Sorry folks, I have a hard time feeling sorry for a terrorist who caught one. Honestly, fuck him. The only thing the cops should have done differently is kick him in the nads first and then shoot him. The life of this type of person means jack shit to me. If you think its cute to try and destroy average folks riding the subway with a goddam bomb... well.... fuck him.
The odd thing is that he was an asian dude...... I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.... Each of the articles make sure to point it out, but then don't go any further with it. Interesting.
I think when they say "Asian" they mean pakistani or indonesian or even afghanistan...
it is not for anyone to bring the middle east down to anything. they don't need anyone to run shit for them or tell them what to do. this is partly what started this whole mess in the first place.
oh cosign no doubt.
we need to work out this crazy oil dependency with some renewable resources domestically & let the shieks carry on with their stonings & beheadings in peace...
good idea. and the US could be left in peace to continue building factory jails and appointing folks to government who agree with killing abortion doctors, segregation and lynchings.
we can all get along if we're left to our own filth.
what you speak is a portion of the truth, but I still find it hard to take Canadian handwringing anti-American-ism seriously...
it's kinda like, "really? when did y'all ever do anything?"
"Canada: we mind our own business"
---
have you heard of WW2? I suggest you read up on a little thing called Normandy, Dieppe and speak to a few Europeans on whether or not Canada did anything.
If you want to talk about more recent events and you think that dropping bombs on people as opposed to peace-keeping,going over to provide medical aid and help them rebuild is not doing anything, then I would just be wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise. Look beyond the enemy of the month and see just how much Canada has done around the world. Just because we don't agree with you and think we should fix things at home before we tell others how to run their shit - it doesn't mean we don't "do" anything. It's not perfect over here, but don't try to reduce it down to some editorial cartoon.
Cmon man, what are you saying?
my concern is a little more than hand-wringing and if you read anything that I've written, I think it is pretty clear that I hold no one more responsible, I've been saying the whole time that everyone is party.
The odd thing is that he was an asian dude...... I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.... Each of the articles make sure to point it out, but then don't go any further with it. Interesting.
From my experience, when the British refer to Asian, they're speakin' of people w/ origins in the Indian subcontinent (includin' Pakistan + Bangladesh) - i.e. what folks in North America might call (in a politically correct environment) South Asian; although India itself has a 10 % Muslim population (w/ a sizeable number in West Bengal), the bulk of people that practise the Islamic faith in the UK hail from a Pakistani background - residual legacy of colonialism...
Both of your bickering is tainting a thread about concerns for brethren in the UK, please stop. Canada participates and keeps it low pro. America has work to do, but is trying to get it's head straight person to person, perhaps the ground up. Peace T.N.
Sorry folks, I have a hard time feeling sorry for a terrorist who caught one. Honestly, fuck him. The only thing the cops should have done differently is kick him in the nads first and then shoot him. The life of this type of person means jack shit to me. If you think its cute to try and destroy average folks riding the subway with a goddam bomb... well.... fuck him.
The odd thing is that he was an asian dude...... I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.... Each of the articles make sure to point it out, but then don't go any further with it. Interesting.
Asian in the UK tends to mean Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi etc...
Incidentally, I'm yet to hear confirmation from Police that the suspect is;
1) A terrorist 2) Of "Asian" ethnicity*
*The only mention of the word "Asian" has come from eyewitnesses on the tube. As an arab who would regularly get called a "paki" by folk in the UK, I'm gonna wait til the details are confirmed by the police.
India has 150 million, and no Islamic radicalism bombing incidents to report. Plenty of Paki-India beef though. Muslim dudes are fully integrated into fabric of Indian society, Muslims in UK to my understanding are not as integrated.
India has 150 million, and no Islamic radicalism bombing incidents to report. Plenty of Paki-India beef though. Muslim dudes are fully integrated into fabric of Indian society, Muslims in UK to my understanding are not as integrated.
