I can kinda see what KVH is saying. I'm all for making things easier so you can concentrate on shit that really matters (reading the crowd, planning your next few songs, taking a piss, etc) but I mean, there's a reason why people using shit like this either still trainwreck somehow or just have a real shitty selection. I'd imagine it's also pretty f*cking boring to use too.
I can kinda see what KVH is saying. I'm all for making things easier so you can concentrate on shit that really matters (reading the crowd, planning your next few songs, taking a piss, etc) but I mean, there's a reason why people using shit like this either still trainwreck somehow or just have a real shitty selection. I'd imagine it's also pretty f*cking boring to use too.
But that's the thing...if you're a skilled DJing, it's not like you have to concentrate hard on the mixing part of it; that comes naturally through practice and talent. Therefore, where the bulk of your mental energy is directed is at all the things you just noted.
The point repeated throughout this thread has been: in order to get to that point, where you don't have to think hard about mixing, you have to know how to mix.
If an automix function does that work for you, then you haven't mastered anything. That doesn't mean you can't program a killer playlist or read the crowd. And those latter skills are important too. But if you can't beat-match? That's like knowing how to do a reverse dunk off the backboard but can't dribble the ball.
Spesking as a non-DJ, Enjoyer of mixed music, unless you're in the booth, physical manipulation of records/serrato/cds is irrelevant. Aside from a djs personal pride in craftmanship and the respect of other djs, what difference does it make? the listener is usually unaware of the medium. All things being equal what makes a superior DJ has a lot more to do with song selection, doesn't it?
Aside from a djs personal pride in craftmanship and the respect of other djs, what difference does it make?
It doesn't.
But this thread has been all about "respect of other DJs." For the non-DJ, this probably doesn't matter at all and that's fine. It doesn't have to. But this thread isn't about the use of technology from the end consumers p.o.v.
if you were learning how to mix...it would be easier to learn how to mix using Microwave than just your ears. I think people are downplaying the aid of the visual waveform in the argument. If you can SEE the downbeats and how they line up with the other track, then it is a lot easier than just using your ears...the argument that "you have to know how to mix" to use Microwave is kinda not completely true...
if you were learning how to mix...it would be easier to learn how to mix using Microwave than just your ears. I think people are downplaying the aid of the visual waveform in the argument. If you can SEE the downbeats and how they line up with the other track, then it is a lot easier than just using your ears...the argument that "you have to know how to mix" to use Microwave is kinda not completely true...
Word. And frankly, I've been finding that the easy reliance on the visual waveform is making my mixing worse. I have to really push myself NOT to look at it and instead, trust my ears.
That dude in the youtube thinks he is DJing, but he's really just playing a video game. It sounded cool and he obviously has skills and knowledge, but there's no jockeying of discs taking place. Its furiously pressing buttons and intensely watching a screen a la myself playing Super R-Type III in 6th grade.
Not trying to sound deragatory or slow the advance of technology or anything. People can and should do what they want and whatever they pick makes no difference to me. It is fast coming to the point, though, where the term "DJ" is going to mean 10 different things to as many people. The fastest way to settle this debate is toadopt an industry wide standard calling vinyl folks DJs and laptop folks something else, EJs or some shit.
Don't kill me for this but I've never in my life paid any attention on how a DJ mixes anything. If a DJ doesn't have records I'm interested in hearing, I don't want to go and hear him, regardless what skills he might have. If a DJ has records I want to hear, I want to hear the records being played from the beginning to the end of each track and at the proper speed. I've never mixed or blended or done anything else with a record besides putting it on the turntable and press "start" when the other song ends and I've never even felt the slightest urge to do anything more.
I wonder where all this laptop DJing is going to lead to in the end. Probably to a huge inflation of bottom grade celebrities trying to make a buck. Once the recession really hits, there will be legions of have-been, former wanna-be stars from TV or music business dj-ing topless for $150 a night with their laptops on autopilot. Thank goodness, my NYE resolution was to stop going to nightclubs.
Don't kill me for this but I've never in my life paid any attention on how a DJ mixes anything. If a DJ doesn't have records I'm interested in hearing, I don't want to go and hear him, regardless what skills he might have. If a DJ has records I want to hear, I want to hear the records being played from the beginning to the end of each track and at the proper speed. I've never mixed or blended or done anything else with a record besides putting it on the turntable and press "start" when the other song ends and I've never even felt the slightest urge to do anything more.
