You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.
Pelvic Dust = MoeLarryandJesus right? Only MLJ is so stupid. Is it really that easy to get back in after being banned by just changing your name? I wish I had known that.
So you have disdain for bigots and their bigoted negative stereotypes of groups of people they don't care for, yet YOU negatively stereotype any group of people YOU don't care for....well, you're an idiot.
So you have disdain for bigots and their bigoted negative stereotypes of groups of people they don't care for, yet YOU negatively stereotype any group of people YOU don't care for....well, you're an idiot.
So you have disdain for bigots and their bigoted negative stereotypes of groups of people they don't care for, yet YOU negatively stereotype any group of people YOU don't care for....well, you're an idiot.
Why do you stereotype idiots?
Next you'll be going after the morons.
If you judge based on individual actions it's fact, not stereotypes.
ie: the people who choose* to live on the street, refuse to work (unless you consider panhandling "work") and generally make themselves a nuisance to the rest of society.
(*excluding minors who have been kicked out of their homes by their parents or who have had to flee parental abuse and excluding people who suffer from advanced and extreme, clinically recognized forms of mental illness, who are not responsible for their condition and should be taken off the street and placed into state funded institutional care facilities... a worthwhile use of taxpayer funds that you will find virtually no self-identified conservatives objecting to.)
There is a world of difference between providing subsidy and assistance (both privately donated and via state collected taxation) to those who, generally speaking, can not help themselves (the mentally ill and the extremely physically crippled) vs. providing subsidies (ie: "free money" taken from myself and others who work for a living and pay state and federal taxes) to able bodied deadbeats who most certainly are capable of advancing their station in life if they choose to make the effort to do so.
ie: the people who choose* to live on the street, refuse to work (unless you consider panhandling "work") and generally make themselves a nuisance to the rest of society.
(*excluding minors who have been kicked out of their homes by their parents or who have had to flee parental abuse and excluding people who suffer from advanced and extreme, clinically recognized forms of mental illness, who are not responsible for their condition and should be taken off the street and placed into state funded institutional care facilities... a worthwhile use of taxpayer funds that you will find virtually no self-identified conservatives objecting to.)
There is a world of difference between providing subsidy and assistance (both privately donated and via state collected taxation) to those who, generally speaking, can not help themselves (the mentally ill and the extremely physically crippled) vs. providing subsidies (ie: "free money" taken from myself and others who work for a living and pay state and federal taxes) to able bodied deadbeats who most certainly are capable of advancing their station in life if they choose to make the effort to do so.
Yeah, this is a hard one for sure. There are the "homeless" that choose a life on the streets to make a living and there are the truly homeless that are unable to make it in any way. Just a thought, but, maybe it is good to give someone who wants a handout the benefit of the doubt the first time they ask and then the next time you have a way in to ask them what their situation is and help in more beneficial ways especially if they are using the system or using you for money. But I think we should realize we are to give cheerfully, not to give based on whether or not we did or didn't let someone lie to us about why they needed money. We should give out of the goodness of our heart not based on character judgements of others. Though there are ways to be wise about how we give. Like if you are giving all of your cash to people on the streets that are turning that into smokes and alcohol it might be better to give that money to a single mom or a person that has a handicapped child at home. Point is that giving freely is never bad. Whether it is directly to a person or indirectly to the government to the person.
And PelvicDust and Sabahaba.... sorry if I came across like you thought. I don't think that I have any of this Christianity figured out yet. I live around some great people that I admire but personally I can't claim to be very good at this Christian stuff all the time. Guess that is why Jesus counts for me.
As far as being a Christian... however you VOTE does not determine whether you are a true Christian. It's your heart... my bad that it came off as though I thought if you voted this way or that that you are in God's favor or not. Seriously, my bad. Like I said, I'm not perfect at this.
^ I'm glad you're being thoughtful about homeless people. Not enough are. Or at least, they're glib about the homeless. (EDIT: I was replying to LE, not InnerSpace)
I've got some questions, and these aren't directed solely at you, LE...
The natural question then is, how do you separate the worthy from the unworthy when someone asks you for a dollar?