We were talking about the idea of integration last night. Folks are surprised that the bombings came from ???inside??? and these guys were more or less ???integrated??? into British society and not disenfranchised, etc. But I think first generation young people are in a strange place. Their parents are from a different culture, and so how much they relate to their reality is limited (and vice versa), they themselves are born into a country they may feel does not accept them or that they totally belong to???and so where does that leave them? I can???t speak to this with too much knowledge, but have had it explained to me in these (rather simple terms) by people from France and the UK.
Lots of groups, religious and otherwise, prey on this feeling of not-belonging by providing a safe-haven, you-are-one-of-us to use people for their own means.
India has 150 million, and no Islamic radicalism bombing incidents to report. Plenty of Paki-India beef though. Muslim dudes are fully integrated into fabric of Indian society, Muslims in UK to my understanding are not as integrated.
Concur entirely - when I travelled through India and encountered Muslims, few if any voiced any dissension about bein' in a predominantly Hindu society: if given the choice b/w Pakistan and India, all expressed a preference for India... Didn't go up to Kashmir though - maybe next time...
Hyderabad was the most Islamic place I found durin' the 7 weeks in the Subcontinent - saw men headin' for mornin' prayer @ 5 when I checked into the city from the train station and the central core was full of women attired in the hijab...
Sorry folks, I have a hard time feeling sorry for a terrorist who caught one. Honestly, fuck him. The only thing the cops should have done differently is kick him in the nads first and then shoot him. The life of this type of person means jack shit to me. If you think its cute to try and destroy average folks riding the subway with a goddam bomb... well.... fuck him.
The odd thing is that he was an asian dude...... I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.... Each of the articles make sure to point it out, but then don't go any further with it. Interesting.
I think when they say "Asian" they mean pakistani or indonesian or even afghanistan...
what this appears to be doing in a strange way in the uk as far as i can tell, is that this situation is making people think about race, and making people more aware that we really are all living in the same world and that we want more peace in the uk for all people whoever and wherever they are from or descended from. the ultra right wing are trying to stir up racial hatred and so far it is failing (obviously there are the usual complete losers that fall for that shit but that will never change) but people are pretty cool about it all right now. I saw people getting angry with each other all the time day in day out on the tube, now there is a quiet respect for each other, and in a perverse way it may improve race relations. that's the way it seems anyway, and what i'm hoping.
Sorry folks, I have a hard time feeling sorry for a terrorist who caught one. Honestly, fuck him. The only thing the cops should have done differently is kick him in the nads first and then shoot him. The life of this type of person means jack shit to me. If you think its cute to try and destroy average folks riding the subway with a goddam bomb... well.... fuck him.
The odd thing is that he was an asian dude...... I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.... Each of the articles make sure to point it out, but then don't go any further with it. Interesting.
Asian in the UK tends to mean Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi etc...
Incidentally, I'm yet to hear confirmation from Police that the suspect is;
1) A terrorist 2) Of "Asian" ethnicity*
*The only mention of the word "Asian" has come from eyewitnesses on the tube. As an arab who would regularly get called a "paki" by folk in the UK, I'm gonna wait til the details are confirmed by the police.
I think "terrorist" comes from the fact that he was being watched because of yesterdays attacks and they made a jump to get him when he went for the tube. Either thinking he was trying to get away or maybe another attempt of another bombing.
I'm wondering... Is he one of the four they posted pics of today as being a suspect for yesterday?
India has 150 million, and no Islamic radicalism bombing incidents to report. Plenty of Paki-India beef though. Muslim dudes are fully integrated into fabric of Indian society, Muslims in UK to my understanding are not as integrated.
FYI "Paki" to a Pakistani in the UK is just about equivalent to "nigger" to an African American here. I learned that accidentally when I was there...thank goodness it was with the girl I was DJing for and she corrected me before I made an ass of myself in public.
India has 150 million, and no Islamic radicalism bombing incidents to report. Plenty of Paki-India beef though. Muslim dudes are fully integrated into fabric of Indian society, Muslims in UK to my understanding are not as integrated.
