about getting a $100-somethin' bike ticket for a traffic infraction. The argument will be made that enforcing the laws vigilantly will cut down on bike riders. Which is like, fully harshing a progressive movement, man.

    IF I CAN'T BLOW RED LIGHTS ON MY BIKE THE TERRORISTS WIN! ATTICA!!1!
  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    DB_Cooper said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    With the advent of the new lanes, though, I would like to see a lot of enforcement. Bike riders seem to come in three stripes: the few, who are grizzled vets of the city and can be trusted; some who are new and learning, but still don't quite have their peripheral vision or sense of dimension/speed/size down pat, and then people who seem to think that if they're not in a car things like lights, stop signs, pedestrians, and cars don't seem to matter; anyone in the way is either an idiot, or roadkill.

    I'm with this. Traffic laws need to be enforced.

    I've seen guys Freaking The Fuck Out about getting a $100-somethin' bike ticket for a traffic infraction. The argument will be made that enforcing the laws vigilantly will cut down on bike riders. Which is like, fully harshing a progressive movement, man.

    While I mostly agree here, there's certain laws that are difficult to find value in vis-a-vis enforcement of street laws with bicyclists. Namely, if you are coming to a 4-way stop intersection (I'm mostly talking residential here) on a bike, and there's no cars in sight, and you either roll straight through the intersection without stopping or do a half-assed stop. Thankfully, I haven't received a ticket for this yet, but I have gotten stopped by cops twice and given warnings. I know folks who have gotten "popped" for this (yes, it does stay on your driving record) and it is indeed infuriating.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I should definitely be able to blow red lights and stop signs in my car if there's nobody coming in the opposite direction. I agree - stupid law.
  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    DOR said:
    This is our newly elected Mayor. Who promises to get rid of bike lanes.



    This dude making me want to move to Canada even more.
  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    I have a natural bias, but I'm sorry, I don't think bikes should have to obey all the same traffic rules as automobiles. One reason for this, selfish as a cyclist, but a reason nonetheless, is that when cycling in the city, it's much easier to be ahead of traffic away from the cars, and when you can (safely) go through a red light it can keep you ahead of traffic, which works well for everyone. I realize people will say this is absurd logic, but it makes sense when you're the one on a 25 lb exposed piece of metal, surrounded by 1.5 ton killing machines operated by people much more interested in their smart phones than their driving. Same goes for stop signs. Even more selfishly but just being realistic, it also often comes down to momentum. For a cyclist, momentum is everything, because the bicycle is powered by physical exertion, whereas a car is powered by a slight movement of your right foot (and maybe left if you drive a standard) - point being, coming to a complete stop at every stop sign and red light can make for a much more exhausting and unpleasant ride as opposed to being able to just keep on cruisin'. Again, I FULLY ADMIT UP FRONT that this is a selfish way of thinking about it, but I'm just letting you inside the mind of the biker.

    I mean, I am often able to make the 5 mile trip from Jamaica Plain in Boston, where I live, to Harvard Square, without stopping once. And I like it that way. I also know how to ride safely and not like an asshole, although I guess many of you would just call me an asshole immediately when you saw me run a stop sign, reckless or not. I was a bike messenger for years, so I guess I learned to ride "renegade style" but I also learned not to hurt myself or others riding that way, so I feel a certain sense of entitlement to ride as I please. Hate me now.

    To the point of the thread, bike lanes have recently been put all over the place in Boston/Cambridge, and I like them. I don't think they are a final solution to the problem, but I feel like there is a little more understood breathing room on the roads when I'm riding, and that's a good thing, because people around here pay zero attention to cyclists and before the bike lanes would crush you into a parked car without a second thought as they cruised right into you.
  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    SoulOnIce said:
    I have a natural bias, but I'm sorry, I don't think bikes should have to obey all the same traffic rules as automobiles. One reason for this, selfish as a cyclist, but a reason nonetheless, is that when cycling in the city, it's much easier to be ahead of traffic away from the cars, and when you can (safely) go through a red light it can keep you ahead of traffic, which works well for everyone. I realize people will say this is absurd logic, but it makes sense when you're the one on a 25 lb exposed piece of metal, surrounded by 1.5 ton killing machines operated by people much more interested in their smart phones than their driving. Same goes for stop signs. Even more selfishly but just being realistic, it also often comes down to momentum. For a cyclist, momentum is everything, because the bicycle is powered by physical exertion, whereas a car is powered by a slight movement of your right foot (and maybe left if you drive a standard) - point being, coming to a complete stop at every stop sign and red light can make for a much more exhausting and unpleasant ride as opposed to being able to just keep on cruisin'. Again, I FULLY ADMIT UP FRONT that this is a selfish way of thinking about it, but I'm just letting you inside the mind of the biker.

    I mean, I am often able to make the 5 mile trip from Jamaica Plain in Boston, where I live, to Harvard Square, without stopping once. And I like it that way. I also know how to ride safely and not like an asshole, although I guess many of you would just call me an asshole immediately when you saw me run a stop sign, reckless or not. I was a bike messenger for years, so I guess I learned to ride "renegade style" but I also learned not to hurt myself or others riding that way, so I feel a certain sense of entitlement to ride as I please. Hate me now.