Also, how what proportion of the homeless do people imagine are geuninely "no-good deadbeats" who don't deserve (rather, who don't need) help? Do you think it's a high proportion? Does anyone here personally know a homeless person who is on the street, and if so, do you know that they don't have any critical health or social issues that put them there, and that they are taking advantage of the system? I'm just curious about how we form our judgements of the homeless.
I'm glad that LE recognized that society should care for those who are homeless because of health issues, and I do hope that the conservative movement also embraces this perspective. More to think about that here:
I can assure you there are lots of Christians in the trenches.
Good to hear that you are, man. I wish there were more Christians here in West Texas like this. Fact is that there are not or there at the very least there is just a few.
In NY they passed Kenda's law to allow for forced treatment of mentally ill. Prior to that there was no way to get the mentally ill off the street. Which was just the most ass-backward civil liberties argument I can think of.
In NY they passed Kenda's law to allow for forced treatment of mentally ill. Prior to that there was no way to get the mentally ill off the street. Which was just the most ass-backward civil liberties argument I can think of.
Try and give something to everyone who asks.
This is a very serious problem.
Anyone who has dealt with a family member suffering from bi-polar, drug addiction or other mental illness knows that in most states it is near impossible to get help for someone who is irrational (refuses help).
Even when someone is ready for help, access to mental health care can be difficult to get.
Quality care even more so.
A shockingly large number of homeless (often mentally ill and drug addicted) are vets.
The VA has great programs for the mentally ill and drug addicted and homeless transition, but not near enough capacity. So vets wanting help often can't get it.
I heard that DC, has a court ordered commitment program that works fairly well.
Probation with required mental health care (you must take your medicine and see your health professional or stay in a rehab program and stay clean.) if you fail the terms of probation then you face jail time. Guy on the radio said it works well.
I heard that DC, has a court ordered commitment program that works fairly well.
Probation with required mental health care (you must take your medicine and see your health professional or stay in a rehab program and stay clean.) if you fail the terms of probation then you face jail time. Guy on the radio said it works well.
Except for the part about dumping mentally ill people into prisons, which is far too common.
I heard that DC, has a court ordered commitment program that works fairly well.
Probation with required mental health care (you must take your medicine and see your health professional or stay in a rehab program and stay clean.) if you fail the terms of probation then you face jail time. Guy on the radio said it works well.
Except for the part about dumping mentally ill people into prisons, which is far too common.
I would think that if one were a mentally ill homeless person arrested for your basic garden variety non-violent homeless person type crime. Then a few months where you actually might get the attention you need wouldn't be so horrible, considering the alternatives.
^ I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that prisons are hellholes! I don't think putting a mentally ill person in a prison is the most efficacious way to cure them of their problems. Mental health facilities in the past were also not very conducive to treatment, which led to a widespread de-institutionalization movemement over the last couple of decades.
I've seen some fascinating examples of how a combination of institute- and community-based occupational therapy to care for people dealing with mental illness can be of help. EDIT: It seems to be the combo of care provision (institutes), independence ($$ and a place to call home), routine (often enforced...home might have to be a halfway house for a while) and productivity (the ocupation part of it) that works.
I heard that DC, has a court ordered commitment program that works fairly well.
Probation with required mental health care (you must take your medicine and see your health professional or stay in a rehab program and stay clean.) if you fail the terms of probation then you face jail time. Guy on the radio said it works well.
Except for the part about dumping mentally ill people into prisons, which is far too common.
I would think that if one were a mentally ill homeless person arrested for your basic garden variety non-violent homeless person type crime. Then a few months where you actually might get the attention you need wouldn't be so horrible, considering the alternatives.
Mental health care in prisons is generally atrocious. I have no problem with involuntary commitment to actual psychiatric care facilities, though, in these kinds of circumstances.
^ I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that prisons are hellholes! I don't think putting a mentally ill person in a prison is the most efficacious way to cure them of their problems. Mental health facilities in the past were also not very conducive to treatment, which led to a widespread de-institutionalization movemement over the last couple of decades.
I've seen some fascinating examples of how a combination of institute- and community-based occupational therapy to care for people dealing with mental illness can be of help. EDIT: It seems to be the combo of care provision (institutes), independence ($$ and a palce to call home), routine (often enforced) and productivity (the ocupation part of it) that works.
