a total 'us vs them' war between the muslim world & the christian world is probably what bin laden is looking for.
it's also what the States are looking for and what Britain has agreed to. as far as policy-makers and leaders are concerned - everyone's hands are dirty.
I think the invasion & occupation of Iraq is exactly what bin laden would have wanted - that has done more to alienate the islamic world from 'the west' than anything in years.
more than decades of colonialism, occupation and foreign interference you mean?
every leader is willing to sacrifice citizens for their cause.
what i am saying is that no one is more right, no lives are worth more than others and everyone has contributed to this fucking mess. are they going to contribute to fixing it, too? or just keep blowing up buses and invading countries they have no business being in? i'll tell you - after this morning, i don't feel hopeful, i feel downright depressed.
People have been butchering & exploiting each other for eons - I wouldn't bet on it changing, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try I suppose.
Killing can really only be justified from a selfish perpective - 'him or me', in a universal sense all lives have equal value, but I won't pretend that I don't think my own life is worth alot more & by extension & proximity the lives of my family, friends, fellow citizens etc.
not to get all 'vitamin' in here, but I really think there is a war going on - these dudes tried to kill me by dropping a building on me!
They had been trailing him all day. He's believed to be one of the guys from yesterday. It turns out that he didn't have a bomb.
They shouldn't have shot the guy at all.
But then, with him wearing a heavy coat in the summer and evading the law who knows...
ok now THAT sucks...my statement above still stands though...I would HATE to be the dude with his gun drawn and you have about .5 seconds to make that decision. I would do it regardless, and the 5 shots probably would have come out of my gun as well...nerves are a motherfucker.
Please don't talk shit about a situation until you know what went down or you've actually been in that situation yourself. it's REALLY easy to judge from your computer. you say you'd like to see the hard facts...so would I, but London cops NEVER bring out guns so I would be willing to bet it was warranted.
Also, I'm not gonna shed one tear for a suicide bomber...dude got what he fuckin wanted anyways...dead.
right now all we know is that he was wearing a jacket they thought was too bulky for the summer and that he "was challenged" (??). let's wait and see if he was actually what he was thought to be. i know this sounds sick, but i hope he was a bomber** and not some dude who had to wear all his belongings like homeless folks have to do or that he wasn't holding a big teddy bear under there as a surprise for someone. he's already been judged and executed, i know, but let's just wait for confirmation before writing off a life.
**even though once detained, there would be more to gain by having him alive than dead.
I want to see what evidence the police had. Is it posible that the guy was just very scared & very stupid so ran & had no bomb? the po didn't wait to find out they exterminated him. They apparently shot him because he wouldn't stop, ok but how much more stopped than restrained on the floor in an enclosed carriage can you get? It's a tough call as he coulda killed all those people but so far there has been insufficiant proof that he was about to detonate anything .
From what I understand suspected suicide bombers are shot in the head to give them less time to trigger any device they may carry. Shooting once or five times - in that situation the officer would just be ensuring they're dead and cannot detonate a bomb whilst wounded. Standard training for Israeli police and soldiers and I'm sure those would be the guidelines here.
The guy not only ignored police he actually ran away after being challenged by armed officers. Not the action of a fare dodger. Reports are now suggesting that he was already being followed by plains clothes officers.
Fucked up, for sure, but I'm not sure how else police could have acted given the context of the last two weeks.
Please don't talk shit about a situation until you know what went down or you've actually been in that situation yourself. it's REALLY easy to judge from your computer. you say you'd like to see the hard facts...so would I, but London cops NEVER bring out guns so I would be willing to bet it was warranted.
Also, I'm not gonna shed one tear for a suicide bomber...dude got what he fuckin wanted anyways...dead.
right now all we know is that he was wearing a jacket they thought was too bulky for the summer and that he "was challenged" (??). let's wait and see if he was actually what he was thought to be. i know this sounds sick, but i hope he was a bomber** and not some dude who had to wear all his belongings like homeless folks have to do or that he wasn't holding a big teddy bear under there as a surprise for someone. he's already been judged and executed, i know, but let's just wait for confirmation before writing off a life.
**even though once detained, there would be more to gain by having him alive than dead.
that's true, and like I said...I'd hate to be the cop in that situation.