Don't kill me for this but I've never in my life paid any attention on how a DJ mixes anything. If a DJ doesn't have records I'm interested in hearing, I don't want to go and hear him, regardless what skills he might have. If a DJ has records I want to hear, I want to hear the records being played from the beginning to the end of each track and at the proper speed. I've never mixed or blended or done anything else with a record besides putting it on the turntable and press "start" when the other song ends and I've never even felt the slightest urge to do anything more.
I'm old but I'm not prehistoric... it's more a question of aesthetics for me and I simply don't think that the music I love was intended to be altered by creative DJs nor does it necessarily demand any mixing.
Don't kill me for this but I've never in my life paid any attention on how a DJ mixes anything. If a DJ doesn't have records I'm interested in hearing, I don't want to go and hear him, regardless what skills he might have. If a DJ has records I want to hear, I want to hear the records being played from the beginning to the end of each track and at the proper speed. I've never mixed or blended or done anything else with a record besides putting it on the turntable and press "start" when the other song ends and I've never even felt the slightest urge to do anything more.
There's nothing offensive or distasteful in that attitude. What you seem to be expressing is a primary interest in songs rather than - for lack of a less flowery term - "musical experience."
All my DJ mentors were primarily mixers who, regardless if they were spinning hip-hop, dancehall, whatever, more or less came out of the disco-mixing tradition which was always focused on using DJing to create a holistic, hours-long musical experience/journey. Individual songs still mattered - of course - but it was also about how to sequence those songs, how to use songs as building blocks, blah blah blah. Mixing isn't an absolute requirement for that but the seamless mix has become standard for this particular school of DJing.
That doesn't mean that form of DJing is the only "real" one. It's just one type of DJing but it's one that has had a deep impact on hip-hop and club DJing. To that extent, I'm not mad at newer technology if it facilitates that process.
I also disagree with the idea that "it's like playing a video game." It's simply a different kind of skill. I mean, musicians used to (probably still do) snub their nose at DJs; to them, using a turntable and a mixer probably looks like a video game compared to knowing how to play a saxophone or violin.
Don't kill me for this but I've never in my life paid any attention on how a DJ mixes anything. If a DJ doesn't have records I'm interested in hearing, I don't want to go and hear him, regardless what skills he might have. If a DJ has records I want to hear, I want to hear the records being played from the beginning to the end of each track and at the proper speed. I've never mixed or blended or done anything else with a record besides putting it on the turntable and press "start" when the other song ends and I've never even felt the slightest urge to do anything more.
I'm old but I'm not prehistoric... it's more a question of aesthetics for me and I simply don't think that the music I love was intended to be altered by creative DJs nor does it necessarily demand any mixing.
There are times when I appreciate hearing the entire song. Some of the best parts are in the last 30 seconds, but all art can be recontexualized. Im not sayin it should, but to think that any musical genre should be invulnerable to mixing sounds suspect to me.
U can play the music "u Love" your way. That's how u want to cook. Others might want to alter the presentation. If its done well - I say whatever - let it be.
Chopped And Screwed,Blended w/ Acapellas,Isolate the Breakdown, Overlap w/ another genre, whatever.
There are times when I appreciate hearing the entire song. Some of the best parts are in the last 30 seconds, but all art can be recontexualized. Im not sayin it should, but to think that any musical genre should be invulnerable to mixing sounds suspect to me.
U can play the music "u Love" your way. That's how u want to cook. Others might want to alter the presentation. If its done well - I say whatever - let it be.
Chopped And Screwed,Blended w/ Acapellas,Isolate the Breakdown, Overlap w/ another genre, whatever.
Sure, I do understand the thought behind mixing, I understand the appeal it has on people and of course I have great respect on the skills necessary to execute this. I simply wanted to state that I personally prefer to hear entire songs. What's "suspect" about that? For example Funk 45s I always prefer to hear from the first to the very last moment. I understand that some people enjoy cutting them up and I respect this as an artform and everything but I just don't enjoy hearing this as much as I enjoy hearing entire, isolated songs. I'm not saying one shouldn't do it, of course everybody should be free to do whatever they want with their records but why go to the other extreme and say records have to be mixed?
There are times when I appreciate hearing the entire song. Some of the best parts are in the last 30 seconds, but all art can be recontexualized. Im not sayin it should, but to think that any musical genre should be invulnerable to mixing sounds suspect to me.
