Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21there seems to have been a confluence of things happening (for a number of people) at Motown during the last few years of the '60s before it all blew up in the summer of 1970 b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21This probably sums it up. My feelings anyway. It was a great happening at the end of it all.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
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Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Motown became formulaic until Marvin rebelled. Stevie benefitted from Marvin's fight.b, 21b, 21Stevie stretched the sonic boundaries of R&B.b, 21b, 21Marvin created the "first" R&B concept album.b, 21b, 21Smokey had carte blanche to work within Gordy's system and set up the foundation for Stevie & Marvin to progress. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21With the exception of point #3, I'd argue that Norman Whitfield beat all of them to the punch. Not an artist in the strictest sense of the word, of course, but if there was anyone at Motown consistently bucking the formula and stretching sonic boundaries before him, I'd like to know who that was. Colossal talents as they are, Marvin, Stevie and Smokey all owe him to one extent or the other.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21I'd argue that Norman Whitfield beat all of them to the punch.b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I think you're right, but the difference is that as much as I love (LOVE) Whitfields production and songwriting, it does have more of an exploito vibe IMO. "Throw some wah-wah on that shit, that's what the kids want" VS. "wow, this clavinet is perfect for this idea I got for a song". The same goes for the lyrics. The words to "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" et al are classic but it doesn't hit me as hard on a personal level as, say, a song like "Big Brother" or "Flying High (In The Friendly Sky)".
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21I'd argue that Norman Whitfield beat all of them to the punch.b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I think you're right, but the difference is that as much as I love (LOVE) Whitfields production and songwriting, it does have more of an exploito vibe IMO. "Throw some wah-wah on that shit, that's what the kids want" b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21That's exactly what I've been saying! b, 21b, 21These are the Temptations we're talking about here, not the Chambers Brothers.b, 21b, 21Maybe if the Tempts had played on or written those songs themselves, then I'd put them in the Marvin/Stevie category, but no, those were all Whitfield concepts...the Tempts were just a post-doowop group who went through their psychedelic "phase." And then they went back to their matching suits and their love songs. The hippies didn't change them THAT much.b, 21b, 21Not that there's anything wrong with that, just sayin'.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Stevie - Best instrumentalist, most innovative and adventurous musically, great song writer.b, 21b, 21Marvin - At his best he is by far the most personal. Great songwriter and singer, played drums on lots of early sessions.b, 21b, 21Smoky - Greatest pop lyricist (Ever?). Soaring melodies. Fabulous producer, arranger for others. b, 21b, 21But what about HDH? Are any of the above better songwriters? b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I'd say they're about equal, songwriting-wise.b, 21b, 21Do you think Holland-Dozier-Holland were better singers?b, 21b, 21I just have a few scattered singles by various combinations of the three, but Lamont Dozier's "Fish Ain't Bitin'" is just a classic record all around...and Eddie Holland could do a killer Jackie Wilson imitation, if you've ever heard "Jamie." b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21I don't know if HDH were better singers, but they were never better performers/artists.b, 21b, 21When did they walk out on Gordy? About the same time Marvin and Stevie were rebelling. b, 21b, 21I heard them saying they couldn't complain about what Gordy was paying them because it was millions, but if they had received their royalties [which they now have I think] it would have been millions more.
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