Here's the way I've always understood it; when people listen to music, it's a personal, individual experience, right? Everyone reacts to music in different ways - can we agree on that much? OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them? Why do some people get so upset at the thought that other people's relationship to music may differ from theirs, to the extent that they'll assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?
Feel free to discuss, or alternately, K.I.M.
Because many people use music as a measuring stick for how hip/cool/down they are.
Over the years I've seen this in the realm of Industrial/Experimental/Free Jazz.
"I'm so hip I listen to the unlistenable"
TOP THAT MOFO!!!!
you do realize that your feelings towards people into the styles of music you listed above are pretty much what docmccoy is talking about, right?
I think you misunderstood my post.
Doc asked us to discuss why some people belittle or scoff at what others listen to.
I'm suggesting it's a game of oneupmanship.
At the bottom we have folks who listen to commercial pop music.....then we have folks who scoff at them because THEY listen to "deeper" less commercial music.....and the next guy listens to undergound music and scoffs at dude #2...
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
I dont listen to music at all!!!! Top That Shit. All that recycled shit u think is so deep is for the birds. I listen to nature!!!!!!
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
I'm telling all the "Ethnic" collectors on waxidermy how you really feel!
Here's the way I've always understood it; when people listen to music, it's a personal, individual experience, right? Everyone reacts to music in different ways - can we agree on that much? OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them? Why do some people get so upset at the thought that other people's relationship to music may differ from theirs, to the extent that they'll assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?
Feel free to discuss, or alternately, K.I.M.
Because many people use music as a measuring stick for how hip/cool/down they are.
Over the years I've seen this in the realm of Industrial/Experimental/Free Jazz.
"I'm so hip I listen to the unlistenable"
TOP THAT MOFO!!!!
you do realize that your feelings towards people into the styles of music you listed above are pretty much what docmccoy is talking about, right?
I think you misunderstood my post.
Doc asked us to discuss why some people belittle or scoff at what others listen to.
I'm suggesting it's a game of oneupmanship.
At the bottom we have folks who listen to commercial pop music.....then we have folks who scoff at them because THEY listen to "deeper" less commercial music.....and the next guy listens to undergound music and scoffs at dude #2...
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
so where does you calling what other people genuinely enjoy "unlistenable" and, more importantly, suggesting they only listen to it to be one up on other folks fit into this belittiling/ scoffing scenario?
what about those of us who enjoy some of that stuff and some commercial pop music and don't give a fuck about some imagined hierarchy?
"unlistenable" is in the ear of each listener. an endless stream of private press ineptitude, fuzzed out rock, southern rock, and plenty of other stuff does nothing for me at all. i wouldn't question others for enjoying it though.
OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them?
It's not that they should have the same experience, it's that they should have more experience before forming opinions on what is actually good in a given genre, since they can only choose what they like from amongst what they've heard.
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
I'm telling all the "Ethnic" collectors on waxidermy how you really feel!
Here's the way I've always understood it; when people listen to music, it's a personal, individual experience, right? Everyone reacts to music in different ways - can we agree on that much? OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them? Why do some people get so upset at the thought that other people's relationship to music may differ from theirs, to the extent that they'll assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?
Feel free to discuss, or alternately, K.I.M.
Because many people use music as a measuring stick for how hip/cool/down they are.
Over the years I've seen this in the realm of Industrial/Experimental/Free Jazz.
"I'm so hip I listen to the unlistenable"
TOP THAT MOFO!!!!
you do realize that your feelings towards people into the styles of music you listed above are pretty much what docmccoy is talking about, right?
I think you misunderstood my post.
Doc asked us to discuss why some people belittle or scoff at what others listen to.
I'm suggesting it's a game of oneupmanship.
At the bottom we have folks who listen to commercial pop music.....then we have folks who scoff at them because THEY listen to "deeper" less commercial music.....and the next guy listens to undergound music and scoffs at dude #2...
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
so where does you calling what other people genuinely enjoy "unlistenable" and, more importantly, suggesting they only listen to it to be one up on other folks fit into this belittiling/ scoffing scenario?
what about those of us who enjoy some of that stuff and some commercial pop music and don't give a fuck about some imagined hierarchy?
"unlistenable" is in the ear of each listener. an endless stream of private press ineptitude, fuzzed out rock, southern rock, and plenty of other stuff does nothing for me at all. i wouldn't question others for enjoying it though.
Tell you what.....I gave my theory as to why people "assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?"[/b] which is what Doc was asking for.
