this entire thread is why i try to avoid racial discussions on soulstrut ...people are so ready to attack that they twist words or just make up shit that was never said ...
i am not Native American so i don't speak for Native Americans....but i do know that a large number of Native Americans do not find the team names offensive.... and in my opinion it is because these are NOT blatantly offensive names PERIOD..... these team names IMO can be without question accepted as tribute to the Natives ....but if a Native takes offense to the names that's understandable also...it's an individual judgement ....you CANT tell me the names Braves,Warriors,Seminole,Chiefs are offensive ..they are an obvious tribute.....
Indians & Redskins are offensive depending on interpretation.....these are not necessarily derogatory terms THEY CAN BE.. BUT NOT NECESSARILY...there is no debate the terms Kike,Nigger,Wetbacks are offensive ...so get that argument the fuck outta here Mr. Graf .....
without question the images/mascots are EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE/RACIST and should be replaced...
and why are we comparing racist images...why when we discuss one racial group somehow the term Nigger always comes up ....WE AINT TALKIN ABOUT NIGGAS...SO STOP BRINGIN UP NIGGAS....and who said they were offended by the Minstrel and not the Indian ????? ARE YOU GUYS MAKING SHIT UP AGAIN !??!
LASTLY....IS THIS NOT AN OFFENSIVE STEREOTYPE ?????
why was i comparing images? it is a simplification i admit, but for some people, visuals work better than words. I'm just making parallels to make a point, sorry if you dont see it as a valid one.
Braves,Warriors,Seminole,Chiefs are offensive ..they are an obvious tribute.....
That may be true, but when you see fans doing a "tomohawk chop" in relation to their team logo at a phucking baseball game, that does cheapen their honour a tad bit. it would be like a team calling themselves the Black Panthers and doing the fist in the air as a salute. Name your team after a phucking animal or lightning or something, keep people's tradition and culture out of it, or at least don't cheapen it like a product. you make a good point with Notre Dame.
You have to be rather ignorant to understand how the Minstrel stuff could be offensive but fail to grasp why "Redskin" would be.
please tell me when this was said ???....i read this entire thread and i just dont see it...maybe i missed something
it wasn't said anywhere. it was me pointing out there is an issue, and perhaps if people look at it in a different light they can see the severity(is that a word) of it.
there's something beyond patronizing about a culture that slaughters another culture, takes its land, then sticks the survivors on reservations...and whose descendants and inheritors, years later, think it's perfectly okay???ennobling, even???to use images of the defeated culture for team names and mascots in "tribute" to the nobility, grace, warrior spirit, etc., of the defeated ones...
Come say that to my Indian kids motherfucker and it won't just be them that whups your ass.
day..
If that shit pisses some native americans off, then I'm sorry. Sorry in the most sincere manner. I'm not about "hate". I'm not trying to offend anybdoy, like "nigger" and "wetback" were meant to do.
Seriously go back and learn some shit before you spout off Roy. Savage is a very notorious word in the history of this country. It was used to define natives as less than human; therefore making it ok for white folks like good ol' Andy Jackson to slaughter large numbers of them indiscriminately, and ship their children to forced schools/prisons where the were tortured and "Americanized' (beaten for speaking their original language, names) To pretend that these words do not hold heavy historical connotations is just plain ign'ant sheeyit. Names like Seminole do not bother me because is is an actual regional name of a group of people; but seriously it's time to scratch shit like Redskin and Savage from our cultural lexicon. In order to move forward you have to deal with the ignorance and wrongs of the past.
there's something beyond patronizing about a culture that slaughters another culture, takes its land, then sticks the survivors on reservations...and whose descendants and inheritors, years later, think it's perfectly okay???ennobling, even???to use images of the defeated culture for team names and mascots in "tribute" to the nobility, grace, warrior spirit, etc., of the defeated ones...
What he said. There is an exception for schools like UNC- Pembroke (i think this was the name) which are traditionally "indian" schools. They will be allowed to keep there indian mascot and nickname (Warriors) because it clearly is a tribute from a people to themselves. I am not sure how Notre Dame came up with their moniker but it would also be acceptable if this were the case in South Bend. Just like I got no problems with these examples:
Indians & Redskins are offensive depending on interpretation.....these are not necessarily derogatory terms THEY CAN BE.. BUT NOT NECESSARILY...there is no debate the terms Kike,Nigger,Wetbacks are offensive ...so get that argument the fuck outta here Mr. Graf .....
Indian, maybe not, but I don't see how redskin wouldn't be offensive. I wouldn't name a team the brownskins.