And if you were a cop, then I'm sure everybody would love to know your reasoning for such an action, you being a professional and all.
Police are believed to be under orders to shoot to kill if they believe someone is about to detonate a bomb.
Agreed, but if you shoot to kill a potential suicide bomber you do it carefully[/b] and with as few shots as possible[/b]. And at very close range, that rarely means 5. If it does, then generally speaking you shouldn't using a firearm, especially not on a train carriage carrying passengers.
I would REALLY love to see how you would handle things if you had a gun in your hand and it was your sworn duty to protect the hundreds of innocent people around you and you had been briefed on how these guys might work and that there may be suicide bombers attacking and you HAVE to shoot to kill otherwise you and everyone around you is DEAD. And then you actually run into one, tackle him and his arm gets free or something...yeah, I'm REAL sure you'd worry about his life first.
Please don't talk shit about a situation until you know what went down or you've actually been in that situation yourself. it's REALLY easy to judge from your computer. you say you'd like to see the hard facts...so would I, but London cops NEVER bring out guns so I would be willing to bet it was warranted.
Also, I'm not gonna shed one tear for a suicide bomber...dude got what he fuckin wanted anyways...dead.
The assumption here is that your average Joe becomes a Special (Armed) Officer overnight. As to how would I handle things? Fuck knows... but then I wouldn't be in that situation cos I'm not[/b] a Special Officer and have not[/b] had the years of training.
Also, your last comment seems to have the suspect's guilt pretty much decided.
Perversly, I hope that he is guilty of something pretty serious, otherwise this could be one almighty fuck up.
not to get all 'vitamin' in here, but I really think there is a war going on - these dudes tried to kill me by dropping a building on me!
this is futile, but i'll say it anyway, and your dudes have been trying to kill them by dropping bombs on them before those buildings fell.
i think you and i basically agree with each other, i'm more interested in common points this morning, not opposing ones, you know?
"my dudes"?!? ( very controversial...)
you an american? "not in my name" etc.
I think the best way to destroy jihadism is to bring the middle east down to our level with coca cola, internet porn & scarlett johansson.
whether that is a postive thing is another arguement.
---
i said "your dudes" to differentiate from the dudes that dropped a building on you.
i am not american.
it is not for anyone to bring the middle east down to anything. they don't need anyone to run shit for them or tell them what to do. this is partly what started this whole mess in the first place.
i live in the uk and just got back from London, i don't contribute much and only joined recently and enjoy your posts very much. i don't want to get off on a bad foot with any you people but I would like to say... these guys are ready to die for their cause. they are on cctv and are all over the media. they are either going to be caught or killed. so they have likely chosen to take their original route and die for their cause. the guy was chased into the station by armed police, vaulted the barrier and ran onto the train where he was shot in the upper part of his body. this was to stop him trying to detonate what looked like a bomb strapped round his waist with wires hanging out. if he was allowed a few more seconds he could have blown himself, the train, the passengers and the cops chasing him into the next life. what would you do? moralising and conspiracy theories are all very well, but when your life goes before your eyes and you are trained to deal with these situations you make a judgement of risk and you do not take chances. all the guy had to do was stop and put his arms up, he was surrounded by armed police, he had no intention of doing that, he was ready to die and take everyone with him. the causes behind this situation are another bigger argument and we all know some of the reasons why this is happening, and that needs to be addressed big time, but this was a split second life or death scenario on the london underground. you fuck about on the tube at this time, you are in deep deep shit, everyone knows that, there are at least 3 more human bombs on the loose in London right now and they could strike anywhere. if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
it is not for anyone to bring the middle east down to anything. they don't need anyone to run shit for them or tell them what to do. this is partly what started this whole mess in the first place.
I cannot in any way find anything agreeable in what these people are doing in the name of Islam, but by the same token, I cannot ignore that fact that there are some very very wrong and unjust things going on in this world under the banner of "Good", and it is these situations that provides the fuel that powers the radicalizing forces on all sides of this conflict.
The more people of who are ignorant of this fact, the more dire the situation, in my opinion anyway.
She lives in America. The portion of North America above the 49th parallel.
Of America, K..
