THE SKY is falling on us - or at least the top of it is. The height of the upper atmosphere has dropped by five miles since 1958, according to scientists at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) in Cambridge.
The researchers made the discovery when they analysed records of a 40- year-old experiment to bounce radio waves off the ionosphere, the electrically charged part of the upper atmosphere. The radio waves have been taking less time to return than they did in 1958. This could only be explained by a fall in the ionosphere's height.
Who are these people who hired Obama, Harvey? Yes, I am waiting for the truth.
Now don't laugh and go all Ron Pauly on me....
But I believe it's this guy....
Just google his name along with Cathy O'Brien and you will discover the secrets of CIA Mind Control, Bohemian Grove, Sex Slaves and the future of our Lizard controlled planet.
I promise you a story that will have your head swimming and beer squirting out of your nose with laughter.
THE SKY is falling on us - or at least the top of it is. The height of the upper atmosphere has dropped by five miles since 1958, according to scientists at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) in Cambridge.
The researchers made the discovery when they analysed records of a 40- year-old experiment to bounce radio waves off the ionosphere, the electrically charged part of the upper atmosphere. The radio waves have been taking less time to return than they did in 1958. This could only be explained by a fall in the ionosphere's height.
It seems lately this is everyone's handy explanation to any/everything. That, and the banking/military-industrial complex.
Yeah, global warming is basically just some abstract issue that shifts blame to national governments and distracts us from the real problem, namely habitat destruction and the depletion of our natural resources.
So, shall we start a pool on the first airlines to get nationalized?
So let's look at this: a CEO of an auto company who has taken billions of dollars in gov't aid and is asking for billions more from the gov't was asked to resign.
Big. f*cking. Deal.
Many of the companies that have taken gov't money have had management changes but none of that equals nationalization.
What are you worried about exactly? You think the US is going to turn out like the Mugabe-run Zimbabwe?
Yeah, I don't think so. I may not be crazy with White House policy but I felt that way the LAST eight years, which, to me, seemed a lot more draconian than seeing incompetent businessmen getting run out of their CEO positions as their companies are headed towards bankruptcy without taxpayer aid.
Can you name another instance when the President/Government fired the CEO of a major company?
I'm not defending the dude they fired, but if you don't see the significance of this, then there's a lot you don't understand.
You have yet to explain what you think this is leading to. The government intervenes in private industry all the time, not the least of which are things that empower CEOs and corporations. So the government has now turned around and intervened in a different direction by forcing the CEO of a failing corporation on the public dole out. If GM wanted to avoid that fate, then they should have stopped asking the gov't for money and risked their company in the open market or, at least, bankruptcy court (which would have been a different form of gov't intervention).
So what are you panicked about? I have yet to see you articulate where you think this is leading.
Good question, but I never claimed to have the answer. The clowns running this show don't either. That's the scary part.
I do know that it will lead to massive debt the likes of which nobody here has experienced. The fact is that the U.S. has basically been prosperous, despite ups and downs, the entire lives of everyone who posts here.
Look into what life was like during the Depression and WWII. I know most people here think they know, but I bet you don't. And I don't think most people here would like it, either.
Can you name another instance when the President/Government fired the CEO of a major company?
Yes. Another car company. DeLorian.
Didn't happen. Delorean just went bankrupt.
No. He was the target of an FBI set up designed to remove him and his car company from the market. He was acquitted of all charges, but his reputation and car company was destroyed.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
yeah cause a little more than 8 weeks pretty much equates to 8 years anyway
Quit playing left hand against right hand...it will give you the clap.
direct ron paul quote
Is that your preferred way of dismissing the truth? Put a Ron Paul mask on it and laugh?
Obama isn't undoing anything from "the last 8 years". He's building on it...as he was hired to do.
LOL
Who are these people who hired Obama, Harvey? Yes, I am waiting for the truth.
In short...the banking elite/military-industrial complex.
Not sure why that's so hard to understand.
Names, please. And sources. Not sure why that's so hard for a one-time journalist to understand. You might as well say the Easter Bunny.
Oh no, you called me a one-time journalist. That's gotta challenege me to jump through your hoops...for no good reason. You've heard the names Brzezinski and Soros for instance closely tied to Obama since his campaign started. So you already have names. But you don't want to believe that presidents are installed by the power elite rather than elected by the general populace. You might as well say the Easter Bunny.