LASTLY....IS THIS NOT AN OFFENSIVE STEREOTYPE ?????
Probably. Actually a lot of Irish people take offense to the "drunken leprechaun" stereotype. So I would toss that one in the ring as well.
Names like Seminole do not bother me because is is an actual regional name of a group of people; but seriously it's time to scratch shit like Redskin and Savage from our cultural lexicon.
Just using a given name isn't offensive I would say. Even the FSU logo isn't a characture that I can tell. The whole tomahawk chops and shit is corny though.
All I'm saying is to be fair - it makes no sense to be all about putting down stereotypes and images of one group but not the other.
Indians & Redskins are offensive depending on interpretation.....these are not necessarily derogatory terms THEY CAN BE.. BUT NOT NECESSARILY...there is no debate the terms Kike,Nigger,Wetbacks are offensive ...so get that argument the fuck outta here Mr. Graf .....
Indian, maybe not, but I don't see how redskin wouldn't be offensive. I wouldn't name a team the brownskins.
LASTLY....IS THIS NOT AN OFFENSIVE STEREOTYPE ?????
Probably. Actually a lot of Irish people take offense to the "drunken leprechaun" stereotype. So I would toss that one in the ring as well.
the irish round here LOVE that thing. LOVE it. Love Notre Dame. Love the little Leprechauns.
A pretty warlike, savage and barbaric white man, complete with blond hair and, I would assume, blue eyes. I'm not trying to make a point, I just wonder what you dudes think about this and how it relates to some of the Native American team names like "Chiefs", "Braves", "Warriors", etc.
Good one. Im about 100% swedish, my ancestors were vikings and were NOT barbarians, they were farmers. This shit pisses me off, I don't like my ancestors being portrayed as savage warriors. The Minnesota Vikings front office will be getting a letter from me asap. That shit has gotta go.
Hey, Nimrod, your ancestors are portrayed as tennis-playing engineers of quirky yet stylish cars who buy pine furniture.
Good one. Im about 100% swedish, my ancestors were vikings and were NOT barbarians, they were farmers. This shit pisses me off, I don't like my ancestors being portrayed as savage warriors. The Minnesota Vikings front office will be getting a letter from me asap. That shit has gotta go.
man you talk shit...your ancestors, NOT your grandfather. You don't know shit about what they were doing because there's NO trace from that period other than what we know. That's why it's called "the Dark Ages". White Historians wiped it under the rug. But don't be mad, you ancestors was vikings, so they was rapist, thiefs, robbers, etc...
Mine probably was too, and i can't do shit about it. Swallow the pill.
I didn't take over anybody's country. Excuse me for being born here.
And is "Indian" really considered offensive now?
Farmer: Get off my land. Me: What makes it your land? F: It was my daddys land. M: What made it his land? F: It was his daddys land. M: What made it his land? F: He fought the Indians for it. M: Good! I'll fight you for it now.
I didn't take over anybody's country. Excuse me for being born here.
And is "Indian" really considered offensive now?
Like you I was born here. Like you neither I nor members of my family were involved with taking land from Native people.
So the difference is you see the genocide of Native Americans as something that happened long ago and doesn't concern you. I on the other hand feel that it is my obligation to try to set past wrongs right.
You see the continued mistreatment of Native Americans as just the way things have always been. I see it as an injustice that needs to be corrected.
You see the new NCAA rules as just another over the top, knee jerk attempt at political correctness. I see it as a very limited response to decades of complaints from.... guess who?... Native Americans! Thats right Roy! Native Americans, for many decades, have been complaining about the offensive depiction of themselves by sports teams. Now the NCAA has made a very limited response to the complaints.
So retard* deal with it.
Dan
*A retard recently wrote that retard is not an offensive word.
A pretty warlike, savage and barbaric white man, complete with blond hair and, I would assume, blue eyes. I'm not trying to make a point, I just wonder what you dudes think about this and how it relates to some of the Native American team names like "Chiefs", "Braves", "Warriors", etc.
Good one. Im about 100% swedish, my ancestors were vikings and were NOT barbarians, they were farmers. This shit pisses me off, I don't like my ancestors being portrayed as savage warriors. The Minnesota Vikings front office will be getting a letter from me asap. That shit has gotta go.
Man, I was so accurate in my prediction of this response.
Comments
THIS IS GETTING OUT OF FUCKIN' HAND!!!!!!!!!!
that was tongue in cheek, Ed knows I'm just being ridiculous.
why was i comparing images? it is a simplification i admit, but for some people, visuals work better than words. I'm just making parallels to make a point, sorry if you dont see it as a valid one.