We were talking about the idea of integration last night. Folks are surprised that the bombings came from ???inside??? and these guys were more or less ???integrated??? into British society and not disenfranchised, etc. But I think first generation young people are in a strange place. Their parents are from a different culture, and so how much they relate to their reality is limited (and vice versa), they themselves are born into a country they may feel does not accept them or that they totally belong to???and so where does that leave them? I can???t speak to this with too much knowledge, but have had it explained to me in these (rather simple terms) by people from France and the UK.
Lots of groups, religious and otherwise, prey on this feeling of not-belonging by providing a safe-haven, you-are-one-of-us to use people for their own means.
The Muslim (primarily North African/Le magreb) presence in France is fairly substantial - 5 million out of a total population of 60 - many of the inhabitants of the concrete block apartment towers (les banlieues) are comprised of people w/ a heritage in these lands (as well as West Africa - Senegal: which itself is Islamic)... The conundrum facin' France is how to integrate this population into its fabric of egalite, fraternite et liberte - previous waves of immigrants to France (from places such as Portugal and Italy - e.g. Jean-Paul BELMONDO) have pretty much embraced a wholesale French identity - it may not prove to be as easy w/ this new immigrant class... And the disenfranchisement cited is notable in the 1st generation ('La haine' bein' a dramatization of this dislocation) - remains to be seen if it persists in subsequent generations...
Marseilles ('the gateway to North Africa' as an old stylized postcard indicated) in the South boasts a large North African populace (close to or @ 50 %) - hotel I stayed @ in that city was even called 'Le sphinx'...
Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims in the world.
Quite true - and w/ a population close to 200 million, no other country is even close...
well, it's a legal requirement to be a muslim in Indonesia so not hard to get those figures. relgious freedom there ain't.
Speakers Corner still has its fair share of islamic radicals but as you imply not so much as before - I think there'sa ready made audience who will attend meetings on those themes so less of a need to harangue the general public, maybe. Still lots of anti-war speakers down there and the usual shabby array of random eccentrics and evangelists of all persuasions.
i live in the uk and just got back from London, i don't contribute much and only joined recently and enjoy your posts very much. i don't want to get off on a bad foot with any you people but I would like to say... these guys are ready to die for their cause. they are on cctv and are all over the media. they are either going to be caught or killed. so they have likely chosen to take their original route and die for their cause. the guy was chased into the station by armed police, vaulted the barrier and ran onto the train where he was shot in the upper part of his body. this was to stop him trying to detonate what looked like a bomb strapped round his waist with wires hanging out. if he was allowed a few more seconds he could have blown himself, the train, the passengers and the cops chasing him into the next life. what would you do? moralising and conspiracy theories are all very well, but when your life goes before your eyes and you are trained to deal with these situations you make a judgement of risk and you do not take chances. all the guy had to do was stop and put his arms up, he was surrounded by armed police, he had no intention of doing that, he was ready to die and take everyone with him. the causes behind this situation are another bigger argument and we all know some of the reasons why this is happening, and that needs to be addressed big time, but this was a split second life or death scenario on the london underground. you fuck about on the tube at this time, you are in deep deep shit, everyone knows that, there are at least 3 more human bombs on the loose in London right now and they could strike anywhere. if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
what i am saying is that no one is more right, no lives are worth more than others and everyone has contributed to this fucking mess. are they going to contribute to fixing it, too? or just keep blowing up buses and invading countries they have no business being in? i'll tell you - after this morning, i don't feel hopeful, i feel downright depressed.
My thoughts are going out to the our UK family. It is shocking to hear the UK police shooting someone. Here in Portland our police routinly shoot people for less, but I never heard of it happening in the UK. I sure hope they got their man, and not some punk kid who thought he was being chased for shoplifting.
Just to make things more depressing. I have been thinking how my country has decided they want a far right wing House Of Represenatives a far right wing Senate and a far right wing President. It has taken many years for them to reach their goal. Two of the religious rights goals are now being met. This fall the Supreme Court will begin removing a womans right to privacy and a safe and legal abortions will be a thing of the past. [This will not reduce the numbers of abortions, just make them more dangours.] Already on going is a Holy War that these people hope will bring about the Last Days and the second coming.
