how to fight bass feedback/rumble

2

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  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    buy s.erato and play wavs. problem solved.

    BAN

    hook, line and sinker... take the bait. good ol predictable soulstrut.

    thats right, your computer is only for chat boards and emails...and popsike. it shall not be used to make/edit/ or play music... ever. your a fraud if you do.

    for all the so called purists... please use snail mail, stop using mobile phones, dvds, and any other technological device thats not in step with the logic of strictly vinyl or die.... and while were at it, franks issue of feedback still wont be resolved...suffer you must..along with everybody else that gets pounded away with annoying feedback while at franks night.
    in comparison, the solutions offered are a bit absurd, costly and certainly not definitive, all guess work ... does frank own the club ?

    waaaay too much bs to go thru for a gig.

    all that trouble shooting just to play vinyl, seems..... like its not about the music anymore.

    the music is the key.

    steppin' into tomorrow.
    b/w
    dead horse 101.

    and the bonus cut... i still buy vinyl.

    Great sense of humor you got there.

    And what Frank said.

  • and "skills" won't matter anymore because there will be software that'll do all the mixing, wiggling, juggling and wickiddy-wackeddy anyone could ever ask for.

    Dude, that made me spit out my coffee.
    My wiggling skills are not to be tested!

  • FrankFrank 2,379 Posts
    and "skills" won't matter anymore because there will be software that'll do all the mixing, wiggling, juggling and wickiddy-wackeddy anyone could ever ask for.

    Dude, that made me spit out my coffee.
    My wiggling skills are not to be tested!

    I wouldn't dare to...

    seriously though, I don't have any problem with people using Microwave. I personally find it unappealig but can see its advantages. The point I was trying to make is that with time, this might have some very negative long-term side effects... it won't interfere much with what I'm doing but I see some trouble ahead for the DJ trade in general...

  • Options
    Hey Frank, nice thread and thanks for the opinions on microwave DJ.

    I wish I was a better writer but look,

    They are too different things. Microwave DJ's are in a booth, turntable DJs are on the dance floor. you dig? Dancers, conscious or not, appreciate it when a record DJ flaunts his flow. ya know balance the records (volume and sound) and blend them in the right time. that is the difference and that is where the $$ comes in. why would a dancer pay bar prices for a mix they can play/control at home off the internet?

    the dancer will protect the DJ...the DJ will guard to the beat so the dancer can dance,..they always do.

    illstu

  • DelayDelay 4,530 Posts
    is anyone else completely sick of having this discussion?

    I'm actually kind of with Kon on this. From what I know, I think he has a record collection that would rival any of you guys. I listen to records... I DJ with files. I don't mess up my nice expensive wax, and 90% of what I'm playing out nowadays doesnt even exist on records.

    Franks night is one of my favorites in NYC right now, so... who cares?

  • Frank - buy a feedback eliminator. Something that can isolate and put a high-q reduction on the offending frequency. Everything else is wasting time and money, period. You've already physically decoupled everything from everything and it didn't solve the problem, which is certain frequencies (probably below 100hz) are being picked up by the stylus and reamped through the gain stage, looping ad inf. In the meantime, you could roll off everything below 60hz, I am absolutely positive the african records were not cut with any energy in that range and you will nto lose anything noticable - plus you'll be able to rock louder, now that those frequencies aren't eating up your headroom. Hell, that's why the viking rolled those frequencies out of Michael Jackson's Off The Wall and Thriller, so the records could play louder.

  • this will do the job fine.. under 200$ easy

  • this one is a little more but easier to set up probably


  • a more expensive but better sounding option probably:


  • FrankFrank 2,379 Posts
    thanx for the compliment, Tom.

    and totally, let's please not do another mixing-nonmixing debate...

    All I wanted to say was that the presence of Microwave in clubs has in some cases made it harder for djs who play from vinyl. I just had the same problem at an out of town gig last Friday when the Dj who played first had set up the equipment and the subwoofers were directly behind the dj table. Hadn't he been using Microwave, he would have never set it up this way and I wouldn't have had any problems.

    The other problem I see is the possible long-term impact Microwave might have on the dj business. Maybe too many people with too many mp3s on their laptops are going to think "hey, I can be a dj, too."
    Allow me to illustrate this by copying a short email exchange I had just yesterday with someone who got in touch with me through the archive of my old radio show on WFMU.






    "WOW! Just found this site/show from a friend's recommendation. UNREAL. Whole new world of beats. I can stream OK, but I don't suppose you offer a download of any of these shows? If not, no worries, I'll try to catch some upcoming Voodoo shows. Keep up the excellent work!


    Will"





    "hey Will,

    sorry, I don't even have those shows as mp3s.

    Do you know my blog? www.voodoofunk.com ?
    There are 28 one-hour long mp3 mixes for free download up there.