Canamerica?
It's all the same now anyways.. We are all connected by underground tunnels.
Cheap cigarettes & Booze in, BC weed out...
yes. ok. i am same sex marriage/smoke pot in the streets/we club baby seals american, not blue hawaiian punch/we gave ellen degeneres a show/CBGB'S american.
i live in the uk and just got back from London, i don't contribute much and only joined recently and enjoy your posts very much. i don't want to get off on a bad foot with any you people but I would like to say... these guys are ready to die for their cause. they are on cctv and are all over the media. they are either going to be caught or killed. so they have likely chosen to take their original route and die for their cause. the guy was chased into the station by armed police, vaulted the barrier and ran onto the train where he was shot in the upper part of his body. this was to stop him trying to detonate what looked like a bomb strapped round his waist with wires hanging out. if he was allowed a few more seconds he could have blown himself, the train, the passengers and the cops chasing him into the next life. what would you do? moralising and conspiracy theories are all very well, but when your life goes before your eyes and you are trained to deal with these situations you make a judgement of risk and you do not take chances. all the guy had to do was stop and put his arms up, he was surrounded by armed police, he had no intention of doing that, he was ready to die and take everyone with him. the causes behind this situation are another bigger argument and we all know some of the reasons why this is happening, and that needs to be addressed big time, but this was a split second life or death scenario on the london underground. you fuck about on the tube at this time, you are in deep deep shit, everyone knows that, there are at least 3 more human bombs on the loose in London right now and they could strike anywhere. if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
i live in the uk and just got back from London, i don't contribute much and only joined recently and enjoy your posts very much. i don't want to get off on a bad foot with any you people but I would like to say... these guys are ready to die for their cause. they are on cctv and are all over the media. they are either going to be caught or killed. so they have likely chosen to take their original route and die for their cause. the guy was chased into the station by armed police, vaulted the barrier and ran onto the train where he was shot in the upper part of his body. this was to stop him trying to detonate what looked like a bomb strapped round his waist with wires hanging out. if he was allowed a few more seconds he could have blown himself, the train, the passengers and the cops chasing him into the next life. what would you do? moralising and conspiracy theories are all very well, but when your life goes before your eyes and you are trained to deal with these situations you make a judgement of risk and you do not take chances. all the guy had to do was stop and put his arms up, he was surrounded by armed police, he had no intention of doing that, he was ready to die and take everyone with him. the causes behind this situation are another bigger argument and we all know some of the reasons why this is happening, and that needs to be addressed big time, but this was a split second life or death scenario on the london underground. you fuck about on the tube at this time, you are in deep deep shit, everyone knows that, there are at least 3 more human bombs on the loose in London right now and they could strike anywhere. if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
next post will be music related! ;-)
best wishes -P
A perfect summary. Maybe with all the "Londoners will not be bowed" headlines people around the world think otherwise but here in London we're all on high alert. You see a bag left unattended, you do not make the assumption that someone's just mislaid it. People do not fuck around in London when it comes to security at the moment - if a policeman says stop, you'd better be prepared for consequences if you choose to ignore them.
it is not for anyone to bring the middle east down to anything. they don't need anyone to run shit for them or tell them what to do. this is partly what started this whole mess in the first place.
oh cosign no doubt.
we need to work out this crazy oil dependency with some renewable resources domestically & let the shieks carry on with their stonings & beheadings in peace...
I'll resist taking a predictable anti-canuck potshot.
... if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
yes, we live in a free society - hurray for the police state!
it is not for anyone to bring the middle east down to anything. they don't need anyone to run shit for them or tell them what to do. this is partly what started this whole mess in the first place.
oh cosign no doubt.
we need to work out this crazy oil dependency with some renewable resources domestically & let the shieks carry on with their stonings & beheadings in peace...
good idea. and the US could be left in peace to continue building factory jails and appointing folks to government who agree with killing abortion doctors, segregation and lynchings.
we can all get along if we're left to our own filth.