Canada, it is time to invade the States and end this madness.
My thoughts are going out to the our UK family. It is shocking to hear the UK police shooting someone. Here in Portland our police routinly shoot people for less, but I never heard of it happening in the UK. I sure hope they got their man, and not some punk kid who thought he was being chased for shoplifting.
Just to make things more depressing. I have been thinking how my country has decided they want a far right wing House Of Represenatives a far right wing Senate and a far right wing President. It has taken many years for them to reach their goal. Two of the religious rights goals are now being met. This fall the Supreme Court will begin removing a womans right to privacy and a safe and legal abortions will be a thing of the past. [This will not reduce the numbers of abortions, just make them more dangours.] Already on going is a Holy War that these people hope will bring about the Last Days and the second coming.
Canada, it is time to invade the States and end this madness.
i live in the uk and just got back from London, i don't contribute much and only joined recently and enjoy your posts very much. i don't want to get off on a bad foot with any you people but I would like to say... these guys are ready to die for their cause. they are on cctv and are all over the media. they are either going to be caught or killed. so they have likely chosen to take their original route and die for their cause. the guy was chased into the station by armed police, vaulted the barrier and ran onto the train where he was shot in the upper part of his body. this was to stop him trying to detonate what looked like a bomb strapped round his waist with wires hanging out. if he was allowed a few more seconds he could have blown himself, the train, the passengers and the cops chasing him into the next life. what would you do? moralising and conspiracy theories are all very well, but when your life goes before your eyes and you are trained to deal with these situations you make a judgement of risk and you do not take chances. all the guy had to do was stop and put his arms up, he was surrounded by armed police, he had no intention of doing that, he was ready to die and take everyone with him. the causes behind this situation are another bigger argument and we all know some of the reasons why this is happening, and that needs to be addressed big time, but this was a split second life or death scenario on the london underground. you fuck about on the tube at this time, you are in deep deep shit, everyone knows that, there are at least 3 more human bombs on the loose in London right now and they could strike anywhere. if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
My thoughts are going out to the our UK family. It is shocking to hear the UK police shooting someone. Here in Portland our police routinly shoot people for less, but I never heard of it happening in the UK. I sure hope they got their man, and not some punk kid who thought he was being chased for shoplifting.
Just to make things more depressing. I have been thinking how my country has decided they want a far right wing House Of Represenatives a far right wing Senate and a far right wing President. It has taken many years for them to reach their goal. Two of the religious rights goals are now being met. This fall the Supreme Court will begin removing a womans right to privacy and a safe and legal abortions will be a thing of the past. [This will not reduce the numbers of abortions, just make them more dangours.] Already on going is a Holy War that these people hope will bring about the Last Days and the second coming.
Canada, it is time to invade the States and end this madness.
Dan
Are you blaming the current war on America?
Aboslutly! As you know very very well the States were never attaked by Iraq.
As you know the evidence for war with Iraq was manufactured.
As you know long before 9/11 Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfawitz were looking for any reason to go to war with Iraq.
Today, as you know, Iraq has replaced Afganistan as terrorist training camp. Bush has allowed the AQ elite to continue to operate out of the mountains of central Asia. Meanwhile, jihadist from around the world go to Iraq to learn urban terrorist warfare and bring it back to their homes. When Bush first came out of hiding after 9/11 one of the first things he said was we were on a Crusade.
I apoligise to our UK friends for getting all political up in here. We are standing by you. I respect your reaction of actually trying to track down the people who are attaking you. Systematicly going after their foot soldiers, recruiters, organizers and funders. I wish my country had done the same.
India has 150 million, and no Islamic radicalism bombing incidents to report. Plenty of Paki-India beef though. Muslim dudes are fully integrated into fabric of Indian society, Muslims in UK to my understanding are not as integrated.
FYI "Paki" to a Pakistani in the UK is just about equivalent to "nigger" to an African American here. I learned that accidentally when I was there...thank goodness it was with the girl I was DJing for and she corrected me before I made an ass of myself in public.