    Frank"






    "yeah I just found the blog today and I'm soaking it all up! I'm DJing an open house in LES tomorrow night and some of these beats will be jumping up front in the setlist...

    maybe you can join us for the next NYC open house - (or tomorrow if you're free but it's pretty last minute)

    Will"






    "that depends pretty much on what it's paying, I'm generally free tomorrow night."




    And then there was silence...



    I know, it's my own fault, putting all this music onto the web but it really hadn't occured to me that people might use this shit to dj with... at least not right here in NCY where they could just as well pay me to come over and play those records for them.

    ... anyway. I think I'm going to get me one of these:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/37...#specifications
    and I'll report back with what happened and if I did manage to kill the rumble...

  • casbahcasbah 57 Posts
    In the meantime, you could roll off everything below 60hz, I am absolutely positive the african records were not cut with any energy in that range and you will nto lose anything noticable - plus you'll be able to rock louder, now that those frequencies aren't eating up your headroom.[/b]


  • FrankFrank 2,379 Posts
    Frank - buy a feedback eliminator. Something that can isolate and put a high-q reduction on the offending frequency. Everything else is wasting time and money, period. You've already physically decoupled everything from everything and it didn't solve the problem, which is certain frequencies (probably below 100hz) are being picked up by the stylus and reamped through the gain stage, looping ad inf. In the meantime, you could roll off everything below 60hz, I am absolutely positive the african records were not cut with any energy in that range and you will nto lose anything noticable - plus you'll be able to rock louder, now that those frequencies aren't eating up your headroom. Hell, that's why the viking rolled those frequencies out of Michael Jackson's Off The Wall and Thriller, so the records could play louder.

    Oh, wow, thanx a lot for the input and suggestions.
    I'm probably going to try and find one with as few buttons as possible... the first one looks a bit too complicated for a tech-simpleton like myself.

    What's your opinion on this cheapo for $140 right here:



    How would I go eliminating everything below 60hz? Buy an equalizer? Any suggestions which type?


    Thanx!

  • the bheringer should work fine for the job, if only adding a little crispiness to the highs because of it's low dc rails and ic / low end ad-da path. BUT, it will work and it won't be noticable for the material your playing, so yes, I bless this.

    I didn't know if the house system had a graphic EQ somewhere in-line, or if your dj mixer has a graphic eq, but if it does, then i would cut the lowest frequency. If it ddoesn't and you r a smart dude, so you would have tried that already if it did have a 60hz band on the eq then try this:

    instead of additive eq'ing when you are playing (pumping up the bass eq on your dj mixer to make certain records blend in with the set) try Subtractive eqing, so instead of turning up the bass, turn down the treble a bit and turn up the gain - which is in essence the same thing as turning up the bass but you aren't creating a bump in the low end that will cycle out on itself - nawmean?

    holleur

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,475 Posts
    Maybe too many people with too many mp3s on their laptops are going to think "hey, I can be a dj, too."

    There's no "maybe" about it; it's simple reality.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    Maybe too many people with too many mp3s on their laptops are going to think "hey, I can be a dj, too."

    There's no "maybe" about it; it's simple reality.

    Basically, this will do to DJs what DJs did to live bands. Soon, any Lindsay Lohan wannabe with an ipod will make DJs obsolete, and by using laptops etc you guys are just speeding up the process. Any bar or club owner can download files themselves, or the bartender can do it. Maybe soon bartenders won't be able to get jobs if they don't have a fat ipod to offer as well.

    I'm not a DJ, never have been, so I don't have a dog in the race. But spinning the actual vinyl will soon be the only reason for a bar or club to even have DJs at all.

    For me, records are magic, and the kinds of records Frank spins, for example, are treasures. Being in a club where they being spun is a treat.

    Soundfiles are units and I have little interest, especially as entertainment I would actually pay for. I know, most people aren't that way, but soon people who feel like I do will be the only way DJs will get paid.

  • Oh, wow, thanx a lot for the input and suggestions.
    I'm probably going to try and find one with as few buttons as possible... the first one looks a bit too complicated for a tech-simpleton like myself.

    What's your opinion on this cheapo for $140 right here:

    Just my 2 cents, but I would suggest spending some more money
    on a higher end model, or at least make sure you can return it after trying it.
    Again, I suggest the Sabine shown by LRadio
    I konow something of your critical ear and perfectionist tendencies,
    and I bet that behringer will color your sound enough to bother you.
    The cheaper models impart a bit of harmonicaly hollow ring that can
    be noticable at high volumes.

    Hell, sell a couple select funk 45's and you could go get a nice
    eliminator, a nice graphic eq, and a 2 slot roadcase for well under a G,
    and you will have a nice soulution for any sonic problems you may encounter.