In my life experience I have seen some record collectors and music fanatics play the "one up" game......ESPECIALLY in the hard rock/psych genre.
I used the "unlistenable" quote as an extreme example, and yes, I believe some folks indeed do just that.
You don't agree with it.....fine.
Why do YOU think that folks do this(Yeah, you told us that YOU don't...I get that).
Or do you not think this happens at all and that Doc's question is bogus?
Here's the way I've always understood it; when people listen to music, it's a personal, individual experience, right? Everyone reacts to music in different ways - can we agree on that much? OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them? Why do some people get so upset at the thought that other people's relationship to music may differ from theirs, to the extent that they'll assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?
Feel free to discuss, or alternately, K.I.M.
Because many people use music as a measuring stick for how hip/cool/down they are.
Over the years I've seen this in the realm of Industrial/Experimental/Free Jazz.
"I'm so hip I listen to the unlistenable"
TOP THAT MOFO!!!!
you do realize that your feelings towards people into the styles of music you listed above are pretty much what docmccoy is talking about, right?
I think you misunderstood my post.
Doc asked us to discuss why some people belittle or scoff at what others listen to.
I'm suggesting it's a game of oneupmanship.
At the bottom we have folks who listen to commercial pop music.....then we have folks who scoff at them because THEY listen to "deeper" less commercial music.....and the next guy listens to undergound music and scoffs at dude #2...
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
so where does you calling what other people genuinely enjoy "unlistenable" and, more importantly, suggesting they only listen to it to be one up on other folks fit into this belittiling/ scoffing scenario?
what about those of us who enjoy some of that stuff and some commercial pop music and don't give a fuck about some imagined hierarchy?
"unlistenable" is in the ear of each listener. an endless stream of private press ineptitude, fuzzed out rock, southern rock, and plenty of other stuff does nothing for me at all. i wouldn't question others for enjoying it though.
Tell you what.....I gave my theory as to why people "assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?"[/b] which is what Doc was asking for.
In my life experience I have seen some record collectors and music fanatics play the "one up" game......ESPECIALLY in the hard rock/psych genre.
I used the "unlistenable" quote as an extreme example, and yes, I believe some folks indeed do just that.
You don't agree with it.....fine.
Why do YOU think that folks do this(Yeah, you told us that YOU don't...I get that).
Or do you not think this happens at all and that Doc's question is bogus?
i think it can and does happen and sometimes, sure, a desire to one up other folks can be at the heart of it. most likely, i think it just has to do with an inability to believe that others could possibly legitimately enjoy or feel strongly about something they don't enjoy themselves. just regular old "my opinion is the only correct one" type stuff.
this is basically why i took issue with your "unlistenable" slant on things. since questioning other folks' motivations for listening to what they listen to based on your own dislike for the music falls directly into this "assert(ing) that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong" thing that doc was talking about.
Here's the way I've always understood it; when people listen to music, it's a personal, individual experience, right? Everyone reacts to music in different ways - can we agree on that much? OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them? Why do some people get so upset at the thought that other people's relationship to music may differ from theirs, to the extent that they'll assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?
Feel free to discuss, or alternately, K.I.M.
Because many people use music as a measuring stick for how hip/cool/down they are.
Over the years I've seen this in the realm of Industrial/Experimental/Free Jazz.
"I'm so hip I listen to the unlistenable"
TOP THAT MOFO!!!!
you do realize that your feelings towards people into the styles of music you listed above are pretty much what docmccoy is talking about, right?
I think you misunderstood my post.
Doc asked us to discuss why some people belittle or scoff at what others listen to.
I'm suggesting it's a game of oneupmanship.
At the bottom we have folks who listen to commercial pop music.....then we have folks who scoff at them because THEY listen to "deeper" less commercial music.....and the next guy listens to undergound music and scoffs at dude #2...
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
so where does you calling what other people genuinely enjoy "unlistenable" and, more importantly, suggesting they only listen to it to be one up on other folks fit into this belittiling/ scoffing scenario?
what about those of us who enjoy some of that stuff and some commercial pop music and don't give a fuck about some imagined hierarchy?
"unlistenable" is in the ear of each listener. an endless stream of private press ineptitude, fuzzed out rock, southern rock, and plenty of other stuff does nothing for me at all. i wouldn't question others for enjoying it though.
Tell you what.....I gave my theory as to why people "assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?"[/b] which is what Doc was asking for.