Think about it... In recent weeks the government has obtained legal and financial control, and ownership of:
- The banks - The insurance companies - The auto companies - The housing economy
And soon, through "green" mandates, the energy market.
All because they "have" to.
No, I'm not talking about some perceived string pulling, I'm talking straight up ownership. All paid for with money that we (yes, you and me, and our grandkids) now owe to China.
And no, this isn't a Left/Right, Rep/Dem issue, it's a people/government issue.
Does this bother anyone but me?
Not scared.
You sound like the guy who peed his pants when he saw the button eyes in Coraline.
The main problem is the money will never be recouped. It will take at least 5 years for GM to develop a line of cars that people will be able to use in the next 20 years. They should be punished for their idiocy, but that will mean millions of extra unemployed if you include all the peripheral industries of the car business. Unrest and resentment at the govt will follow.
At least after the war, Britain still had some colonies to offload all their obsolete tools and machinery. Lucky for Indian taxi drivers. Not.
I do know that it will lead to massive debt the likes of which nobody here has experienced. The fact is that the U.S. has basically been prosperous, despite ups and downs, the entire lives of everyone who posts here.
Look into what life was like during the Depression and WWII. I know most people here think they know, but I bet you don't. And I don't think most people here would like it, either.
Ok - now we're getting somewhere. And I agree - most people don't want to go back to the days of the Depression...which is why, I think, most people are NOT worried that the gov't is trying to step in to make sure we DON'T go back to those days.
Hence why I'm confused. If the gov't does nothing, it's a much surer reality that we'd go from bad recession into really bad depression.
I don't like deficit spending - didn't like it under Bush, not a bigger fan of it under Obama - but to me, Bush's deficit spending was specifically to benefit things like the military and neo-liberal "nation-building" overseas. Obama's deficit spending SEEMS to be more about saving our livelihoods in the short run, with the hope (and perhaps a naive one) that it will pay off in the long run.
yeah cause a little more than 8 weeks pretty much equates to 8 years anyway
Quit playing left hand against right hand...it will give you the clap.
direct ron paul quote
Is that your preferred way of dismissing the truth? Put a Ron Paul mask on it and laugh?
Obama isn't undoing anything from "the last 8 years". He's building on it...as he was hired to do.
LOL
Who are these people who hired Obama, Harvey? Yes, I am waiting for the truth.
In short...the banking elite/military-industrial complex.
Not sure why that's so hard to understand.
Names, please. And sources. Not sure why that's so hard for a one-time journalist to understand. You might as well say the Easter Bunny.
Oh no, you called me a one-time journalist. That's gotta challenege me to jump through your hoops...for no good reason. You've heard the names Brzezinski and Soros for instance closely tied to Obama since his campaign started. So you already have names. But you don't want to believe that presidents are installed by the power elite rather than elected by the general populace. You might as well say the Easter Bunny.
The main problem is the money will never be recouped. It will take at least 5 years for GM to develop a line of cars that people will be able to use in the next 20 years. They should be punished for their idiocy, but that will mean millions of extra unemployed if you include all the peripheral industries of the car business. Unrest and resentment at the govt will follow.
At least after the war, Britain still had some colonies to offload all their obsolete tools and machinery. Lucky for Indian taxi drivers. Not.
Why is GM 5 years behind in development? Why can't they speed up this process? Perhaps more people need to be fired and a few competent people hired. Seems like they have been bragging about their soon to be unveiled electric cars since the 70s.
I do know that it will lead to massive debt the likes of which nobody here has experienced. The fact is that the U.S. has basically been prosperous, despite ups and downs, the entire lives of everyone who posts here.
Look into what life was like during the Depression and WWII. I know most people here think they know, but I bet you don't. And I don't think most people here would like it, either.
Ok - now we're getting somewhere. And I agree - most people don't want to go back to the days of the Depression...which is why, I think, most people are NOT worried that the gov't is trying to step in to make sure we DON'T go back to those days.
Hence why I'm confused. If the gov't does nothing, it's a much surer reality that we'd go from bad recession into really bad depression.
I don't like deficit spending - didn't like it under Bush, not a bigger fan of it under Obama - but to me, Bush's deficit spending was specifically to benefit things like the military and neo-liberal "nation-building" overseas. Obama's deficit spending SEEMS to be more about saving our livelihoods in the short run, with the hope (and perhaps a naive one) that it will pay off in the long run.