That may be true, but when you see fans doing a "tomohawk chop" in relation to their team logo at a phucking baseball game, that does cheapen their honour a tad bit. it would be like a team calling themselves the Black Panthers and doing the fist in the air as a salute. Name your team after a phucking animal or lightning or something, keep people's tradition and culture out of it, or at least don't cheapen it like a product. you make a good point with Notre Dame.
it wasn't said anywhere. it was me pointing out there is an issue, and perhaps if people look at it in a different light they can see the severity(is that a word) of it.
peace
Ummm, Savages seems kind of Blatant.
Seriously go back and learn some shit before you spout off Roy. Savage is a very notorious word in the history of this country. It was used to define natives as less than human; therefore making it ok for white folks like good ol' Andy Jackson to slaughter large numbers of them indiscriminately, and ship their children to forced schools/prisons where the were tortured and "Americanized' (beaten for speaking their original language, names) To pretend that these words do not hold heavy historical connotations is just plain ign'ant sheeyit. Names like Seminole do not bother me because is is an actual regional name of a group of people; but seriously it's time to scratch shit like Redskin and Savage from our cultural lexicon. In order to move forward you have to deal with the ignorance and wrongs of the past.
What he said. There is an exception for schools like UNC- Pembroke (i think this was the name) which are traditionally "indian" schools. They will be allowed to keep there indian mascot and nickname (Warriors) because it clearly is a tribute from a people to themselves. I am not sure how Notre Dame came up with their moniker but it would also be acceptable if this were the case in South Bend. Just like I got no problems with these examples:
Local Philly Squad
so fucking gangster!
Indian, maybe not, but I don't see how redskin wouldn't be offensive. I wouldn't name a team the brownskins.
Probably. Actually a lot of Irish people take offense to the "drunken leprechaun" stereotype. So I would toss that one in the ring as well.
Just using a given name isn't offensive I would say. Even the FSU logo isn't a characture that I can tell. The whole tomahawk chops and shit is corny though.
All I'm saying is to be fair - it makes no sense to be all about putting down stereotypes and images of one group but not the other.
the irish round here LOVE that thing. LOVE it. Love Notre Dame. Love the little Leprechauns.
A pretty warlike, savage and barbaric white man, complete with blond hair and, I would assume, blue eyes. I'm not trying to make a point, I just wonder what you dudes think about this and how it relates to some of the Native American team names like "Chiefs", "Braves", "Warriors", etc.
Hey, Nimrod, your ancestors are portrayed as tennis-playing engineers of quirky yet stylish cars who buy pine furniture.
Go back to rhetoric class.
man you talk shit...your ancestors, NOT your grandfather. You don't know shit about what they were doing because there's NO trace from that period other than what we know. That's why it's called "the Dark Ages". White Historians wiped it under the rug. But don't be mad, you ancestors was vikings, so they was rapist, thiefs, robbers, etc...
Mine probably was too, and i can't do shit about it. Swallow the pill.
Farmer: Get off my land.
Me: What makes it your land?
F: It was my daddys land.
M: What made it his land?
F: It was his daddys land.
M: What made it his land?
F: He fought the Indians for it.
M: Good! I'll fight you for it now.
Like you I was born here. Like you neither I nor members of my family were involved with taking land from Native people.
So the difference is you see the genocide of Native Americans as something that happened long ago and doesn't concern you. I on the other hand feel that it is my obligation to try to set past wrongs right.
You see the continued mistreatment of Native Americans as just the way things have always been. I see it as an injustice that needs to be corrected.
You see the new NCAA rules as just another over the top, knee jerk attempt at political correctness. I see it as a very limited response to decades of complaints from.... guess who?... Native Americans! Thats right Roy! Native Americans, for many decades, have been complaining about the offensive depiction of themselves by sports teams. Now the NCAA has made a very limited response to the complaints.
So retard* deal with it.
Dan
*A retard recently wrote that retard is not an offensive word.
Man, I was so accurate in my prediction of this response.
My mother-in-law bought me the Hebrews jersey. Sick Sick Sick.
NCAA does something right for once.
People aren't sure that the term "Indians" is offensive.
Roy is a complete ass, who likes to get a rise out of other people by insulting members of the first nation.
Yeah, I'm sure I could have handled it in a grown and suave way ala Dan or Monty, but nah.
I look at it like you're disrespecting my family so you get what you give.
Be thankful my wife didn't post.