You're right "Paki" is generally a slur. But I think it's use here was more like the term "Nigga" if you catch my drift.
India has 150 million, and no Islamic radicalism bombing incidents to report. Plenty of Paki-India beef though. Muslim dudes are fully integrated into fabric of Indian society, Muslims in UK to my understanding are not as integrated.
FYI "Paki" to a Pakistani in the UK is just about equivalent to "nigger" to an African American here. I learned that accidentally when I was there...thank goodness it was with the girl I was DJing for and she corrected me before I made an ass of myself in public.
You're right "Paki" is generally a slur. But I think it's use here was more like the term "Nigga" if you catch my drift.
oh, nah, I'm not sayin anyone was using it in a bad way...just throwin out an fyi so noone makes a social faux pas.
man...all i can say is that is must phucking suck to be brown in the uk right now...it was really phucking terrible bad even before this terrorist sheit was involved, damn...
Comments
I think when they say "Asian" they mean pakistani or indonesian or even afghanistan...
have you heard of WW2? I suggest you read up on a little thing called Normandy, Dieppe and speak to a few Europeans on whether or not Canada did anything.
If you want to talk about more recent events and you think that dropping bombs on people as opposed to peace-keeping,going over to provide medical aid and help them rebuild is not doing anything, then I would just be wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise. Look beyond the enemy of the month and see just how much Canada has done around the world. Just because we don't agree with you and think we should fix things at home before we tell others how to run their shit - it doesn't mean we don't "do" anything. It's not perfect over here, but don't try to reduce it down to some editorial cartoon.
Cmon man, what are you saying?
my concern is a little more than hand-wringing and if you read anything that I've written, I think it is pretty clear that I hold no one more responsible, I've been saying the whole time that everyone is party.
From my experience, when the British refer to Asian, they're speakin' of people w/ origins in the Indian subcontinent (includin' Pakistan + Bangladesh) - i.e. what folks in North America might call (in a politically correct environment) South Asian; although India itself has a 10 % Muslim population (w/ a sizeable number in West Bengal), the bulk of people that practise the Islamic faith in the UK hail from a Pakistani background - residual legacy of colonialism...
Peace
T.N.
Quite true - and w/ a population close to 200 million, no other country is even close...
Asian in the UK tends to mean Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi etc...
Incidentally, I'm yet to hear confirmation from Police that the suspect is;
1) A terrorist
2) Of "Asian" ethnicity*
*The only mention of the word "Asian" has come from eyewitnesses on the tube. As an arab who would regularly get called a "paki" by folk in the UK, I'm gonna wait til the details are confirmed by the police.
We were talking about the idea of integration last night. Folks are surprised that the bombings came from ???inside??? and these guys were more or less ???integrated??? into British society and not disenfranchised, etc. But I think first generation young people are in a strange place. Their parents are from a different culture, and so how much they relate to their reality is limited (and vice versa), they themselves are born into a country they may feel does not accept them or that they totally belong to???and so where does that leave them? I can???t speak to this with too much knowledge, but have had it explained to me in these (rather simple terms) by people from France and the UK.
Lots of groups, religious and otherwise, prey on this feeling of not-belonging by providing a safe-haven, you-are-one-of-us to use people for their own means.
Concur entirely - when I travelled through India and encountered Muslims, few if any voiced any dissension about bein' in a predominantly Hindu society: if given the choice b/w Pakistan and India, all expressed a preference for India... Didn't go up to Kashmir though - maybe next time...
Hyderabad was the most Islamic place I found durin' the 7 weeks in the Subcontinent - saw men headin' for mornin' prayer @ 5 when I checked into the city from the train station and the central core was full of women attired in the hijab...
what this appears to be doing in a strange way in the uk as far as i can tell, is that this situation is making people think about race, and making people more aware that we really are all living in the same world and that we want more peace in the uk for all people whoever and wherever they are from or descended from. the ultra right wing are trying to stir up racial hatred and so far it is failing (obviously there are the usual complete losers that fall for that shit but that will never change) but people are pretty cool about it all right now. I saw people getting angry with each other all the time day in day out on the tube, now there is a quiet respect for each other, and in a perverse way it may improve race relations. that's the way it seems anyway, and what i'm hoping.