    Also, these things set themselves up pretty easily, requiring you to listen
    to the room and watch some lights for a minute or two, and then they
    needn't be messed with again untill you use them in another space.
    Don't be put off by lots of buttons. There's not much to it.

    GoodLuck, and let us know what happens.

  • Maybe too many people with too many mp3s on their laptops are going to think "hey, I can be a dj, too."

    There's no "maybe" about it; it's simple reality.

    Basically, this will do to DJs what DJs did to live bands. Soon, any Lindsay Lohan wannabe with an ipod will make DJs obsolete, and by using laptops etc you guys are just speeding up the process. Any bar or club owner can download files themselves, or the bartender can do it. Maybe soon bartenders won't be able to get jobs if they don't have a fat ipod to offer as well.

    I'm not a DJ, never have been, so I don't have a dog in the race. But spinning the actual vinyl will soon be the only reason for a bar or club to even have DJs at all.

    For me, records are magic, and the kinds of records Frank spins, for example, are treasures. Being in a club where they being spun is a treat.

    Soundfiles are units and I have little interest, especially as entertainment I would actually pay for. I know, most people aren't that way, but soon people who feel like I do will be the only way DJs will get paid.
    of course its a matter of personal choice.
    frank from what you described, it didnt sound like a slight rumble. if thats all it is, not a big deal.

    again, every option that has been presented.. peep the key words, "go buy this, this should work". its your personal choice to shell out $$ to see if, "it should work". I just think its rather silly, unless you become frank mancuso.

    how's my sense of humor going...

    "The other problem I see is the possible long-term impact Microwave might have on the dj business. Maybe too many people with too many mp3s on their laptops are going to think "hey, I can be a dj, too."

    totally disagree. ive been spinning for quite some time, and prior to s.erato, all i would see is, cdj dj's doing what your talking about.
    the digital age has been among us ...long before s.erato. lets stop bullshitting.
    s.erato allows for me to still utilize the turntable as my medium to play from.

    i've had a similar discussion with other people ( a very well known figure) before regarding this, cool asthetic of showing up with your records.
    i've got nothing to prove.
    i dont need to show you my records. if you own them, great...now you know what it feels like. its like, oooooo looky looky, hey dj/ collectors in the house, im the maaan.

    outside of that circle, the non dj/collector people wouldnt know the difference between your og uber rare african, only 2 exist in the world... or my disco acetate vs. a bootleg.
    personally i dont use my nights as some show and tell. thats some how big is your dick type shit.
    i would hope people are on the floor, listening to the music, not jocking what record i bring, staring at the labels trying to find out what it is. if thats what people are paying to see...then what is it all about.
    "oh my god, did you see that he had such and such record" your forgetting about the music.
    i hate that shit.

    gilles asked why i was playing s.erato.... dude, your rocking off cdjs..dont make me laugh.

    this isnt directed at you personally frank, more so for anybody who feels this way.
    i just am tired of this.."oh no i wont use my computer to play music, but i will use it for all else. its stone-age.

    it just seems insane to me that youd rather go out and buy/try to see if all of these other electronic gadgets MAY or MAY not work, rather than the one gadget with no buttons, that WILL work.

    amir and i were booked for a show...he had nothing but 45s. i had some vinyl and s.erato. the sound system was brought in, as it was not a club.
    i played, bboys are dancing... party people the same.
    amir gets on, nothing but enormous feedback, to the point where you did not want to hear the music, as it was not enjoyable. hes looking at me like wtf!? the entire party is now like wtf, this sounds like shit. the vibe died a bit...what do you think had to happen...

    yes, the feedback troll came out of the speakers with his bass de- feedback rumbler destroyer/decoupler/ and handed it to the sound engineer..with one plug and one button, plugged it in and saved the day.

    fellas, all i am trying to say is.. if one is to use a computer to do all else except music, i question that.
    since s.erato is the one suggestion that truly will stop the problem that frank/others are having when a system is not up to par.


    i will continue to say... the music is the MAGIC (not the slab of vinyl) and its more important than the medium in which its played from.
    at almost 40 years old, im not checking to see if you own some 1st pressing of whatever your playing. if its sounds proper, and it bumps..and your taste/ programming is off the hook. im good.




    this post was a suggestion of a sure shot way for frank to solve his problem. he said it himself..he's lo tech. he already uses a computer...i figured why not ?
    aside from personal choice, it seemed like a simple fix. not some vinyl vs. s.erato thread.

    the s.erato bashing is so corny at this point. build a bridge and get over it.

    embrace technology or get left behind.

    sounds like people would not go out and buy a transistor radio ( s.erato of its time maybe) when it 1st came out ?
    8 track , cassette, a mixer with a fader, a vcr, dvd, electric guitar,moog, arp (oh nooo fake strings!) fender rhodes, car vs. horse & carriage... that list can go on & on to include anything electronic.