In my life experience I have seen some record collectors and music fanatics play the "one up" game......ESPECIALLY in the hard rock/psych genre.
I used the "unlistenable" quote as an extreme example, and yes, I believe some folks indeed do just that.
You don't agree with it.....fine.
Why do YOU think that folks do this(Yeah, you told us that YOU don't...I get that).
Or do you not think this happens at all and that Doc's question is bogus?
i think it can and does happen and sometimes, sure, a desire to one up other folks can be at the heart of it. most likely, i think it just has to do with an inability to believe that others could possibly legitimately enjoy or feel strongly about something they don't enjoy themselves. just regular old "my opinion is the only correct one" type stuff.
this is basically why i took issue with your "unlistenable" slant on things. since questioning other folks' motivations for listening to what they listen to based on your own dislike for the music falls directly into this "assert(ing) that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong" thing that doc was talking about.
Being guilty myself of putting out records that MANY people find unlistenable, I have some insight.
When you're talking about the public as a whole, music genres like Free Jazz and Industrial are about as "unlistenable" as it gets.
Here's the way I've always understood it; when people listen to music, it's a personal, individual experience, right? Everyone reacts to music in different ways - can we agree on that much? OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them? Why do some people get so upset at the thought that other people's relationship to music may differ from theirs, to the extent that they'll assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?
Feel free to discuss, or alternately, K.I.M.
Because many people use music as a measuring stick for how hip/cool/down they are.
Over the years I've seen this in the realm of Industrial/Experimental/Free Jazz.
"I'm so hip I listen to the unlistenable"
TOP THAT MOFO!!!!
you do realize that your feelings towards people into the styles of music you listed above are pretty much what docmccoy is talking about, right?
I think you misunderstood my post.
Doc asked us to discuss why some people belittle or scoff at what others listen to.
I'm suggesting it's a game of oneupmanship.
At the bottom we have folks who listen to commercial pop music.....then we have folks who scoff at them because THEY listen to "deeper" less commercial music.....and the next guy listens to undergound music and scoffs at dude #2...
This continues to the point when people "listen to the unlistenable" to show just how "deep" or musically hip they are....and it's tough to top the unlistenable.
so where does you calling what other people genuinely enjoy "unlistenable" and, more importantly, suggesting they only listen to it to be one up on other folks fit into this belittiling/ scoffing scenario?
what about those of us who enjoy some of that stuff and some commercial pop music and don't give a fuck about some imagined hierarchy?
"unlistenable" is in the ear of each listener. an endless stream of private press ineptitude, fuzzed out rock, southern rock, and plenty of other stuff does nothing for me at all. i wouldn't question others for enjoying it though.
Tell you what.....I gave my theory as to why people "assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?"[/b] which is what Doc was asking for.
In my life experience I have seen some record collectors and music fanatics play the "one up" game......ESPECIALLY in the hard rock/psych genre.
I used the "unlistenable" quote as an extreme example, and yes, I believe some folks indeed do just that.
You don't agree with it.....fine.
Why do YOU think that folks do this(Yeah, you told us that YOU don't...I get that).
Or do you not think this happens at all and that Doc's question is bogus?
i think it can and does happen and sometimes, sure, a desire to one up other folks can be at the heart of it. most likely, i think it just has to do with an inability to believe that others could possibly legitimately enjoy or feel strongly about something they don't enjoy themselves. just regular old "my opinion is the only correct one" type stuff.
this is basically why i took issue with your "unlistenable" slant on things. since questioning other folks' motivations for listening to what they listen to based on your own dislike for the music falls directly into this "assert(ing) that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong" thing that doc was talking about.
Being guilty myself of putting out records that MANY people find unlistenable, I have some insight.
When you're talking about the public as a whole, music genres like Free Jazz and Industrial are about as "unlistenable" as it gets.
ha. fair enough, man.
and i really do think doc's question is a legit one. wish there were some more responses to it.
Just listened to Gucci Mane's avante garde masterpiece "Lemonade" on youtube. If ever an example was needed that rap hasn't dumbed down, that it doesn't follow a cookie-cutter fomulae based around crass materialism & pouting bimbos, that thought provoking lyrisism isn't dead, and that hip-hop hasn't been reduced to a bland, regressive pop variant, then this sure as fuck isn't it. The guy's delivery, the music, it's all about as interesting as somebody else's tax return. If there were ever bubbles in his lemonade, Gucci's charisma-bypass has left it flat. Not even interesting enough to feel sour about, this lemonade doesn't suck, it blows.
