Records are too fuckin long these days
The_Hook_Up
8,182 Posts
...records should only be 40 minutes, tops...leave your audience wanting more, let them be able to listen to your whole album in one sitting. 60-70 minute albums are pointless, if you cant say what you want to say in 40 minutes, you dont have much to say. Put out one 40 minute album a year, dont wait three to four years between albums, then dump over an hours worth of shit on your fans. Have your fans wanting to start the the thing over right after they hear it, not stop it half way through and come back to it. let them know, there will be another 40 minutes of kick ass record to listen to in 10-12 months. Why isnt it done like this anymore?
Comments
Cosign. The whole album concept has been challenged by the download generation. Albums arent listen to as a whole but as an assemblage of tracks that are extractable.
but i agree with everything said in the initial post.
if you ask me the format of choice these days is the 12" single / ep.
it's cheaper than pressing a full lengnth on wax (which you usually have to break accross 2 lps for time) and it clocks in at a good 24 minutes.
pressing on wax ONLY makes it tougher to find online as a download which makes people more likely to pick it up in a store when they see it.
you have a smaller / limited number.. again making people less hesitatant to just grab it when they see it as they know it won't be around for long.
and then when you've put out enough ep's you collect them onto a cd.
the material is already mixed and mastered so you only pay the raw pressing cost of the cd.
It's funny that you brought this point up, because this thought hit me as my boy played me Little Brother's new album last night. The thought occurred to me that they make good songs, but not good albums. Maybe this is personal preference, but there wasn't enough variety (sound-wise) to keep my interest (i.e., switch up the mood musically a little more). I had this same issue with "The Listening" too. I wonder if this is a function of MC's with single producers gravitating toward songs with a similar sound. I fight this issue with my MC all the time when I say, "Stop pickin' all the smooth joints, write to some of the grimy, intense ones before we make some monotonous shit". I'm willing to bet money that although 9th Wonder makes some different sounding tracks (which we hear produced for other groups, by the way), Phonte and Big Pooh probably only write to the joints with the signature Little Brother sound. This is not a slam on Little Brother or anything ('cause I'm a big fan), just an opinion.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I noticed a trend in the mid-to-late 90s in which artists - rappers in particular - were dropping 70-80 minute albums. And, as was noted earlier, these albums weren't always well structured/sequenced. Personally, I find overly lengthy albums really hard to get through, so I will often skip around the album, programming my favourite tracks. I am not sure if it is a truism that most artists simply do not have enough quality material to sustain a 70-minute album, but I do suspect that listening habits have changed and listeners just aren't prepared to listen to a 80-minute album from front to back.
One also needs to consider the emergence of the smorgasbord approach to compiling albums. I stand corrected, but I reckon it was first popularised by Notorious BIG on 'Life After Death', which featured songs acknowledging, or borrowing from, the West and Mid-West. Jay-Z then ran with this idea (you can find the evidence on his most commercially successful record, Hard Knock Life). I think the result was that albums because less of an opportunity for the artist to communicate his/her ideas centered around a particular theme, and more about creating a showcaqse of songs that would appeal to as many audiences as possible. As a result, it became customary to have a track for the streets, one for the clubs (featuring Swizz Beats for instance), one for radio (with R&B crooner on the hook), etc.
This past year, however, there has been a re-emergence of shorter, more focused albums, e.g. Edan's record 'Beauty And The Beat' (12/13 tracks @ less than 40 mins), Madvillainy (just over 40 minutes) and De La Soul's Grind Date. Whether this will take off, however, is debatable. It probably doesn't make economic sense on paper, so it's likely to remain a feature of artists who prioritise art over profit.
What do you think?
I would put that down to poor artistic direction. These days too many producers are beat-makers only, and MCs are poor beat-tasters. There's a need for serious A&R'ing on a lot of the albums that I have trashed in reviews. See, I don't see a problem with using one producer, as long as that producer is functioning as more than just a beat-maker, that person should also shape a vision for the album, and I suspect that isn't really happening - or folks aren't being rigorous enough about this.
G
So, I'm not being a total asshole by pushing my MC to stop writing to songs with primarily the same vibe, to stretch some? I think artists should give the audience different "looks" throughout the album, but still have a coherent "sound" all the while.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
The mentality that they have to fill up as much space as possible for the CD. 60 minutes became the norm in the 80's, but once hip-hop hit the CD, it made everyone want to fill the gap. But it ended up being more crap. Master P did an album recently where it was released as a 2CD set, although all of it together could fit onto one. He could've easily released them nine months apart.
As someone put it, for a lot of the younger generation the CD isn't even a format to them, hell, they don't even know what format is. If the song can be downloaded, they will assemble and make their own mixes, whether it's for the iPod or to burn a CD. A CD-R is a storage medium for a lot of people.
Cosign.
Little brother's album does tend to drone whereas a Kutmaster Kurt joint will have a bit more versatility to his production.
The reason for 60-70 minutes album is the cd.
Nothing beats putting on an 40 minutes LP. Chooosing with which side to start with, turning the platter after 20 sweet minutes and still being hungry for another Lp afterwards. Classic.
This is how it used to be but it also makes more sense than ever today. There has neveer been a time when more recorded music (old and new) has been available. So many records and so little time.