    To the point of the thread, bike lanes have recently been put all over the place in Boston/Cambridge, and I like them. I don't think they are a final solution to the problem, but I feel like there is a little more understood breathing room on the roads when I'm riding, and that's a good thing, because people around here pay zero attention to cyclists and before the bike lanes would crush you into a parked car without a second thought as they cruised right into you.

    As a pedestrian, and purely from a selfish point of view, STOP AT THE DAMN STOP SIGN WHILE I CROSS IN THE CROSSWALK M***.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Every cyclist is going to say that they are very careful, and never run a red or a stop without being very sure nobody is coming, etc.

    Every car driver is going to say that they never futz with their phones, never drive slightly inebriated, always 100% mind on the road.

    I've had plenty of near-brushes with cyclists who turn without looking, run reds or stops, switch from one side of the street to the other without looking, or just stop dead in their tracks; in all cases it would've resulted in terrible injury for them. I don't understand why cyclists are so adamant about protecting their right to not obey the laws. It's in everybody's best interest, but mostly theirs.

    Dudes screaming "Share The Road!" while maintaining that they should be allowed to fly through crosswalks at high speeds are being totally contradictory. Can't have it both ways.
  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    Yeah, that's just it, though. I can have it both ways - cause nobody's going to stop me.

    Look, I see dudes riding like douches all the time. I used to "bomb" red lights in my courier days in reckless ways that I would never do now. But I am not stopping at every freaking stop sign that I come to, I'm just not. If that makes me an asshole or a hypocrite, oh well, I guess I am.
  • prof_rockwellprof_rockwell 2,867 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    With the advent of the new lanes, though, I would like to see a lot of enforcement. Bike riders seem to come in three stripes: the few, who are grizzled vets of the city and can be trusted; some who are new and learning, but still don't quite have their peripheral vision or sense of dimension/speed/size down pat, and then people who seem to think that if they're not in a car things like lights, stop signs, pedestrians, and cars don't seem to matter; anyone in the way is either an idiot, or roadkill.

    I'm with this. Traffic laws need to be enforced.

    I'm all for this just as soon as they start enforcing the jaywalking laws in NYC.
  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    prof_rockwell said:
    DB_Cooper said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    With the advent of the new lanes, though, I would like to see a lot of enforcement. Bike riders seem to come in three stripes: the few, who are grizzled vets of the city and can be trusted; some who are new and learning, but still don't quite have their peripheral vision or sense of dimension/speed/size down pat, and then people who seem to think that if they're not in a car things like lights, stop signs, pedestrians, and cars don't seem to matter; anyone in the way is either an idiot, or roadkill.

    I'm with this. Traffic laws need to be enforced.

    I'm all for this just as soon as they start enforcing the jaywalking laws in NYC.

    I'm not mad at that idea either.
  • dukeofdelridgedukeofdelridge urgent.monkey.mice 2,453 Posts
    half the bike lanes in Seattle are more dangerous than just getting buck out in the lanes.

    the rules are clear. they're just not enforced. I wish they were, I'd do less stupid shit on my bike if there was the possibility I'd get a ticket. I cannot be contained.
  • JahLarryJahLarry 62 Posts
    The WSJ article was interesting. I agree that enforcement / education are two necessary components here, it does seem in NYC that bike lanes sprout up sometimes without the necessary follow-up in terms of enforcement (signage, police presence). The downtown 2nd ave / 1st ave bike lanes in particular turn into turkish bazaars of wrong-way riding, clueless pedestrians and other such nonsense during busy periods.

    I have found myself respecting traffic laws more since the bike lanes came in. Still not perfect though.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    SoulOnIce said:
    Yeah, that's just it, though. I can have it both ways - cause nobody's going to stop me.

    Until you get slapped with a ticket and points...

    And to Rockwell's point, yeah. Pedestrian middle of the street strolling is out of hand in this town. I speed up when I see that. Make 'em scatter like pigeons. bwwaahahahahahaha
  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    SoulOnIce said:
    Yeah, that's just it, though. I can have it both ways - cause nobody's going to stop me.

    Until you get slapped with a ticket and points...

    again: not happening, sorry.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    SoulOnIce said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    SoulOnIce said:
    Yeah, that's just it, though. I can have it both ways - cause nobody's going to stop me.

    Until you get slapped with a ticket and points...

    again: not happening, sorry.

    Are you saying that because BPD isn't tripping or because you are a wiley rider?
  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    a little of both. BPD is pretty apathetic, Cambridge Police get aggro sometimes and set up stings in Central Square and stuff, but I have blown right by them without being pursued before. I'm mainly saying I have been riding a bike in this city for almost 25 years and never got a ticket, despite my so-called reckless riding.

    I want to bow out of this thread, I am just superstitious enough that I am starting to worry that all this BIG MAN talk is going to jinx me right through the windshield of a taxicab within the next 24 hours, haha.
  • The-gafflerThe-gaffler 2,190 Posts
    i fucking hate bike lanes here in dc. that is all.

    new york, have fun.
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