^ I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that prisons are hellholes! I don't think putting a mentally ill person in a prison is the most efficacious way to cure them of their problems. Mental health facilities in the past were also not very conducive to treatment, which led to a widespread de-institutionalization movemement over the last couple of decades.
I've seen some fascinating examples of how a combination of institute- and community-based occupational therapy to care for people dealing with mental illness can be of help.
I agree. I'm just saying that 6 months in a hell-hole that may lead to treatment (and I admit that it more than likely may not) might be better than 10 years wandering the streets, eating garbage, and then death.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
InnerSpace said:
DCarfagna said:
So you are always going on and on about the Christian lifestyle you strive to live, about the charitable example that Jesus provided, yet when it comes to helping the less fortunate with something like their healthcare or education, you refuse to part with your "hard earned money"...I believe you are not truly a Christian and most likely you are an idiot.
Agreed. I work at a church in West Texas and this is the f-ing disease here. I hate that liberals are the proverbial devil and conservatives are the only spawn of Jesus. Yet most "Christian Patriots" here refuse to work in the trenches of the homeless or give a hand to a neighbor/government assisted person or even cross paths with the "tax collectors" of our day. It is mindblowing that our pastor this weekend called us out on all of this stuff and reminded us that Jesus was harshly ridiculed by the Jews of the day for eating and drinking with the sinners and furthermore stated that even foxes have holes, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head... so in other words, the people I live around here would refuse to help homeless Jesus. It is a travesty what Christians are living for these days = bigger churches, indoor coffee shops in the church and slick services and have denied the less fortunate by voting against healthcare or educational reforms to just name a few things.
Jesus ask the rich young ruler to part with his "hard earned money" and the dude walked away. These are sad times....
But I know that there are real Christians out there... I live among a small few of them everyday and there is some hope.
What about all of the hard-working Latino families that are in most cases Catholic and not fitting your dsescription of West Texas Christians at all?
So you are always going on and on about the Christian lifestyle you strive to live, about the charitable example that Jesus provided, yet when it comes to helping the less fortunate with something like their healthcare or education, you refuse to part with your "hard earned money"...I believe you are not truly a Christian and most likely you are an idiot.
Agreed. I work at a church in West Texas and this is the f-ing disease here. I hate that liberals are the proverbial devil and conservatives are the only spawn of Jesus. Yet most "Christian Patriots" here refuse to work in the trenches of the homeless or give a hand to a neighbor/government assisted person or even cross paths with the "tax collectors" of our day. It is mindblowing that our pastor this weekend called us out on all of this stuff and reminded us that Jesus was harshly ridiculed by the Jews of the day for eating and drinking with the sinners and furthermore stated that even foxes have holes, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head... so in other words, the people I live around here would refuse to help homeless Jesus. It is a travesty what Christians are living for these days = bigger churches, indoor coffee shops in the church and slick services and have denied the less fortunate by voting against healthcare or educational reforms to just name a few things.
Jesus ask the rich young ruler to part with his "hard earned money" and the dude walked away. These are sad times....
But I know that there are real Christians out there... I live among a small few of them everyday and there is some hope.
What about all of the hard-working Latino families that are in most cases Catholic and not fitting your dsescription of West Texas Christians at all?
Today's hardworking latino families are tomorrow's conservatives.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
sabadabada said:
HarveyCanal said:
InnerSpace said:
DCarfagna said:
So you are always going on and on about the Christian lifestyle you strive to live, about the charitable example that Jesus provided, yet when it comes to helping the less fortunate with something like their healthcare or education, you refuse to part with your "hard earned money"...I believe you are not truly a Christian and most likely you are an idiot.
Agreed. I work at a church in West Texas and this is the f-ing disease here. I hate that liberals are the proverbial devil and conservatives are the only spawn of Jesus. Yet most "Christian Patriots" here refuse to work in the trenches of the homeless or give a hand to a neighbor/government assisted person or even cross paths with the "tax collectors" of our day. It is mindblowing that our pastor this weekend called us out on all of this stuff and reminded us that Jesus was harshly ridiculed by the Jews of the day for eating and drinking with the sinners and furthermore stated that even foxes have holes, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head... so in other words, the people I live around here would refuse to help homeless Jesus. It is a travesty what Christians are living for these days = bigger churches, indoor coffee shops in the church and slick services and have denied the less fortunate by voting against healthcare or educational reforms to just name a few things.