I think one difference is that this is ALL borrowed money, and the service on the debt alone will be staggering.
In addition, it counts on the U.S. being able to sell treasury bonds for years to come. China has already said they are getting uneasy with their holdings. If they don't buy, we could be screwed. Of course, China has a vested interest in the U.S., and would be reluctant to trigger a collapse, but how far will they go?
Why is GM 5 years behind in development? Why can't they speed up this process? Perhaps more people need to be fired and a few competent people hired. Seems like they have been bragging about their soon to be unveiled electric cars since the 70s.
It takes at least 4 years to get a car from drawing board to showroom. GM is about 10 years behind in development: obsolete V8 engine related. Right now all the Chevy V8s in the world are worth more as scrap than all the 4cyl cars GM would be able to design and build in the next 20 years. They are done. They would have to rebuild all their US market factories, partner with successful foreign small car makers (ie not really Fiat) and avoid getting taken over and asset stripped like Chrysler got played by Daimler (Jeep drive train related).
And less than 2 years ago they were talking about axing Pontiac and building more Denalis. They have no brains.
I believe the answer for GM and every other U.S. car manufacturer is to build a device that can be retrofitted on all their existing vehicles that will substantially increase gas mileage......and while they are building and installing these devices they need to spend ALL of their other efforts on designing a vehicle that will suit our needs in the future....they don't need to build another new vehicle until that has been accomplished.
Can you name another instance when the President/Government fired the CEO of a major company?
Yes. Another car company. DeLorian.
Didn't happen. Delorean just went bankrupt.
No. He was the target of an FBI set up designed to remove him and his car company from the market. He was acquitted of all charges, but his reputation and car company was destroyed.
Ok, which is more likely: there was a huge conspiracy involving the government and FBI to frame the CEO of a small automobile company that made exactly ONE model of car and produced only 9,000 over THREE YEARS -or-
the guy was doing shady shit.
The conspiracy theory makes no sense. GM spends more money on their executive washroom than was put into the entire DeLorean franchise.
If they wanted DeLorean out of commission someone, somewhere, somehow could have farted out enough money to simply buy the company and close it.
I do know that it will lead to massive debt the likes of which nobody here has experienced. The fact is that the U.S. has basically been prosperous, despite ups and downs, the entire lives of everyone who posts here.
Look into what life was like during the Depression and WWII. I know most people here think they know, but I bet you don't. And I don't think most people here would like it, either.
Ok - now we're getting somewhere. And I agree - most people don't want to go back to the days of the Depression...which is why, I think, most people are NOT worried that the gov't is trying to step in to make sure we DON'T go back to those days.
Hence why I'm confused. If the gov't does nothing, it's a much surer reality that we'd go from bad recession into really bad depression.
I don't like deficit spending - didn't like it under Bush, not a bigger fan of it under Obama - but to me, Bush's deficit spending was specifically to benefit things like the military and neo-liberal "nation-building" overseas. Obama's deficit spending SEEMS to be more about saving our livelihoods in the short run, with the hope (and perhaps a naive one) that it will pay off in the long run.
I think one difference is that this is ALL borrowed money, and the service on the debt alone will be staggering.
In addition, it counts on the U.S. being able to sell treasury bonds for years to come. China has already said they are getting uneasy with their holdings. If they don't buy, we could be screwed. Of course, China has a vested interest in the U.S., and would be reluctant to trigger a collapse, but how far will they go?
It is not "ALL borrowed money". You don't help yourself by just making up lies.
China passed Japan as our largest debt holder in Sept of 2008. http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt The list of debt holders is freighting.
If any of those countries chooses to default we are fusked. China remains one of the most oppressive dictatorships in the world. Any time they choose they could become the most powerful military in the world.
According to White House Budget estimates (yeah right) the deficit will start declining in 5 years and be balanced in 10.
At this point there is no budget, so things will change.
We need a new top tax rate. The top rate of about $250,000 was set around WWI (thats a one) to punish the uberwealthy robber barons. It was between 90-75% until GHW Bush's times. We need to reinstate a 75% tax rate on those earning over something like 2.5mil.