How many cats sit down w/ an album and just focus on it? Not while your cleaning the house, or cooking dinner, or organizing your collection. That beautiful moment of just sitting w/ the art.
I was such a cat, did nothinf elase for hours and hours .... but tht was when I was still in school ...
Long albums are one of the reasons why I personally download more than I buy now as people make too much filler and I just want the hot stuff.
Then though you hit a few dilemmas as you can rinse a track too hard and ruin it.
I wish people did make short albums because I do really like just sitting down and hearing a album from start to finish the way it was intended to be listened to.
But it???s been a while since most artists thought about an album as a whole product.
THANK YOU!
I have complained about this for some time.
About a year ago I was telling a beatmaker/producer this exactly same thing. This guy didn't hear a word I said. He came back with "I have 3 hours of dope beats, the hard thing will be trimming it down to 70 min." This guy was working with one questionable mc and I had just told him that I didn't think there were many mc's out there today who had an hours worth of something to say.
If Marvin Gaye could say all that need to be said on 40 mins of What's Going On I don't see where Capone is so much more insightful.
I'm guessing that most of the classic hip hop lps are actually EPs.
Dan
Abbey Road, one side is Paul's concept record, the other is John's rock record. I can't even imagine thinking of listening to it on a cd where it would all just run together.
Dan
There we go. "Just sitting with the art", it's a ritual that David Bowie said was silly in this modern age, and yet that can apply to anything that has been updated, or made obsolete. I prefer to sit and listen to a good album, that's how it used to be, that was how people listened to the record, when "listening to a record" was an event. In a way, that's why some of us love fucking up the record, but there is still love (or at least admiration) for the music.
Listening to music "on the go" was once an alternate way, yet for a lot of people it's the only way they know. There are a lot of times when the only time I can listen to an album in full is in the car.
I am someone who is a holder of that art and the artform. I am glad to be of a dying breed.
I still feel Beastie Boys' Ill Communication would make a better EP, and I have said that Wu-Tang Forever would've been better as one CD, and easily chopped down to something under 50 minutes. "Black Shampoo", what the fuck was that?
For me, I'm into a record/CD for the long haul when I listen. I don't want to be interrupted the first time I hear something. If it's a Yes album with four, side-long tracks, I'm there. If it's The Residents doing 40 one-minute songs, I'm prepared.
Shit, there are a lot of hip-hop albums coming out today that would benefit from either coming out as an EP, or just release them as singles. Forget an album. The new Fat Joe could be trimmed to an EP, I don't want to hear a Lil' Jon remix, a song with Jennifer Lopez, or fricken R. Kelly. Boyz N Da Hood, I mean c'mon, P. Diddy is sampling Russell Simmons career. Bad Boy South? I know he won't stop, heh eh. The new Birdman? It's a 17 song CD, could be a good 6 song EP. Cassidy's I'm A Hustla was a surprise, I'm liking that one.
Another good example is Illmatic. I know that its greatness has been talked to death here and elsewhere. The strength of the album is that it has 10 tracks, no bullshit, and it leaves you wanting more, just as you all have said. Wu Tang Forever is a perfect example of the opposite end, a potentially great album that just sort of negates itself by being unfeasible to listen to in one sitting. There are plenty of great songs on there, but 120 minutes is still way too fucking much, even with 9 or 10 different rappers.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
me too...my ex-fiance used to ask me if I liked my friends..I asked her why, what are you talking about? She said, "well, when they come over all you do is sit in the living room and listen to records, you guys dont say anything to each other"..I told her, "we are listening to music, you cant listen to music if you are talking"... she didnt get it.
I really hate talking when listening to live jazz too. I'm amazed at how few people truly appreciate music. I guess that's how it is since I live where culture is sorely lacking. At least at the Blue Note, there are norms against speaking during the performance. That is surely not the case here in Beertown.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Thank you. I have only been to a small handful of jazz shows. The first one was when the Michael Brecker Quartet played at the Richland High School Auditorium a few years ago. Mindblowing.
But I've seen Medeski Martin & Wood on three separate occasions, all in Seattle, and there was one show in particular (I think it was on The Dropper tour) where there was heavy talking through the quiet moments. I think it was at the Paramount, and I'm wanting to hear all the little ins and outs of what they were doing on stage, not someone talking about "did you see Rachel last night?" Maybe because it was at a non-jazz venue, I don't know. I guess when the culture makes music as mere wallpaper, or something that isn't used without a product to sell it with. Yet some of those people will remain silent to watch the emphasis of silence between friends during films that are complete ass.
Yep!!!!! People are quieter during a soap opera than when watching a jazz great(s) perform. I remember there was crazy chatter behind me when I went to see Herbie Hancock/Wayne Shorter 1 + 1 while up in Akron (in grad school). Those folks were pissed cause Herbie didn't play "Rockit"
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I find that somewhat insulting as a DJ, but then again the people I am referring to favour what they are being fed by daytime chart radio, so their brain isn't so much intentionally looking for something to listen to as merely acting as a dumb terminal for whatever is playing at the time.
There is nothing better than devoting solid undevided attention to a good reckid worth listening to.