I know I shouldn't bother but I still have no idea what the above is about Duder. I think it's been pretty much standard throughout the history of hip hop that you can have both introspective thought provoking "deep" songs and tracks which just celebrate having a good time. Or is this really about the lack of xylophone solos on the record? I also have no idea what the Blondie/Stefani shit is about.
Here's the way I've always understood it; when people listen to music, it's a personal, individual experience, right? Everyone reacts to music in different ways - can we agree on that much? OK, well, why is it so important to some people that everyone else should have the same experience as them? Why do some people get so upset at the thought that other people's relationship to music may differ from theirs, to the extent that they'll assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?
Feel free to discuss, or alternately, K.I.M.
Because many people use music as a measuring stick for how hip/cool/down they are.
Over the years I've seen this in the realm of Industrial/Experimental/Free Jazz.
"I'm so hip I listen to the unlistenable"
TOP THAT MOFO!!!!
Taking this one step further I also think that to a certain extent people still define not only how cool they are by their music but their personality itself. While this may dim from the kind of obsessive fronting of teenage years I think there are lots of people, especially on a board like Soulstrut, who factor music above any other kind of cultural influence in defining who they are. Therefore when posters take broad swipes at it, people feel the need to defend something that they have dedicated time and emotion into.
Or is that all too touchy feely?
Anyway, Rap Threads On Soulstrut.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
To me, it's just the same old haterism. You say Z-Ro is a genius...and then people come back with Gucci Mane is stupid. Umm, never said Gucci Mane was a genius. But way to go out and find a way to be negative outside the actual topic of conversation...great for you.
Comments
I dont listen to music at all!!!! Top That Shit. All that recycled shit u think is so deep is for the birds.
I listen to nature!!!!!!
I'm telling all the "Ethnic" collectors on waxidermy how you really feel!
so where does you calling what other people genuinely enjoy "unlistenable" and, more importantly, suggesting they only listen to it to be one up on other folks fit into this belittiling/ scoffing scenario?
what about those of us who enjoy some of that stuff and some commercial pop music and don't give a fuck about some imagined hierarchy?
"unlistenable" is in the ear of each listener. an endless stream of private press ineptitude, fuzzed out rock, southern rock, and plenty of other stuff does nothing for me at all. i wouldn't question others for enjoying it though.
I beat you to it years ago.
Tell you what.....I gave my theory as to why people "assert that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong?"[/b] which is what Doc was asking for.
In my life experience I have seen some record collectors and music fanatics play the "one up" game......ESPECIALLY in the hard rock/psych genre.
I used the "unlistenable" quote as an extreme example, and yes, I believe some folks indeed do just that.
You don't agree with it.....fine.
Why do YOU think that folks do this(Yeah, you told us that YOU don't...I get that).
Or do you not think this happens at all and that Doc's question is bogus?
i think it can and does happen and sometimes, sure, a desire to one up other folks can be at the heart of it. most likely, i think it just has to do with an inability to believe that others could possibly legitimately enjoy or feel strongly about something they don't enjoy themselves. just regular old "my opinion is the only correct one" type stuff.
this is basically why i took issue with your "unlistenable" slant on things. since questioning other folks' motivations for listening to what they listen to based on your own dislike for the music falls directly into this "assert(ing) that these relationships are invalid, or even flat-out wrong" thing that doc was talking about.
Being guilty myself of putting out records that MANY people find unlistenable, I have some insight.
When you're talking about the public as a whole, music genres like Free Jazz and Industrial are about as "unlistenable" as it gets.
ha. fair enough, man.
and i really do think doc's question is a legit one.
wish there were some more responses to it.
I know I shouldn't bother but I still have no idea what the above is about Duder. I think it's been pretty much standard throughout the history of hip hop that you can have both introspective thought provoking "deep" songs and tracks which just celebrate having a good time. Or is this really about the lack of xylophone solos on the record? I also have no idea what the Blondie/Stefani shit is about.
Taking this one step further I also think that to a certain extent people still define not only how cool they are by their music but their personality itself. While this may dim from the kind of obsessive fronting of teenage years I think there are lots of people, especially on a board like Soulstrut, who factor music above any other kind of cultural influence in defining who they are.
Therefore when posters take broad swipes at it, people feel the need to defend something that they have dedicated time and emotion into.
Or is that all too touchy feely?
Anyway, Rap Threads On Soulstrut.