U can play the music "u Love" your way. That's how u want to cook. Others might want to alter the presentation. If its done well - I say whatever - let it be.
Chopped And Screwed,Blended w/ Acapellas,Isolate the Breakdown, Overlap w/ another genre, whatever.
Sure, I do understand the thought behind mixing, I understand the appeal it has on people and of course I have great respect on the skills necessary to execute this. I simply wanted to state that I personally prefer to hear entire songs. What's "suspect" about that? For example Funk 45s I always prefer to hear from the first to the very last moment. I understand that some people enjoy cutting them up and I respect this as an artform and everything but I just don't enjoy hearing this as much as I enjoy hearing entire, isolated songs. I'm not saying one shouldn't do it, of course everybody should be free to do whatever they want with their records but why go to the other extreme and say records have to be mixed?
I simply don't think that the music I love was intended to be altered
Nothin suspect about your choice in hearin the whole song, but to confine music to its "original" presentation, i find suspect.
Wouldnt that mean there would be no Covers?
Nowhere in my poast did i say records should be remixed.
Instead of going through this whole thread and quoting everything, I'm just gonna say MannyBalone has pretty squarely nailed my opinion.
I appreciate (like alot of dj's and people that are serious about music) hearing great music in its entirety. It doesn't always have to be mixed or blended but looking at an average club crowd, we are few and far between. You have to take the lowest common denominators into consideration. I have never dj'ed for a crowd of strictly dj's and I don't think I would want to.
I've seen some heavy dudes play some serious sh*t un-mixed and the crowd just wasn't with them and I don't think you can be mad at the crowd for that.
I definitely don't want to under-emphasize the importance of the music but anybody can stock a jukebox with great records. You gotta have more skills than that jukebox to be a dj, though.
I I definitely don't want to under-emphasize the importance of the music but anybody can stock a jukebox with great records. You gotta have more skills than that jukebox to be a dj, though.
straight up !
while i may very well enjoy the reocords you own....just because you collect and own amazing records doesnt mean jack shit. if you cant program a night, get the F*ck out the dj booth...stay home where you belong making podcasts for all to enjoy...sorry. programming is another skill that takes a very long time to master, pitch, key, mood, etc. disco 12s" by design were MEANT to be mixed.
this thread really wasnt even about that all of that for me, it was about the nature of whats being lost here. the respect and art of it all. i fully embrace technology. im just not feeling being replaced by a robot.
also...o dub always comes with a tasteful way of putting it in perspective, while i sometimes am on some harsh F*ck off type vibe. props to you sir !
I definitely don't want to under-emphasize the importance of the music but anybody can stock a jukebox with great records.
no they cant. The music a DJ plays is the most important thing, nothing else trumps selection in DJing.
Like I said, music is the most important thing. BUT, I do think anybody with time and energy can do some research and have a bunch of good music to play. How many people are there out there with ridiculous record collections and deep musical knowledge that don't get as many gigs, if any, as somebody that can rock a crowd?
Selection is the foundation but it doesn't stop there.
while i may very well enjoy the reocords you own....just because you collect and own amazing records doesnt mean jack shit. if you cant program a night, get the F*ck out the dj booth...stay home where you belong making podcasts for all to enjoy...sorry. programming is another skill that takes a very long time to master, pitch, key, mood, etc. disco 12s" by design were MEANT to be mixed.
Why do you think it's up to you to say who's got a right to be in a DJ booth? I've made a living from DJ-ing on 3 continents for some 15 years and never mixed, cut up or beatmatched anything.
And maybe you want to watch your tone of voice when talking to people who've run around African cities licensing songs for you and your friend's last record simply to help out and without any compansation while you were busy "digging" through a Queens doctor's record collections and air conditioned record stores in Manhattan.
Seriously... that's what I get for doing you a favor? You might have great skills on the turntables but you need to work on your social skills.
I mean, musicians used to (probably still do) snub their nose at DJs; to them, using a turntable and a mixer probably looks like a video game compared to knowing how to play a saxophone or violin.
I played in a band of 8 folks, two rappers, one vocalist, and the rest heavy metal musicians. The heavy metal dudes thought I had captured an alien in my basement when I showed them my setup. They were f*ckin clueless, shit I know what your instruments are, you all have played live in front on many people, and you have never seen a mixer before??? Come on. DJing is an art form, lets no forget. In its purest and naturalist form, its a beautiful thing.
while i may very well enjoy the reocords you own....just because you collect and own amazing records doesnt mean jack shit. if you cant program a night, get the F*ck out the dj booth...stay home where you belong making podcasts for all to enjoy...sorry. programming is another skill that takes a very long time to master, pitch, key, mood, etc. disco 12s" by design were MEANT to be mixed.