Jesus ask the rich young ruler to part with his "hard earned money" and the dude walked away. These are sad times....
But I know that there are real Christians out there... I live among a small few of them everyday and there is some hope.
What about all of the hard-working Latino families that are in most cases Catholic and not fitting your dsescription of West Texas Christians at all?
Today's hardworking latino families are tomorrow's conservatives.
So you are always going on and on about the Christian lifestyle you strive to live, about the charitable example that Jesus provided, yet when it comes to helping the less fortunate with something like their healthcare or education, you refuse to part with your "hard earned money"...I believe you are not truly a Christian and most likely you are an idiot.
Agreed. I work at a church in West Texas and this is the f-ing disease here. I hate that liberals are the proverbial devil and conservatives are the only spawn of Jesus. Yet most "Christian Patriots" here refuse to work in the trenches of the homeless or give a hand to a neighbor/government assisted person or even cross paths with the "tax collectors" of our day. It is mindblowing that our pastor this weekend called us out on all of this stuff and reminded us that Jesus was harshly ridiculed by the Jews of the day for eating and drinking with the sinners and furthermore stated that even foxes have holes, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head... so in other words, the people I live around here would refuse to help homeless Jesus. It is a travesty what Christians are living for these days = bigger churches, indoor coffee shops in the church and slick services and have denied the less fortunate by voting against healthcare or educational reforms to just name a few things.
Jesus ask the rich young ruler to part with his "hard earned money" and the dude walked away. These are sad times....
But I know that there are real Christians out there... I live among a small few of them everyday and there is some hope.
What about all of the hard-working Latino families that are in most cases Catholic and not fitting your dsescription of West Texas Christians at all?
Today's hardworking latino families are tomorrow's conservatives.
GW understood this and went after the Latino vote. Effectively.
They are conservatives today. But they vote Democrat.
Janet Brewer, Sara Palin, Tancredo, Mitch Mcconell, and the rest of todays R leadership have guaranteed that it will be years before Latinos vote Republican again. Even Miami Cuban immigrants are leaving the party.
The same is true for African Americans.
Many of whom are very Christian and conservative on social issues.
But totally alienated from the Republican party.
Comments
Pelvic Dust = MoeLarryandJesus right? Only MLJ is so stupid. Is it really that easy to get back in after being banned by just changing your name? I wish I had known that.
Typical Texas response.
Why do you stereotype idiots?
Next you'll be going after the morons.
If you judge based on individual actions it's fact, not stereotypes.
Don't take it so personal.
I can assure you there are lots of Christians in the trenches.
I also meet "Christians" every day that value revenge over forgiveness and hate over love.
Some good, some bad. Kinda like everyone else.
ie: the people who choose* to live on the street, refuse to work (unless you consider panhandling "work") and generally make themselves a nuisance to the rest of society.
(*excluding minors who have been kicked out of their homes by their parents or who have had to flee parental abuse and excluding people who suffer from advanced and extreme, clinically recognized forms of mental illness, who are not responsible for their condition and should be taken off the street and placed into state funded institutional care facilities... a worthwhile use of taxpayer funds that you will find virtually no self-identified conservatives objecting to.)
There is a world of difference between providing subsidy and assistance (both privately donated and via state collected taxation) to those who, generally speaking, can not help themselves (the mentally ill and the extremely physically crippled) vs. providing subsidies (ie: "free money" taken from myself and others who work for a living and pay state and federal taxes) to able bodied deadbeats who most certainly are capable of advancing their station in life if they choose to make the effort to do so.
Yeah, this is a hard one for sure. There are the "homeless" that choose a life on the streets to make a living and there are the truly homeless that are unable to make it in any way. Just a thought, but, maybe it is good to give someone who wants a handout the benefit of the doubt the first time they ask and then the next time you have a way in to ask them what their situation is and help in more beneficial ways especially if they are using the system or using you for money. But I think we should realize we are to give cheerfully, not to give based on whether or not we did or didn't let someone lie to us about why they needed money. We should give out of the goodness of our heart not based on character judgements of others. Though there are ways to be wise about how we give. Like if you are giving all of your cash to people on the streets that are turning that into smokes and alcohol it might be better to give that money to a single mom or a person that has a handicapped child at home. Point is that giving freely is never bad. Whether it is directly to a person or indirectly to the government to the person.