... if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
yes, we live in a free society - hurray for the police state!
i am missing your point? everyone in London knows there are human bombs on the loose waiting to kill as many people as they can take down with them, and the people doing the shouting are friends of the person because you cannot leave a bag unattended anywhere in London as it could be a bomb. what has that got to do with civil liberties, it's about self-preservation. do you want to die or be maimed for life, or see this happen, on a train or in a bar?
it is not for anyone to bring the middle east down to anything. they don't need anyone to run shit for them or tell them what to do. this is partly what started this whole mess in the first place.
oh cosign no doubt.
we need to work out this crazy oil dependency with some renewable resources domestically & let the shieks carry on with their stonings & beheadings in peace...
good idea. and the US could be left in peace to continue building factory jails and appointing folks to government who agree with killing abortion doctors, segregation and lynchings.
we can all get along if we're left to our own filth.
what you speak is a portion of the truth, but I still find it hard to take Canadian handwringing anti-American-ism seriously...
it's kinda like, "really? when did y'all ever do anything?"
... if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
yes, we live in a free society - hurray for the police state!
i am missing your point? everyone in London knows there are human bombs on the loose waiting to kill as many people as they can take down with them, and the people doing the shouting are friends of the person because you cannot leave a bag unattended anywhere in London as it could be a bomb. what has that got to do with civil liberties, it's about self-preservation. do you want to die or be maimed for life, or see this happen, on a train or in a bar?
i feel for all my UK brethren. i can only imagine how difficult daily living is these days...
Sorry folks, I have a hard time feeling sorry for a terrorist who caught one. Honestly, fuck him. The only thing the cops should have done differently is kick him in the nads first and then shoot him. The life of this type of person means jack shit to me. If you think its cute to try and destroy average folks riding the subway with a goddam bomb... well.... fuck him.
The odd thing is that he was an asian dude...... I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.... Each of the articles make sure to point it out, but then don't go any further with it. Interesting.
Him being Asian is fairly irrelevant. Richard Reid was the sneaker bomber dude who caught a bad one. He looked like he should record an LP with Nilsson in the 60s.
Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims in the world.
For those in the UK, be safe and hopes and prayers got out to you. Peace T.N.
Comments
People have been butchering & exploiting each other for eons - I wouldn't bet on it changing, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try I suppose.
Killing can really only be justified from a selfish perpective - 'him or me', in a universal sense all lives have equal value, but I won't pretend that I don't think my own life is worth alot more & by extension & proximity the lives of my family, friends, fellow citizens etc.
not to get all 'vitamin' in here, but I really think there is a war going on - these dudes tried to kill me by dropping a building on me!
we just need to be smarter about this.
---
ok now THAT sucks...my statement above still stands though...I would HATE to be the dude with his gun drawn and you have about .5 seconds to make that decision. I would do it regardless, and the 5 shots probably would have come out of my gun as well...nerves are a motherfucker.
right now all we know is that he was wearing a jacket they thought was too bulky for the summer and that he "was challenged" (??). let's wait and see if he was actually what he was thought to be. i know this sounds sick, but i hope he was a bomber** and not some dude who had to wear all his belongings like homeless folks have to do or that he wasn't holding a big teddy bear under there as a surprise for someone. he's already been judged and executed, i know, but let's just wait for confirmation before writing off a life.
**even though once detained, there would be more to gain by having him alive than dead.
The guy not only ignored police he actually ran away after being challenged by armed officers. Not the action of a fare dodger. Reports are now suggesting that he was already being followed by plains clothes officers.
Fucked up, for sure, but I'm not sure how else police could have acted given the context of the last two weeks.
that's true, and like I said...I'd hate to be the cop in that situation.
this is futile, but i'll say it anyway, and your dudes have been trying to kill them by dropping bombs on them before those buildings fell.
i think you and i basically agree with each other, i'm more interested in common points this morning, not opposing ones, you know?
"my dudes"?!? ( very controversial...)
you an american? "not in my name" etc.
I think the best way to destroy jihadism is to bring the middle east down to our level with coca cola, internet porn & scarlett johansson.
whether that is a postive thing is another issue.
---
The assumption here is that your average Joe becomes a Special (Armed) Officer overnight. As to how would I handle things? Fuck knows... but then I wouldn't be in that situation cos I'm not[/b] a Special Officer and have not[/b] had the years of training.
Also, your last comment seems to have the suspect's guilt pretty much decided.