Why do you think it's up to you to say who's got a right to be in a DJ booth? I've made a living from DJ-ing onh 3 continents for some 15 years and never mixed, cut up or beatmatched anything.
And maybe you want to watch your tone of voice when talking to people who've run around African cities licensing songs for you and your friends' last record as a favor and without any compansation while you were busy "digging" through record collections in Queens and record stores in Manhattan.
Seriously... that's what you get for being nice to people.
Yes! The '09 drunk posting fad continues!
Really though when it comes to being a DJ, as a personal preference, I'm with you on the integrity argument 90%. The missing 10% being I pitch 45s up all the time and I fade out early if the night is getting late and there are more things I want to squeeze in.
But as a frequent spectator in the DJ game, attending various nights and so forth, I can sympathize with those who don't really want to dance to the entire 11 minutes of the same afrobeat cut. Its sort of nerdy to force that on people.
The other thing is that most DJs on here are coming from a hip hop angle where the DJ is as important as what he/she is playing. You obviously are coming at it from a different place so it doesn't really make sense to be chastising hip-hop DJs for doing what hip hop DJs have always done. Its not really even part of your world.
That being said, I'd still attend a Franko night 8 days a week over any hair gel Billie Jean mash-up Serrato fest.
Really though when it comes to being a DJ, as a personal preference, I'm with you on the integrity argument 90%. The missing 10% being I pitch 45s up all the time and I fade out early if the night is getting late and there are more things I want to squeeze in.
But as a frequent spectator in the DJ game, attending various nights and so forth, I can sympathize with those who don't really want to dance to the entire 11 minutes of the same afrobeat cut. Its sort of nerdy to force that on people.
The other thing is that most DJs on here are coming from a hip hop angle where the DJ is as important as what he/she is playing. You obviously are coming at it from a different place so it doesn't really make sense to be chastising hip-hop DJs for doing what hip hop DJs have always done. Its not really even part of your world.
That being said, I'd still attend a Franko night 8 days a week over any hair gel Billie Jean mash-up Serrato fest.
I wasn't chastising anybody, I think I made it clear that I have a great deal of respect for mixing skills. My point was only that for me, personally, I prefer to hear my music "unmixed" at home or at the club. As you said, a personal preference. Nothing more. I just don't agree with the arguement that nobody who plays records without mixing or beatmatching should be allowed inside a DJ booth. That would be chastising, or am I missing something?
I've seen plenty of DJs with skills and have enjoyed watching them work. I have various friends who are pretty damn good DJs. They all know how much I respect their skills and none of them ever had any problem with me just playing one record after another... I don't understand why some people expect everybody else to play by their rules? That's silly and smacks of insecurity.
Music that was recorded years before Hip Hop doesn't have to be played out according to the rules of Hip Hop, whatever those shall be. Disco 12s weren't designed so people could mix them, they were designed because the tracks were too long to be pressed on 7 inch records. David Mancuso didn't mix but hey, he probably wasn't a "real DJ"...
while i may very well enjoy the reocords you own....just because you collect and own amazing records doesnt mean jack shit. if you cant program a night, get the F*ck out the dj booth...stay home where you belong making podcasts for all to enjoy...sorry. programming is another skill that takes a very long time to master, pitch, key, mood, etc. disco 12s" by design were MEANT to be mixed.
Why do you think it's up to you to say who's got a right to be in a DJ booth? I've made a living from DJ-ing on 3 continents for some 15 years and never mixed, cut up or beatmatched anything.
And maybe you want to watch your tone of voice when talking to people who've run around African cities licensing songs for you and your friend's last record simply to help out and without any compansation while you were busy "digging" through a Queens doctor's record collections and air conditioned record stores in Manhattan.
Seriously... that's what I get for doing you a favor? You might have great skills on the turntables but you need to work on your social skills. whooooooaaaaa frank, relax.