And PelvicDust and Sabahaba.... sorry if I came across like you thought. I don't think that I have any of this Christianity figured out yet. I live around some great people that I admire but personally I can't claim to be very good at this Christian stuff all the time. Guess that is why Jesus counts for me.
As far as being a Christian... however you VOTE does not determine whether you are a true Christian. It's your heart... my bad that it came off as though I thought if you voted this way or that that you are in God's favor or not. Seriously, my bad. Like I said, I'm not perfect at this.
I've got some questions, and these aren't directed solely at you, LE...
The natural question then is, how do you separate the worthy from the unworthy when someone asks you for a dollar?
Also, how what proportion of the homeless do people imagine are geuninely "no-good deadbeats" who don't deserve (rather, who don't need) help? Do you think it's a high proportion? Does anyone here personally know a homeless person who is on the street, and if so, do you know that they don't have any critical health or social issues that put them there, and that they are taking advantage of the system? I'm just curious about how we form our judgements of the homeless.
I'm glad that LE recognized that society should care for those who are homeless because of health issues, and I do hope that the conservative movement also embraces this perspective. More to think about that here:
http://www.stmichaelshospital.com/pdf/crich/homelessness-health.pdf
ps. Forgetting the actual opinions being expressed, this is one of the ugliest threads I've seen here in a while - so many juvenile idiots.
Good to hear that you are, man. I wish there were more Christians here in West Texas like this. Fact is that there are not or there at the very least there is just a few.
Try and give something to everyone who asks.
This is a very serious problem.
Anyone who has dealt with a family member suffering from bi-polar, drug addiction or other mental illness knows that in most states it is near impossible to get help for someone who is irrational (refuses help).
Even when someone is ready for help, access to mental health care can be difficult to get.
Quality care even more so.
A shockingly large number of homeless (often mentally ill and drug addicted) are vets.
The VA has great programs for the mentally ill and drug addicted and homeless transition, but not near enough capacity. So vets wanting help often can't get it.
I heard that DC, has a court ordered commitment program that works fairly well.
Probation with required mental health care (you must take your medicine and see your health professional or stay in a rehab program and stay clean.) if you fail the terms of probation then you face jail time. Guy on the radio said it works well.
Except for the part about dumping mentally ill people into prisons, which is far too common.
I would think that if one were a mentally ill homeless person arrested for your basic garden variety non-violent homeless person type crime. Then a few months where you actually might get the attention you need wouldn't be so horrible, considering the alternatives.
I've seen some fascinating examples of how a combination of institute- and community-based occupational therapy to care for people dealing with mental illness can be of help. EDIT: It seems to be the combo of care provision (institutes), independence ($$ and a place to call home), routine (often enforced...home might have to be a halfway house for a while) and productivity (the ocupation part of it) that works.
Mental health care in prisons is generally atrocious. I have no problem with involuntary commitment to actual psychiatric care facilities, though, in these kinds of circumstances.
Do you work at St. Mike's?
I agree. I'm just saying that 6 months in a hell-hole that may lead to treatment (and I admit that it more than likely may not) might be better than 10 years wandering the streets, eating garbage, and then death.
What about all of the hard-working Latino families that are in most cases Catholic and not fitting your dsescription of West Texas Christians at all?
Today's hardworking latino families are tomorrow's conservatives.
Wasn't asking you...but thanks.
Yeah, I'm at CRICH.
GW understood this and went after the Latino vote. Effectively.
They are conservatives today. But they vote Democrat.
Janet Brewer, Sara Palin, Tancredo, Mitch Mcconell, and the rest of todays R leadership have guaranteed that it will be years before Latinos vote Republican again. Even Miami Cuban immigrants are leaving the party.
congressmen
Many of whom are very Christian and conservative on social issues.
But totally alienated from the Republican party.
Saba for congress! I'd vote.