    " Basically, this will do to DJs what DJs did to live bands"

    matt cassell told me when he intitally put his record out, he hated djs ( that played nothing but VINYL) for this reason.
    30 years later>>> the irony of him thanking a dj for getting his music out to a much wider audience...and putting him on the map in a way that he never had before, was priceless.

  • it just seems insane to me that youd rather go out and buy/try to see if all of these other electronic gadgets MAY or MAY not work, rather than the one gadget with no buttons, that WILL work.

    Interesting post overall, but the above quote is a little out there.
    As said by a few others, the feedback eliminator WILL work.
    That's why they are produced in the first place, for this
    exact problem.

    Do I have this right?

    Frank is lo-tech so he should learn an entirely new software system,
    not to mention an entirely new way of spinning records, AND spend
    the 100s of hours burning all his wax?
    This is better than spending 200 on a "gadget", installing it in
    an hour and then going about his buisness?

    Lol at this thread going two full pages and ending up getting
    people all heated about Microwave.
    He had the correct answer by post five.
    lulz.

    P.S. S.erato is rad and I wish I had it.

  • objective post of the year.

  • Don't know about all that, but the point seemed rather obvious.

  • i know - i'm not being facetious...the answer to the problem was stated in the 5th post.

  • spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
    I agree with everything Kon has said so far.

    I also think though that when Frank is spinning, given the type of music and the story behind his time in Africa, it is pretty damn cool to see someone play what are basically artifacts of a lost era. But I'm a record nerd. I never expect anyone else to care, nor should they really.

    Microwave rules. At first I had issues with the sound in the first few revisions but once that got fixed I'm a huge fan now, especially with the better soundcard in the SL3. Sh*t is magic and saved all of us from having to use goddamn piece of crap CDJs when playing digital-only files. Not to mention traveling...I got asked to DJ last weekend and could just say yes without thinking, knowing that everything I could want to play fits in my laptop bag. I feel like people who have dealt with the immense hassle of lugging around records should be appreciating this more, not less...

  • You guys need to start a seperate "Microwave Rules!!!" thread.
    I, for one, would read it and enjoy it, as I think the technology
    is cool as hell and am too poor to get it, and wish to live
    vicariously through those who have it.

    But THIS thread is about FEEDBACK and I think alot of folks could
    learn something here, as evidenced by all the replies calling for
    foam rubber turntable booties and whatnot.

    Lord Radio, you should start a thread about HEADROOM and how to get it
    and use it, as I have found this to be a completely lost art, or at least
    at my local club experience.

    PS- I hope Frank gets a FE and fixes his problem, but please
    keep the torture chamber hanging-from-the-ceiling setup intact.
    That is just so awesome to me.

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    sorry to jump on the hijak, but....

    one thing the dildo fanboyz always fail to mention is sound quality. CDs sound bad and most MP3s (WAV, oog, m4a, etc.) sound even worse.

    am i crazy to think vinyl actually sounds better?

    i look fwd to digital sound as that is as good as analog sound. but until then, all ya'll got is convenience and whatever that "i live in the future" bullshit is supposed to be about.

    i had Microwave and sold it.

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    i write checks
    have a house phone
    use the phone book
    get off my lawn

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    You guys need to start a seperate "Microwave Rules!!!" thread.
    I, for one, would read it and enjoy it, as I think the technology
    is cool as hell and am too poor to get it, and wish to live
    vicariously through those who have it.


    That would be about every post, every day around the time you registered.

  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
    Thanks everyone for the advice ya'll gave Frank. My new regular gig turned out to be completely feedback-laden with bass rumble to the point that my co-DJ and I were discussing it with the bartenders & managers after hours. This is a real problem because some of the other DJs throughout the week (cough - mannybolone - cough) use Microwave and even CDs while we're strictly vinyl so we're looking bad in comparison.

    I'm gonna re-read this thread and probably pick up an anti-feedback unit this weekend so we can kill the problem once and for all. If it works, I'll suggest that the bar buy it from me.

  • DustedDonDustedDon 830 Posts
    ok this thread is pretty much a dead horse but here's my 2 cents.

    1)don't stop playing records (especially RAERs)
    2)for feed back issues get a frequency elimintator if you have a consistent problem and a weekly gig, if the club values you maybe they'll buy it for you.
    3)get Microwave (seriously why the f*ck wouldn't you?)


  • FrankFrank 2,379 Posts
    I got one of those feedback destroyers and will find out tonight if and how this works... if you want to be a witness to triumph or failure, come and see/hear for yourself:




  • DelayDelay 4,530 Posts
    come on soulstrut... brave the fraggle-rock-laden union pool, and check out the boy.
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