1st off, why are you taking offense to what i've said.. do you feel this was directed at you ? ive never even heard you play, ever! so how could it be toward you ? ive also heard that you play some incredible sets.
that was a general statement, towards all " djs" who really have no idea what they are doing, whether its house or reggae or just about any music...( and buy programs to this for them) i know this because ive heard it...they struggle and dont belong working in clubs. im sure you know many collectors that have some amazing records and i bet you know they have no idea how to run them within the club context....while at home or for personal enjoyment is another thing.
frank, if i were to have an issue with you i would have been much more direct. im that dude. im quite assertive and confrontational.
secondly, im not amir. you licensed songs for amir, ive never been to any doctors house either.
sure, i hit up big city and the rest of the shops while in nyc...so what.
the tone of your reply regarding your help for amir while he "digs" in doctors houses and air conditioned rooms.... in light of that...i dont think amir would appreciate your tone.
all in all, my post was not in any way, a bullet for you...i think you misunderstood my point. no disrespect towards you. btw amir does not mix.
Disco 12s weren't designed so people could mix them, they were designed because the tracks were too long to be pressed on 7 inch records. David Mancuso didn't mix but hey, he probably wasn't a "real DJ"...
wrong. the INVENTION of the 12" was an accident, because the studio had run out of the 45 acetates.not because the song was too long.
after realizing what you could do with the 12" format , groups and djs and producers would be hired to mix these sessions and made 12"s mixes specifically for the djs who MIX in the clubs...extended mix with breakdowns for you to mix in and out of with much more ease. not to mention certain 12"s where you can actually see the grooves split into sections for what they called "eye cueing".
now where on a whole nutha topic. this isnt a battle about mancuso or djs that can mix/not mix from that era...if it were people like nicky siano were already doing what david couldnt do, mix. they are both highly respected and legendary icons in the world of disco.
while i feel my angle is deep rooted in hip hop style mixing, prior to "hip hop" i was listening to disco being mixed in clubs in 79'....which to me are the fundamentals of it all. riding mixes, 16/32 counts not slamming hip hop records that are 4 bar/ 8 bar intro 16 bar verse etc. same with funk 45s, they are 3 minute songs usually with no design for djs in clubs..the boom of discoteques hadnt even happened yet.
niche themed nights is what your talking about, im not really speaking on that. does keb darge play great sets...ive seen him kill it....not mixing. although i dont want to hear him play dance music in that context.
frank, i agree with you that a certain style night of music need not be mixed, but its a plus when the records you play dont own you.
and so continues another chapter in soulstrut history. like yours.....my world dont stop......
Im just goign to jump in here and give my two cents as a total f*cking noob on these boards
Ive been record collecting since 91 and have done a lot of dj??ng in clubs and bars and shit - I only ever use vinyl cause thats all i collect - it doesnt mean anything to me unless I have a vinyl copy - i f*cking hate cds etc. no beef towards anyone otherwise inclined its just my personal thing -
i have been noticing nowadays when dj'ing the turntables are being pushed to the background - everyone focuses on cd's now - which is wack to me but if it works for you or the crowd - fine
heres my thing tho - most of the cd + Microwave dj's etc are so f*cking predictable with their sets and im like why ? you can download anything, mix anything - and all you can come up with is busta and beyonce? WTF? -
to me it seems a lot of the techmological guys play very similar shit and seem pretty uninspired - then on top of that i have to agree with what some people have said - endless beatmatching becomes so f??ng boring - yea it al blends but the crowd is falling asleep.
I play mostly funk, hip hop, 80's, & reggae and my taste is rootsy - when I dj i dont beatmix for shit I catch breaks (ok I beatmix a little here and there) I always bring a shitload of records and IMPROVISE - i dont know what record im playing next because i always try and read the vibe -
so even after all these years i cant mix for shit but get great crowd response and 9 times out of ten djs coming up asking whats this whats that ?? its vinyl motherfucker dig in the crates
I think it makes the sets unpredictable and more exiting - someitmes stresses me out looking for the next track but it works for me - wouldnt have it any other way
I think it makes the sets unpredictable and more exiting - someitmes stresses me out looking for the next track but it works for me - wouldnt have it any other way
since this thread has now snowballed into 10 other things it never was about... say 3 people have the same collection, but only one of them knows how to do all aspects of rocking a party...who do you think people want to hear play these records ?
imagine if you will...kenny dope, louie vega, j-rocc, dimitri from paris,dj scratch, cash money, jazzy jeff, danny krivit, terry hunter..etc spinning what they spin without programming a vibe or mixing/beatmatching/blending/ what ever you want to call it.
Comments
Seriously. Did someone take over his account AFTER the election cycle?
