Digitizing vinyl question
mannybolone
Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
Lately, I've really been feeling like the vinyl I digitize is coming out sounding hella "flat" - as if something during the process takes these distinct layers of sound and then compresses them into a single plane, if that makes any sense. Here's an example of what I mean:Now maybe that's just how the single is supposed to sound but it doesn't feel right to me. My current set-up =Shure White LabelsTechnics 1200which then runs into...Microwave Box 1.0which then runs directly into my laptop where I record it using Sound Studio 3. I've tried recording directly from Microwave into my computer vs. running an audio line from my mixer (post-Microwave box) and those sound identical to my ears. I haven't tried just digitizing from turntable to mixer to computer and bypassing (by unplugging it) the Microwave box though I suppose that'd be the next, obvious thing to try. Any advice? Does that sound clip sound as dynamic as it should? And if not, what are the likely culprits for where the digitizing process is affecting the fidelity of the vinyl source?
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And I'm assuming running it directly from the Rane mixer into my laptop sound card wouldn't cut it either?
Nah man, I mean I own a MOTU 828 for recording purposes, and it sounds great when I'm converting vinyl, but that's a multitrack. You really need at least a decent quality stereo converter. It shouldn't break your bank either... if you're ripping files for DJing it's a necessity.
For stuff you can't find, the Microwave is going to sound like shit compared to a good dedicated interface. Recommendations on that will vary depending on cashflow.
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet.php
The way I figure, with the amount of time that you invest in digitizing vinyl, you might as well invest some money into it to produce higher quality recording. I would hate to spend hundreds of hours digitizing shit, get some upgrades here and there, and then realize that all the shit you recorded previously sounded terrible to what you are capable of.
What I wouldn't do is go out and spend $200 for some M-Audio BS that has good converters and terrible internal circuitry, hoping that it will help. Because you won't notice the difference that much. The Apogee will be like night and day.
Also IMO whitelabels aren't the best for digitizing/sampling in my opinion - sometimes what "sounds best" in analog isn't always going to translate the way you want it to digitally. Personally I think Ortofon Nightclubs (Thes aren't you using this too for sampling?) handle dynamics really well and I've been happy using them to digitize vinyl to play out, especially 12-inches. I own whitelabels too though and will use them for some 45s, especially poorly pressed ones.
Haha, I figured someone else would be throwing that one out too.
Also, RE: new Microwave box, have you seen any A/Bing anywhere? Surprised I haven't heard anything yet actually.
Well, that doesn't really solve my problem though if the box is the source of it!
That said, can anyone confirm that this is the likely source of the problem? Does the sound file above sound "off" or less than ideal? Or maybe I'm just being audio-paranoid.
$500 is kind of high for my budget (and that D70 money is for my D90, dude!) but then again, as folks point out, I don't want to spend $200 for something half-assed.
Good box for the price though the duet really can't be beat.
Bypass the Microwave box and go straight into the phono pres with a lower gain setting, lower output, good AD into the computer at proper levels.
Ortofon nightclub m or equivalent on the tonearm... should be good to go. Oh did i mention the phono pre is going to make the biggest noticable difference here? Big difference between rane mixer and 05 pro, for sure - we're talking both enormous gain and a riaa curve which will really effect the signal the AD gets. I like the crunchy surface mount circuitry of a 90's era Gemini but thas just me.
Thanks Thes - so besides the Duet, any other A/D converters you'd recommend in the same (or less) price range?
BTW, sorry for not being to move stuff on the Funk Fest forward this semester, shit has been crazy busy on my end. That said, it can still be picked up easily for the future.
Yeah, you still need a preamp with the Duet. But the Rane 56 should be fine if you like how it sounds.
You should see how much an iPhone costs here...$600 and that's with a contract! Viva a industria brasileira! rsrsrs...
This is the only other thing i can personally vouch for....small company out of Santa Barbara that makes quality stuff. Stable drivers too.
http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire2/index.php
Bought this from a recommendation off Soul Strut. Sounds great and it's cheap. Don't know if that makes a difference though if Microwave is what's making your files sound flat.
So good in fact I've had people trying to return ebay winnings because their needles don't sound as good (digitally, I guess)... roffle. Not really. actually.
http://www.amazon.com/ART-USB-Phono-Plus-Preamp/dp/B000BBGCCI
Will not help you.
I do my transfers with a 002R, but I've been looking to step up my converters for a minute. The duet sounds real nice, too bad im on a pc. Anything portable and small, similar to the duet that people recommend? Spelunk, that Echo Audio thing sounds that good?
I've read some good reviews for this.
Sure, if you don't already have a pre-amp. But you still have to run it through some kind of external or internal soundcard.
I know I already said this on FB but I will repeat. Mbox Mini, it's $239 so that's just above your price range but worth it IMHO.
If you are on mac, the chipset in the duet is good enough and honestly i don't think you'll get anything cheaper with he same specs. The rolls is an OK preamp but the Radial Engineering Phono pre box is much better for a similar pricepoint. All things equal though the Rane phono pres are VERY good, as long as you don't F*ck up the signal flow. Nightlub elipticals into the rane mixer at medium gain. leaving plenty of headroom - out of the mixer with no additional gain, into duet at only 75% of the total allowable level(because many of the transients will eb hitting faster than the meters can show, so you don't want to distort on the way in) record, normalize, rinse and repeat.
you will be happy.
or, get a gemini mixer from the 90's. I am not shitting you guys.
Oliver, did you send me any emails about the project? When we were in china my mac email server crashed and burned (great firewall related me thinks) and i am still picking up the pieces. Either way it's all good, didn't want you to think i flaked out on the project. My hands are really full trying to navigate this disintegrating music industry. Let's get some food soon.
spelunk - the Manley custom phon pre is kind of an anomaly, it sounds great for listening but the combination fo 12ax7s and trannies makes for a kind of soggy sampling experience. too much saturation and slewing. Again,back to the stock Gemini for me.