I believe the answer for GM and every other U.S. car manufacturer is to build a device that can be retrofitted on all their existing vehicles that will substantially increase gas mileage......and while they are building and installing these devices they need to spend ALL of their other efforts on designing a vehicle that will suit our needs in the future....they don't need to build another new vehicle until that has been accomplished.
Yes, this is a great idea. Retrofitting existing crap sounds kind of socialist though. How would the stock market feel about that?
Can you name another instance when the President/Government fired the CEO of a major company?
Yes. Another car company. DeLorian.
Didn't happen. Delorean just went bankrupt.
No. He was the target of an FBI set up designed to remove him and his car company from the market. He was acquitted of all charges, but his reputation and car company was destroyed.
Ok, which is more likely: there was a huge conspiracy involving the government and FBI to frame the CEO of a small automobile company that made exactly ONE model of car and produced only 9,000 over THREE YEARS -or-
the guy was doing shady shit.
The conspiracy theory makes no sense. GM spends more money on their executive washroom than was put into the entire DeLorean franchise.
If they wanted DeLorean out of commission someone, somewhere, somehow could have farted out enough money to simply buy the company and close it.
Can you name another instance when the President/Government fired the CEO of a major company?
Yes. Another car company. DeLorian.
Didn't happen. Delorean just went bankrupt.
No. He was the target of an FBI set up designed to remove him and his car company from the market. He was acquitted of all charges, but his reputation and car company was destroyed.
Ok, which is more likely: there was a huge conspiracy involving the government and FBI to frame the CEO of a small automobile company that made exactly ONE model of car and produced only 9,000 over THREE YEARS -or-
the guy was doing shady shit.
The conspiracy theory makes no sense. GM spends more money on their executive washroom than was put into the entire DeLorean franchise.
If they wanted DeLorean out of commission someone, somewhere, somehow could have farted out enough money to simply buy the company and close it.
Right. And there are no Masons.
It doesn't make any sense! Even if someone did wanted him shut down, why wouldn't they just buy it instead of doing some super secret covert frame-up of the CEO?
And what would the threat be to anyone else? Were they afraid that a car co producing 3,000 of a single model of car was going to topple GM? Cars that were produced in Ireland?
I believe the answer for GM and every other U.S. car manufacturer is to build a device that can be retrofitted on all their existing vehicles that will substantially increase gas mileage......and while they are building and installing these devices they need to spend ALL of their other efforts on designing a vehicle that will suit our needs in the future....they don't need to build another new vehicle until that has been accomplished.
Yes, this is a great idea. Retrofitting existing crap sounds kind of socialist though. How would the stock market feel about that?
Please to explain what is even remotely Socialist about this idea?
Comments
Yes.
Another car company.
DeLorian.
In short...the banking elite/military-industrial complex.
Not sure why that's so hard to understand.
The researchers made the discovery when they analysed records of a 40- year-old experiment to bounce radio waves off the ionosphere, the electrically charged part of the upper atmosphere. The radio waves have been taking less time to return than they did in 1958. This could only be explained by a fall in the ionosphere's height.
The most likely explanation is global warming.
Now don't laugh and go all Ron Pauly on me....
But I believe it's this guy....
Just google his name along with Cathy O'Brien and you will discover the secrets of CIA Mind Control, Bohemian Grove, Sex Slaves and the future of our Lizard controlled planet.
I promise you a story that will have your head swimming and beer squirting out of your nose with laughter.
Names, please. And sources. Not sure why that's so hard for a one-time journalist to understand. You might as well say the Easter Bunny.
It seems lately this is everyone's handy explanation to any/everything. That, and the banking/military-industrial complex.
Didn't happen. Delorean just went bankrupt.
Yeah, global warming is basically just some abstract issue that shifts blame to national governments and distracts us from the real problem, namely habitat destruction and the depletion of our natural resources.
So, shall we start a pool on the first airlines to get nationalized?
Right.
We should not let history and context interfere with our conspiracy theories.
[harvey]DON'T FORGET THE CIA/CONTRA CONNECTION[/harvey]
Good question, but I never claimed to have the answer. The clowns running this show don't either. That's the scary part.
I do know that it will lead to massive debt the likes of which nobody here has experienced. The fact is that the U.S. has basically been prosperous, despite ups and downs, the entire lives of everyone who posts here.