But that's the thing...if you're a skilled DJing, it's not like you have to concentrate hard on the mixing part of it; that comes naturally through practice and talent. Therefore, where the bulk of your mental energy is directed is at all the things you just noted.
The point repeated throughout this thread has been: in order to get to that point, where you don't have to think hard about mixing, you have to know how to mix.
If an automix function does that work for you, then you haven't mastered anything. That doesn't mean you can't program a killer playlist or read the crowd. And those latter skills are important too. But if you can't beat-match? That's like knowing how to do a reverse dunk off the backboard but can't dribble the ball.
It doesn't.
But this thread has been all about "respect of other DJs." For the non-DJ, this probably doesn't matter at all and that's fine. It doesn't have to. But this thread isn't about the use of technology from the end consumers p.o.v.
Word. And frankly, I've been finding that the easy reliance on the visual waveform is making my mixing worse. I have to really push myself NOT to look at it and instead, trust my ears.
Not trying to sound deragatory or slow the advance of technology or anything. People can and should do what they want and whatever they pick makes no difference to me. It is fast coming to the point, though, where the term "DJ" is going to mean 10 different things to as many people. The fastest way to settle this debate is toadopt an industry wide standard calling vinyl folks DJs and laptop folks something else, EJs or some shit.
I wonder where all this laptop DJing is going to lead to in the end. Probably to a huge inflation of bottom grade celebrities trying to make a buck. Once the recession really hits, there will be legions of have-been, former wanna-be stars from TV or music business dj-ing topless for $150 a night with their laptops on autopilot. Thank goodness, my NYE resolution was to stop going to nightclubs.
I'm old but I'm not prehistoric... it's more a question of aesthetics for me and I simply don't think that the music I love was intended to be altered by creative DJs nor does it necessarily demand any mixing.
There's nothing offensive or distasteful in that attitude. What you seem to be expressing is a primary interest in songs rather than - for lack of a less flowery term - "musical experience."
All my DJ mentors were primarily mixers who, regardless if they were spinning hip-hop, dancehall, whatever, more or less came out of the disco-mixing tradition which was always focused on using DJing to create a holistic, hours-long musical experience/journey. Individual songs still mattered - of course - but it was also about how to sequence those songs, how to use songs as building blocks, blah blah blah. Mixing isn't an absolute requirement for that but the seamless mix has become standard for this particular school of DJing.
That doesn't mean that form of DJing is the only "real" one. It's just one type of DJing but it's one that has had a deep impact on hip-hop and club DJing. To that extent, I'm not mad at newer technology if it facilitates that process.
I also disagree with the idea that "it's like playing a video game." It's simply a different kind of skill. I mean, musicians used to (probably still do) snub their nose at DJs; to them, using a turntable and a mixer probably looks like a video game compared to knowing how to play a saxophone or violin.
There are times when I appreciate hearing the entire song. Some of the best parts are in the last 30 seconds, but all art can be recontexualized. Im not sayin it should, but to think that any musical genre should be invulnerable to mixing sounds suspect to me.
U can play the music "u Love" your way. That's how u want to cook. Others might want to alter the presentation. If its done well - I say whatever - let it be.
Chopped And Screwed,Blended w/ Acapellas,Isolate the Breakdown, Overlap w/ another genre, whatever.
Sure, I do understand the thought behind mixing, I understand the appeal it has on people and of course I have great respect on the skills necessary to execute this. I simply wanted to state that I personally prefer to hear entire songs. What's "suspect" about that? For example Funk 45s I always prefer to hear from the first to the very last moment. I understand that some people enjoy cutting them up and I respect this as an artform and everything but I just don't enjoy hearing this as much as I enjoy hearing entire, isolated songs. I'm not saying one shouldn't do it, of course everybody should be free to do whatever they want with their records but why go to the other extreme and say records have to be mixed?
Nothin suspect about your choice in hearin the whole song, but to confine music to its "original" presentation, i find suspect.
Wouldnt that mean there would be no Covers?
Nowhere in my poast did i say records should be remixed.
I appreciate (like alot of dj's and people that are serious about music) hearing great music in its entirety. It doesn't always have to be mixed or blended but looking at an average club crowd, we are few and far between. You have to take the lowest common denominators into consideration. I have never dj'ed for a crowd of strictly dj's and I don't think I would want to.
I've seen some heavy dudes play some serious sh*t un-mixed and the crowd just wasn't with them and I don't think you can be mad at the crowd for that.