I think "terrorist" comes from the fact that he was being watched because of yesterdays attacks and they made a jump to get him when he went for the tube. Either thinking he was trying to get away or maybe another attempt of another bombing.
I'm wondering... Is he one of the four they posted pics of today as being a suspect for yesterday?
FYI "Paki" to a Pakistani in the UK is just about equivalent to "nigger" to an African American here. I learned that accidentally when I was there...thank goodness it was with the girl I was DJing for and she corrected me before I made an ass of myself in public.
The Muslim (primarily North African/Le magreb) presence in France is fairly substantial - 5 million out of a total population of 60 - many of the inhabitants of the concrete block apartment towers (les banlieues) are comprised of people w/ a heritage in these lands (as well as West Africa - Senegal: which itself is Islamic)... The conundrum facin' France is how to integrate this population into its fabric of egalite, fraternite et liberte - previous waves of immigrants to France (from places such as Portugal and Italy - e.g. Jean-Paul BELMONDO) have pretty much embraced a wholesale French identity - it may not prove to be as easy w/ this new immigrant class... And the disenfranchisement cited is notable in the 1st generation ('La haine' bein' a dramatization of this dislocation) - remains to be seen if it persists in subsequent generations...
Marseilles ('the gateway to North Africa' as an old stylized postcard indicated) in the South boasts a large North African populace (close to or @ 50 %) - hotel I stayed @ in that city was even called 'Le sphinx'...
Can any Londoner on the board tell me what Speakers corner is like now?
When I use to live or visit (96-00) London I always went down there to watch the debates.
The amount of radical speaking from militant Islamists was pretty crazy.
Is there any of this going on now?
well, it's a legal requirement to be a muslim in Indonesia so not hard to get those figures. relgious freedom there ain't.
Speakers Corner still has its fair share of islamic radicals but as you imply not so much as before - I think there'sa ready made audience who will attend meetings on those themes so less of a need to harangue the general public, maybe. Still lots of anti-war speakers down there and the usual shabby array of random eccentrics and evangelists of all persuasions.
Is that true? Not to be antagonistic, but you got a source?
I don't imagine these people to be practicin' in private...
Nor the Chinese populace that's subscribin' to a derivation of some almagamated Confucianism/Taoism...
Just to make things more depressing. I have been thinking how my country has decided they want a far right wing House Of Represenatives a far right wing Senate and a far right wing President. It has taken many years for them to reach their goal. Two of the religious rights goals are now being met. This fall the Supreme Court will begin removing a womans right to privacy and a safe and legal abortions will be a thing of the past. [This will not reduce the numbers of abortions, just make them more dangours.] Already on going is a Holy War that these people hope will bring about the Last Days and the second coming.
Canada, it is time to invade the States and end this madness.
Dan
Are you blaming the current war on America?
Well said.
Aboslutly! As you know very very well the States were never attaked by Iraq.
As you know the evidence for war with Iraq was manufactured.
As you know long before 9/11 Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfawitz were looking for any reason to go to war with Iraq.
Today, as you know, Iraq has replaced Afganistan as terrorist training camp. Bush has allowed the AQ elite to continue to operate out of the mountains of central Asia. Meanwhile, jihadist from around the world go to Iraq to learn urban terrorist warfare and bring it back to their homes. When Bush first came out of hiding after 9/11 one of the first things he said was we were on a Crusade.
I apoligise to our UK friends for getting all political up in here. We are standing by you. I respect your reaction of actually trying to track down the people who are attaking you. Systematicly going after their foot soldiers, recruiters, organizers and funders. I wish my country had done the same.
Dan
The one with the red/blue flag bandana, stoner
I never saw this movie.
You're right "Paki" is generally a slur. But I think it's use here was more like the term "Nigga" if you catch my drift.
oh, nah, I'm not sayin anyone was using it in a bad way...just throwin out an fyi so noone makes a social faux pas.