Perversly, I hope that he is guilty of something pretty serious, otherwise this could be one almighty fuck up.
i said "your dudes" to differentiate from the dudes that dropped a building on you.
i am not american.
it is not for anyone to bring the middle east down to anything. they don't need anyone to run shit for them or tell them what to do. this is partly what started this whole mess in the first place.
She lives in America. The portion of North America above the 49th parallel.
Of America, K..
yes, this is surely among history's greatest horrors...
---
i live in the uk and just got back from London, i don't contribute much and only joined recently and enjoy your posts very much. i don't want to get off on a bad foot with any you people but I would like to say... these guys are ready to die for their cause. they are on cctv and are all over the media. they are either going to be caught or killed. so they have likely chosen to take their original route and die for their cause. the guy was chased into the station by armed police, vaulted the barrier and ran onto the train where he was shot in the upper part of his body. this was to stop him trying to detonate what looked like a bomb strapped round his waist with wires hanging out. if he was allowed a few more seconds he could have blown himself, the train, the passengers and the cops chasing him into the next life. what would you do? moralising and conspiracy theories are all very well, but when your life goes before your eyes and you are trained to deal with these situations you make a judgement of risk and you do not take chances. all the guy had to do was stop and put his arms up, he was surrounded by armed police, he had no intention of doing that, he was ready to die and take everyone with him. the causes behind this situation are another bigger argument and we all know some of the reasons why this is happening, and that needs to be addressed big time, but this was a split second life or death scenario on the london underground. you fuck about on the tube at this time, you are in deep deep shit, everyone knows that, there are at least 3 more human bombs on the loose in London right now and they could strike anywhere. if the guy wasn't a terrorist he must have been completely stupid to know what would happen in those circumstances. people are getting shouted at for leaving a bag on a table when going to the toilet in a bar, everyone know's the score.
next post will be music related! ;-)
best wishes -P
Canamerica?
It's all the same now anyways.. We are all connected by underground tunnels.
Cheap cigarettes & Booze in, BC weed out...
I cannot in any way find anything agreeable in what these people are doing in the name of Islam, but by the same token, I cannot ignore that fact that there are some very very wrong and unjust things going on in this world under the banner of "Good", and it is these situations that provides the fuel that powers the radicalizing forces on all sides of this conflict.
The more people of who are ignorant of this fact, the more dire the situation, in my opinion anyway.
yes. ok. i am same sex marriage/smoke pot in the streets/we club baby seals american, not blue hawaiian punch/we gave ellen degeneres a show/CBGB'S american.
thanx for the sanity of your post and welcome
pick your side.
A perfect summary. Maybe with all the "Londoners will not be bowed" headlines people around the world think otherwise but here in London we're all on high alert. You see a bag left unattended, you do not make the assumption that someone's just mislaid it. People do not fuck around in London when it comes to security at the moment - if a policeman says stop, you'd better be prepared for consequences if you choose to ignore them.
oh cosign no doubt.
we need to work out this crazy oil dependency with some renewable resources domestically & let the shieks carry on with their stonings & beheadings in peace...
I'll resist taking a predictable anti-canuck potshot.
---
yes, we live in a free society - hurray for the police state!
good idea. and the US could be left in peace to continue building factory jails and appointing folks to government who agree with killing abortion doctors, segregation and lynchings.
we can all get along if we're left to our own filth.
i am missing your point? everyone in London knows there are human bombs on the loose waiting to kill as many people as they can take down with them, and the people doing the shouting are friends of the person because you cannot leave a bag unattended anywhere in London as it could be a bomb. what has that got to do with civil liberties, it's about self-preservation. do you want to die or be maimed for life, or see this happen, on a train or in a bar?
what you speak is a portion of the truth, but I still find it hard to take Canadian handwringing anti-American-ism seriously...
it's kinda like, "really? when did y'all ever do anything?"
"Canada: we mind our own business"
---
i feel for all my UK brethren. i can only imagine how difficult daily living is these days...
The odd thing is that he was an asian dude...... I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.... Each of the articles make sure to point it out, but then don't go any further with it. Interesting.
Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims in the world.
For those in the UK, be safe and hopes and prayers got out to you.
Peace
T.N.