I definitely don't want to under-emphasize the importance of the music but anybody can stock a jukebox with great records. You gotta have more skills than that jukebox to be a dj, though.
no they cant. The music a DJ plays is the most important thing, nothing else trumps selection in DJing.
straight up !
while i may very well enjoy the reocords you own....just because you collect and own amazing records doesnt mean jack shit.
if you cant program a night, get the F*ck out the dj booth...stay home where you belong making podcasts for all to enjoy...sorry.
programming is another skill that takes a very long time to master, pitch, key, mood, etc. disco 12s" by design were MEANT to be mixed.
this thread really wasnt even about that all of that for me, it was about the nature of whats being lost here. the respect and art of it all. i fully embrace technology. im just not feeling being replaced by a robot.
also...o dub always comes with a tasteful way of putting it in perspective, while i sometimes am on some harsh F*ck off type vibe. props to you sir !
Like I said, music is the most important thing.
BUT, I do think anybody with time and energy can do some research and have a bunch of good music to play. How many people are there out there with ridiculous record collections and deep musical knowledge that don't get as many gigs, if any, as somebody that can rock a crowd?
Selection is the foundation but it doesn't stop there.
Why do you think it's up to you to say who's got a right to be in a DJ booth?
I've made a living from DJ-ing on 3 continents for some 15 years and never mixed, cut up or beatmatched anything.
And maybe you want to watch your tone of voice when talking to people who've run around African cities licensing songs for you and your friend's last record simply to help out and without any compansation while you were busy "digging" through a Queens doctor's record collections and air conditioned record stores in Manhattan.
Seriously... that's what I get for doing you a favor? You might have great skills on the turntables but you need to work on your social skills.
I played in a band of 8 folks, two rappers, one vocalist, and the rest heavy metal musicians. The heavy metal dudes thought I had captured an alien in my basement when I showed them my setup. They were f*ckin clueless, shit I know what your instruments are, you all have played live in front on many people, and you have never seen a mixer before??? Come on. DJing is an art form, lets no forget. In its purest and naturalist form, its a beautiful thing.
Yes! The '09 drunk posting fad continues!
Really though when it comes to being a DJ, as a personal preference, I'm with you on the integrity argument 90%. The missing 10% being I pitch 45s up all the time and I fade out early if the night is getting late and there are more things I want to squeeze in.
But as a frequent spectator in the DJ game, attending various nights and so forth, I can sympathize with those who don't really want to dance to the entire 11 minutes of the same afrobeat cut. Its sort of nerdy to force that on people.
The other thing is that most DJs on here are coming from a hip hop angle where the DJ is as important as what he/she is playing. You obviously are coming at it from a different place so it doesn't really make sense to be chastising hip-hop DJs for doing what hip hop DJs have always done. Its not really even part of your world.
That being said, I'd still attend a Franko night 8 days a week over any hair gel Billie Jean mash-up Serrato fest.
I wasn't chastising anybody, I think I made it clear that I have a great deal of respect for mixing skills. My point was only that for me, personally, I prefer to hear my music "unmixed" at home or at the club. As you said, a personal preference. Nothing more. I just don't agree with the arguement that nobody who plays records without mixing or beatmatching should be allowed inside a DJ booth. That would be chastising, or am I missing something?
I've seen plenty of DJs with skills and have enjoyed watching them work. I have various friends who are pretty damn good DJs. They all know how much I respect their skills and none of them ever had any problem with me just playing one record after another... I don't understand why some people expect everybody else to play by their rules? That's silly and smacks of insecurity.
Music that was recorded years before Hip Hop doesn't have to be played out according to the rules of Hip Hop, whatever those shall be. Disco 12s weren't designed so people could mix them, they were designed because the tracks were too long to be pressed on 7 inch records. David Mancuso didn't mix but hey, he probably wasn't a "real DJ"...
What a goddamn waste of time... I'm out of here.
Why do you think it's up to you to say who's got a right to be in a DJ booth?
I've made a living from DJ-ing on 3 continents for some 15 years and never mixed, cut up or beatmatched anything.
And maybe you want to watch your tone of voice when talking to people who've run around African cities licensing songs for you and your friend's last record simply to help out and without any compansation while you were busy "digging" through a Queens doctor's record collections and air conditioned record stores in Manhattan.
Seriously... that's what I get for doing you a favor? You might have great skills on the turntables but you need to work on your social skills.
whooooooaaaaa frank, relax.