Look into what life was like during the Depression and WWII. I know most people here think they know, but I bet you don't. And I don't think most people here would like it, either.
No.
He was the target of an FBI set up designed to remove him and his car company from the market.
He was acquitted of all charges, but his reputation and car company was destroyed.
Oh no, you called me a one-time journalist. That's gotta challenege me to jump through your hoops...for no good reason. You've heard the names Brzezinski and Soros for instance closely tied to Obama since his campaign started. So you already have names. But you don't want to believe that presidents are installed by the power elite rather than elected by the general populace. You might as well say the Easter Bunny.
You sound like the guy who peed his pants when he saw the button eyes in Coraline.
At least after the war, Britain still had some colonies to offload all their obsolete tools and machinery. Lucky for Indian taxi drivers. Not.
Ok - now we're getting somewhere. And I agree - most people don't want to go back to the days of the Depression...which is why, I think, most people are NOT worried that the gov't is trying to step in to make sure we DON'T go back to those days.
Hence why I'm confused. If the gov't does nothing, it's a much surer reality that we'd go from bad recession into really bad depression.
I don't like deficit spending - didn't like it under Bush, not a bigger fan of it under Obama - but to me, Bush's deficit spending was specifically to benefit things like the military and neo-liberal "nation-building" overseas. Obama's deficit spending SEEMS to be more about saving our livelihoods in the short run, with the hope (and perhaps a naive one) that it will pay off in the long run.
Oh, Ok. 'Power Elite'. That helps. Thanks.
Why is GM 5 years behind in development?
Why can't they speed up this process?
Perhaps more people need to be fired and a few competent people hired.
Seems like they have been bragging about their soon to be unveiled electric cars since the 70s.
I think one difference is that this is ALL borrowed money, and the service on the debt alone will be staggering.
In addition, it counts on the U.S. being able to sell treasury bonds for years to come. China has already said they are getting uneasy with their holdings. If they don't buy, we could be screwed. Of course, China has a vested interest in the U.S., and would be reluctant to trigger a collapse, but how far will they go?
It takes at least 4 years to get a car from drawing board to showroom. GM is about 10 years behind in development: obsolete V8 engine related. Right now all the Chevy V8s in the world are worth more as scrap than all the 4cyl cars GM would be able to design and build in the next 20 years. They are done. They would have to rebuild all their US market factories, partner with successful foreign small car makers (ie not really Fiat) and avoid getting taken over and asset stripped like Chrysler got played by Daimler (Jeep drive train related).
And less than 2 years ago they were talking about axing Pontiac and building more Denalis. They have no brains.
Armchair economists / Monday morning economists.
Of course, unlike football, few people have made amateur/high school economics decisions on a national or global basis.
Ok, which is more likely: there was a huge conspiracy involving the government and FBI to frame the CEO of a small automobile company that made exactly ONE model of car and produced only 9,000 over THREE YEARS -or-
the guy was doing shady shit.
The conspiracy theory makes no sense. GM spends more money on their executive washroom than was put into the entire DeLorean franchise.
If they wanted DeLorean out of commission someone, somewhere, somehow could have farted out enough money to simply buy the company and close it.
It is not "ALL borrowed money".
You don't help yourself by just making up lies.
China passed Japan as our largest debt holder in Sept of 2008.
http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
The list of debt holders is freighting.
If any of those countries chooses to default we are fusked.
China remains one of the most oppressive dictatorships in the world.
Any time they choose they could become the most powerful military in the world.
According to White House Budget estimates (yeah right) the deficit will start declining in 5 years and be balanced in 10.
At this point there is no budget, so things will change.
We need a new top tax rate. The top rate of about $250,000 was set around WWI (thats a one) to punish the uberwealthy robber barons. It was between 90-75% until GHW Bush's times. We need to reinstate a 75% tax rate on those earning over something like 2.5mil.
Yes, this is a great idea. Retrofitting existing crap sounds kind of socialist though. How would the stock market feel about that?
Right. And there are no Masons.
It doesn't make any sense! Even if someone did wanted him shut down, why wouldn't they just buy it instead of doing some super secret covert frame-up of the CEO?
And what would the threat be to anyone else? Were they afraid that a car co producing 3,000 of a single model of car was going to topple GM? Cars that were produced in Ireland?
I'm just trying to get the angle here.
Please to explain what is even remotely Socialist about this idea?