1st off, why are you taking offense to what i've said.. do you feel this was directed at you ?
ive never even heard you play, ever! so how could it be toward you ? ive also heard that you play some incredible sets.
that was a general statement, towards all " djs" who really have no idea what they are doing, whether its house or reggae or just about any music...( and buy programs to this for them) i know this because ive heard it...they struggle and dont belong working in clubs. im sure you know many collectors that have some amazing records and i bet you know they have no idea how to run them within the club context....while at home or for personal enjoyment is another thing.
frank, if i were to have an issue with you i would have been much more direct. im that dude. im quite assertive and confrontational.
secondly, im not amir. you licensed songs for amir, ive never been to any doctors house either.
sure, i hit up big city and the rest of the shops while in nyc...so what.
the tone of your reply regarding your help for amir while he "digs" in doctors houses and air conditioned rooms.... in light of that...i dont think amir would appreciate your tone.
all in all, my post was not in any way, a bullet for you...i think you misunderstood my point.
no disrespect towards you.
btw amir does not mix.
wrong. the INVENTION of the 12" was an accident, because the studio had run out of the 45 acetates.not because the song was too long.
after realizing what you could do with the 12" format , groups and djs and producers would be hired to mix these sessions and made 12"s mixes specifically for the djs who MIX in the clubs...extended mix with breakdowns for you to mix in and out of with much more ease. not to mention certain 12"s where you can actually see the grooves split into sections for what they called "eye cueing".
now where on a whole nutha topic.
this isnt a battle about mancuso or djs that can mix/not mix from that era...if it were people like nicky siano were already doing what david couldnt do, mix. they are both highly respected and legendary icons in the world of disco.
while i feel my angle is deep rooted in hip hop style mixing, prior to "hip hop" i was listening to disco being mixed in clubs in 79'....which to me are the fundamentals of it all. riding mixes, 16/32 counts not slamming hip hop records that are 4 bar/ 8 bar intro 16 bar verse etc. same with funk 45s, they are 3 minute songs usually with no design for djs in clubs..the boom of discoteques hadnt even happened yet.
niche themed nights is what your talking about, im not really speaking on that. does keb darge play great sets...ive seen him kill it....not mixing. although i dont want to hear him play dance music in that context.
frank, i agree with you that a certain style night of music need not be mixed, but its a plus when the records you play dont own you.
and so continues another chapter in soulstrut history.
like yours.....my world dont stop......
perfectly said
as a total f*cking noob on these boards
Ive been record collecting since 91 and have done a lot of dj??ng in clubs and bars and shit -
I only ever use vinyl cause thats all i collect - it doesnt mean anything to me unless I have a vinyl copy - i f*cking hate cds etc. no beef towards anyone otherwise inclined its just my personal thing -
i have been noticing nowadays when dj'ing the turntables are being pushed to the background - everyone focuses on cd's now - which is wack to me but if it works for you or the crowd - fine
heres my thing tho - most of the cd + Microwave dj's etc are so f*cking predictable with their sets and im like why ?
you can download anything, mix anything - and all you can come up with is busta and beyonce? WTF? -
to me it seems a lot of the techmological guys play very similar shit and seem pretty uninspired - then on top of that i have to agree with what some people have said - endless beatmatching becomes so f??ng boring - yea it al blends but the crowd is falling asleep.
I play mostly funk, hip hop, 80's, & reggae and my taste is rootsy - when I dj i dont beatmix for shit I catch breaks (ok I beatmix a little here and there)
I always bring a shitload of records and IMPROVISE - i dont know what record im playing next because i always try and read the vibe -
so even after all these years i cant mix for shit but get great crowd response and 9 times out of ten djs coming up asking whats this whats that ?? its vinyl motherfucker dig in the crates
I think it makes the sets unpredictable and more exiting - someitmes stresses me out looking for the next track but it works for me - wouldnt have it any other way
sorry if this is a bit wordy - new here
1
heart of the game
say 3 people have the same collection, but only one of them knows how to do all aspects of rocking a party...who do you think people want to hear play these records ?
imagine if you will...kenny dope, louie vega, j-rocc, dimitri from paris,dj scratch, cash money, jazzy jeff, danny krivit, terry hunter..etc spinning what they spin without programming a vibe or mixing/beatmatching/blending/ what ever you want to call it.
fact is, things would just not be the same.